5th year option on Allen or bid on Watson in FA in 22

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I never have and I never will. 

I'd rather be the guy who thinks Allen will end up better than Watson and occasionally bets against the Bills

 

than the guy who never bets against the Bills and would rather pay Watson $40M than Allen $30M 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I'd rather be the guy who thinks Allen will end up better than Watson and occasionally bets against the Bills

 

than the guy who never bets against the Bills and would rather pay Watson $40M than Allen $30M 

 

Well each to their own but I think that is bat ***** crazy. 

[Cal]

Allen for sure

[Patrick Duffy]

Well this thread turned interesting......

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Well this thread turned interesting......

That tends to happen when @GoBills808 shows up. ?

[dlonce]

6 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

Well apparently COVID can cause hallucinations and even brain damage, so I get where you're coming from!  ?

 

Watson will NOT be available.

 

You are likely joking but what you just stated is true. I have a family member that had Covid 19 that caused brain inflammation.

Hallucinations were part of it and Watson wasn’t one of them.

 

Thank God she is getting better. She did tell me the Bills are going to the AFC championship though.( She’s a huge Bills fan)

 

lost a few weeks of her life. Was shocked to find out Brady went to Tampa.

All true.

Edited April 4, 2020 by dlonce

[Kaenon]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

COVID had me thinking. With all the trade rumors and twitter posts about Watson in Houston, I have a gut feeling he would rather see FA than re sign there (but who knows I guess). The Texans would be foolish to not take the 5th year option.

 

If he hits FA in 2 years, would you rather get into a bidding war and pay him $40M per (guessing 2022 value) or keep moving forward with Allen, taking his 5th year option, to an eventual extension?

I don't post often anymore at all... But... What?!?

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Allen. All day. 

 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well each to their own but I think that is bat ***** crazy. 

Because your allegiance is to your team, so you would rather upgrade the position (in your opinion) for the Buffalo Bills. Where as his allegiance is to Josh Allen, regardless of possibly (or not in his opinion) upgrading the position. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Got to be kidding.  Probably won't even have a season this year and the worry is about 2022?

[BuffaloBills1998]

Is this an April fools joke?

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree. A risk of Watson walking is the thing that WILL get Billy O fired. 

I think if the Texans don’t do anything this season he will probably be fired altogether 

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why would you take heat for stating the obvious that Watson is now and will always be a better qb than Josh? And that preference is not a slight on Allen who I think is going to be a good qb. As with you I consider Mahomes as the best qb with the advantage of youth over Wilson. I have a high regard for Russell Wilson but would take Watson over him because he is a younger qb.

 

The Bills had the opportunity to draft either Mahomes or Watson a couple of years ago. They didn't seize on that opportunity. It was a mistake.  

This is the part that I take issue with....not that Watson is not better now (he is) but that a very raw QB from a small school cannot match or even surpass DW before it is all said and done.

 

He most certainly can

[Buffalo716]

11 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Exactly. If he takes another jump this year , I'm all in with Allen. He handles himself like a franchise QB off the field like he should, very impressive, and his leadership is great.

 

That'd be my test results , without the cocaine

Who released my results?!? 

 

Wtf I don't want anybody thinking I smoke pot

11 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, your tests came back positive??

 

Who released my results?!? 

 

Wtf I don't want anybody thinking I smoke pot

Edited April 4, 2020 by Buffalo716

[MJS]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why would you take heat for stating the obvious that Watson is now and will always be a better qb than Josh? And that preference is not a slight on Allen who I think is going to be a good qb. As with you I consider Mahomes as the best qb with the advantage of youth over Wilson. I have a high regard for Russell Wilson but would take Watson over him because he is a younger qb.

 

The Bills had the opportunity to draft either Mahomes or Watson a couple of years ago. They didn't seize on that opportunity. It was a mistake.  

There's no saying what the future holds. I'm not confident enough to declare that Allen will never be as good as Watson or any other QB, nor should anyone else be. Just have to see how things go over the next couple of years.

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

There's no saying what the future holds. I'm not confident enough to declare that Allen will never be as good as Watson or any other QB, nor should anyone else be. Just have to see how things go over the next couple of years.

Watson is overrated, watch his stats fall without DeAndre by his side 

[ChattanoogaBills]

I was ultra high on Watson coming out of college. Most of this board was saying DW was a one read and run QB. I also heard the board saying Russell Wilson was just a game manager at that same time.

 

However now DW is no where near as good (but he is very good) as i thought he would be in the NFL. I've watched McDermott's defense basically shut him down two seasons in a row.

So my answer is Josh freaking Allen all day everyday and twice on sunday. Hands Down

 

[Hampton Josh fan]

14 hours ago, Billl said:

Not sure you want to use playoff winning percentage and injury history to argue for Josh.  

 

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/josh-allen/9962

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/deshaun-watson/7744

Don't want to get into a back and forth on this hypothetical thread, but what criteria would you use to give a max ,free agent QB contract to Watson as opposed to extending a winning young QB who loves being a Bill.

[Hampton Josh fan]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I will tie my wagon to him. And I have zero hesitation doing so. He will be fine without Hopkins. Hop is a top talent but so is Deshaun Watson. 

 

EDIT: and I like where Josh is at for the most part. It isn't a dig at him at all. The only two QBs in the league I wouldn't swap for Watson are Mahomes and Wilson.

He will be fine without Hopkins? Why is his agent trying get him out of Houston and Bill O'Brien fired. Would you bet your car that Watson leads the Texans to a better record than last year. Hopkins made White look pedestrian in leading Houston to victory in the playoff game. Look at his stats in the 4th qtr of that game. How many guys not named Julio Jones, does that? Just give Allen one year with legit receivers and Dabol the confidence to open up the offense in the 2nd half of games and rational fans will not be looking to dump a freak athlete who wants to be here.

[Orlando Tim]

I agree up to this point Watson has been better than Josh but I think in the next 10 years Josh will be the better QB due to be a better athlete and having better coaching, not to mention a better team around him. I doubt he catches Mahomes or Wilson but I would not be surprised if he is  right behind them.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

He will be fine without Hopkins? Why is his agent trying get him out of Houston and Bill O'Brien fired. Would you bet your car that Watson leads the Texans to a better record than last year. Hopkins made White look pedestrian in leading Houston to victory in the playoff game. Look at his stats in the 4th qtr of that game. How many guys not named Julio Jones, does that? Just give Allen one year with legit receivers and Dabol the confidence to open up the offense in the 2nd half of games and rational fans will not be looking to dump a freak athlete who wants to be here.

 

No I think the Texans will have a worse record. But actually my reason for that is their defense not their offense. Their secondary is among the worst in the NFL, they have lost two of their best front 7 players in consecutive offseasons (Reader and Clowney) and JJ Watt great as he has been is 31 and has played more than 8 games once in 4 seasons. Last year they were 19th in points against and bottom 5 in yards. Their defensive personnel as of today is worse than it was last year, hard to see that getting better. I don't deny the greatness of DeAndre Hopkins but his production was down last year and they still have some decent receivers. And I just think Watson is really good. I don't think he was made good by Hopkins. I think he is good. The kid has some special in him. The play the put the dagger in the Bills in the playoffs was a play to Taiwan Jones (once a Bill, then a Texan, now a Bill again) a special teamer who barely plays on offense. It was a play made by Watson. He isn't a guy who can only produce with the elite. I think the Texans finish somewhere around .500 and move on from Bill O'Brien after this season. But I don't think their inferior win-loss record will be attributable to any discernible decline in Watson's play.

 

As for rational fans wanting to dump Allen..... I am a rational fan. I don't want to dump Allen. All I did was answer the question posed by the OP honestly. As usual when that is anything other than glowing about Josh what comes back is a torrent of accusations of being a hater, or wanting to dump him or the quite frankly ludicrous assertion that if I think that I should wager money on Allen under producing. It is possible to be a Bills fan, to like where Josh is and to still think there are other guys you would take ahead of him. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

[Doc]

Watson will definitely miss Hopkins.  He was far and away their best receiver.  Neither Fuller nor Stills is a #1 WR and Fuller can't stay healthy.  And they have no 1st rounder and their 2-2nd rounders only get them to the 21st pick.

 

BOB will be fired mid-season.

[Hampton Josh fan]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I agree up to this point Watson has been better than Josh but I think in the next 10 years Josh will be the better QB due to be a better athlete and having better coaching, not to mention a better team around him. I doubt he catches Mahomes or Wilson but I would not be surprised if he is  right behind them.

Good take. Wilson and Mahomes are the gold standard. 

[Hampton Josh fan]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I think the Texans will have a worse record. But actually my reason for that is their defense not their offense. Their secondary is among the worst in the NFL, they have lost two of their best front 7 players in consecutive offseasons (Reader and Clowney) and JJ Watt great as he has been is 31 and has played more than 8 games once in 4 seasons. Last year they were 19th in points against and bottom 5 in yards. Their defensive personnel as of today is worse than it was last year, hard to see that getting better. I don't deny the greatness of DeAndre Hopkins but his production was down last year and they still have some decent receivers. And I just think Watson is really good. I don't think he was made good by Hopkins. I think he is good. The kid has some special in him. The play the put the dagger in the Bills in the playoffs was a play to Taiwan Jones (once a Bill, then a Texan, now a Bill again) a special teamer who barely plays on offense. It was a play made by Watson. He isn't a guy who can only produce with the elite. I think the Texans finish somewhere around .500 and move on from Bill O'Brien after this season. But I don't think their inferior win-loss record will be attributable to any discernible decline in Watson's play.

 

As for rational fans wanting to dump Allen..... I am a rational fan. I don't want to dump Allen. All I did was answer the question posed by the OP honestly. As usual when that is anything other than glowing about Josh what comes back is a torrent of accusations of being a hater, or wanting to dump him or the quite frankly ludicrous assertion that if I think that I should wager money on Allen under producing. It is possible to be a Bills fan, to like where Josh is and to still think there are other guys you would take ahead of him. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

Your response is well taken and reasonable. My problem, as a JA fan, is more with a thread that is disrespectful to a young developing QB, who is making progress and shouldn't have to see people in a great fan base ,questioning his viability going forward. This guy takes responsibility for every loss and will leave his body on the field to get this team a win. You can see his teammates respect and he loves being in Buffalo. No disrespect meant towards Watson, but JA should be given a season with good receivers, especially a legit #1, before reaching for Watson. JA has been as good or better than the other QBs drafted before him in his draft. 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Don't want to get into a back and forth on this hypothetical thread, but what criteria would you use to give a max ,free agent QB contract to Watson as opposed to extending a winning young QB who loves being a Bill.

Because Watson has been categorically better at everything, and they’re about the same age.  It’s not a swipe at Allen to say that Watson is an elite young QB.  Everyone hopes that Allen can someday have a season with 4,000 yards passing, 68% completions with 26 TDs and 10 INTs while still putting up the same numbers rushing.  Watson has been that each of the past 2 seasons.  If he takes another step forward, you’re looking at 30+ TDs and 4500 yards passing.

 

Watson is probably the second player taken if you were to have an expansion draft involving every player in the NFL.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Because Watson has been categorically better at everything, and they’re about the same age.  It’s not a swipe at Allen to say that Watson is an elite young QB.  Everyone hopes that Allen can someday have a season with 4,000 yards passing, 68% completions with 26 TDs and 10 INTs while still putting up the same numbers rushing.  Watson has been that each of the past 2 seasons.  If he takes another step forward, you’re looking at 30+ TDs and 4500 yards passing.

 

Watson is probably the second player taken if you were to have an expansion draft involving every player in the NFL.

 

Watson is 8 months older and has been in the league an extra year.  Not really the "same age."  And their situations on offense have been different.  Until now.  I'm curious to see Watson without Hopkins, and likewise, seeing Josh with Diggs added.

[NoSaint]

22 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Your response is well taken and reasonable. My problem, as a JA fan, is more with a thread that is disrespectful to a young developing QB, who is making progress and shouldn't have to see people in a great fan base ,questioning his viability going forward. This guy takes responsibility for every loss and will leave his body on the field to get this team a win. You can see his teammates respect and he loves being in Buffalo. No disrespect meant towards Watson, but JA should be given a season with good receivers, especially a legit #1, before reaching for Watson. JA has been as good or better than the other QBs drafted before him in his draft. 

Jesus... it’s disrespectful and he shouldn’t have to see people question his future?!?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Watson is 8 months older and has been in the league an extra year.  Not really the "same age."  And their situations on offense have been different.  Until now.  I'm curious to see Watson without Hopkins, and likewise, seeing Josh with Diggs added.

 

Can we just have a guarantee from folk that if Watson performs similarly again to his last two seasons they will accept that he is just good rather than trying to make excuses as to why he is good?

[Hampton Josh fan]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Because Watson has been categorically better at everything, and they’re about the same age.  It’s not a swipe at Allen to say that Watson is an elite young QB.  Everyone hopes that Allen can someday have a season with 4,000 yards passing, 68% completions with 26 TDs and 10 INTs while still putting up the same numbers rushing.  Watson has been that each of the past 2 seasons.  If he takes another step forward, you’re looking at 30+ TDs and 4500 yards passing.

 

Watson is probably the second player taken if you were to have an expansion draft involving every player in the NFL.

Then there's the matter of 35million a year on a guy that won't win you more games than the guy you have at substantially less. Why are you confident that JA doesn't take a huge step forward with a better supporting cast. Listen, you're a fan of Watson, god bless. 

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Jesus... it’s disrespectful and he shouldn’t have to see people question his future?!?

I forgot, the persecuted, woe is me Bills fan, has a mandate to think every promising young player will crap the bed eventually. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Then there's the matter of 35million a year on a guy that won't win you more games than the guy you have at substantially less. Why are you confident that JA doesn't take a huge step forward with a better supporting cast. Listen, you're a fan of Watson, god bless. 

 

It isn't about being a fan of Watson it is about watching him play. As for the money.... I don't think even the OP was suggesting you move on from Josh while he is on a cheap rookie deal.

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

 

I forgot, the persecuted, woe is me Bills fan, has a mandate to think every promising young player will crap the bed eventually. 

wait, you are saying the OTHER people are the persecuted while playing the woah is josh card?

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Can we just have a guarantee from folk that if Watson performs similarly again to his last two seasons they will accept that he is just good rather than trying to make excuses as to why he is good?

 

No one is saying that Watson isn't a good QB or currently isn't better than Josh.  But I'd be very surprised if he duplicates his last 2 (that is, when he was a full-season starter) seasons this year given the lack of weapons.  And that's no knock on him; every QB needs good players around him.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Doc

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No one is saying that Watson isn't a good QB or currently isn't better than Josh.  But I'd be very surprised if he duplicates his last 2 (that is, when he was a full-season starter) seasons this year given the lack of weapons.  And that's no knock on him; every QB needs good players around him.

 

I think he will be very close to those numbers again.

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

wait, you are saying the OTHER people are the persecuted while playing the woah is josh card?

No, just questioning why the guy who gets the team out of purgatory should all of a sudden be replaced by a guy retailing at 40 million a year and 45% of the cap. The optimum situation is sticking with the guy you drafted if you win with him.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

No, just questioning why the guy who gets the team out of purgatory should all of a sudden be replaced by a guy retailing at 40 million a year and 45% of the cap. The optimum situation is sticking with the guy you drafted if you win with him.

 

If Josh is as good as Watson he will cost that same number. That is what we should hope for. And it won't be 45% by 2022.

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Josh is as good as Watson he will cost that same number. That is what we should hope for. And it won't be 45% by 2022.

I'm sure Josh will make his money if he wins games and especially playoff games, but just my opinion, he would be more likely to give a team friendly deal in order to keep the team at a high level, like Brady

 

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No one is saying that Watson isn't a good QB or currently isn't better than Josh.  But I'd be very surprised if he duplicates his last 2 (that is, when he was a full-season starter) seasons this year given the lack of weapons.  And that's no knock on him; every QB needs good players around him.

 

BOB has outperformed my expectation a few times but if the team finally runs off the rails and players quit it would be about the only way I see a drastic change in Watson outside injury. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think he will be very close to those numbers again.

 

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

BOB has outperformed my expectation a few times but if the team finally runs off the rails and players quit it would be about the only way I see a drastic change in Watson outside injury. 

 

I just don't believe you can remove the lynch pin of the offense in Hopkins, who was a great player before Watson came aboard, and expect everything to be fine.  But I guess we'll find out in a few months.

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

Well apparently COVID can cause hallucinations and even brain damage, so I get where you're coming from!  ?

 

Watson will NOT be available.

Bill O’Brien. That’s the only thing that makes me pause.  You’re right though.  It’s incredibly unlikely that Watson would come available through FA.  But I could see another Clowney situation happening with Watson.  BOB is already poisoning that relationship.  If the Bills are built to win except that Allen hasn’t gotten to where he needs to be, then I’d be 100% on board with being aggressive and going and getting Watson (or any other top QB that might become available).  

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Holy ***** dude.

 

This is a sport. Don’t take this ***** so personal. 

OK, I understand diminishing my defending Josh response, but can you unequivocally tell me this young guy doesn't read every post on this board that question his ability, or Buffalo fans belief in him. Yea, it's only sport, but with all this time on everyone's hands, why not support a guy that gives his all. Your entitled to think it's frivolous, but I've bled internally with this team and finally I see some light.

[BarleyNY]

53 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

No, just questioning why the guy who gets the team out of purgatory should all of a sudden be replaced by a guy retailing at 40 million a year and 45% of the cap. The optimum situation is sticking with the guy you drafted if you win with him.

Some corrections:
- If there’s one guy who got the Bills out of purgatory, it is McDermott.

- Even if Watson were to get $40M/yr next season, that would still be less than 20% of the cap even in year 1.  That’s about what elite QBs will make.  Even middling QBs won’t be far behind at around $30M/yr.  

- Sure, the optimum situation is draft and keep an elite QB that you win Super Bowls with.  But it’d be really dumb to stick with a poor or middling QB just because you drafted him.  The next best situation is to find that elite QB some other way.  I don’t think anyone in New Orleans is upset that the Saints didn’t draft Brees.  Or anyone in Green Bay was pissed off that they didn’t draft Favre.

- Allen is only one season behind Watson in being due a new contract.  If he steps it up and becomes an elite QB, then he’s also going to get that $40M/yr deal.  I hope he does prove himself worthy of that.  But if he doesn’t, I’d rather the Bills have a different elite QB that they have to pay rather than a middling one that they have to pay almost as much.