Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 54 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Zay Jones [added since you mention Mc with Beane] Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isaiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quinton Spain Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nsekhe JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO I think part of the perception is if we go back to 2017 or 2018, we can debate the focus. For discussion purposes, I redlined the "misses". I'd also like to note that there are a pile of other players who were added on OL or at WR/RB in 2017/2018 who did NOT "pan out" who you don't list. Even Beane acknowledges he had certain limitations under the cap, but could have done more to improve the offense, and it was a mistake. Almost all the successful or at least value-added additions you list above came only in the last off season - McBeane's third year. It's almost as though they really weren't paying attention until last year, which is incredibly strange given that they had just spent immense draft resources on a "project" QB who was clearly going to need a solid OL and run game to succeed as well as quality receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steptide said: The thing that's always surprised me is that McDermott always credits Andy Reid as being a big influence/mentor to him, yet for 3 seasons we've seen a lack of focus on the offense. This upcoming draft really needs to focus on the offense. We need 2 more solid recievers that will be a part of this team for 5 years or longer. I think we're ok at tight end. Get some depth at o line in the later rounds and I think we'll be in pretty good shape for 2020 Wait, what? Last year the entire offensive like except left tackle was replaced. Devin Singletary was drafted . Tyler Kroft was signed. Dawson Knox was drafted. Beasley and Brown were signed. Gore was brought in. How is that not concentrating on the offense? That’s a total rebuild! 13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: All off the Discount bin (except JA)!!!! that statement is 100% incorrect. Edited January 29, 2020 by todd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Again 24th is not slightly below, it is BELOW AVERAGE I was being kind... that is why I posted what I did, about this off season being the time to get the offense to above average... would have thought that was pretty darn obvious from what I wrote, no? Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, todd said: Wait, what? Last year the entire offensive like except left tackle was replaced. Devin Singletary was drafted . Tyler Kroft was signed. Dawson Knox was drafted. Beasley and Brown were signed. Gore was brought in. How is that not concentrating on the offense? That’s a total rebuild! that statement is 100% incorrect. No doubt you are correct - there was a huge concentration on the offense last year - especially in the Free Agent market. I see the draft & the free agent market as separate animals -- the free agent market needs to be used for filling specific positional needs - as it was properly used to flesh out our offensive line last year (in addition to signing a couple wide receivers). However, the draft must use the concept of taking the "best player available" at whatever multiple positions of need that the team has at the time. Excessive reaching for guys lower on your draft board leads to a higher risk of drafting "busts". For example - the Bills may head into the draft with priority needs at WR & Outside pass rush (pending FA signings) - in this case, if the best player on our board is a pass rushing DE - we must take him over a lower rated WR prospect (despite the huge outcry of those who might demand a WR, "no matter what"). Please Bills - do not reach for players in the draft - take the best football players available when we are at the podium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Greg can make my life easier by retiring, the guy was brutal this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: McDermotts been here 3 seasons.... he took one of the better scoring offenses in the league and made them awful. Theyve been bad on the offensive side of the ball. I question they know what they are doing on that side of the ball. It's a reasonable correction to say McBeane didn't turn our bottom-dwelling offense to an average offense, it's still below average. It's also a reasonable correction to say that McBeane didn't take a "better scoring" offense and make it awful - he took a just above average offense (10 or 12 where average is 15-16) and made them mediocre, then awful, now mediocre again. I share questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quniton Span Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nesheke JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO This list doesn't mean what you think it means. Shaq and Hughes are the only holdovers on defense from the previous regime so the turnover there has been near complete as well. The DIFFERENCE has been the quality of investment. 4 first round picks made...........3 of them on defense. They haven't put much into the offense yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Greg S said: I actually hope they can strengthen the O-Line and not just add depth. To many times last year Allen was running for his life. I want to see the Bills have an O-Line like the 49'ers, Chiefs, Ravens. Having a strong OL that can dominate. Think of what that will do not only for JA but DS as well. I also agree that we need to bring in another weapon at WR to go with what we have but improving the OL is the #1 priority from me on that side of the ball. On the defense I want to see us get better at getting to the QB. Get to work Beane. Agreed. I know it's on all teams wish list but we need Big Men who are athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 35 minutes ago, todd said: Wait, what? Last year the entire offensive like except left tackle was replaced. Devin Singletary was drafted . Tyler Kroft was signed. Dawson Knox was drafted. Beasley and Brown were signed. Gore was brought in. How is that not concentrating on the offense? That’s a total rebuild! that statement is 100% incorrect. Who at a skill position did they pay? Beasley & Brown are combined paid less then Watkins, Singletary appears to be a good find in the draft, but generally they go for below average/average options at best. The big names & $'s to get them are always just talk. Heck McD already has explained that the cap space he'd spend on players already here. While not from Missouri I am a "Show Me" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, eball said: Terrible column. Rosenthal takes two not-so-veiled shots at Allen while supposedly writing about how the Bills can win a Super Bowl. Calls him a "poor man's Cam Newton" and makes some other comment that gives insight into his opinion that Allen isn't any good. I wish I hadn't clicked because I feel dumber for having done so. "Poor man's Cam Newton" isn't a suggestion that he's bad. It's a suggestion that his game resembles Newton's -- which it does -- and that he's not as good as prime-era Newton. Which is also undeniably true. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, dave mcbride said: "Poor man's Cam Newton" isn't a suggestion that he's bad. It's a suggestion that his game resembles Newton's -- which it does -- and that he's not as good as prime-era Newton. Which is also undeniably true. Nah, it was a dig. We can agree to disagree, and I don't scour the internet looking for reasons to be outraged. I think Rosenthal pretty clearly doesn't like Allen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: This list doesn't mean what you think it means. Shaq and Hughes are the only holdovers on defense from the previous regime so the turnover there has been near complete as well. The DIFFERENCE has been the quality of investment. 4 first round picks made...........3 of them on defense. They haven't put much into the offense yet. Ah ok. Misunderstood your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Virgil said: I absolutely think Miami will need to move up to 3 for Tua. The top 2 picks are locks and the Giants won’t trade out. That leaves the #3 pick with Detroit as the hot pick. Everyone knows Miami wants Tua and that’s the spot to jump to in order to get him. I see Carolina as the biggest competition to move up for him. Whoa! I think it would be crazy for Detroit to miss out on Chase Young (should be 2) or Okudah at 3. That dude is a lockdown corner that could be the cornerstone for that defense. And especially drop down to 7. It would have to be overwhelming compensation to move off of him IMO. Now, I think the best/smartest play would be the NYG (even though you said they won't move) to be open to trading with the Chargers to jump over Miami for Tua AND/OR FORCE Miami to trade up 1 spot for your spot. Either way, BOTH the chargers and dolphins WILL be drafting a QB. That leaves the Giants with the same target they would have gotten at 4, which is prob an offensive tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Bottom dwelling? The offense was never bottom dwelling the two years under Rex before McDermott got here. Perhaps "better scoring offenses" is a tiny exaggeration, but they were among the top 12 or so in points scored and have been mostly bottom of the league all 3 years since due to questionable personnel and coaching decisions . I was speaking of 2018 to 2019. Apologies for the lack of clarity. Sorry, but if 12 down from the top is a "tiny exaggeration" from "better scoring", then 22 or 24th (which is 8 or 10 from the bottom) really is not appropriate to describe as "bottom of the league". Be consistent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, hjnick said: Whoa! I think it would be crazy for Detroit to miss out on Chase Young (should be 2) or Okudah at 3. That dude is a lockdown corner that could be the cornerstone for that defense. And especially drop down to 7. It would have to be overwhelming compensation to move off of him IMO. Now, I think the best/smartest play would be the NYG (even though you said they won't move) to be open to trading with the Chargers to jump over Miami for Tua AND/OR FORCE Miami to trade up 1 spot for your spot. Either way, BOTH the chargers and dolphins WILL be drafting a QB. That leaves the Giants with the same target they would have gotten at 4, which is prob an offensive tackle. Think about it though. If they trade back to 5 with Miami, they will still probably get him. That’s the beauty of it for Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think part of the perception is if we go back to 2017 or 2018, we can debate the focus. For discussion purposes, I redlined the "misses". I'd also like to note that there are a pile of other players who were added on OL or at WR/RB in 2017/2018 who did NOT "pan out" who you don't list. Even Beane acknowledges he had certain limitations under the cap, but could have done more to improve the offense, and it was a mistake. Almost all the successful or at least value-added additions you list above came only in the last off season - McBeane's third year. It's almost as though they really weren't paying attention until last year, which is incredibly strange given that they had just spent immense draft resources on a "project" QB who was clearly going to need a solid OL and run game to succeed as well as quality receivers. Off-seasons 1 and 2 of McBeane were largely spent re-tooling the defense to fit the HC's needs. Year's 3 and hopefully 4 will both be offensive driven. Beane said they had cap limitations in year 2. But it didn't preclude them from adding Star, Murphy, and moving up to take Edmunds. That's a hefty investment on D and it led to an offensive unit that was scoring about 10 points per past mid-season. I think McD figured he could "win now" in 2017 by being strong defensively. And to a certain degree it worked. They went 9-7 to advance as a wild card. I contend the effort in years 1 and 2 going defense first cost them down the road when it was time to invest in a QB. Now, we're still talking about offensive weapons for that QB (cue the fans who said it couldn't be done in 2 years). Yet, SF and other teams were able to build up both sides of the ball in a similar time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Virgil said: Think about it though. If they trade back to 5 with Miami, they will still probably get him. That’s the beauty of it for Detroit. True. The only wildcard would be the Giants and if they covet the OT or the CB more. I don't know much about the OT, but that CB... he shut everyone down he played against, even 1st round talent that's going in this draft. On another note, 4 round draft simulation... does this look good?? Doubled up WR since waited to Rounds 3 and 4. 22 Mekhi Becton , OT Louisville 54 J.K. Dobbins , RB Ohio State 86 Denzel Mims , WR Baylor 118 Michael Pittman Jr. , WR USC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, eball said: Terrible column. Rosenthal takes two not-so-veiled shots at Allen while supposedly writing about how the Bills can win a Super Bowl. Calls him a "poor man's Cam Newton" and makes some other comment that gives insight into his opinion that Allen isn't any good. I wish I hadn't clicked because I feel dumber for having done so. I don't take anything serious Rosenthal writes. He is a huge Pats fan and never has anything good to say about the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Steptide said: The thing that's always surprised me is that McDermott always credits Andy Reid as being a big influence/mentor to him, yet for 3 seasons we've seen a lack of focus on the offense. This upcoming draft really needs to focus on the offense. We need 2 more solid recievers that will be a part of this team for 5 years or longer. I think we're ok at tight end. Get some depth at o line in the later rounds and I think we'll be in pretty good shape for 2020 just because a leader influenced you, doesn’t mean you do everything the same way. While yes Ried has done great things on one side of the ball, I’d say Sean has been quite good on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Steptide said: The thing that's always surprised me is that McDermott always credits Andy Reid as being a big influence/mentor to him, yet for 3 seasons we've seen a lack of focus on the offense. This upcoming draft really needs to focus on the offense. We need 2 more solid recievers that will be a part of this team for 5 years or longer. I think we're ok at tight end. Get some depth at o line in the later rounds and I think we'll be in pretty good shape for 2020 Reid has absolutely nothing to do with the defense...... stick with what you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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