The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Fauci was asked point blank, are you saying Americans should prepare for 100,000 people dying?

 

He said yes.

You’re still not getting this whole optimism vs pessimism thing, are you? Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. 
 

The more scared you are, the more likely you are to get sick. Remember to breathe. Mean that sincerely for the sake of your health as a fellow Bills fan.  

[jrober38]

Just now, dubs said:

well, you originally said it didn’t matter. It does and it did.  No one is perfect in this, including the president, but if you’re being honest with yourself, the China travel ban early in January absolutely helped. 
 

 

 

It helped.

 

Unfortunately they completely dropped the ball domestically on a variety of issues. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Fauci was asked point blank, are you saying 100,000 people will die?

 

He said yes.

Watch it again. He said “yes it could” happen, and then spent the next 10 minutes explaining why he is hopeful it will not happen. IOW, could, not will. 
 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Fauci was asked point blank, are you saying Americans should prepare for 100,000 people dying?

 

He said yes.

He said we should prepare for it. He did NOT say those projections were inevitable. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Trump restricted travel from China just 4 days after Italy completely banned it on Jan 31. What is this 6 weeks you’re referring to? Btw, the ban doesn’t  seem to have been effective for Italy either. Your Monday QBing is pure speculation and without significant merit. 

 

Right!!! Travel bans didn't do anything.

 

The issue is once you have it INSIDE your border, like Italy, Spain, the US, etc, it's too late.

 

At that point you either lock things down and start testing as many people as you can like South Korea did, or you're pretty much screwed. 

[dubs]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

It helped.

 

Unfortunately they completely dropped the ball domestically on a variety of issues. 

probably true. I mean, what do you expect. It’s a huge bureaucracy. dropping the ball is what governments do. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

It helped.

 

Unfortunately they completely dropped the ball domestically on a variety of issues. 

Sure it helped. If any ball was dropped , it was dropped at the State level. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

He said we should prepare for it. He did NOT say those projections were inevitable. 

 

What event over the next 4 weeks is going to improve their models?

 

With FULL MITIGATION they're saying 100,000 to 240,000 people are going to die based off their models.

 

What factor is going to improve that model? Are we just hoping their math is wrong? 

1 minute ago, dubs said:

probably true. I mean, what do you expect. It’s a huge bureaucracy. dropping the ball is what governments do. 

 

Totally agree.

 

Western Democratic societies have for the most part completely dropped the ball due to dragging their feet trying not to ruffle the economy's feathers. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Right!!! Travel bans didn't do anything.

 

The issue is once you have it INSIDE your border, like Italy, Spain, the US, etc, it's too late.

 

At that point you either lock things down and start testing as many people as you can like South Korea did, or you're pretty much screwed. 

Weren’t enough tests to do this; heck there still aren’t enough now. So easy to say this or that should have been done. Nowhere in the world has a medical system designed to handle this. It simply doesn’t exist. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sure it helped. If any ball was dropped , it was dropped at the State level. 

 

LMAO

 

Of course it was. 

The Federal Government, with their vastly superior resources compared to the state level was obviously not the problem.

 

Their messaging over the past 35 days has been great. From calling it a hoax, to saying that when there were 15 cases there would soon be 0, they did an awesome job. 

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Weren’t enough tests to do this; heck there still aren’t enough now. So easy to say this or that should have been done. Nowhere in the world has a medical system designed to handle this. It simply doesn’t exist. 

 

Ding ding ding!

 

Whose fault is the lack of tests?

 

Last I checked the White House rejected the WHO's test so that they could develop their own, which didn't work, and they wasted 4 weeks when they could have just used the one that worked and started mass producing it in late January. 

[dubs]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

What event over the next 4 weeks is going to improve their models?

 

With FULL MITIGATION they're saying 100,000 to 240,000 people are going to die based off their models.

 

What factor is going to improve that model? Are we just hoping their math is wrong? 

 

Totally agree.

 

Western Democratic societies have for the most part completely dropped the ball due to dragging their feet trying not to ruffle the economy's feathers. 

not quite true.  
 

I think there is an argument to be made that the biggest lesson in all of this is that individuals are way too dependent on government and living far too close to catastrophe.  The reasons range from over spending, too much debt and borrowing, not preparing, little to no savings, broken family structures, and more. 

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

Yes, somewhere in this thread I said de Blasio and Trump were similar in this.

 

If you did then good for you. However, I certainly haven't been reading posts from you that suggest you hold anyone other than Trump responsible.

 

My point is, if you want to spend your time casting blame, be my guest, just do it equally because if you feel one is to blame, then they are all to blame.

 

Me, I see no value in it. It serves no uesful purpose right now.

 

This administration has been no worse in responding to this than any other country and better than most. People are going to die here just like they are dying everywhere else - and just like they have under past epidemics. I believe this country will do all it can to keep that number as low as possible. I hope the end is not too far off.

 

We can debate "should haves" and "could haves" all you like at that point.

[Rob's House]

Now the open borders crowd is complaining that we didn't seal the border.

 

What a bunch of clowns.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

The Trump Virus could have been drastically mitigated if he listened to the people who were experts on the situation, if he shut his fat mouth, and if he didn't wait until the absolute last minute to act. Of course if he did any of those things, he wouldn't be the incompetent bumbling idiot we all know. He knew about this in January and did nothing. He's still mostly doing nothing.

The Trump virus?  He’s doing nothing?  What do you suggest he do?

[Buffalo_Gal]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

What event over the next 4 weeks is going to improve their models?

 

With FULL MITIGATION they're saying 100,000 to 240,000 people are going to die based off their models.

 

What factor is going to improve that model? Are we just hoping their math is wrong? 

 

If you watched, they were hopeful NY and NJ were the outliers, and Washington was what we will see happen. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

not quite true.  
 

I think there is an argument to be made that the biggest lesson in all of this is that individuals are way too dependent on government and living far too close to catastrophe.  The reasons range from over spending, too much debt and borrowing, not preparing, little to no savings, broken family structures, and more. 

 

I totally agree again.

 

The system is set up for this to be the average person's existence. 

 

People live pay cheque to pay cheque, are up to their eyeballs in debt, pay insane interest on their credit cards and ultimately spend way beyond their means. 

 

From individuals to corporations, everyone assumes the system will work... until it doesn't, and then everyone goes looking for a bailout. 

[SoCal Deek]

What many of you are missing is that in a country as big as the United States we have Chinese planes coming into multiple airports on both coasts. From there those people immediately fanned our all over our country in a matter of hours, not days! It’s not like Italy, which is smaller than California. The administration caught it WAY WAY early but it was already too late to avoid the trajectory. China is the real culprit here. The virus didn’t swim here. It boarded planes with their citizens. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

If you watched, they were hopeful NY and NJ were the outliers, and Washington was what we will see happen. 

 

I did watch.

 

They're hoping they're outliers.

 

Fauci knows they're not.

 

Fauci has been saying for weeks this is going to hit every corner of the country. 

 

NYC is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. It was always going to hit there fastest and hardest. The issue is that without domestic travel bans, people have left NYC and spread this all over the country. 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

LMAO

 

Of course it was. 

The Federal Government, with their vastly superior resources compared to the state level was obviously not the problem.

 

Their messaging over the past 35 days has been great. From calling it a hoax, to saying that when there were 15 cases there would soon be 0, they did an awesome job. 

 

Ding ding ding!

 

Whose fault is the lack of tests?

 

Last I checked the White House rejected the WHO's test so that they could develop their own, which didn't work, and they wasted 4 weeks when they could have just used the one that worked and started mass producing it in late January. 

Mass testing was the reason South Korea was able to stop this so effectively, despite the threat being much larger there and Seoul being a more populous and dense city than NYC. 

[GG]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I did watch.

 

They're hoping they're outliers.

 

Fauci knows they're not.

 

Fauci has been saying for weeks this is going to hit every corner of the country. 

 

NYC is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. It was always going to hit there fastest and hardest. The issue is that without domestic travel bans, people have left NYC and spread this all over the country. 

Is that when Diblasio was telling New Yorkers to go about their business and not worry about a thing?

[dubs]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I totally agree again.

 

The system is set up for this to be the average person's existence. 

 

People live pay cheque to pay cheque, are up to their eyeballs in debt, pay insane interest on their credit cards and ultimately spend way beyond their means. 

 

From individuals to corporations, everyone assumes the system will work... until it doesn't, and then everyone goes looking for a bailout. 

well, I don’t believe it’s the system. People make choices and it’s on them. We’ve all made bad choices, it’s easy to blame the system, but that system didn’t compel you to make those choices, you did. 
 

so buy a smaller home, a less expensive car, go to a less expensive college, save more, don’t get a pregnant unless you’re married and can afford it, don’t go on extravagant vacations so you can brag about it on social media, etc...

 

it’s not the system. Culture, perhaps, maybe even likely. But the system allows for the maximum freedom of choice, unless you’re suggesting freedom and choice are the problem. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by dubs

[jrober38]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Mass testing was the reason South Korea was able to stop this so effectively, despite the threat being much larger there and Seoul being a more populous and dense city than NYC. 

 

I 100% agree testing is the problem, and that falls entirely on the Federal Government. 

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, dubs said:

well, I don’t believe it’s the system. People make choices and it’s on them. We’ve all made bad choices, it’s easy to blame the system, but that system didn’t compel you to make those choices, you did. 
 

so buy a smaller home, a less expensive car, go to a less expensive college, save more, don’t get a pregnant unless you’re married and can afford it, don’t go on extravagant vacations so you can brag about it on social media, etc...

 

it’s not the system. Culture, perhaps, maybe even likely. But the system allows for the maximum freedom of choice.  

 

So how about all those corporations that need a $500B bailout after a couple weeks of reduced profits? How about the Mortage Lenders on the verge of bankruptcy due to margin calls on the Fed securities purchase? Maybe they should have skipped the avocado toast?

Compared to corporations, the most reckless everyday american should be considered austere.

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I 100% agree testing is the problem, and that falls entirely on the Federal Government. 

I know several people who likely have COVID-19 who will never be counted among the numbers, because our government has refused to allow them to be tested.

Edited April 1, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

I did watch.

 

They're hoping they're outliers.

 

Fauci knows they're not.

 

Fauci has been saying for weeks this is going to hit every corner of the country. 

 

NYC is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. It was always going to hit there fastest and hardest. The issue is that without domestic travel bans, people have left NYC and spread this all over the country. 

“Fauci knows they’re not.” So, you are a mind reader? 
 

I have said that I think we will all get it or develop an immunity (barring a vaccine), but I do not recall Dr Fauci ever being as doom and gloom as I am.

 

NYC (all big cities) need their public transportation systems sprayed down with Lysol if this thing really does live on metal. Otherwise, public transportation will continue to be a conduit for transmission.

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, dubs said:

well, I don’t believe it’s the system. People make choices and it’s on them. We’ve all made bad choices, it’s easy to blame the system, but that system didn’t compel you to make those choices, you did. 
 

so buy a smaller home, a less expensive car, go to a less expensive college, save more, don’t get a pregnant unless you’re married and can afford it, don’t go on extravagant vacations so you can brag about it on social media, etc...

 

it’s not the system. Culture, perhaps, maybe even likely. But the system allows for the maximum freedom of choice, unless you’re suggesting freedom and choice are the problem. 

 

Banks lend money to people who shouldn't have it.  People have credit cards who shouldn't have them. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the culture you're referencing has been mostly shaped by corporate America. 

Free will is at play, but most members of society have been moulded to predictably act and consume a certain way. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by jrober38

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

The cool thing is that you don't even need to "think" anything. It's not something you can have an opinion about - the facts as laid out are facts. If you have alternative evidence to claim the facts are a lie or disingenuous for some reason, I would love to hear them. The fact that you think I'm a democrat is adorable.

 

If you believe Trump inherited a roaring economy, you must clearly agree Trump made it look like a recession in comparison to what he did. Lowest unemployment for minorities in years, which is especially incredible considering how badly they were treated by the last president. Everyone was seeing their incomes rise, and everyone could find a good job if they wanted it.

 

Too bad Congress was so busy trying to impeach him that they wouldn't heed his warnings about the Virus.

 

Imagine how he shut down travel to China so early, and all the left could do was complain that he was a racist.

 

Do you ever wonder how much blood in on Pelosi's hands for this pandemic? I know I do.

 

I mean, you don't even need to 'think' anything to know this is true.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

“Fauci knows they’re not.” So, you are a mind reader? 
 

I have said that I think we will all get it or develop an immunity (barring a vaccine), but I do not recall Dr Fauci ever being as doom and gloom as I am.

 

NYC (all big cities) need their public transportation systems sprayed down with Lysol if this thing really does live on metal. Otherwise, public transportation will continue to be a conduit for transmission.

 

Lysol isn't actually the answer, because technically the virus isn't even alive. It's a protein protected by a layer of fat. That's why normal soap and water is so effective.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/23/coronavirus-isnt-alive-thats-why-its-so-hard-kill/

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

Free will is at play, but most members of society have been moulded to predictably act and consume a certain way. 

Only a Bills fan would spell it that way.

[keepthefaith]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

 

Last I checked the White House rejected the WHO's test so that they could develop their own, which didn't work, and they wasted 4 weeks when they could have just used the one that worked and started mass producing it in late January. 

 

I've heard others parrot this WHO test snub.  Who believes that the WHO at the outset of this thing had a reliable test developed, readily available, compatible with US testing methods that could be produced quickly in sufficient volumes for our population?  Not even South Korea who has been mentioned as a leader in testing used the WHO test.  They developed their own and quickly, compliments to them.  I can't find anything credible that the WHO could have provided a suitable test.

[billsfan1959]

I see this thread has been infected with its own virus... Fortunately, BullBuchanan and jrober38 just temporarily bring the collective IQ down to room temperature. They can't  cause any real lasting harm...

 

...unless they reproduce

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

If you believe Trump inherited a roaring economy, you must clearly agree Trump made it look like a recession in comparison to what he did. Lowest unemployment for minorities in years, which is especially incredible considering how badly they were treated by the last president. Everyone was seeing their incomes rise, and everyone could find a good job if they wanted it.

 

Too bad Congress was so busy trying to impeach him that they wouldn't heed his warnings about the Virus.

 

Imagine how he shut down travel to China so early, and all the left could do was complain that he was a racist.

 

Do you ever wonder how much blood in on Pelosi's hands for this pandemic? I know I do.

 

I mean, you don't even need to 'think' anything to know this is true.

 

He inherited all of that. Why are you refusing to acknowledge that I supplied the evidence of it?

Exactly what policies do you think he enacted that caused all of that? Stop and think for a second.

[IDBillzFan]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

 

He inherited all of that. Why are you refusing to acknowledge that I supplied the evidence of it?

Exactly what policies do you think he enacted that caused all of that? Stop and think for a second.

 

Yeah. Okay. He inherited a roaring economy from Obama. It just took two more years than Barry had!  And he did SO much for minorities! That's why they all came out to vote for HIllary! 

 

You're delusional. Obama was a racist embarrassment and we can only thank America for keeping the she-hag out of office to continue his incompetence.

 

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

So how about all those corporations that need a $500B bailout after a couple weeks of reduced profits? How about the Mortage Lenders ont he verge of bankruptcy due to margin calls on the Fed securities purchase? Maybe they should have skipped the avocado toast?

Compared to corporations, the most reckless everyday american should be considered austere.

I know several people who likely have COVID-19 who will never be counted among the numbers, because our government has refused to allow them to be tested.

A couple of weeks?  The big airline and hotel industries will be hit hard for at least a year for something that isn't their fault.  You're preventing massive layoffs by bailing them out and possibly preventing a great depression.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

16 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

LMAO

 

Of course it was. 

The Federal Government, with their vastly superior resources compared to the state level was obviously not the problem.

 

Their messaging over the past 35 days has been great. From calling it a hoax, to saying that when there were 15 cases there would soon be 0, they did an awesome job. 

 

Ding ding ding!

 

Whose fault is the lack of tests?

 

Last I checked the White House rejected the WHO's test so that they could develop their own, which didn't work, and they wasted 4 weeks when they could have just used the one that worked and started mass producing it in late January. 

You cannot be this naive.  The State of NY has the budget and infrastructure of a small country.  It has some of the finest hospitals and doctors in the world, two experienced senators with insider access to international AND domestic intel as to what was coming based on your criteria and the world as you see it.  Meanwhile, they’ve been spoon feeding you for 4 years that President Trump is an ignoramus and that they alone can save you.  Your boy Cuomo badly mishandled the crisis for the people he’s responsible to protect, your boy Schumer has gone radio silent and Gilibrand has gone to ground to protect herself.  I know this, again, using the criteria you’ve set for sitting in judgement of the crisis, because it’s also an international travel hub and they allowed the near unrestricted travel of carriers to/from and in/around nyc allowing the virus to get a major foothold in this  country. 
 

if you’re going to run about like Chicken Little, dig into the whole experience and whine about all the players, most especially those responsible for NY. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

A couple of weeks?  The big airline and hotel industries will be hit hard for at least a year for something that isn't their fault.  You're preventing massive layoffs by bailing them out and possibly preventing a great depression.

They were already saying they were on the verge of bankruptcy after a couple weeks. After a couple of weeks millions of people were already laid off across the nation. Corporations had no rainy day fund but we expect it of people scraping by on poverty wages? Come on, man.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

A couple of weeks?  The big airline and hotel industries will be hit hard for at least a year for something that isn't their fault.  You're preventing massive layoffs by bailing them out and possibly preventing a great depression.

 

Hotels, restaurants and airlines are for the most part going to go out of business. 

 

I can't see them passing a bailout package big enough to help those sectors. 

[dubs]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

So how about all those corporations that need a $500B bailout after a couple weeks of reduced profits? How about the Mortage Lenders on the verge of bankruptcy due to margin calls on the Fed securities purchase? Maybe they should have skipped the avocado toast?

Compared to corporations, the most reckless everyday american should be considered austere.

 

that’s a strawman argument if I ever saw one. 
 

of course corporations should also be practicing the same level of responsibility. You’ll get no argument from me on that. But again, gets back to individuals. We as a society allow this to happen because we don’t take any responsibility for the people we put in DC and in state houses.  

[Prickly Pete]

I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I am wondering if the overall death rate (due to ANY cause) has increased in the US, or any other notable countries (say, Italy?) in the last month?

 

Are an inordinate amount of people dying, or is it still close to the normal rate?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by 32ABBA

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You cannot be this naive.  The State of NY has the budget and infrastructure of a small country.  It has some of the finest hospitals and doctors in the world, two experienced senators with insider access to international AND domestic intel as to what was coming based on your criteria and the world as you see it.  Meanwhile, they’ve been spoon feeding you for 4 years that President Trump is an ignoramus and that they alone can save you.  Your boy Cuomo badly mishandled the crisis for the people he’s responsible to protect, your boy Schumer has gone radio silent and Gilibrand has gone to ground to protect herself.  I know this, again, using the criteria you’ve set for sitting in judgement of the crisis, because it’s also an international travel hub and they allowed the near unrestricted travel of carriers to/from and in/around nyc allowing the virus to get a major foothold in this  country. 
 

if you’re going to run about like Chicken Little, dig into the whole experience and whine about all the players, most especially those responsible for NY. 

 

Are any of the players you mentioned responsible for the lack of testing?

Just now, 32ABBA said:

I don't know if this has been discussed all where, but I am wondering if the overall death rate (due to ANY cause) has increased in the US, or any other notable countries (say, Italy?) in the last month? 

 

Are an inordinate amount of people dying, or is it still close to the normal rate?

 

I don't really trust the mortality rate anymore, but it's gone from about 1% two weeks ago to 2% now. 

As hospitals around the country get overwhelmed, it will likely keep creeping higher. 

[Rob's House]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Are any of the players you mentioned responsible for the lack of testing?

 

I don't really trust the mortality rate anymore, but it's gone from about 1% two weeks ago to 2% now. 

As hospitals around the country get overwhelmed, it will likely keep creeping higher. 

 

What should have been done wrt testing?