What I learned from the Titans-Chiefs Championship game

[RochesterRob]

1.  You don't always need flashy WR's to move the ball.  I was fairly impressed with the array of TE's that the Titans had.  Would our TE's approach that level of threat now that they have one year of seasoning under their belts?  I'm hoping that we found perhaps two of our TE's for the next few years.

 

2.  If you can get them it sure is nice to have elite receivers.  Tyreek Hill had an amazing day and certainly helped his team get the win.

 

3.  Both O lines were good but not elite.  Did not see many holes opened for either run game never mind second level blocking.  Henry got probably 60 percent of his production on his own.  The Titan pass rush hurried Mahomes all day.  Point is while dreaming about All Pro Centers and LT's it is nice that is not an absolute requirement to make the conference championship.

 

4.  Both defenses had playmakers but few star players.  Something that the Bills had and with a good FA period and draft will continue to have.

 

5.  It is OK once again to root for the AFC Champion in the SB.  No NE stink or disciple of Bill Bilicheck talk in Vrabel (I call him Jughead) leading up to the SB.  I am old enough to remember Lamar Hunt and the quality person he was and came away liking the son at the acceptance of the trophy named after his father.

 

  Mods if this is too much like any other playoff talk threads then please merge if possible.

Edited January 20, 2020 by RochesterRob

[njbuff]

It tells me the Bills are right there.

 

A few tweaks and bigger balls by the coaching staff could have the Bills SB bound in 2020.

 

We shall see.

[IDBillzFan]

What it told me is if your game is all about play-action, you better learn how to keep your lead.

[RochesterRob]

    A little disappointed that I did not hear a little history in terms of yesterday's matchup.  Both franchises met for the championship following the 1962 season.  A little tidbit we would have gotten a generation ago with Enberg-Olsen calling the game.

[BigBillsFan]

What I learned the most is that scheme trumps most problems. The Chiefs D was mostly Spagnolo's changes, and their offense is Reid's.

 

That identity is just as important as talent. The Titans have a great identity and it's easy to win by knowing what you should do to win and not be fancy. Didn't work against the high powered Chiefs but got them there. The Chiefs identity is big plays and it works so get the personnel.

[Jay free]

Coaching and specialized personnel is how the chiefs and 49ers are doing it.......Andy Reid and Kyle shanahan are not predictable like daboll and infuse variety into their schemes.....so many different players get the ball and play a role.

 

a good running game is how all the playoff teams got here......including the bills.....but what I learned is that your passing game has to be on point......the bills are not.....

 

There's a lot Sean McDermott can learn from his old boss. It would help to get an offensive quality control coach to help check n balance daboll.....he simply is not a championship coordinator.

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Jay free said:

Coaching and specialized personnel is how the chiefs and 49ers are doing it.......Andy Reid and Kyle shanahan are not predictable like daboll and infuse variety into their schemes.....so many different players get the ball and play a role.

 

a good running game is how all the playoff teams got here......including the bills.....but what I learned is that your passing game has to be on point......the bills are not.....

 

There's a lot Sean McDermott can learn from his old boss. It would help to get an offensive quality control coach to help check n balance daboll.....he simply is not a championship coordinator.

  In most organizations it comes down to trusting a player to make a play.  Does Daboll trust Yeldon, Duke, Sweeney with the ball?  The example has been there for decades with teams such as the 1980's 49ers in terms of ball distribution.  

[T master]

What i think i learned was that you need to have more than 1 part of your game that is elite so that if the 1 part does fail you you can utilize the other part of your game to make up for what they take away from your game !

 

Unless of coarse in SF 49ers case the run game is just dominate & the opposition can do nothing to stop you then ride that horse ! 

 

I think the Bills are closer than we may think but improvements need to be made & Beane & company know what those are & will get them taken care of my biggest worry is replacing what will be lost this year as far as say Jordon Phillips .

 

Can Harry, Oliver, & others come up with the production that Phillips did & can they get a draft pick to help the rotation to stay strong there ? & if they can't bring Poyer back can they replace his production or will the new people have the same chemistry to make the scheme work correctly ?

 

All questions i'm sure the coaches & Beane are asking while looking at the Bills situation going into 2020 !! 

[MJS]

I do have questions on whether we have the right offensive coaches on this team. Daboll hasn't answered that question for me yet. At times I've been impressed with him, others I've been convinced he doesn't deserve to be a coordinator at this level. I guess time will tell.

 

We can't expect to go anywhere unless we have a good offensive coordinator.

 

I'm pretty convinced that McDermott is the real deal and that Beane is too. Frazier is a good defensive coordinator as well. I'm just wishing upon a star that Daboll kicks this offense into gear next season.

[mushypeaches]

Offensive coaching is #1 for me.  We can't keep trying to win scoring 17 points if we're never going to legitimately threaten other teams with schemes & personnel

[RyanC883]

better talent, esp. at QB generally wins.  The offensive talent on KC overwhelmed the good Tenn D.  

 

The Tenn offensive does not have enough firepower to come back.  

 

The key is to have a team like KC that can come back, and also sit on a lead.  

 

Will be interesting to see what happens if KC continues the slow starts against a SF team with a nasty D.  

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

better talent, esp. at QB generally wins.  The offensive talent on KC overwhelmed the good Tenn D.  

 

The Tenn offensive does not have enough firepower to come back.  

 

The key is to have a team like KC that can come back, and also sit on a lead.  

 

Will be interesting to see what happens if KC continues the slow starts against a SF team with a nasty D.  

  KC gets no more than 2 series to get on track to win.  I have SF as 7 point favorites to win even though I am an AFC guy.

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  KC gets no more than 2 series to get on track to win. 

 

And what exactly about Mahomes ability to lead that offense on back to back to back quick strike, soul crushing TD drives makes that the case?

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

And what exactly about Mahomes ability to lead that offense on back to back to back quick strike, soul crushing TD drives makes that the case?

  SF DL vs KC OL.  No points after 2 KC drives will tell me that Bosa and Co will have a firm grip on that portion of the game.

[papazoid]

for every strategy ...there is an example that disproves it.

[Motorin']

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  SF DL vs KC OL.  No points after 2 KC drives will tell me that Bosa and Co will have a firm grip on that portion of the game.

 

Well if you say so. I guess the Chiefs only have two drives to win then... What?

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Well if you say so. I guess the Chiefs only have two drives to win then... What?

  You misunderstood me.  The Chiefs don't have two series to squander.  The most probable cause of no points after the first two series which is what Ryan C883 was alluding to is the SF DL being disruptive to the point of KC RB having no place to go and Mahomes running out of bounds or throwing the ball away.

[eball]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

The Titan pass rush hurried Mahomes all day.

 

I guess I wasn't watching the same game you were.  I was astounded at how frequently Tennessee just rushed three, and Mahomes had literally ALL DAY to wait for one of his speedy weapons to break open -- which they always did.  The number of wide open receivers in KC's offense is unbelievable.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I guess I wasn't watching the same game you were.  I was astounded at how frequently Tennessee just rushed three, and Mahomes had literally ALL DAY to wait for one of his speedy weapons to break open -- which they always did.  The number of wide open receivers in KC's offense is unbelievable.

  There were maybe 4-6 plays where I thought Mahomes had all day.  Most of the time he was moving a couple seconds after the snap.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

What it told me is if your game is all about play-action, you better learn how to keep your lead.

 

Which is exactly what Tennessee's victory over Baltimore showed too. Play action is great as is the RPO but you better be effective at getting out to leads if you plan to largely rely on them. Because if you get behind you are going to have to ask your QB to drop back, read the field and make a throw. I actually think if KC gets up on San Fran the same will happen. 

[Golden*Wheels]

I learned Ryan Tannehill will turn back into a pumpkin whenever he gets treated like a princess

 

(I know he played ok most of the day but when they needed to come back and a lot was on his shoulders, I just felt like....there's the Miami Dolphin QB I use to love to see twice a year.)

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I guess I wasn't watching the same game you were.  I was astounded at how frequently Tennessee just rushed three, and Mahomes had literally ALL DAY to wait for one of his speedy weapons to break open -- which they always did.  The number of wide open receivers in KC's offense is unbelievable.

Mahomes can kill you if you blitz frequently. You need to be able to rush 4 and get home while playing blanket coverage. How many teams can do that all game?

 

6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You misunderstood me.  The Chiefs don't have two series to squander.  The most probable cause of no points after the first two series which is what Ryan C883 was alluding to is the SF DL being disruptive to the point of KC RB having no place to go and Mahomes running out of bounds or throwing the ball away.

 

The 9er's can't take Kelce, Hill, Watkins and Hardiman all away on every single play. They have to pick their poison. Teams can be successful early with schemes to limit Hill or Kelce, but the Chiefs are great at adjusting and punishing the opponent because they have 4 solid play makers in the passing attack. 

 

They can also go on huge runs at any point in the game. Getting shut down early has almost no baring on what they will be able to exploit later in the game. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

1.  You don't always need flashy WR's to move the ball.  I was fairly impressed with the array of TE's that the Titans had.  Would our TE's approach that level of threat now that they have one year of seasoning under their belts?  I'm hoping that we found perhaps two of our TE's for the next few years.

 

2.  If you can get them it sure is nice to have elite receivers.  Tyreek Hill had an amazing day and certainly helped his team get the win.

 

3.  Both O lines were good but not elite.  Did not see many holes opened for either run game never mind second level blocking.  Henry got probably 60 percent of his production on his own.  The Titan pass rush hurried Mahomes all day.  Point is while dreaming about All Pro Centers and LT's it is nice that is not an absolute requirement to make the conference championship.

 

4.  Both defenses had playmakers but few star players.  Something that the Bills had and with a good FA period and draft will continue to have.

 

5.  It is OK once again to root for the AFC Champion in the SB.  No NE stink or disciple of Bill Bilicheck talk in Vrabel (I call him Jughead) leading up to the SB.  I am old enough to remember Lamar Hunt and the quality person he was and came away liking the son at the acceptance of the trophy named after his father.

 

  Mods if this is too much like any other playoff talk threads then please merge if possible.

 

We started the process of bringing in more talent at the skill positions on offense, but still need to add a few playmakers to complete the overhaul. Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, Watkins & Williams make up an offense that you can take a player or two away and still put up 35 points.

 

For how good the Titans TEs may be they only put up 295 yards for the game and in the end that's why they lost. They had given up 13 & 12 points in their first 2 playoff games, but once they met an offense that could hurt you in a variety of ways and put up over 30 their offense wasn't built to put up points quickly. 

 

Your if take on a WR for KC having an amazing day doesn't include Watkins then I question what game you watched. Most catches & receiving yards and easily the longest play of the day by either team. For all the negative Sammy gets on this board he will be the leader of any player come Super Bowl Sunday in receiving yards and yards per catch in this year's playoffs. In 4 playoff games now with KC he has 22 catches for 366 yards & a TD and has 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's being a really productive player on an offense that has a ton of talent.

 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Mahomes can kill you if you blitz frequently. You need to be able to rush 4 and get home while playing blanket coverage. How many teams can do that all game?

 

 

The 9er's can't take Kelce, Hill, Watkins and Hardiman all away on every single play. They have to pick their poison. Teams can be successful early with schemes to limit Hill or Kelce, but the Chiefs are great at adjusting and punishing the opponent because they have 4 solid play makers in the passing attack. 

 

They can also go on huge runs at any point in the game. Getting shut down early has almost no baring on what they will be able to exploit later in the game. 

  The Chiefs will not be facing the Texans in the SB.  SF will pressure Mahomes with its DL.  If I am SF DC I make KC win it by making Mahomes go to Watkins and Hardiman.  I take Hill out as much as possible via pass interference.  The SF defensive staff as we speak are checking out the officiating crew for the SB and its tendencies.  I don't think that KC can win if 2/3 of the passes go in the direction of Watkins and Hardiman.  I would have to go back and check Kelce's stats for the AFCG but he did not jump out at me yesterday while watching the television.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

It tells me the Bills are right there.

 

A few tweaks and bigger balls by the coaching staff could have the Bills SB bound in 2020.

 

We shall see.

Bills are a big time pass rusher and a big time WR away from being scary.  

[Motorin']

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  The Chiefs will not be facing the Texans in the SB.  SF will pressure Mahomes with its DL.  If I am SF DC I make KC win it by making Mahomes go to Watkins and Hardiman.  I take Hill out as much as possible via pass interference.  The SF defensive staff as we speak are checking out the officiating crew for the SB and its tendencies.  I don't think that KC can win if 2/3 of the passes go in the direction of Watkins and Hardiman.  I would have to go back and check Kelce's stats for the AFCG but he did not jump out at me yesterday while watching the television.

 

So the 9er's have to commit pass interference on Hill every play. All righty then. Sure, if they can hold him and interfere with him all game and not get called for it then I agree, they have a shot at shutting them down. 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

We started the process of bringing in more talent at the skill positions on offense, but still need to add a few playmakers to complete the overhaul. Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, Watkins & Williams make up an offense that you can take a player or two away and still put up 35 points.

 

For how good the Titans TEs may be they only put up 295 yards for the game and in the end that's why they lost. They had given up 13 & 12 points in their first 2 playoff games, but once they met an offense that could hurt you in a variety of ways and put up over 30 their offense wasn't built to put up points quickly. 

 

Your if take on a WR for KC having an amazing day doesn't include Watkins then I question what game you watched. Most catches & receiving yards and easily the longest play of the day by either team. For all the negative Sammy gets on this board he will be the leader of any player come Super Bowl Sunday in receiving yards and yards per catch in this year's playoffs. In 4 playoff games now with KC he has 22 catches for 366 yards & a TD and has 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's being a really productive player on an offense that has a ton of talent.

 

  Watkins had a few good plays versus several.  Something that I expect SF to make a note of.  If I were a betting man I would bet against Watkins having several productive plays versus having a few.  It's logical for SF to put pressure on Watkins to pull the rabbit out of his hat for several plays.

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

So the 9er's have to commit pass interference on Hill every play. All righty then. Sure, if they can hold him and interfere with him all game and not get called for it then I agree, they have a shot at shutting them down. 

  I hate to break it to you but all teams at the very least encourage PI if it is not a specific point in a plan.  How many DB's get benched after a costly PI penalty?  Very few.  Can you PI interfere Hill literally all game? No. You have to mix it up and part of that is to look at Hill in terms of tendencies.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Watkins had a few good plays versus several.  Something that I expect SF to make a note of.  If I were a betting man I would bet against Watkins having several productive plays versus having a few.  It's logical for SF to put pressure on Watkins to pull the rabbit out of his hat for several plays.

  I hate to break it to you but all teams at the very least encourage PI if it is not a specific point in a plan.  How many DB's get benched after a costly PI penalty?  Very few.  Can you PI interfere Hill literally all game? No. You have to mix it up and part of that is to look at Hill in terms of tendencies.

 

67 yards receiving and a 7 yard run? 

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Watkins had a few good plays versus several.  Something that I expect SF to make a note of.  If I were a betting man I would bet against Watkins having several productive plays versus having a few.  It's logical for SF to put pressure on Watkins to pull the rabbit out of his hat for several plays.

  I hate to break it to you but all teams at the very least encourage PI if it is not a specific point in a plan.  How many DB's get benched after a costly PI penalty?  Very few.  Can you PI interfere Hill literally all game? No. You have to mix it up and part of that is to look at Hill in terms of tendencies.

 

Wishful thinking  all the way around my friend....  we shall see... 

[RochesterRob]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

67 yards receiving and a 7 yard run? 

  Not good enough for a SF team that will most likely produce over 30 points.  If SF can successfully mute Hill the Watkins will need most likely 100-120 yards and that is with Mahomes picking up 50 plus yards and Kelce having a very good day.  I don't expect SF to turn it over to give KC a short field where lesser numbers will add up to many points.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  Not good enough for a SF team that will most likely produce over 30 points.  If SF can successfully mute Hill the Watkins will need most likely 100-120 yards and that is with Mahomes picking up 50 plus yards and Kelce having a very good day.  I don't expect SF to turn it over to give KC a short field where lesser numbers will add up to many points.

 

Sammy put up 114 yesterday, and has averaged over 90 yards per game in his 4 playoff games with KC, seems like 100-120 is not out of the question.

 

KC scored 35 with no short fields, so I don't know what you're referring to with your comment. Their scoring drives were 74, 63, 86, 73 & 88 yards, 5 drives that averaged nearly 77 yards per drive.

 

[RochesterRob]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Wishful thinking  all the way around my friend....  we shall see... 

  Not really.  Nobody has to ride Hill for 10 yards which is obvious.  The SF DL is potent to the point where it just needs its DB's to disrupt Hill for a second or two so the PI could be disguised pretty well.  Not trying to be down on KC but just acknowledging that SF's DL is extremely good.

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Not really.  Nobody has to ride Hill for 10 yards which is obvious.  The SF DL is potent to the point where it just needs its DB's to disrupt Hill for a second or two so the PI could be disguised pretty well.  Not trying to be down on KC but just acknowledging that SF's DL is extremely good.

I saw enough from what Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan could do against their D to know that Mahomes will have success...

 

There's no way they are going to take Hill out of the game. How many times did you see him or Hardiman running crazy motion at the snap of the ball yesterday? They are deadly. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Motorin'

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

Sammy put up 114 yesterday, and has averaged over 90 yards per game in his 4 playoff games with KC, seems like 100-120 is not out of the question.

 

KC scored 35 with no short fields, so I don't know what you're referring to with your comment. Their scoring drives were 74, 63, 86, 73 & 88 yards, 5 drives that averaged nearly 77 yards per drive.

 

  Yeah , I know KC had no short fields but am saying there is no margin for error with respect to SF in those terms.  Yes, he put those numbers up but I question whether he is going to do that in the SB.  I think that SF DB >>>>>>>Ten DB.  Yards for KC receivers will be hard to come by.

[Solomon Grundy]

45 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I guess I wasn't watching the same game you were.  I was astounded at how frequently Tennessee just rushed three, and Mahomes had literally ALL DAY to wait for one of his speedy weapons to break open -- which they always did.  The number of wide open receivers in KC's offense is unbelievable.

From my viewpoint, I saw Mahomes buying time with his movement and making unbelievable throws like the TD to Watkins. Mahomes is very good at buying time in the pocket with his movement. He looks to throw the ball before he runs. Another example was his TD run.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  Yeah , I know KC had no short fields but am saying there is no margin for error with respect to SF in those terms.  Yes, he put those numbers up but I question whether he is going to do that in the SB.  I think that SF DB >>>>>>>Ten DB.  Yards for KC receivers will be hard to come by.

 

He was covered by Gilmore the whole game in last year's AFC Championship game last year and had 8 catches for 114 yards. They doubled Hill & Kelce with other players. SF has a really good defense, but they have no one of the caliber of Gilmore in their backfield to cover Sammy one on one. Mahomes has the head & legs to avoid sacks & extend plays.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

He was covered by Gilmore the whole game in last year's AFC Championship game last year and had 8 catches for 114 yards. They doubled Hill & Kelce with other players. SF has a really good defense, but they have no one of the caliber of Gilmore in their backfield to cover Sammy one on one. Mahomes has the head & legs to avoid sacks & extend plays.

  I'd grade out SF defensive backs as a group over NE.  As individuals the NE DB's are pretty good but SF obviously does something better to get more out of that unit.  There is also the factor that sometimes for a season a team plays above its normal abilities and I think that is where SF is at.  The Giants earned a few SB wins doing that.

[eball]

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

Mahomes can kill you if you blitz frequently. You need to be able to rush 4 and get home while playing blanket coverage. How many teams can do that all game?

Mahomes is awesome but damn, the weapons he has would make any QB look like a star. Like I posted up thread, he is literally throwing to wide open guys all day. 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

It tells me the Bills are right there.

 

A few tweaks and bigger balls by the coaching staff could have the Bills SB bound in 2020.

 

We shall see.

I have no doubt McB will add several offensive weapons to compliment Josh. I don't have alot of faith in the bigger balls portion.  I don't see Dermott ever changing his conservative philosophy. Josh better be prepared to change plays at the LOS.....

We learned that if we ever want to win a SB, we must get through Mahomes.

[Big Blitz]

That getting the bye and even better the #1 Seed matters.  Ask New England.