Scoring points rank

[Cuboirs]

Only 7 teams have scored less points than Buffalos 134...and that includes teams that are clearly tanking.....Great job Beane thinking we have the right peices already

[teef]

[Lagoon Blues]

Can you please post the chart with all?  Wonder how close all are and how many haven't had the bye yet.  Quite a few teams haven't had bye yet...or does that go against your narrative...  If i am not mistaken 18 teams or so haven't had the bye yet...An extra game does tend to help...

Edited October 31, 2019 by Lagoon Blues

[billsfan1959]

 

10 minutes ago, Cuboirs said:

Only 7 teams have scored less points than Buffalos 134...and that includes teams that are clearly tanking.....Great job Beane thinking we have the right peices already

 

I take it you are not much into the finer points of analyzing football?

 

However, they did score more points than 5 of their 7 opponents. That's good, right?

Edited October 31, 2019 by billsfan1959

[Hapless Bills Fan]

There was a post a bit ago about POINT DIFFERENTIAL and how the Bills rank relative to other teams.  Given that the goal of a game is to have more points than the other team when the clock winds down, this is the stat that ultimately matters.  You can have a high scoring team and suck, if your D is porous.  There's a reason Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are both giddy about their team's defenses this year.

 

It's reasonable to compare points per game to look at how effective an offense is, but one does have to look at PPG to normalize for the bye.

[Cruiserplayer]

24th in points per game. Half a point behind the chargers.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said:

24th in points per game. Half a point behind the chargers.

 

Now we have a legit metric to talk about.   

How are they in point differential per game?  I'll help by getting you close:
https://www.nfl.com/standings/league/2019/REG?sortField=netPts&sortIsAscending=false

[jrober38]

We have one of the worst passing games in the league.

 

Points will remain at a premium until Josh Allen's cumulative QB Rating surpasses 90. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, jrober38 said:

We have one of the worst passing games in the league.

 

Points will remain at a premium until Josh Allen's cumulative QB Rating surpasses 90. 

 

Maybe.  But say more about why you pick that particular number, and what is the justification for your choice?

[jrober38]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe.  But say more about why you pick that particular number, and what is the justification for your choice?

 

Honestly it should be higher. I'm just trying to give Josh a target that might actually be attainable.

 

Reality is that we should be aiming for a QB who can consistently post a rating of close to 100.

 

High 90s is where the QBs on the top offenses seem to start. 

[SoCal Deek]

Yea, yea, yea.....and if you look at the teams we face down the stretch they’re virtually all of the worst offenses in the league.  So there’s that!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Here, I'll give you the actual data on point differential per game.  If anyone knows a site that actually calculates this, LMK

 

Bills are currently 12th. 

 

I'll give y'all a little tip from years and years of watching football.  Everyone focuses on the offense and especially the passing game, because that's the flashy stuff.

But the truth is, to get to the off season and succeed there, a team needs both offense and defense to play at a certain level. 

 

The Bills defense is ahead of the offense right now, Iggles game notwithstanding. 

 

 

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here, I'll give you the actual data on point differential per game.  If anyone knows a site that actually calculates this, LMK

 

Bills are currently 12th. 

 

I'll give y'all a little tip from years and years of watching football.  Everyone focuses on the offense and especially the passing game, because that's the flashy stuff.

But the truth is, to get to the off season and succeed there, a team needs both offense and defense to play at a certain level. 

 

The Bills defense is ahead of the offense right now, Iggles game notwithstanding. 

 

 

 

The Bills have faced the 1st, 14th, 22nd, 26th, 29th, 31st and 32nd ranked offenses.

 

In other words, our defense has faced mostly garbage opposition. 

 

Point differential looks great, because we've mostly played horrible teams this year. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Honestly it should be higher. I'm just trying to give Josh a target that might actually be attainable.

 

Reality is that we should be aiming for a QB who can consistently post a rating of close to 100.

 

High 90s is where the QBs on the top offenses seem to start. 

 

In other words, no real evidence, just "looks that way to me"?

We also had a bit of a goal post shift here - you started out "points will be at a premium until...." and now it's "we should be aiming for a QB who..."

Let's stick with the "points will be at a premium until" premise, you good with that?

 

Let's try a quick exercise.  Here's a list of the current top 10 NFL teams on points scored, and a list of the current top 10 teams by passer rating (which happens to be all the teams with passer ratings over 100).   What do you notice?

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, factors other than whether the QB has a passer rating >100 (or some other arbitrary number) impact the quality of an offense.

 

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The Bills have faced the 1st, 14th, 22nd, 26th, 29th, 31st and 32nd ranked offenses.

In other words, our defense has faced mostly garbage opposition. 

Point differential looks great, because we've mostly played horrible teams this year. 

 

We've played who we've played.  This is like a few years back where people wanted to dismiss our running game and say it wasn't that good, because of how many rush yards Tyrod Taylor gained, and subtract those from the total.  It turned out that when one took out the yards gained by all the QBs, we still had a very good running game.  Not quite as good, but still very very good.

 

Point being, if you want to play the "diss us off because we've played bad offenses" game, you need to apply the same metric to all the other teams on that list somehow (also show your work- offenses ranked by what metric?)

 

 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Cuboirs said:

Only 7 teams have scored less points than Buffalos 134...and that includes teams that are clearly tanking.....Great job Beane thinking we have the right peices already

 

Who, exactly, would you have liked Beane to trade for.  And at what price?

[BananaB]

How many of these teams have 9 new starters in their offense? Just curious. Team moves the ball well at times and the shoots themselves in the foot on a constanr basis. McD said our O is in year one of its rebuild while our defense is in year 3. You gotta give it time. We’re winning games, that’s all that matters

[freddyjj]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

good stuff here HBF!

 

Interesting that 7/10 of the top passer rating teams are in top 10 of Power ratings and the Falcons, Raiders and Detroit are all .500 teams or worse.  I believe that the Bills need to score 25 pts per game and hold opponents to under 18 ppg to make it to playoffs and be a factor in playoffs this year.

 

Currently Bills average 19 ppg scored and are given up 17 ppg.  The offense must improve dramatically and average at least one more TD per game on a go forward basis to have the ability to win each game handily.  Josh Allen and Daboll have some work to do.  The Offense is healthy now and has a full complement of parts so lets see what they can do to improve.  

Edited October 31, 2019 by freddyjj

[Mike in Horseheads]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Who, exactly, would you have liked Beane to trade for.  And at what price?

The real good scoring guys for 7th round draft picks

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

good stuff here HBF!

 

Interesting that 7/10 of the top passer rating teams are in top 10 of Power ratings and the Falcons, Raiders and Detroit are all 500 teams or worse.  I believe that the Bills need to score 25 pts per game and hold opponents to under 18 ppg to make it to playoffs and be a factor in playoffs this year.

 

Currently Bills average 19 ppg scored and are given up 17 ppg.  The offense must improve dramatically and average at least one more TD per game on a go forward basis to have the ability to win each game handily.  Josh Allen and Daboll have some work to do.  The Offense is healthy now and as a full complement of parts so lets see what they can do to improve.  

 

I have a bias and I'll put it out there.  I think there are occasional QBs who are amazeballs passers out the gate.  Andrew Luck was one.  After sitting a year, Pat Mahomes was another.  More commonly, especially when a young QB is a known project, the QB's Best Friend is a well-developed and effective run game.  If the QB can count on the run game to move the chains, it opens up all sorts of opportunities for the pass.  So my bias is that what our team really needs, is a more reliable and effective rushing game.  It's no accident that some of these young QB who "came out of nowhere" and look pretty durn good (Kyle Allen, Gardner Minshew) are supported by strong rush attacks.  (We do have a fair number of rushing yards, but I think it's fair to say no opponent regards us as "they'll run it, and run it effectively, until you stop 'em")

 

When we hear reporters probing Daboll about "what is your offense's identity?" "does your offense have an identity?" this is really what they're asking in kind of a polite way.  It's clear that Josh is just NOT at a point, as a passer, where he can carry the team on his arm.  He's taken huge steps this season, but he just isn't there.  He's still learning to read the defense and set the protections and figure out where to go with the ball, and it makes him slow sometimes and then the protection can't hold or the timing is off.

We are FAR more likely to take a step IMO if Daboll focuses more on establishing a sound and reliable run game.  But it's my fear that he'll continue to try to push Allen into trying to establish a passing game for our offense that he really just isn't quite up to yet.

[jrober38]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

In other words, no real evidence, just "looks that way to me"?

We also had a bit of a goal post shift here - you started out "points will be at a premium until...." and now it's "we should be aiming for a QB who..."

Let's stick with the "points will be at a premium until" premise, you good with that?

 

Let's try a quick exercise.  Here's a list of the current top 10 NFL teams on points scored, and a list of the current top 10 teams by passer rating (which happens to be all the teams with passer ratings over 100).   What do you notice?

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, factors other than whether the QB has a passer rating >100 (or some other arbitrary number) impact the quality of an offense.

 

 

We've played who we've played.  This is like a few years back where people wanted to dismiss our running game and say it wasn't that good, because of how many rush yards Tyrod Taylor gained, and subtract those from the total.  It turned out that when one took out the yards gained by all the QBs, we still had a very good running game.  Not quite as good, but still very very good.

 

Point being, if you want to play the "diss us off because we've played bad offenses" game, you need to apply the same metric to all the other teams on that list somehow (also show your work- offenses ranked by what metric?)

 

 

 

We should be aiming for a QB who does that. 

 

Saying we shouldn't is really sad. 

 

Allen is currently 28th in QB Rating. The Bills are currently 24th in scoring at just over 19 points a game.

 

Neither is good enough, and I'm 100% certain that if Allen's QB Rating was at least 10 points higher, we'd be scoring a lot more points. 

 

Our passing game is really bad. For Allen to actually be our franchise QB he needs to get a heck of a lot better. 

[Royale with Cheese]

[jrober38]

34 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

good stuff here HBF!

 

Interesting that 7/10 of the top passer rating teams are in top 10 of Power ratings and the Falcons, Raiders and Detroit are all .500 teams or worse.  I believe that the Bills need to score 25 pts per game and hold opponents to under 18 ppg to make it to playoffs and be a factor in playoffs this year.

 

Currently Bills average 19 ppg scored and are given up 17 ppg.  The offense must improve dramatically and average at least one more TD per game on a go forward basis to have the ability to win each game handily.  Josh Allen and Daboll have some work to do.  The Offense is healthy now and has a full complement of parts so lets see what they can do to improve.  

 

I agree here.

 

There are a few outliers for sure, but there's a correlation between passer rating and winning games. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it exists to some extent.

If you pass the ball efficiently (which is what passer rating effectively measures), you'll probably have a good offense.

 

If you pass the ball inefficiently, you'll probably have a bad offense.

 

8 of the bottom 10 teams in passer rating score less than 20 points per game. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

We should be aiming for a QB who does that.

Saying we shouldn't is really sad.

 

Where has someone said that?

 

I said that you moved the posts.  You started out with two statements:

"We have one of the worst passing games in the league. Points will remain at a premium until Josh Allen's cumulative QB Rating surpasses 90."

 

The first statement is correct.  I am asking you to support and defend the 2nd statement you made.  I think it's arbitrary and I'd like to know if there is evidence supporting it.  You followed up saying actually, it should be more than 100.

 

As a counter point, I offer a list of the top-10 scoring offenses currently and the >100 passer rating offenses.  One can see they are not the same; several of the top passer rating offenses are not top scoring offenses and vice versa.  Clearly there is something going on to build a top scoring offense that is not captured by an arbitrary passer rating number.

 

Do you wish to discuss your initial contention, or do you wish to change the topic of convo from "how to score more points", to "what we should be aiming for in our QB"?  Because they're related, but they're not the same tppic.

[blacklabel]

2 hours ago, teef said:

 

I love the nightlife... I got to boogie...

[r00tabaga]

We were in the Red Zone against the Giants the Titans and I think there's one other when we were ice in the game so you could add easily 21 more points to this and be right in the pack where you should be. That is unless you hate Victory formation

....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

There are a few outliers for sure, but there's a correlation between passer rating and winning games. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it exists to some extent.

 

There's a correlation, but it's weak sauce.  The important thing is, it's not "predictive".  For the current season, it has an R-squared value of 0.406, which translates to if you suggested it to a professional statistician as a valid predictive model he or she would give you the stink-eye.  If I give you the passer ratings of 4 QB, you can not, using their passer ratings, predict how successful their teams are in terms of wins.

 

Here, picture worth several sentences.  My work, taken from NFL.com and pro-football-reference, 2019 season to date.  If you follow passer rating across horizontally, you'll see that the number of wins varies by about 4 games for the same passer rating.

 

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where has someone said that?

 

I said that you moved the posts.  You started out with two statements:

"We have one of the worst passing games in the league. Points will remain at a premium until Josh Allen's cumulative QB Rating surpasses 90."

 

The first statement is correct.  I am asking you to support and defend the 2nd statement you made.  I think it's arbitrary and I'd like to know if there is evidence supporting it.  You followed up saying actually, it should be more than 100.

 

As a counter point, I offer a list of the top-10 scoring offenses currently and the >100 passer rating offenses.  One can see they are not the same; several of the top passer rating offenses are not top scoring offenses and vice versa.  Clearly there is something going on to build a top scoring offense that is not captured by an arbitrary passer rating number.

 

Do you wish to discuss your initial contention, or do you wish to change the topic of convo from "how to score more points", to "what we should be aiming for in our QB"?  Because they're related, but they're not the same tppic.

 

Your rankings list for scoring offenses isn't accurate. Dallas is 6th in the league in scoring but isn't on your top 10.

 

Rankings are silly because the 11th best team averages 0.4 PPG less than 10th place. That difference equates to less than a field goal over a 7 game span which is inconsequential.

 

I don't know where to cut things off. Odds are we won't agree on anything.

 

25 PPG seems like a good target. Looking at the rankings, things begin to drop off quickly from that mark. 

 

Of the 14 teams in the NFL who average over 25 PPG, 6 of them have a QB Rating over 100, and 11 of them have a QB Rating of 91.7 or higher.

 

I want my offense to be there even if it's not based on anything. I think that's where you begin to find the good offenses in the NFL whose teams will contend for the Super Bowl.

[Boatdrinks]

The OP believes that Beane thinks the Bills have the pieces already ? This is doubtful. They still need a WR, Pass rusher and OT most likely. Many reports that the Bills were actively looking to trade for a WR support this notion. The Bills offense needs to do better, but it’s not yet a complete unit. The offense needs to be around the top half of the league in scoring points. They’re not there yet, but they can improve their output this year. Fewer mistakes by Allen and a commitment to the running game by Daboll should help in this area. Will Daboll do this ? That’s another story, and may ultimately decide where the Bills stand in week 17. The passing game has improved from last year’s horrible output, but it’s not good enough to carry the offense right now. 

[Ramza86]

2 hours ago, Cuboirs said:

Only 7 teams have scored less points than Buffalos 134...and that includes teams that are clearly tanking.....Great job Beane thinking we have the right peices already

 

Our pieces are good enough not to be desperate and potentially dig us in a deeper hole.

 

Listen this team was hot garbage last year. They are WAYYY better than last year. Unfortunately the record is giving people a little too much hope. This team just needs to continue on improving itself. The wins against good teams should eventually come.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Ramza86

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a correlation, but it's weak sauce.  The important thing is, it's not "predictive".  For the current season, it has an R-squared value of 0.406, which translates to if you suggested it to a professional statistician as a valid predictive model he or she would give you the stink-eye.  If I give you the passer ratings of 4 QB, you can not, using their passer ratings, predict how successful their teams are in terms of wins.

 

Here, picture worth several sentences.  My work, taken from NFL.com and pro-football-reference, 2019 season to date.  If you follow passer rating across horizontally, you'll see that the number of wins varies by about 4 games for the same passer rating.

 

 

I'm not saying a high passer rating guarantees wins. That's not what I'm arguing.

 

I'm saying our point production is really bad primarily because our passing game is really bad, this year. 

 

If our passing game had a QB Rating of over 90, I'm certain we'd score more points. 

 

If you disagree, that's your choice. 

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The OP believes that Beane thinks the Bills have the pieces already ? This is doubtful. They still need a WR, Pass rusher and OT most likely. Many reports that the Bills were actively looking to trade for a WR support this notion. The Bills offense needs to do better, but it’s not yet a complete unit. The offense needs to be around the top half of the league in scoring points. They’re not there yet, but they can improve their output this year. Fewer mistakes by Allen and a commitment to the running game by Daboll should help in this area. Will Daboll do this ? That’s another story, and may ultimately decide where the Bills stand in week 17. The passing game has improved from last year’s horrible output, but it’s not good enough to carry the offense right now. 

 

I disagree with this.

 

They might want an Alpha #1 receiver but I'd guess they think they have everything else they need on offense given how many guys they signed in the offseason and what some of those contracts look like in terms of the player's salary. 

 

They need to keep improving, but I'd bet that inside OBD they think they gave Allen a pretty good hand to work with. One that is significantly better than the one he had as a rookie. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by jrober38

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Your rankings list for scoring offenses isn't accurate. Dallas is 6th in the league in scoring but isn't on your top 10.

 

I am always willing to take corrections.  The data came from pro-football-reference.com because it's easier to play with.  They currently list the Cowboys as #13 in the league for scoring with 190 points which matches the rank order and data currently on NFL.com.  Please feel free to provide correct data and source if you have better.

 

 

 

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I am always willing to take corrections.  The data came from pro-football-reference.com because it's easier to play with.  They currently list the Cowboys as #13 in the league for scoring with 190 points which matches the rank order and data currently on NFL.com.  Please feel free to provide correct data and source if you have better.

 

 

 

 

Are you factoring that they've played 7 games?

 

190 / 7 = 27.1 PPG which is 6th best in the league. 

 

You must be looking at total points vs points per game. 

 

Given some teams have played 8 and some 7 total points is useless. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by jrober38

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Your rankings list for scoring offenses isn't accurate. Dallas is 6th in the league in scoring but isn't on your top 10.

Rankings are silly because the 11th best team averages 0.4 PPG less than 10th place. That difference equates to less than a field goal over a 7 game span which is inconsequential.

 

I don't know where to cut things off. Odds are we won't agree on anything.

 

If you want to assert that something matters (like reaching a specific passer rating in order to score more points) it's important to show somehow that it matters.

Demonstrating that the two are correlated or that one can draw a threshold and say "this is what we gotta reach", is how one does this.

 

Just for a free bonus, I'll do something that's a better correlation than passer rating and wins: passer rating and points.  It's still weak sauce (R squared of 0.524) but it's better.

 

But you can also see that there's a pretty good variation in points scored with the same passer rating, so there must be strategies that can score more points without higher passer rating.

 

Look, there's a reason that Football Outsiders and Cold Hard Football Facts and ESPN and all those outfits keep boiling up "special sauce" parameters which they hope will better predict winning, and it isn't because passer rating is a particularly useful stat.

 

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Are you factoring that they've played 7 games?

 

190 / 7 = 27.1 PPG which is 6th best in the league. 

 

You must be looking at total points vs points per game. 

 

Given some teams have played 8 and some 7 total points is useless. 

 

Like I said, please feel free to provide better data.  I am open about where I'm getting my data, and what I'm doing with it.

You're making assertions and then when they're questioned, slamming what I've done as useless.

 

Feel free to do your own slicing and dicing that backs up your point.

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you want to assert that something matters (like reaching a specific passer rating in order to score more points) it's important to show somehow that it matters.

Demonstrating that the two are correlated or that one can draw a threshold and say "this is what we gotta reach", is how one does this.

 

Just for a free bonus, I'll do something that's a better correlation than passer rating and wins: passer rating and points.  It's still weak sauce (R squared of 0.524) but it's better.

 

But you can also see that there's a pretty good variation in points scored with the same passer rating, so there must be strategies that can score more points without higher passer rating.

 

Look, there's a reason that Football Outsiders and Cold Hard Football Facts and ESPN and all those outfits keep boiling up "special sauce" parameters which they hope will better predict winning, and it isn't because passer rating is a particularly useful stat.

 

 

Like I said, please feel free to provide better data.  I am open about where I'm getting my data, and what I'm doing with it.

You're making assertions and then when they're questioned, slamming what I've done as useless.

 

Feel free to do your own slicing and dicing that backs up your point.

 

Our data is the same.

 

Dallas' 27.1 PPG is 6th best in the league.

 

You seem to only be looking at total points, which makes no sense if not everyone has played the same number of games. 

 

In terms of total points, Dallas is 13th, but 9 of the teams ahead of them have played an extra game so obviously they're going to have more points. 

 

I'm not slamming your data. I'm just showing you that your rankings for Points PER Game is wrong.

 

If the stat you've used is flawed, it's hard to accept the charts and graphs you've shown.

Edited October 31, 2019 by jrober38

[Boatdrinks]

20 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I'm not saying a high passer rating guarantees wins. That's not what I'm arguing.

 

I'm saying our point production is really bad primarily because our passing game is really bad, this year. 

 

If our passing game had a QB Rating of over 90, I'm certain we'd score more points. 

 

If you disagree, that's your choice. 

 

I disagree with this.

 

They might want an Alpha #1 receiver but I'd guess they think they have everything else they need on offense given how many guys they signed in the offseason and what some of those contracts look like in terms of the player's salary. 

 

They need to keep improving, but I'd bet that inside OBD they think they gave Allen a pretty good hand to work with. One that is significantly better than the one he had as a rookie. 

So the number of FAs signed indicates that all of those players have panned out as hoped thus far? That all holes were addressed ? Salary is one thing, and long term commitment is another. Many of these signings are of the variety that the team can walk away from relatively painlessly in short order. The signings were necessary because so many players on last year’s offense weren’t good enough to start in the league. Bottom line; when upgrading the 31st ranked passing offense from last year ( which they have : currently 23rd ) there are too many holes to fill in one FA period/ draft. Still a couple pieces to add. They’ve given Allen a better hand to be sure, but it’s not exactly a flush. The best thing they can do now is find their running game and stick with it. The passing game ( and thereby Allen ) will get a direct benefit. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[BananaB]

I’m not a stats guy, so what’s  the percentage of our scoring drives when Devin Singletary is the feature RB compared to Gore the feature RB. Just curious because when Devin is on the field it seems good ***** happens. Jets, Giants and Eagles game come to mind where our O looked better when he was on the field. 

[reddogblitz]

Had Hyde gone down instead of running the onsides kick in for a TD, we would be 27th in points per game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

11 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Our data is the same.

 

Dallas' 27.1 PPG is 6th best in the league.

 

You seem to only be looking at total points, which makes no sense if not everyone has played the same number of games. 

 

In terms of total points, Dallas is 13th, but 9 of the teams ahead of them have played an extra game so obviously they're going to have more points. 

 

I'm not slamming your data. I'm just showing you that your rankings for Points PER Game is wrong.

 

If the stat you've used is flawed, it's hard to accept the charts and graphs you've shown.

 

So great.  Present your own data and make your own argument.  The point I’m making is that the top passer ratings and top point scoring offenses are not a congruent set.  There is overlap, but the one doesn’t predict the other. 

 

If you can show that they are more power to you - do it.

[Nextmanup]

Bills points DIFF is +18 right now.  Baltimore, another 5-2 team, is +58.  

 

New England's is +189.  SF is +133. 

 

Redskins is -89.

 

The reality is that Josh Allen is something like the 25th best QB in the league depending on how you want to slice and dice it and what you look at or value.

 

Don't expect a better passing attack without a better QB.

 

 

[BananaB]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Bills points DIFF is +18 right now.  Baltimore, another 5-2 team, is +58.  

 

New England's is +189.  SF is +133. 

 

Redskins is -89.

 

The reality is that Josh Allen is something like the 25th best QB in the league depending on how you want to slice and dice it and what you look at or value.

 

Don't expect a better passing attack without a better QB.

 

 

Do you guys just expect every player in this league to step in and look like a seasoned vet? 
 

Our offense is full of castoffs. A bunch a guys who came here to get more playing time then they could somewhere else. It’s better then last year but we are still not very talented. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by BananaB