McDermott on no trades: "There have been too many years of irresponsible decision-making, let's just put it that way."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Quickly- which team has had, up until this point, the more productive passing offense: the 8-0 49ers or the 5-2 Bills? 

 

I GAF which team has had, up until this point, the more productive POINT PRODUCING offense and YARD PRODUCING offense which is usually, but not always, correlated to points.

 

So back atcha: Quickly which team has had, up until this point, the more productive offense on points, the the 8-0 49ers or the 5-2 Bills?

OK, maybe you're one of those "but YARDS are the real metric" types, let's do yards?

 

I am not arguing about effective passing offense but about overall offensive effectiveness and I think that is very clear from the post to which you are responding.

 

When the Bills have the #2 offense in the league for scoring points, just FTR I won't GAF whether they score 'em by running or passing.  In fact I'd be "all in" with a good ground-n-pound ball hogging rushing attack.  Having a run-heavy offense with a reliable rushing game is a proven strategy for developing a young QB.  The Patriots did it with Brady, all the way to the Superbowl his 2nd year.  The Seasnakes did it with Wilson his first couple years - all the way to the Superbowl his 2nd year.

 

[BITE ME]

It is one thing to not want to make a trade and give up picks, it is another to not pick up a WR off waivers.  The fact the Bills did not go after Josh Gordon just shows the front office and coach are not the types that will ever win a World Championships.  What an opportunity to take a PATRIOT and stick it to the Patriots.  Total failure.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

Exaggerate much?
 

 

You don't read many of his posts, do you?

 

It's all histrionics, all the time.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, FUTURIST said:

It is one thing to not want to make a trade and give up picks, it is another to not pick up a WR off waivers.  The fact the Bills did not go after Josh Gordon just shows the front office and coach are not the types that will ever win a World Championships.  What an opportunity to take a PATRIOT and stick it to the Patriots.  Total failure.

 

I would have liked to see the Bills take a shot at him.  After all, they took a shot at Corey Coleman, how much worse could it be?

 

But to look at it from another perspective, Daboll may still be fairly plugged in to friends in the Pats coaching assistant staff.  It is possible that they shied off due to gouge about Gordon from that staff.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, FUTURIST said:

It is one thing to not want to make a trade and give up picks, it is another to not pick up a WR off waivers.  The fact the Bills did not go after Josh Gordon just shows the front office and coach are not the types that will ever win a World Championships.  What an opportunity to take a PATRIOT and stick it to the Patriots.  Total failure.

 

The dude's a drug addict, alcoholic and if Billy Boy is cutting him, there's a reason.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And? These are merely excuses.

 

Did you watch the game last night? Arizona has a 1st QB, HC, and offense and are better offensively in just about every category then Buffalo. 

 

...so assuming Kliff is calling the plays, compare him to Daboll as another potential factor....what say you?.............

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You don't read many of his posts, do you?

 

It's all histrionics, all the time.

 

 

I know but it was the 7 years that made me twitch.  I should be old enough to know better.

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He drafted his QB last year . . . 

 

It isn't like he walked in thinking the QB situation was all set. But hey, you think he should have started sooner, that is fine.  

 

But, don't pretend the rebuild started three years ago. For this team, it started last year when they drafted Allen. 

 

He drafted him and then let him sink without a bonafide QB coach and non-NFL caliber OL and receivers.   What's the point of drafting a QB if you're going to do that???  It's either because you're too stupid to know better or you don't care because you drafted a first round QB to placate fans not to win football games.  The handling of the QB situation last season was totally and inexcusably incompetent -- or grossly self-serving.  Three of the young backup QBs who have taken over for starters this season --  Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Mason Rudolph  -- are playing better than Allen right now.  Do they have more talent?  No, but they've sure had better coaching than Josh Allen has had.

 

PS -- DON'T even try to whine about how they salary cap hampered them in getting talent last season.  First of all, the salary cap problems were of their -- McDermott and Beane's -- own making in their single-minded purging of the top players from the previous regime.  Secondly, coaches aren't subject to a salary cap. 

 

4 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If he keeps playing like he is he will be getting the Trubiski treatment sooner rather than later. 

 

I don't think so.  If Allen doesn't improve, they'll make more excuses for him and claim he needs "more time" because he's "raw".  If Allen is a bust, Beane and McDermott are probably gone sooner than later.

 

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think there is no way they let Tre go and play on a 5th year option.  They will extend his contract next year and use next year (last of rookie contract)

to ease the signing bonus.

I see a good chance the same happening to Poyer.

As for Milano he is on his last year of his rookie contract next year.

 

 

LOL.  It is currently at 2.5 seasons since they took over.  Where in the heck are you getting 7 years from!

Exaggerate much?

Time will tell but I expect some big FA signings along with another decent draft.

Next March will be the START of year 4.

 

I guess you are in favor of Pegula cleaning house after this season?

If so, who is your hopeful GM/HC signings?

 

I will believe that the Bills will keep Tre White when he actually re-signs a new contract with the Bills.  The Bills have never re-signed a top DB that they've developed.  They've only re-signed the mediocre ones like  Leodis McKelvin. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by SoTier

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I GAF which team has had, up until this point, the more productive POINT PRODUCING offense and YARD PRODUCING offense which is usually, but not always, correlated to points.

 

So back atcha: Quickly which team has had, up until this point, the more productive offense on points, the the 8-0 49ers or the 5-2 Bills?

OK, maybe you're one of those "but YARDS are the real metric" types, let's do yards?

 

I am not arguing about effective passing offense but about overall offensive effectiveness and I think that is very clear from the post to which you are responding.

 

When the Bills have the #2 offense in the league for scoring points, just FTR I won't GAF whether they score 'em by running or passing.  In fact I'd be "all in" with a good ground-n-pound ball hogging rushing attack.  Having a run-heavy offense with a reliable rushing game is a proven strategy for developing a young QB.  The Patriots did it with Brady, all the way to the Superbowl his 2nd year.  The Seasnakes did it with Wilson his first couple years - all the way to the Superbowl his 2nd year.

 

It's just nitpicking imo. There are always going to be stronger and weaker parts of a team. When the Bills have the #2 offense in points there will be people complaining about how the defense is allowing too many. 

 

We've scored enough thus far to be 5-2. And guess what? At some point this season we aren't going to score enough points and the season will be over. Until then, I see no reason to fuss over a team that has performed pretty much exactly how I expected it to thus far. 

 

 

[BillsVet]

 

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

McDermott has a plan, and its frankly an obvious one: rebuild defense, then rebuild offense. We are in year two with our developmental QB.  Be critical of the plan, I get it. But if you expect the offense to be that much better at the half way point with that much turnover, than that is on you. 

 

Rebuilding the defense has been exposed as a flawed strategy, particularly these last 2 games.  Buffalo puts on the field 3 1st round picks, multiple moderate to high priced UFAs, and some value type players and still gives up 52 points in the past 2 games.  The best teams are focusing on offense while having a good enough defense, but McD bucked that trend.    

 

Not surprisingly, we're now hearing from the HC and fans this narrative how the offensive turnover is to blame for their lack of production.  No one talks about how the same OC has been here for a 2nd season with the starting QB.  Nor do they talk about why the offensive turnover was necessary...because last year's Bills offense flirted with being among the league's worst since passing rules were changed in 1978.  Of course they had to improve  the OL, WR, TE, and RB positions this off-season.  

 

The more I see him, the more McDermott comes off as a latter day Dick Jauron.  No feel for offense, unable to hire a decent OC, and choosing to go with player who buy into his system than better talent that may not.  I see McD as the guy who always is planning and trying to be in control.  But then the proverbial bullets start going overhead and he's not adjusting.  The guy works his tail off, but sweat doesn't count in this league without results. 

[GoBills808]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Like I said: 
It isn't because they have ignored that side of the ball, it is because they have not done a great job of identifying talent on that side of the ball.   2 firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and the 2nd highest paid center should be better than bottom of the barrel. 

 

 

2 firsts?

[ColoradoBills]

56 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I will believe that the Bills will keep Tre White when he actually re-signs a new contract with the Bills.  The Bills have never re-signed a top DB that they've developed.  They've only re-signed the mediocre ones like  Leodis McKelvin. 

 

Which is why I said it will tell us a lot about what Beane/McDermott are all about.

[Rocket94]

35 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Which is why I said it will tell us a lot about what Beane/McDermott are all about.

This trend of not keeping top db's has to stop with White. White has become one of their own, and his contribution to this Bills team is immense. I don't always buy in to the "You can find Db's anywhere" bs! How does this reflect on the culture that the Bills are creating.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 

 

Brandon. Is. Not. An Employee. Of. The. Buffalo.  Bills.

 

No but McDermott is--and Woods, Gilmore, Watkins, McCoy, Glenn were all on the roster when. he got here.....

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No but McDermott is--and Woods, Gilmore, Watkins, McCoy, Glenn were all on the roster when. he got here.....

 

 

 

So? Woods left as a FA, his right. Watkins and Glenn still hurt. McCoy nearly benched, Gilmore's the only one you MAY have a case for but he didn't want to be here.

 

So, he cut or traded overpaid, underperforming players. That's a good thing.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So? Woods left as a FA, his right. Watkins and Glenn still hurt. McCoy nearly benched, Gilmore's the only one you MAY have a case for but he didn't want to be here.

 

So, he cut or traded overpaid, underperforming players. That's a good thing.

The main point was that “Brandon” had nothing to with any of those moves.

 

But to your point,  FAs are not mandated to exercise their “right” to live on.  They will usually stay for the right price.  No one anywhere has suggested Woods was underperforming.  Gilmore could have been convinced to stay for a new motivated defensive minded coach for a price.  
 

Also,  all of these guys are gone and the best WR on the team is John Brown,  the best RB (by far) is 36 yo Frank Gore.  At CB they have Tre and.....pretty much no one significant. 

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No but McDermott is--and Woods, Gilmore, Watkins, McCoy, Glenn were all on the roster when. he got here.....

 

 

See Joe’s response above.  I still would like Sammy.  But Woods wanted to be back in Cali and Gilmore has a shot to play for Belichick.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

See Joe’s response above.  I still would like Sammy.  But Woods wanted to be back in Cali and Gilmore has a shot to play for Belichick.

see my response above

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

see my response above

I mentioned that Brandon is no longer an employee because SoTier is like a dog with a chew toy trying to lump him in with the current regime, just like he lumps Ralph and Terry together for some bizarre reason.  McD and Beane are setting the team up the way they see fit.  We’ll see if they’re right.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

 

2 firsts?

 

 

Really, that’s all you got out of what I posted? 

 

Sorry 2 2nds and a 1st. Is everything different now? 

[GoBills808]

45 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

Really, that’s all you got out of what I posted? 

 

Sorry 2 2nds and a 1st. Is everything different now? 

In their 3 years here this regime has made 4 first round picks. And to be honest I'm not surprised at all you don't see an issue with incorrectly attributing a full 25% of their first-round draft capital to the wrong side of the ball. Because as you've repeatedly and unabashedly demonstrated, facts and being accurate aren't nearly as important as getting your opinion out there...so no, everything is EXACTLY the same.

[Commsvet11]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I mentioned that Brandon is no longer an employee because SoTier is like a dog with a chew toy trying to lump him in with the current regime, just like he lumps Ralph and Terry together for some bizarre reason.  McD and Beane are setting the team up the way they see fit.  We’ll see if they’re right.

Do you remember why he is no longer an employee of the Bills? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

The only guy on that list that is a proven difference make is Morris. 

 

If Singletary can’t catch the foot consistently or can’t beat out a 36 yo RB then we are in serious trouble at RB because Yeldon sucks. If he is having fumbling issues in practice that’s not good either.

 

Josh Allen as of right now would be considered a slightly better than average starting QB. He’s still a very raw QB and will be given another year to produce before he gets the Trubiski treatment.

 

Dawkins has been solid but I feel like LT is a area that needs a upgrade. 

 

I don't think Josh Allen would be considered a "slightly better than average starting QB".  I love the guy, and we knew he was a project when we drafted him, but he's got miles to go.

 

Where did you hear the tidbit about Singletary having fumbling issues in practice?

 

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It's just nitpicking imo. There are always going to be stronger and weaker parts of a team. When the Bills have the #2 offense in points there will be people complaining about how the defense is allowing too many.

 

OK, I'm out of here.  You ask something that has its nitpicky aspect, and when it's answered fully "oh that's nitpicking"

 

If and when we see the Bills having the #2 offense on points I'll be delighted to do the experiment as to whether or not people complain.

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Really, that’s all you got out of what I posted? 

 

Sorry 2 2nds and a 1st. Is everything different now? 

 

You nitpicker you.  Good post btw

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/31/2019 at 5:45 PM, Mark92 said:

There seems to be a lot of hate being thrown towards McDermott in this thread.  I am very surprised.  The man got a lesser team to the playoffs then what Rex had and went 5-11.  Then he followed it up by leading probably the worst team in the league to 6-10.  Now they are 5-2 and 10 wins is a real possibility.  What am I missing??

 

Criticism or caveats are not equal to hate.

 

You're missing:

-If McDermott led the worst team in the league to 6-10, it's fair to ask why it was the worst team in the league?  Decisions and choices were made.

-They were 5-2 in 2017 at this point and the last two games have been fugly

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, I'm out of here.  You ask something that has its nitpicky aspect, and when it's answered fully "oh that's nitpicking"

 

You nitpicker you.  Good post btw

We have the #3 defense by yards. Points is YOUR hangup, not everyone's. 

 

And since you're agreeing with the guy who not only doesn't know how many first round picks the Bills spent on offense, but also clearly doesn't understand much about the game in general as evidenced by his interpretation of game footage, maybe it is time to rethink.

[Locomark]

22 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Let me put this another way: what could a rational observer of this team reasonably expect to be better? Outside offensive production, which I think we can all acknowledge is an issue due in large part to a lack of true playmakers (which I believe will be resolved this offseason)...what more do you want out of this team at this particular point in time?

Who do you suggest will be added in the off-season that will address the playmaker situation? The FA WR is bone dry unless they sign AJ Green and expecting a rookie WR picked at either 22 or 44 to make an immediate impact is a crap shoot. 

[Jrb1979]

47 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Bone dry?

 

Off the top of my head Green, Cooper, Robby Anderson, and Fitzgerald- although past his prime can still play and would be a good influence on any WR the Bills draft(1st or 2nd round I hope).

They blew their chance to help this season with passing on Gordon. While he may have issues, he would have been worth taking a flyer on. Anything would this offense. 

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Bone dry?

 

Off the top of my head Green, Cooper, Robby Anderson, and Fitzgerald- although past his prime can still play and would be a good influence on any WR the Bills draft(1st or 2nd round I hope).

 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Bone dry?

 

Off the top of my head Green, Cooper, Robby Anderson, and Fitzgerald- although past his prime can still play and would be a good influence on any WR the Bills draft(1st or 2nd round I hope).

Are you serious? Cooper has 0 chance of reaching FA. Fitzgerald will never leave the Cards, Robby Anderson isn’t a “big weapon”...so yes bone dry...Cooper and Green are the only difference makers out there. I have a feeling Green wouldn’t sign here because he probably wants to sign with a premier QB if not extending with Cinci long term unless we drive the brinks truck up. 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

In their 3 years here this regime has made 4 first round picks. And to be honest I'm not surprised at all you don't see an issue with incorrectly attributing a full 25% of their first-round draft capital to the wrong side of the ball. Because as you've repeatedly and unabashedly demonstrated, facts and being accurate aren't nearly as important as getting your opinion out there...so no, everything is EXACTLY the same.

 

Unsure if you’re trying to be this way, or being pedantic is in you nature.

 

This conversation started because you (paraphrasing) asked the board to find something other than the offense that was sub par because they don’t have any players there. I responded with, that’s half the roster and we’ve dedicated tons of resources listing the draft picks, and we shouldn't be bottom of the league given the resources allocated. Not sure how switching Josh Allen from 2 firsts to a first and 2 seconds really changes my point to be in your favor. 

 

You keep moving the goal posts without ever actually making any point what so ever. 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Unsure if you’re trying to be this way, or being pedantic is in you nature.

 

This conversation started because you (paraphrasing) asked the board to find something other than the offense that was sub par because they don’t have any players there. I responded with, that’s half the roster and we’ve dedicated tons of resources listing the draft picks, and we shouldn't be bottom of the league given the resources allocated. Not sure how switching Josh Allen from 2 firsts to a first and 2 seconds really changes my point to be in your favor. 

 

You keep moving the goal posts without ever actually making any point what so ever. 

Pedantic, sure. But also I prefer things be accurate.

 

When you tried to say Allen should have thrown the ball to Brown in that BUF/ clip: well...you were wrong. 

 

When you said the FO spent two first round picks on offense: guess what, you were wrong again.

 

I'm sure there are other areas you're right in. But this football thing ain't it. 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Pedantic, sure. But also I prefer things be accurate.

 

When you tried to say Allen should have thrown the ball to Brown in that BUF/ clip: well...you were wrong. 

 

When you said the FO spent two first round picks on offense: guess what, you were wrong again.

 

I'm sure there are other areas you're right in. But this football thing ain't it. 

 

So just to get this straight. I misquoted the Allen pick as 2 firstsand not a first and 2 seconds. 

 

Just to stay on point, we should expect more out of 2-1sts, 3- 2nds, 2-3rds, and the second highest paid center. That’s enough of an investment to expect more than bottom 25% of the league production.

 

But change that investment to 1-1st, 5-2nds, 2-3rds and the second highest paid center, and suddenly nobody understands the game, don’t complain about the offense, and people are nitpicking with their criticisms. 

 

Jesus Christ...

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

So just to get this straight. I misquoted the Allen pick as 2 firstsand not a first and 2 seconds. 

 

Just to stay on point, we should expect more out of 2-1sts, 3- 2nds, 2-3rds, and the second highest paid center. That’s enough of an investment to expect more than bottom 25% of the league production.

 

But change that investment to 1-1st, 5-2nds, 2-3rds and the second highest paid center, and suddenly nobody understands the game, don’t complain about the offense, and people are nitpicking with their criticisms. 

 

Jesus Christ...

'The second highest paid center' is pretty funny. 

 

'How are they not a top offense when they have the SECOND HIGHEST PAID CENTER!'   lmao come on bro

 

The Bills are the 19th in offensive YPG, just fyi. That's a little under average. Keep thinking the sky is falling.

[Mango]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

'The second highest paid center' is pretty funny. 

 

'How are they not a top offense when they have the SECOND HIGHEST PAID CENTER!'   lmao come on bro

 

The Bills are the 19th in offensive YPG, just fyi. That's a little under average. Keep thinking the sky is falling.

 

Again, is the offense performing to the level you would expect given the level of investment in both draft capital and money by this front office? 

 

It is an easy questions. Yes or No? 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Mango

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Again, is the offense performing to the level you would expect given the level of investment in both draft capital and money made by this front office? 

 

It is an easy questions. Yes or No? 

Absolutely. In fact, everything is going as I expected. I have nailed every Bills game thus far.

 

The offense is performing pretty much exactly how I thought it would. Solid run game, below average passing. Ball control type offense. Young QB. New offensive line. No real playmakers. Grinding out wins. 5-2. Soon to be 6-2. And feeling GREAT about it all.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Albert Breer reported that they went after both Sanders and Sanu. Regarding sanders I doubt Denver was going to jump to trade him to a team they face in a few weeks if they had other suitors. Drake was actually in the the division so that’s rarely done for a starter who they think can still play 

 

not saying i wanted them per say just noticing the impact they made in their first game. 

 

 

[CorkScrewHill]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:49 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

If he blames the previous admin it looks like an excuse. If he blames Beane, it strains relationships. If he blames himself, he looks incompetent. 

Perhaps he is blaming all three and he is saying we have learned from the past and he isn't necessarily talking about just trades, rather all personnel decisions that basically put them in cap hell or impacted their draft capital. You need to balance both. In this case some of the trades being discussed were for players on expiring contracts or solid players asking for exorbitant dollars. They made the call to stick with what they have .. keeping their draft picks and not limiting their cap space.

 

It can be an excuse to blame the old regime .. but if mentioned as a here was our starting point it is probably fine. I don't think he views himself and Beane as separate entities in these decisions (unlike many GM / HC situations they are fairly joined at the hip. It is certainly not sign of incompetence to admit to your failings. People who don't never grow and get better.

 

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Which is why I said it will tell us a lot about what Beane/McDermott are all about.

 

Totally agree. 

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I mentioned that Brandon is no longer an employee because SoTier is like a dog with a chew toy trying to lump him in with the current regime, just like he lumps Ralph and Terry together for some bizarre reason.  McD and Beane are setting the team up the way they see fit.  We’ll see if they’re right.

 

There is no "bizarre reason" for believing that Russ Brandon linked Ralph Wilson and Terry Pegula except that Russ Brandon ran the Bills from 2006 until 2013 when they were sold to Pegula, and Pegula not only retained Brandon but then promoted him to run the Sabres.   Brandon was only fired in 2018 because he sexually harassed the wrong Sabres employee, not because Pegula became disillusioned with his performance.  Beane was Brandon's top assistant, hired on his watch.  What is "bizarre" is expecting Beane to NOT share Brandon's philosophy toward running the Bills.

 

McDermott and Beane are setting up the

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

That is a move I can see them making with other players but in Tre's case I don't (or let me reword that) and say I hope not.

Tre seems to be the "poster child" for McDermott and I see them locking him up early (a reward if you will) for not only his play but his

leadership and attitude.  He should be the perfect guy to re-sign early and show the rest of the locker room they walk the walk.

 

For my money it's going to be very interesting to see which way they go with him. 

It will be a big "tell" as to where this team is going in the future.

 

I think this is a great explanation of this viewpoint.  Tre was their first draft success.  They need to send the message "if you do right by our team the team will do right by you"

[YoloinOhio]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

not saying i wanted them per say just noticing the impact they made in their first game. 

 

 

I didn’t think much of Sanders (especially for what was given up) but he indeed has looked good. On the broadcast they attributed it to him apparently already knowing the offense. I’m not sure if shanny jr’s Offense is the same as kubiaks because he is s shanny Sr disciple? Must be.  But elway is always going to take the NFC trade partner there vs the team he plays in a few weeks. I would have liked to have drake (especially for what was given up) but that was never happening. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by YoloinOhio