Jonathan Jones NOT fined for his hit on Allen

[4_kidd_4]

I reaaaally try to discount the whole “league bias” take, but really, something this blatant makes it kinda hard to not believe in it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Do fines affect wins and losses?

 

No, and neither do penalties when they can be offset by a guy on the opposite team with a handful of jersey.

 

Fundamentally, what the league just said is that if you see the refs throwing laundry, launch a free hit at any runner's helmet.  Knock him out but try flashing your shoulder at the last minute, and you're good.  Riveron says so.

[mjpbills]

9 hours ago, klos63 said:

Take off the Buffalo colored glasses and you will see that's exactly what happened. It wasn't a dirty hit.

If the hit was on Marsha there would have been an ejection and a fine

[4merper4mer]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's extremely unlikely to happen.  Look at the language.  Key to the ruling is that Allen was regarded as a runner still capable of forward progress.  And you know it - he's gotten yards before with 1-3 guys hanging off him.

 

So we're extremely unlikely to see Brady in an identical situation subject to an identical hit.  Brady is gonna slide, or chuck the ball OOB.

 

The problem is, the league is saying it's OK to do that to a running back.  And if it is, they are no way serious about the helmet to helmet stuff.

I don't think it will happen either, but Riveron deserves to have it happen.  

[SirAndrew]

This is why I don’t watch the NFL outside of Bills games. The league is a joke, and doesn’t deserve a penny from fans. Only the Bills keep me coming back. 

[nucci]

2 hours ago, ny33 said:

The legality of the play is a toss-up from my perspective; Jones was definitely too aggressive and positioned himself for a penalty, but I don't think it was driven by malice with intent to injure. Penalty and no fine seems quite appropriate. I'm much more concerned with the fact that the league didn't address, let alone suspend, Henry Anderson for trying to take Josh's legs out a few seconds after Allen was out of the play.

 

Riveron is an embarrassment who is doing more damage to the NFL than the league seems to realize; he's in the most important role in football other than the commissioner, and has prioritized defending the league and referee's decisions over driving continuous improvement and consistency in officiating. He's also made clear errors in numerous decisions in a role that has to be perfect in processing the facts and evidence off the field (Benjamin touchdown reversal last year, for example). The NFL is doing serious harm to its brand, especially post events like Spygate and the impact of officiating failures on games such as Saints-Vikings in last year's playoffs on top of the perception that certain players receive preferential treatment (there is clear evidence that mobile QBs like Newton are granted fewer roughing the passer calls on top of the widely-held belief that Brady and others are treated differently)

Have you seen the fines handed out weekly in the league? 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/05/demarcus-lawrence-fined-for-second-time-this-season/

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/05/von-miller-fined-21056-for-his-illegal-hit-on-gardner-minshew/

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, klos63 said:

Take off the Buffalo colored glasses and you will see that's exactly what happened. It wasn't a dirty hit.

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

27 minutes ago, mjpbills said:

If the hit was on Marsha there would have been an ejection and a fine

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

[nucci]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

Similar to Cam Newton...

[RaoulDuke79]

9 hours ago, The Wiz said:

So everyone in the league knows now, turn your shoulder at their helmet when you plan on leading with the helmet and you won't get fined. 

I'm curious if Matthews will get fined for his hit on Wilson from Thursday night. 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

10 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Did you know they assessed a penalty on the play?

Holding on offense, unnecessary roughness on defense.  Penalties offset.  3rd and 10.  Barkley came in and threw a 30 yard dime to Brown against a heavy blitz, in which Gilmore interfered with Brown.  But Brown made a fantastic one handed catch regardless.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Rock'em Sock'em

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I'm curious if Matthews will get fined for his hit on Wilson from Thursday night. 

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

All while preaching that they're interested in player safety. JEESH hypocrits

[RaoulDuke79]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought Matthews did get fined for his hit on Wilson.  Roughed up Russ Wilson, got kicked in the jaw by their RB on a later play.  Ejection from the game and at least 4 games "suspension".

 

That's how the league wants it to be I guess.  Just don't be dumb about it boys.

I'm my option, which may be somewhat skewed,  the hit on Allen was much more egregious than the one Matthews put on Wilson. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I'm my option, which may be somewhat skewed,  the hit on Allen was much more egregious than the one Matthews put on Wilson. 

 

Welp then, "fine" appropriately because the writing is on the wall from the league: they won't do a thing.

 

But Allen still has to stop stiff-arming guys and learn to slide.

[davefan66]

When at the game and seeing the replay, it looked like a bad hit.  Rewatched at home, looked like he purposely hit Allen in the head.  That being said, when watching from the other angle the next day, gotta say it didn’t look as bad.

[BUFFALOKIE]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I see is that (regardless of intent and "dirtyness" of the hit)

1) Jones could have tackled the runner differently in a way that wouldn't smash helmets

2) If the league wants to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, they have to take a consistent stance on Every One.  Every.  One.

 

Regardless of Jones intent, what the league just said to all DB is "if you see laundry fly, go ahead and helmet the runner in the hat.  your team won't suffer, and if you flip your shoulder as you hit, you're good"

 

I think this is very unfortunate.

 

 

Again....look at the wording.  Allen being regarded as a runner at that point, still on his feet and churning forward for yards, is part of the picture.

 

You are NOT going to see Brady**** putting himself in that same situation.

 

Whether we like it or not, it's the league sending a message to Allen and the Bills as well: "if you (your boy) wants to put himself in harm's way, stiff-arm and truck over linebackers, put his head down and keep his feet churning for yards, he's getting no protection and no benefit of the doubt when he does"

 

Allen:  SLIDE.  S-L-I-D-E.

I'm okay with this, so long as it is consistent. I did not think this hit was dirty nor illegal. 

 

Just slide, bro!

[KennyDavisEyes]

3 hours ago, ny33 said:

but I don't think it was driven by malice with intent to injure.

https://mobile.twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/1178729550093733888?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1178729550093733888&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231178729550093733888

[Wayne Arnold]

It's the double-standard that bothers me. If that had been Brady (it never would have been because Brady is smarter than to allow himself to get creamed like that) Jonathan Jones would have been arrested and given a life sentence.

[billsfan1959]

It is the kind of thing QBs who can run are subject to, particularly big, strong, physical QBs - Just ask Cam Newton. A double standard in that sense has existed for awhile.

 

However, when I watch this play, I just can't escape 2 facts:

 

1. It was definitely helmet to helmet contact first.

2. Jones' intent was not to attempt a normal, wrap up tackle, it was to deliver a hit - and, he absolutely intended to deliver that hit to Allen's head area. This is really the kind of thing the NFL needs to get rid of: the desire to deliver that highlight hit, instead of making a tackle. It is what gets players hurt.

 

I have watched every ange and fact number 2 above cannot be denied:

 

 

[The Red King]

For anyone defending this...can you honestly look me in the eyes and say were it Brady that was hit like that, there'd be no fine?

 

They got away with it because they are the Pats.  If the league is unwilling to send a message and defend it's players...whelp...I suppose it's up to the Bills.  Turn your shoulder and you can knock Brady into next week.  That's the precident the league just set, right?  What's good for the goose...

Edited October 6, 2019 by The Red King
Typo

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, and neither do penalties when they can be offset by a guy on the opposite team with a handful of jersey.

 

Fundamentally, what the league just said is that if you see the refs throwing laundry, launch a free hit at any runner's helmet.  Knock him out but try flashing your shoulder at the last minute, and you're good.  Riveron says so.

Personal foul penalties have been offsettable for years. If the offense holds, you could  target and hit the QB late in the backfield, but then you wouldn’t get the yardage. 

 

Isn’t this really just childish outrage because Josh got a boo boo?

1 hour ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

Holding on offense, unnecessary roughness on defense.  Penalties offset.  3rd and 10.  Barkley came in and threw a 30 yard dime to Brown against a heavy blitz, in which Gilmore interfered with Brown.  But Brown made a fantastic one handed catch regardless.

Well if you want personal fouls to count, don’t hold, right? 

 

You know that’s how all fouls work right? Roughing the kicker, roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness, will all offset a holding penalty. This has been the rule in the NFL for years. I wonder what’s changed to make y’all so ornery.

[billsfan1959]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Isn’t this really just childish outrage because Josh got a boo boo?

 

No, it is anger at watching our QB take a deliberate shot to the head and watching the league, whose mantra has been curbing unneccessary hits to the head, do nothing.

[Another Fan]

I mean if this took place 20 years ago not a big deal at all really.  Jimbo even took some rougher hits than that.

 

But yeah as everyone alluded too you can't tell us if that was Brady on the receiving end of that there'd be no league repercussions.  

Edited October 6, 2019 by Another Fan

[dhg]

11 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Is there a soul alive who believes that if it was Tom Brady getting speared in the head,  that this would be the ruling?

 

That's one of the worst helmet to helmet hits I've seen.

 

Wow...

 

 

 

 

If that was Brady they would have taken our guy out of the stadium in handcuffs

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

No, it is anger at watching our QB take a deliberate shot to the head and watching the league, whose mantra has been curbing unneccessary hits to the head, do nothing.

By “do nothing,” you mean call a penalty which negated offensive holding which would have resulted in an injury and a 3rd and 20?

 

“Do nothing” is flat out untrue and a clear sign of the cognitive dissonance in this thread.

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

By “do nothing,” you mean call a penalty which negated offensive holding which would have resulted in an injury and a 3rd and 20?

 

“Do nothing” is flat out untrue and a clear sign of the cognitive dissonance in this thread.

The league didn't do that, the officials during the game did that. If you can't understand the distinction in the discussion, then, perhaps, you should explore your own cognitive dissonance. 

 

Of course, it would all be a moot point if we had a QB who played like your idol:

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by billsfan1959

[1st&ten]

11 hours ago, klos63 said:

Take off the Buffalo colored glasses and you will see that's exactly what happened. It wasn't a dirty hit.

 

Yes , I guess his intent was to just tackle Josh so at the end of the play when Josh was laying on the ground injured & he was standing over Josh gloating he must had actually been saying a pray for Josh.

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

The league didn't do that, the officials during the game did that. If you can't understand the distinction in the discussion, then, perhaps, you should explore your own cognitive dissonance. 

 

Of course, it would all be a moot point if we had a QB who played like your idol:

 

 

Right, the league doesn’t tell the officials what penalties to call or what the rules are, I guess I forgot. There’s no dissonance there!

[billsfan1959]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Right, the league doesn’t tell the officials what penalties to call or what the rules are, I guess I forgot. There’s no dissonance there!

And the officials do not hand out fines - which happens to be the TOPIC in the thread you are responding to. Are you being deliberately obtuse or is it your natural state of cognition?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

IS THAT TOM BRADY LOWERING HIS HEAD?????

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

And the officials do not hand out fines - which happens to be the TOPIC in the thread you are responding to. Are you being deliberately obtuse or is it your natural state of cognition?

Why would you care about a fine more than a penalty? Would you rather it not get called a penalty on the field and Jones to have gotten a fine? Which scenario affects the product on the field more?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

15 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

 

Yes , I guess his intent was to just tackle Josh so at the end of the play when Josh was laying on the ground injured & he was standing over Josh gloating he must had actually been saying a pray for Josh.

Kinda makes the whole story about not wanting to hurt anybody fall on it's face!

[klos63]

10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Didn't matter regarding Tuck rule they made up for Br*dy either.

Take off the New England colored glasses and you will see if it was a deliberate hit.

 

Did you cash Kraft's check yet?

Is this supposed to be a clever response?

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Why would you care about a fine more than a penalty? Would you rather it not get called a penalty on the field and Jones to have gotten a fine? Which scenario affects the product on the field more?

I would rather the league be consistent in its message and desire to protect all players.

 

Why is this so difficult for you to understand. You are in a thread about the league's position on protecting players and the role of fines or suspensions - yet you seem so oblivious to to the actual topic matter in a thread you are choosing to participate in.

 

SMDH....

[klos63]

3 hours ago, mjpbills said:

If the hit was on Marsha there would have been an ejection and a fine

Marsha? Seriously?

19 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

 

Yes , I guess his intent was to just tackle Josh so at the end of the play when Josh was laying on the ground injured & he was standing over Josh gloating he must had actually been saying a pray for Josh.

No his intent was to hurt him, because everyone is against Buffalo. Why does the NFL hate us so much. Wah wah wah.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I would rather the league be consistent in its message and desire to protect all players.

 

Why is this so difficult for you to understand. You are in a thread about the league's position on protecting players and the role of fines or suspensions - yet you seem so oblivious to to the actual topic matter in a thread you are choosing to participate in.

 

SMDH....

I have read all the threads on this topic. You all pretend like a penalty wasn’t assessed on the field so you can shake your fist at the sky and say the league hates Buffalo and hates Josh Allen and wants him to die on the field.

 

more power to y’all. 

[The Red King]

Again...to anyone defending this, can you look me in the eyes and say if Brady took that hit there would be no fine?

 

I'm waiting...

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

I have read all the threads on this topic. You all pretend like a penalty wasn’t assessed on the field so you can shake your fist at the sky and say the league hates Buffalo and hates Josh Allen and wants him to die on the field.

 

more power to y’all. 

Your assessment of posts by the vast majority of Bills fans on this topic is as flawed as your assessment of the actual play on the field.

 

Not surprising.

[BringBackOrton]

12 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Your assessment of posts by the vast majority of Bills fans on this topic is as flawed as your assessment of the actual play on the field.

 

Not surprising.

It was a helmet to helmet hit and penalty, called correctly on the field. Not sure what else there is to assess.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

12 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Did you know they assessed a penalty on the play?

Did you they also threw a phantom flag on us for holding, thus negating the 15 yarder on the Patricheats?