Doc Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Asking a foreign government for a political favor. You mean like...Joe withholding $1B in loans to Ukraine until they fired a prosecutor looking into, among other things, why someone unqualified like Hunter Biden was being paid $50K/month to sit on the Board of Ukranian natural gas company Burisma? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, dubs said: Ha. Ok. Got it. Dem Playbook: 1) use your political position and influence to enrich your family through foreign governments and foreign corporations 2) call any investigation into said corruption a crime, especially if it’s being done by an opposition party 3) fire up the doublespeak department of truth (MSM) to obfuscate the obvious 4) when that doesn’t work, wait a few weeks, rinse, repeat Once again Biden being corrupt is irrelevant to wither or not Trump broke the law. Just now, Doc said: You mean like...Joe withholding $1B in loans to Ukraine until they fired a prosecutor looking into, among other things, why someone unqualified like Hunter Biden was being paid $50K/month to sit on the Board of Ukranian natural gas company Burisma? Yeah throw Biden in jail, I don't care to defend Joe Biden but the corruption charges against Biden being true or untrue do not factor into wither or not what Trump did was illegal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Yeah throw Biden in jail, I don't care to defend Joe Biden but the corruption charges against Biden being true or untrue do not factor into wither or not what Trump did was illegal. For Biden to be thrown into jail, that whole thing has to be looked into. If there's political gain from it, it's a by-product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doc said: For Biden to be thrown into jail, that whole thing has to be looked into. If there's political gain from it, it's a by-product. There are channels through the justice department to go through if Trump wanted this investigated. He went straight to the Ukraine a country the US has power over to expedite the process to use Ukranian resources for political gain. Thus using his position as president to ask for a political favor. Thus breaking the law regardless of Biden's guilt or innocence. Edited September 26, 2019 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Asking a foreign government for a political favor. Which specific law is that? Or is this just a long Kingpin reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: “the intangible right of honest services.” 18 U.S.C. § 1346. The theory is that by performing an official act in exchange for personal gain, a public official defrauds his constituents of his honest services 18 U.S.C. 1346 reads as follows: For the purposes of this chapter, the term “scheme or artifice to defraud” includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services. That's it. Edited September 26, 2019 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: “the intangible right of honest services.” 18 U.S.C. § 1346. The theory is that by performing an official act in exchange for personal gain, a public official defrauds his constituents of his honest services Please identify the "official act" Trump performed for "personal gain". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Doc said: You mean like...Joe withholding $1B in loans to Ukraine until they fired a prosecutor looking into, among other things, why someone unqualified like Hunter Biden was being paid $50K/month to sit on the Board of Ukranian natural gas company Burisma? Looks like both Biden and Trump we’re wrong in using their office for personal gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Once again Biden being corrupt is irrelevant to wither or not Trump broke the law. Yeah throw Biden in jail, I don't care to defend Joe Biden but the corruption charges against Biden being true or untrue do not factor into wither or not what Trump did was illegal. You would need far FAR more to go on that the transcript we read to be correct. In fact, you’d need an entirely new set of facts. There was literally nothing in that transcript that was “illegal”. There was nothing even shady. Like I said pages and pages before, when I finished reading it I had to go over it again because I thought I missed a page or something. To believe any of this nonsensically story you have to believe that any mention of any support of a country or leader is somehow a veiled threat to pull aid. Even though the The President has been crystal clear when there is a threat to pull aid (see Mexico) Example: “Prime Minister, we appreciate our relationship with your country and have always been a big supporter and great friends, unlike other countries who are closer in proximity to you” Dem Translation: THREAT! ILLEGAL! IMPEACH! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: Please identify the "official act" Trump performed for "personal gain". Forget it. It's not even what the code section says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Just now, Rob's House said: Forget it. It's not even what the code section says. I am pretty sure it was the same ***** they were trying to pin on him for the trump tower meeting which was crap then, same ***** just recycled again in a new package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Please identify the "official act" Trump performed for "personal gain". Trump met with the Ukrainian president in an official capacity as president. A meeting with a foreign leader to discuss matters is by definition an official act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 The biggest “crime” here is the amount of money US Taxpayers give to foreign countries year after year and don’t bother even questioning it. USAID website is a staggering way to spend a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Trump met with the Ukrainian president in an official capacity as president. A meeting with a foreign leader to discuss matters is by definition an official act. Are you trolling? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmu1977 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Dems have the votes, repubs starting to see the light. Time for tRump to pull a nixon and resign. Any of you think he will want to sit thru an impeachment trial. Cracks in the gop wall of obstruction are starting to show. God bless America and our constitution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 My god people really don’t know how our government works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Trump met with the Ukrainian president in an official capacity as president. A meeting with a foreign leader to discuss matters is by definition an official act. So... you're trying to claim that the Ukrainian president somehow paid Trump to meet with him? You really should read the "law" you're trying to cram this farce into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, dbmu1977 said: Dems have the votes, repubs starting to see the light. Time for tRump to pull a nixon and resign. Any of you think he will want to sit thru an impeachment trial. Cracks in the gop wall of obstruction are starting to show. God bless America and our constitution! Normally I reserve this response for Tibs' stupidity, but you've managed to spectacularly outdo him: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Not really. They're both interpreting through their preconceived notions, which are diametrically opposed. Plus, they're both nitwits. I always thought it was spelled "knit wits". I'll use it in a sentence: "Joe Biden is as dumb as those things you knit wit.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, billsfan89 said: If the charges of corruption are legit and there was a justification for it I honestly wouldn't care if he asked the justice department to look into it. As POTUS, he heads/oversees the DOJ and is the ultimate boss on enforcing the law. So aren't you splitting hairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Why are folks replying go this thread? Tibs will just delete it in a month anyways, after he doesn't like the ends. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 This whole thing seems screwy. There’s no smoking gun, or smoke, or fire. Congress allocated funds. Trump held up the funds. Trump apparently has been holding up different funds going to aid foreign countries for awhile now, claiming that the U.S. shouldn’t do all of the contributing. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine/trump-administration-reinstates-military-aid-for-ukraine-idUSKCN1VX213 “...Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell praised the Trump administration’s release of the funds, saying: “It would have been a mistake to hold back our assistance to the brave people of Ukraine. Doing so would have undermined our partners in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and further emboldened the Kremlin.” It was one of several disputes recently between Trump and members of Congress, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, over his administration’s decision to sidestep congressional approval to fund its own policy initiatives. ...” This Ukraine money and the hold up of it seems to have been heaped into the Administration’s way of dealing with these matters (hold up the money and complain that other countries aren’t pulling their weight), and it seemed as though Congress was getting pissed off. Then Giuliani is reported to have met with Ukrainians about investigating Biden. Then Chris Murphy (in May, 2019) wrote a letter to his Committee Chair in the Senate, complaining of a possible connection — in this particular case — between Giuliani’s actions and the $$ being held up. Murphy was fired up about it. https://www.murphy.senate.gov/download/ukraine-giuliani-letter But it didn’t seem to go anywhere until some random whistleblower complaint was filed. The rough transcript of the phone conversation seems to belie Trump’s m.o. about other countries, mentioning Merkel and Germany. It didn’t seem like Trump implicitly or explicitly said he was not going to turn over the money. It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the Ukraine though there was a condition put on the money to help out in a US political matter. In fact, it was thought as recently as early September, that the hold up was because of Trump’s coddling of Putin. http://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/slow-walking-military-aid-to-ukraine/ Odd how the narrative changed from one reason to another reason to yet another reason over time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 minute ago, snafu said: This whole thing seems screwy. There’s no smoking gun, or smoke, or fire. Congress allocated funds. Trump held up the funds. Trump apparently has been holding up different funds going to aid foreign countries for awhile now, claiming that the U.S. shouldn’t do all of the contributing. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine/trump-administration-reinstates-military-aid-for-ukraine-idUSKCN1VX213 “...Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell praised the Trump administration’s release of the funds, saying: “It would have been a mistake to hold back our assistance to the brave people of Ukraine. Doing so would have undermined our partners in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and further emboldened the Kremlin.” It was one of several disputes recently between Trump and members of Congress, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, over his administration’s decision to sidestep congressional approval to fund its own policy initiatives. ...” This Ukraine money and the hold up of it seems to have been heaped into the Administration’s way of dealing with these matters (hold up the money and complain that other countries aren’t pulling their weight), and it seemed as though Congress was getting pissed off. Then Giuliani is reported to have met with Ukrainians about investigating Biden. Then Chris Murphy (in May, 2019) wrote a letter to his Committee Chair in the Senate, complaining of a possible connection — in this particular case — between Giuliani’s actions and the $$ being held up. Murphy was fired up about it. https://www.murphy.senate.gov/download/ukraine-giuliani-letter But it didn’t seem to go anywhere until some random whistleblower complaint was filed. The rough transcript of the phone conversation seems to belie Trump’s m.o. about other countries, mentioning Merkel and Germany. It didn’t seem like Trump implicitly or explicitly said he was not going to turn over the money. It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the Ukraine though there was a condition put on the money to help out in a US political matter. In fact, it was thought as recently as early September, that the hold up was because of Trump’s coddling of Putin. http://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/slow-walking-military-aid-to-ukraine/ Odd how the narrative changed from one reason to another reason to yet another reason over time. The only thing that remains constant is the Left's rage over Trump's election. I suspect there is a massive counter-reaction wave coming in 2020, a tsunami of Americans angry at the unending charade and double standards perpetrated by media and the deep state. Can't wait to vote again for Bad Orange Man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Paulus said: Why are folks replying go this thread? Tibs will just delete it in a month anyways, after he doesn't like the ends. Yeah, but in the interim, it's still fun to mock the leftist fantasy/stupidity. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, snafu said: This whole thing seems screwy. There’s no smoking gun, or smoke, or fire. Congress allocated funds. Trump held up the funds. Trump apparently has been holding up different funds going to aid foreign countries for awhile now, claiming that the U.S. shouldn’t do all of the contributing. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine/trump-administration-reinstates-military-aid-for-ukraine-idUSKCN1VX213 “...Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell praised the Trump administration’s release of the funds, saying: “It would have been a mistake to hold back our assistance to the brave people of Ukraine. Doing so would have undermined our partners in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and further emboldened the Kremlin.” It was one of several disputes recently between Trump and members of Congress, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, over his administration’s decision to sidestep congressional approval to fund its own policy initiatives. ...” This Ukraine money and the hold up of it seems to have been heaped into the Administration’s way of dealing with these matters (hold up the money and complain that other countries aren’t pulling their weight), and it seemed as though Congress was getting pissed off. Then Giuliani is reported to have met with Ukrainians about investigating Biden. Then Chris Murphy (in May, 2019) wrote a letter to his Committee Chair in the Senate, complaining of a possible connection — in this particular case — between Giuliani’s actions and the $$ being held up. Murphy was fired up about it. https://www.murphy.senate.gov/download/ukraine-giuliani-letter But it didn’t seem to go anywhere until some random whistleblower complaint was filed. The rough transcript of the phone conversation seems to belie Trump’s m.o. about other countries, mentioning Merkel and Germany. It didn’t seem like Trump implicitly or explicitly said he was not going to turn over the money. It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the Ukraine though there was a condition put on the money to help out in a US political matter. In fact, it was thought as recently as early September, that the hold up was because of Trump’s coddling of Putin. http://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/slow-walking-military-aid-to-ukraine/ Odd how the narrative changed from one reason to another reason to yet another reason over time. That's 100% correct and why, in the public's eye, this dog ultimately won't hunt. There's no proof Trump withheld the money because of anything other than what he's said since day one of his campaign -- and nearly every day through his first term. He wants people to "contribute" their "fair share". Whatever that means in Trumpisms, it is not isolated to the Ukraine nor anything the average person is going to blink at. Impeachment is entirely political -- so they can do what they want. But if they think this is going to help them win in 2020 they're nuts. And recent history has proven that to be the case. They're nuts. They know they are going to lose in 2020, and seem genuinely terrified about what the OIG and Durham are finding and near releasing, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this now. Think about all that this story does simultaneously: * It allows the democrat establishment to cry "POLITICAL PERSECUTION" right before examples of their political persecution is exposed to a wider audience * It severs ties to the Obama administration for anyone not named Castro left in the running. That's smart if you know that the OIG is about to drop a cloud of corruption and scandal over 44's administration in the 2016 election. All it took was for them to decide to throw Joe Biden under the bus. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: The only thing that remains constant is the Left's rage over Trump's election. I suspect there is a massive counter-reaction wave coming in 2020, a tsunami of Americans angry at the unending charade and double standards perpetrated by media and the deep state. Can't wait to vote again for Bad Orange Man. Yeah, I’ve been calling it our great national temper tantrum. It’s been going on since November 9, 2016. Very unbecoming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) Hmm... Pretty sure Stewart is incorrect and means the transcript -- but he is on the committee and was cleared to see it. I don't see it anywhere. Nope -- that's not it, this is the OLC opinion. Jumped the gun https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6429710-OLC-Opinion-Trump-Ukraine-Call.html Edited September 26, 2019 by Deranged Rhino 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Yeah, but in the interim, it's still fun to mock the leftist fantasy/stupidity. No. He deleted the Epstein thread and there were many people who guessed on when he would be suicided. Due to him we dont know who guessed the closest, and rightful king of the PPP sub. He should be banned. Edited September 26, 2019 by Paulus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Hmm... Pretty sure Stewart is incorrect and means the transcript -- but he is on the committee and was cleared to see it. I don't see it anywhere. Can the intelligence committee declassify it? I thought that’s an Executive Branch job. I could easily be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, snafu said: Can the intelligence committee declassify it? I thought that’s an Executive Branch job. I could easily be mistaken. I think Trump just ordered it. I'm still trying to get that cleared up -- reporters are all over the place on it... so (shrug). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, Paulus said: Why are folks replying go this thread? Tibs will just delete it in a month anyways, after he doesn't like the ends. I have to admit ths thread got dicey. I went back about 10 hours and found out: 1. Tibs was in rare form. He posted a series of Tibseaque thoughts, but agreed with a few points raised by Das Rhino and made me laugh with a comment about being buried in right wing tweets. That was funny. I give Tibs an A, but as he is a liberal I must drop his grade to an F because the A represents American Exceptionalism and he ain't down with that. 2. Transplant appeared to be in emotional free fall during one post. I feel badly because while there are places to go for emotional support during those times (Emotional Assistance 800 numbers, Facebook and pretty much any Alyssa Milano tweet), this isn't the place. I gave him an A because I wanted him to feel better about himself. 3. Crayola claimed to be an attorney for a bigly law firm, and I believe him as he spent the next 200 threads debating hearsay and boring me to shmitherenes. I gave him an A as well, fearful that if I give him his actual grade of F, he would commence litigation for defamation of character. 4. Gary Busey posted often and apparently continues to recover from the doink to the head suffered in a motorcycle accident sustained while playing Mr. Joshua with Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon. I give him an F for content, but upgraded him to an A for brutality when torturing Mr. Gibson with a battery charger and nipple clips in the movie. 5. DC Tom has abandoned idiot for nitwit. I'm not sure how I feel about this, so I have given him an incomplete grade. 6. DR received a nomination for an Emmy. Awesome! 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: Nope -- that's not it, this is the OLC opinion. Jumped the gun https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6429710-OLC-Opinion-Trump-Ukraine-Call.html You can *almost* get through the opening paragraph before laughing at the breathless, urgent, circus level absurdity of it all. Oh, and note the footnote at the bottom of Page #1: Sep. 3rd is when it was known that this did not consist of an "urgent concern". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Reactions are mixed ? 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Once again Biden being corrupt is irrelevant to wither or not Trump broke the law. Yeah throw Biden in jail, I don't care to defend Joe Biden but the corruption charges against Biden being true or untrue do not factor into wither or not what Trump did was illegal. I've been saying this for pages. They can't see way their noses in this. Biden can go down too. But the current thread is about trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Hmm... Pretty sure Stewart is incorrect and means the transcript -- but he is on the committee and was cleared to see it. I don't see it anywhere. Nope -- that's not it, this is the OLC opinion. Jumped the gun https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6429710-OLC-Opinion-Trump-Ukraine-Call.html classic DC. an 11 page opinion on a 4 page transcript. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 37 minutes ago, Foxx said: classic DC. an 11 page opinion on a 4 page transcript. I'll shorten it for you all: This wasn't an intelligence issue. You're welcome. 30 minutes ago, /dev/null said: The impeachment effort will fail without more evidence. But the impeachment announcement before the transcript was released was crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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