Group Chat: Coaching

[Chandler#81]

How’d they do?

[Chandler#81]

PI challenges are ridiculous. McDermott’s nefarious record now stands at 1 for 12. Otherwise, nothing to complain about.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

PI challenges are ridiculous. McDermott’s nefarious record now stands at 1 for 12. Otherwise, nothing to complain about.

Eh I think they were just having a go of it just to test how things worked and get more film for review.

[MJS]

I think the coaches are just trying to challenge anything that looks close just to see how it goes.

[YoloinOhio]

Clapping = Playoff Caliber 

[Warcodered]

at best I could say they weren't baited into sticking the starters in there longer than they wanted just because it looked bad. They worked the run game and the 2 minute and were out.

[Freddie's Dead]

Meh.  McD hasn't had to make any game management decisions yet.  Still can't challenge for *****.  I hope he's learned, but unfortunately, I think it's just a matter of time before he blows a TO or mismanages the clock at the end of the half/game that costs us a win.

[BuffaloButt]

McD made a fundamental error right before half.  He should have called timeout with 15-20 secs left which if Det goes for the FG and misses we would have had 1-2 plays to try to get into FG range.  Det may have just punted or gone for it.  Either way we should have called TO to not let them milk the clock and kick without any potential liability if they missed.

[Matt_In_NH]

29 minutes ago, BuffaloButt said:

McD made a fundamental error right before half.  He should have called timeout with 15-20 secs left which if Det goes for the FG and misses we would have had 1-2 plays to try to get into FG range.  Det may have just punted or gone for it.  Either way we should have called TO to not let them milk the clock and kick without any potential liability if they missed.

Agree but I assumed that was because it was preseason and he was happy to move to the second half.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Not happy with the play selection in the first half.

[simpleman]

I blame the coaching for the unacceptable amount and the types of penalties. The holding on ST with a fair catch called was unacceptable. Coaches are responsible for fielding a disciplined team. This was a sloppy, unprepared and undisciplined group. Especially on ST and Offense. I am not talking about the 2s and 3s, you might expect that from them. It is the #1s I'm talking about.

 

[CLTbills]

7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

PI challenges are ridiculous. McDermott’s nefarious record now stands at 1 for 12. Otherwise, nothing to complain about.

Honestly, I think coaches in general are challenging these just to get a database once we get to the regular season. I have no problem with it. I’d have a problem with it if it were a regular season game... but I think it’s more just trying to get a feel for the new rule and to see how these things are going to be officiated.

[Chandler#81]

Just now, CLTbills said:

Honestly, I think coaches in general are challenging these just to get a database once we get to the regular season. I have no problem with it. I’d have a problem with it if it were a regular season game... but I think it’s more just trying to get a feel for the new rule and to see how these things are going to be officiated.

 

Good take. So tell me, what have we learned? That there is no feel for it? There’s contact between Receiver and DB virtually all the way through a pattern. The point at which one player diminishes the others effort on the ball is far too nefarious. Ghost calls are not likely the thinking behind the rule,  but that’s what’s happening, imo.

[CLTbills]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Good take. So tell me, what have we learned? That there is no feel for it? There’s contact between Receiver and DB virtually all the way through a pattern. The point at which one player diminishes the others effort on the ball is far too nefarious. Ghost calls are not likely the thinking behind the rule,  but that’s what’s happening, imo.

Honestly, I’ve learned that unless it’s as egregious as the NRC play in the NFC title game, they are not going to change it. There was a play in the Redskins game Thursday night that was truly a head scratcher. Offensive player was incorrectly called for OPI, and on review, it was UPHELD, which was absolutely ridiculours. Ball was under thrown and he was going for the ball, never put his hands on the defender. And the defender had his back to the ball, just running straight into the receiver. It was clear as day that it was NOT offensive pass interference. Even the commentators were like, “what?!?!?!?” I’ll see if I can find a video.

 

the point is, unless you take the guy out 5 minutes before the ball gets there, they’re not going to change any calls. The review of PI is going to be basically useless.

@Chandler#81

 

heres the link. I stand corrected.. it wasn’t on Thursday night, but my point is the same nonetheless. If THIS is upheld on review, then the entire thing is an absolute joke.

 

[Chandler#81]

It’s too early for that assessment, imo. Plus the angst generated throughout a long wait is just terrible for the game.

[Rochesterfan]

16 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Honestly, I’ve learned that unless it’s as egregious as the NRC play in the NFC title game, they are not going to change it. There was a play in the Redskins game Thursday night that was truly a head scratcher. Offensive player was incorrectly called for OPI, and on review, it was UPHELD, which was absolutely ridiculours. Ball was under thrown and he was going for the ball, never put his hands on the defender. And the defender had his back to the ball, just running straight into the receiver. It was clear as day that it was NOT offensive pass interference. Even the commentators were like, “what?!?!?!?” I’ll see if I can find a video.

 

the point is, unless you take the guy out 5 minutes before the ball gets there, they’re not going to change any calls. The review of PI is going to be basically useless.

@Chandler#81

 

heres the link. I stand corrected.. it wasn’t on Thursday night, but my point is the same nonetheless. If THIS is upheld on review, then the entire thing is an absolute joke.

 

 

 

It got pointed out that the OPI was earlier in the route where the receiver pushed off to gain the separation that caused the later contact.  

 

I believe they made the correct call - you just can’t see it from the game film - because that part was prior to the downfield view.

 

The ref had already started pulling the flag and throwing it well before the late contact.  It was actually the correct call - just hard to see in the context of the game and rule change.

 

There is a beautiful view of the ref with the flag getting ready to throw it just before the contact occurs.  It is obvious after the fact that they called the receiver push off and that was seen on review and upheld.  That lead to the defensive PI, but that was not called - so it stayed as just OPI and was correct.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Rochesterfan

[Rochesterfan]

22 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Honestly, I’ve learned that unless it’s as egregious as the NRC play in the NFC title game, they are not going to change it. There was a play in the Redskins game Thursday night that was truly a head scratcher. Offensive player was incorrectly called for OPI, and on review, it was UPHELD, which was absolutely ridiculours. Ball was under thrown and he was going for the ball, never put his hands on the defender. And the defender had his back to the ball, just running straight into the receiver. It was clear as day that it was NOT offensive pass interference. Even the commentators were like, “what?!?!?!?” I’ll see if I can find a video.

 

the point is, unless you take the guy out 5 minutes before the ball gets there, they’re not going to change any calls. The review of PI is going to be basically useless.

@Chandler#81

 

heres the link. I stand corrected.. it wasn’t on Thursday night, but my point is the same nonetheless. If THIS is upheld on review, then the entire thing is an absolute joke.

 

 

 

If you look at 0:25 and 0:26 seconds in the video there is the perfect shot of the ref with the flag already out and starting to throw it and the ball is just arriving at the receiver.  

 

That is how how you can be sure whatever he saw had occurred well before the the final contact.

 

The 2 announcers were from the Redskins feed - so of course they were like what the heck - I mean Joe T has not been a relevant announcer for over a decade - this is like Tasker questioning calls in a Bills game.

 

The problem is the limited view we have compared to the refs and people assume all the time that the tape is correct, but our view of the tape is very limited and the refs are focused on a specific area/player group.

 

In the end though - I agree the rule change was stupid and we are seeing the exact reason why -  ticky-tack hand fight occurs on every play and you have just inserted a rule to point that out and it will be enforced inconsistently and cause more problems than it solves.  Good job Coaches - getting what you want when you don’t know the issues it will cause - stupid.

[PromoTheRobot]

Debating play calling and challenge flags in a preseason game, huh?

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Not happy with the play selection in the first half.

 

I was totally happy with it once I caught on. This was a night dedicated to seeing what we had in the run game (mainly, for the o-line), and it proved capable. The first two games were about the short passing game, this was about running. Success!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, CSBill said:

 

I was totally happy with it once I caught on. This was a night dedicated to seeing what we had in the run game (mainly, for the o-line), and it proved capable. The first two games were about the short passing game, this was about running. Success!

 

I'm definitely willing to walk back my initial take on singletary.

[CSBill]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'm definitely willing to walk back my initial take on singletary.

 

Yeah, he is a keeper.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

MEH + 

 

rationale is in other threads 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Not happy with the play selection in the first half.

Remember that this was a near game environment and the goal was to work the run game, it was not intended to be played as a real game.  Preseason is for practicing various concepts in a “near game environment”

 

Go Bills !!!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Remember that this was a near game environment and the goal was to work the run game, it was not intended to be played as a real game.  Preseason is for practicing various concepts in a “near game environment”

 

Go Bills !!!

I get that. What I'm saying is I don't think I ever want to see that in a real game environment. Barring of course a 6 minuter clock run out.

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I get that. What I'm saying is I don't think I ever want to see that in a real game environment. Barring of course a 6 minuter clock run out.

Oh for sure, neither would I, and I suspect we won’t.

 

Go Bills!!!

[JESSEFEFFER]

3 hours ago, CLTbills said:

Honestly, I’ve learned that unless it’s as egregious as the NRC play in the NFC title game, they are not going to change it. There was a play in the Redskins game Thursday night that was truly a head scratcher. Offensive player was incorrectly called for OPI, and on review, it was UPHELD, which was absolutely ridiculours. Ball was under thrown and he was going for the ball, never put his hands on the defender. And the defender had his back to the ball, just running straight into the receiver. It was clear as day that it was NOT offensive pass interference. Even the commentators were like, “what?!?!?!?” I’ll see if I can find a video.

 

the point is, unless you take the guy out 5 minutes before the ball gets there, they’re not going to change any calls. The review of PI is going to be basically useless.

@Chandler#81

 

heres the link. I stand corrected.. it wasn’t on Thursday night, but my point is the same nonetheless. If THIS is upheld on review, then the entire thing is an absolute joke.

 

 

Riveron(?) said the call was upheld because the replay did not show the entire route and the offensive player may have pushed the defender off prior to what was seen on the video.  I always thought the official that made the call should be part of the review process.  They know what they saw or think they did and it either matches the video replay or doesn't.

 

Never mind.  Already covered.  The point about the flag out of the pocket is a definitive.  The call was made on something that occurred well before the ball arrived.

Edited August 24, 2019 by JESSEFEFFER

[Beast]

Coaching was good. They clearly wanted to work on the running game and stuck to it.

 

I really like what they have built with this staff.

[MAJBobby]

Hated how they just handed the ball off over and over and only passed on obvious passing downs allowing Defense to just T off against Josh. 

 

I get if they wanted to work the Run game but in that case just put Barkley under center and sit Josh rather than risk Injury. 

[Warcodered]

5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I get that. What I'm saying is I don't think I ever want to see that in a real game environment. Barring of course a 6 minuter clock run out.

Definitely I think that's really the only time a scheme like that is warranted or makes sense. At no other point does it make sense to let the defense know what's coming like that.

[Buffalophil1948]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Hated how they just handed the ball off over and over and only passed on obvious passing downs allowing Defense to just T off against Josh. 

 

I get if they wanted to work the Run game but in that case just put Barkley under center and sit Josh rather than risk Injury. 

I really have no problem with it. They clearly wanted to work on the run game. The first two games was all about working on short and intermediate passing game. Shady and gore need to get into a rhythm as well as the online. The miss direction handoff to McKenzie was a thing of beauty  and that kind of timing needs to be practiced.  Having a strong running game is the best thing in the development of JA.

[jkeerie]

I posted this elsewhere but it's best moved here since we are talking about coaching.

 

We have to remember that these coaches have a plan to which they have stuck throughout preseason and the games.  They are all into evaluating their team and schemes, but also individual players.  We are so used to Bills coaches just trotting out there and playing and seeing what they have versus setting things up so that they can get a better evaluation.  That's what yesterday was.  Not the "dress rehearsal" we've seen from teams in the past, but rather experimenting with player combinations and schemes to better evaluate those players.  Didn't McD say all week when talking about the wide receiver battle they need to see what else they do...particularly blocking?  So yesterday was all about blocking for the running game.  I also think yesterday they were evaluating different players on special teams, hence, the Bills looked out of sorts in that area yesterday. 

 

When you think of it, they have 90 guys and only 53 roster spots...precious commodities.  In addition to having to strategically keep as many players in various positions for rotational or injury purposes, you also need to see what else players can do so that a roster spot isn't just given to a player who plays special teams only.  Last year, they scrounged for 53 players that could play...period.  This year, they have choices to make which will be extremely difficult, as we finally have quality and depth.  

 

As much as we found last night's game to be more difficult to watch than the previous two, the coaches were busy seeing and evaluating so that we field the best team possible.

[CLTbills]

5 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

Riveron(?) said the call was upheld because the replay did not show the entire route and the offensive player may have pushed the defender off prior to what was seen on the video.  I always thought the official that made the call should be part of the review process.  They know what they saw or think they did and it either matches the video replay or doesn't.

 

Never mind.  Already covered.  The point about the flag out of the pocket is a definitive.  The call was made on something that occurred well before the ball arrived.

Honestly, the official is pulling his flag out when they're both in the air. But I'm on board if there was OPI earlier in the route.

But did you see the second play in that clip I posted? They overturned something that clearly wasn't pass interference, and wasn't called as such, and turned it INTO pass interference. It's absolutely absurd. This nonsense is going to be more maddening than the initial blown calls. When they go to replay, and make an even more outrageous decision than what we saw in real time.