Who to draft on Day 2

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I hate the term "generational" talent. That said, Larry Fitz is a generational talent. He has a produced at a high level for a prolonged period of time, under incredibly tough circumstances, like almost no one before him has.  Tyreek Hill is a one hit wonder and about to be out of the NFL.  While Larry is getting inducted into the hall of fame, Hill will be an afterthought on KC message boards. 

You might be right about Hill’s future career, but Larry Fitz has never been as good as Tyreek Hill is right now.  In three seasons, he’s been first team all-pro more times than Fitz in his entire career.  If Fitz is a “generational talent”, then that awful phrase has no meaning whatsoever.

[Yav]

Bring on GREEDY. He would be great opposite White and he's got the best name for a corner of all time. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

You might be right about Hill’s future career, but Larry Fitz has never been as good as Tyreek Hill is right now.  In three seasons, he’s been first team all-pro more times than Fitz in his entire career.  If Fitz is a “generational talent”, then that awful phrase has no meaning whatsoever.

 

I feel like I am arguing with a flat earth-er. This is one of the wildest takes I have ever read on this board. 

[mannc]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I feel like I am arguing with a flat earth-er. This is one of the wildest takes I have ever read on this board. 

Really, which part of it?

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, Yav said:

Bring on GREEDY. He would be great opposite White and he's got the best name for a corner of all time. 

...and he is averse to tackling.  ?

[DCOrange]

My guess would be that they sit back at 40 and let a good player fall to them, though I think I've made it pretty clear by now that I personally would want to move up for DK.

While my top 5 WRs are all still available, he's the only one that I think is a no-brainer starter from Day 1 (assuming his medicals have checked out) simply because there's no real competition as the X receiver. They can take someone like Deebo Samuel, who I personally have as the #2 WR in the draft, and he might be able to line up as the X, but he's on the smaller side as far as X's go and most seem to think he makes more sense in the slot where he'd be competing with Beasley and Zay for playing time. Likewise for AJ Brown, who isn't in my top 5, but very well may be in Buffalo's.

At the end of the day, guys that without diving into it too much would seemingly fit needs are (in order of their draft grade on NFL.com:
1. Jawaan Taylor
2. DK
3. Greedy
4. Parris Campbell
5. AJ Brown
6. Cody Ford
7. Dalton Risner
8. Deebo Samuel
9. Byron Murphy
10. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson
11. Irv Smith
12. Rock Ya-Sin
13. Greg Little
14. Juan Thornhill
15. Jaylon Ferguson

Guys in bold are the ones that I think at least loosely would be a good fit, though like I mentioned, AJ Brown and Deebo aren't perfect fits the way DK is.

I would think that Buffalo is very, very high on Risner, Byron Murphy, Irv Smith, Rock Ya-Sin, and Jaylon Ferguson in particular. I don't think we should really be taking a corner this high, but Murphy and Rock are basically perfect fits for McDermott's defense so I don't think they can be written off.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Really, which part of it?

 

I've just never heard anyone suggest that Lary Fitz is not one of the greatest WRs in NFL history.  I have also never seen someone use all-pro selections as a metric for measuring greatness.  

2 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

So at his peak you would take Hill over Fitz?  I cannot believe that, I know its impossible to compare but if Fitz had Mahomes from day 1 he'd have over 30k yards

 

That's the thing. Fitz had terrible QBs for the overwhelming majority of his career. There were exceptions of course, but it is amazing that he was able to get the production he did with the guys throwing him the ball. 

[BigPappy]

10 hours ago, CajunBillsBacker said:

A couple options I like are still there...

 

DK Metcalf, didn’t like him at 9, but we’re right around his value area now.

AJ Brown, my top receiver in the draft

Deebo Samuel

Dalton Risner

Jawaan Taylor, why is he still there?

 

Taylor is there from what I heard because of injury concern. But idk that for sure, it's what i read. I like the idea of Risner or AJ Brown.

[Logic]

I said this last night, but I think Bills fans need to prepare for the very real possibility that the 2nd round pick is spent on a DB.

They had Juan Thornhill and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson both in for visits. They also love Rock Ya-Sin and Byron Murphy.

McDermott wants to run the Big Nickel with someone better and more dangerous than Rafael Bush. Don't be shocked to hear a defensive back's name called tonight.

[BillsMafia13]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I've just never heard anyone suggest that Lary Fitz is not one of the greatest WRs in NFL history.  I have also never seen someone use all-pro selections as a metric for measuring greatness.  

 

That's the thing. Fitz had terrible QBs for the overwhelming majority of his career. There were exceptions of course, but it is amazing that he was able to get the production he did with the guys throwing him the ball. 

while its not fair to lean on a qb as a crutch, Fitz really did have terrible qbs for 15 years sans Warner. And he subjectively had the best hands in history. Generational might be pushing it but you can count the number of truly better WRs on JPP's hand during those years

[BuffaloRebound]

Expecting a Tackle or DB at pick 40.  That’s where the value is.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, BillsMafia13 said:

while its not fair to lean on a qb as a crutch, Fitz really did have terrible qbs for 15 years sans Warner. And he subjectively had the best hands in history. Generational might be pushing it but you can count the number of truly better WRs on JPP's hand during those years

 

I don't know, he has the second most yards for any WR in NFL history. Its not just the single year performances, its the prolonged period of success. 

[zevo]

23 minutes ago, iccrewman112 said:

 

To me he is Similar to Dez Bryant in that regard. Limited routes great size and strength.

This is exactly my comparison...he totally reminds me of dez....some don’t see it...but thats who i think of

[YoloinOhio]

 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Mort that's kind of a weird thing to think about when going to bed. Was Murphy wearing his open hoodie showing off his abs too? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, End The Drought said:

 

 

If they manage to pull it off it'll make me see this draft as a success.

[mannc]

20 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I've just never heard anyone suggest that Lary Fitz is not one of the greatest WRs in NFL history.  I have also never seen someone use all-pro selections as a metric for measuring greatness.  

 

That's the thing. Fitz had terrible QBs for the overwhelming majority of his career. There were exceptions of course, but it is amazing that he was able to get the production he did with the guys throwing him the ball. 

Fitz is probably a hall of famer, but I would not say he's one of the greatest WRs in NFL history.   

 

All-Pro selections aren't perfect, but for a position like WR, where performance is easier to quantify with statistics,  it's a pretty good metric for whether someone was considered one of the two best players in the game at his position, which should be the measure of whether a player was a "generational talent".  And Larry only made it one time.  In any given year, it seemed like there were always guys who were better:  Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss,  Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, etc.   In 2018, there wasn't a receiver in the league better than Tyreek Hill. 

 

What I objected to was your idea that Fitzgerald was on a different level than Tyreek Hill.  He clearly wasn't, although Hill's is unlikely to match Fitzgerald's career numbers because of his off-field problems.  It will be interesting to see how Hill's absence this season (if he doesn't play) will impact Mahomes.  I think it will be significant.  

 

Finally, the notion that Fitzgerald played with awful QBs is just not correct.  He played the majority of his career with either Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer as his QB.  There were some scrubs mixed in there too, but on the whole the Cardinals QBs were about average.    

 

   

 

  

[LabattBlue]

I’ve narrowed down my favorites for 40 to...

 

Murphy

Ford

Risner

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Dalton Risner at #40

Maxx Crosby at #74

[LabattBlue]

What are the negatives regarding Jaylon Ferguson?

[MTLBills]

I wouldnt be surprised if it ends up being Irv Smith or Dawson Knox at 40

[STLBills]

There are a TON of great prospects left on the board. The first round went great for us. 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if we traded up a few picks to make sure we land the guy we like. Can't be afraid to give up one of our later picks if you feel that strongly about a prospect. We've got decent depth. We need more big time players.

 

For me: DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel would be my favorites if they're there at 40. I'm a big believer in waiting for OL help til rounds 3-4. Take positions that require more skill in rounds 1-2 unless the prospect is just that good. I don't see an OL prospect that is worth taking over Metcalf or Samuel. There are good players at OL. Taking Risner or Ford wouldn't bother me much. However, I think a guy like Metcalf or Samuel would be perfect for us.

 

CB would be an interesting route to go. One underrated way to help Josh Allen is give him a top tier defense that keeps the game close and asks a little bit less of him. Like the Jags and Blake Bortles in 2017. Not comparing Allen to Bortles. Just pointing out how a defense can help a QB. Of course, the oft used example is Trent Dilfer and the Ravens.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

    I haven't seen this addressed, and am curious as to what others think. I'm under the impression that while college to pro transition is difficult, it is most difficult for OL and WR. (QB aside, as that is a whole different animal). It seems to me that the Bills were most active in signing FA's  this year in these two groups. Is it possible that they are willing to let other NFL teams be a training ground for their eventual WR's and OL, and they will concentrate their draft pix on position groups where the pix can make a much quicker contribution? I realize we had huge needs with these two groups, but perhaps draft strategy is affected by transition difficulty. Thoughts?

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

Metcalf

Ferguson

Brown

Smith

Taylor

Samuel

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Give me one of the Ole Miss guys, I could even take a TE. I just think secondary here, while enticing, is a luxury pick. We are strong in the secondary and at some point you got to help Allen alot more. 

[glazeduck]

11 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What are the negatives regarding Jaylon Ferguson?

Does not clear the baseline athletic scores typically conducive to NFL success at DE. Lack of competition. 

 

He ain't got it...

[LabattBlue]

Just now, glazeduck said:

Does not clear the baseline athletic scores typically conducive to NFL success at DE. Lack of competition. 

 

He ain't got it...

Is Winovich a better choice at 40 if they are looking for DL help?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

Fitz is probably a hall of famer, but I would not say he's one of the greatest WRs in NFL history.   

 

All-Pro selections aren't perfect, but for a position like WR, where performance is easier to quantify with statistics,  it's a pretty good metric for whether someone was considered one of the two best players in the game at his position, which should be the measure of whether a player was a "generational talent".  And Larry only made it one time.  In any given year, it seemed like there were always guys who were better:  Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss,  Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, etc.   In 2018, there wasn't a receiver in the league better than Tyreek Hill. 

 

What I objected to was your idea that Fitzgerald was on a different level than Tyreek Hill.  He clearly wasn't, although Hill's is unlikely to match Fitzgerald's career numbers because of his off-field problems.  It will be interesting to see how Hill's absence this season (if he doesn't play) will impact Mahomes.  I think it will be significant.  

 

Finally, the notion that Fitzgerald played with awful QBs is just not correct.  He played the majority of his career with either Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer as his QB.  There were some scrubs mixed in there too, but on the whole the Cardinals QBs were about average.    

 

   

 

  

 

In 15 years, Fitz had Warner for five years and Palmer for two years (Palmer was injured the other two years).  That leaves 8 years of terrible QB play. Beyond that, even when he had Warner throwing to him, he didn't have the benefit of the spread systems beings used by guys like Hill. 

 

I understand your point, and I don't think its unreasonable.  I just think longevity is as important, if not more important, as accomplishments in single seasons.  That is why "flash in the pan" guys are not remembered like perennial pro-bowlers.  Lots of guys can have a good season or two.  Generational talents can do it over the course of a decade. 

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Is Winovich a better choice at 40 if they are looking for DL help?

Better being the operative word. Not sure he'll ever be a high-end starter though. 

I don't think DE is the spot to focus on here (or possibly at all, in this draft), but if we look later, a guy like Crosby, Ximines or Joe Jackson probably makes the most sense.

[Rufridr101]

When has a team won a Superbowl with a superstar receiver? I promise it's better to have dominant offensive line play with competent receivers.  

3 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

Better being the operative word. Not sure he'll ever be a high-end starter though. 

I don't think DE is the spot to focus on here (or possibly at all, in this draft), but if we look later, a guy like Crosby, Ximines or Joe Jackson probably makes the most sense.

Don't sleep on Austin Bryant 

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

In 15 years, Fitz had Warner for five years and Palmer for two years (Palmer was injured the other two years).  That leaves 8 years of terrible QB play. Beyond that, even when he had Warner throwing to him, he didn't have the benefit of the spread systems beings used by guys like Hill. 

 

I understand your point, and I don't think its unreasonable.  I just think longevity is as important, if not more important, as accomplishments in single seasons.  That is why "flash in the pan" guys are not remembered like perennial pro-bowlers.  Lots of guys can have a good season or two.  Generational talents can do it over the course of a decade. 

All good.  Fitz has had a long and outstanding career.  Hill has been brilliant so far, but it's been only three seasons.  And of course, they are two very different types of receivers, which makes the comparison even tougher.  Both are supremely talented. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by mannc

[Toesy]

It is interesting-the Bills are ranked really low-#27-on 2020 SB odds-but looking at the roster the team looks really deep-the only two positions I can see where you would expect the second round pick to be a day one starter is CB and OG. Even WR has Brown, Beasley, Jones and Foster-I wouldn't necessarily expect Metcalf to automatically start day one. Obviously I am a fan and I cannot see the problems because the lineup looks good overall IMO.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

If Tytus Howard was available he would be the pick so I'm wondering if Greg Little is in play here

[Bakin]

At 40 - take OL Dalton Risner

At 61 - take WR Hakeem Butler (trading our 74 and 112)

 

though I believe Risner will go before 40...

Edited April 26, 2019 by Bakin

[freddyjj]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What are the negatives regarding Jaylon Ferguson?

Here is Scouting Report.  Not a bender, very upright and limited moves in pass rush.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaylon-ferguson?id=32194645-5216-8492-efe9-dfa1a1176b99

[glazeduck]

6 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

When has a team won a Superbowl with a superstar receiver? I promise it's better to have dominant offensive line play with competent receivers.   

 

I think the "when has X ever won a super bowl" deal is really outplayed... Just a couple years ago it was always defense wins championships, and yet now there are 50 point per game offenses in the playoffs every year. The league is evolving into one of exploiting mismatches, regardless of position... DK -- especially with Josh Allen throwing to him, offers that. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Don't sleep on Austin Bryant 

Waaay later, sure.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

If Tytus Howard was available he would be the pick so I'm wondering if Greg Little is in play here

I would think Cody Ford would be in play here, too, but I suspect Arizona will be sorely tempted to use pick 33 to re-unite him with Kyler. 

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s why I’m all in on DK at this point. He COULD be a 1. He might stink but he could be a 1. Everyone else is a 2 or below IMO. We have bodies at the position. I want a swing at a potential star.

Don't forget to factor in that everyone at New Era will use pregame festivities to at least drink DK pretty by game time - if need be!

[Yav]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

...and he is averse to tackling.  ?

I think the Bills can work with him on that, kid can cover and if he can be a shut down guy thats just as good as tackling.