Daniel Jeremiah - Jonah Williams is someone to watch

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’d have to trust that they know what they are doing.  Sure, he is a good prospect, but it doesn’t seem like he is a great prospect.  The line would project as a good C, an old career backup T and 3 guys who should be G.

 

I should say that in general I am OK with taking a good solid prospect at 9 - doesn’t have to be a swing for the fences guy to make me happy, but I think there have to be equivalent or better prospects available at more important positions than G.

 

I get that he might be capable of playing T, but do you really need two guys (Dawkins and Williams) that likely should be Gs playing OT?

 

 

No particular reason to think Dawkins is a G playing OT. He played very well at tackle as a rookie and thinks he knows the problems he had last year. He could easily play very well at tackle.

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No particular reason to think Dawkins is a G playing OT. He played very well at tackle as a rookie and thinks he knows the problems he had last year. He could easily play very well at tackle.

I agree that Dawkins could play well at T - as Jonah Williams might also, but many thought that Dawkins would be better suited inside and many think the same about Williams.  That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't play T, but with the 9th pick I would hope that they can find a player who better fits the desired height, weight, strength, quickness than Williams does for OT.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Not sure how many people listen to Daniel Jeremiah's podcast, but he dropped the nugget about the Bills "I have heard from a ton of different people, Jonah Williams is someone to watch there."

 

Just thought I would let people know.

 

Here is his last mock of 2018:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928661/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-40-browns-pick-baker-mayfield-no-1

 

Had the Bills trading up for Josh Allen

 

Would be nice in a trade down.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I really don't like him at 9, however, if Daboll thinks he is the guy, having coached him and seen him first hand, I can't argue with it. If you take him, I think you make the Zach Martin move and plug him at right guard. He's likely an all pro quickly there. I think Williams is the level of guard prospect, but I just don't like it at 9.  

 

Quentin Nelson went 6 overall to the colts and kid is a star pro bowler.

 

 

[Max Fischer]

9 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't think that anyone really believes that his floor is perennial AP anything.

 

The only way he makes sense at 9 is if they see him as a future LT, so maybe there's something to that 

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

[Max Fischer]

8 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Yeah...Quentin Nelson was a huge reach...

 

Oh, my.

 

Name how many great guards the Bills have had over the past 15 years. 

 

Now recall the guards during Super Bowl years. 

 

I truly don’t understand the unproductive bias fans have toward guards, cornerbacks and the kicking game. The first people to run screaming to the board to complain about those positions. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don't hate OL or TE if the elite DL are off the board. 

 

OL, DL, and fans will hate this, CB are positions you can never have enough good players. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by TheTruthHurts

[OldTimer1960]

33 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

I believe that OL is important, but I believe that that both OT positions are harder to fill and require better players than G.  I also don't think the comparison of Jonah Williams to Zach Martin is a good one.  Martin is much stronger and more powerful than Williams. 

 

I know that you can't necessarily judge a football player by how their body looks, but at the Combine Williams' body didn't look like a top athlete and he didn't really measure or test as one, either.

Edited April 10, 2019 by OldTimer1960

[eball]

13 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Not sure how many people listen to Daniel Jeremiah's podcast, but he dropped the nugget about the Bills "I have heard from a ton of different people, Jonah Williams is someone to watch there."

 

Just thought I would let people know.

 

Here is his last mock of 2018:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928661/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-40-browns-pick-baker-mayfield-no-1

 

Had the Bills trading up for Josh Allen

 

I believe I saw something last year that ranked the mock drafters and while they're all notoriously bad, Jeremiah consistently had the best results.  The guy seems to be connected and/or knows what he's talking about.

[thebandit27]

54 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

I disagree pretty strongly with this because prior to last season, Luck was a sack magnet and the team couldn’t run the ball well consistently. Last season he was the least sacked qb in the league and the team ran the ball well. The upshot: Indy had its best ranking in team offensive DVOA in Luck’s entire career there. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by dave mcbride

[CIrvine]

Tua throws left.  Shouldn't we be looking at Alabama's RT?

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

FWIW, I completely agree with this whole point.  IF they felt with strong conviction that Williams' would very likely be a multi-time Pro Bowl G, then I don't think that many would complain about selecting him at 9.  However, G is not a premium position (not to say it isn't important), and is not as hard to fill as other positions.

 

From my vantage point, I don't think that Williams is a guaranteed pro bowler at G.  I see a guy who excelled against the best college competition, but is undersized and under powered for OT and likely G as well.  Can his skill set overcome those limitations?  Can he get stronger/more powerful?  

 

I just wonder if he has maxed out his potential.  He's refined his techniques and has the right attitude (reportedly).  I do think that he will likely be a good starting OL in the NFL - more likely at G, but possibly also at T.  I don't think the team that drafts him will view him as a weak link that they are trying to replace, but I don't think either that he is going to step into the NFL and be a dominating player.

 

I would be happy to have Jonah Williams on the Bills, but I think that there will be better options than him available at pick 9.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

FWIW, I completely agree with this whole point.  IF they felt with strong conviction that Williams' would very likely be a multi-time Pro Bowl G, then I don't think that many would complain about selecting him at 9.  However, G is not a premium position (not to say it isn't important), and is not as hard to fill as other positions.

 

From my vantage point, I don't think that Williams is a guaranteed pro bowler at G.  I see a guy who excelled against the best college competition, but is undersized and under powered for OT and likely G as well.  Can his skill set overcome those limitations?  Can he get stronger/more powerful?  

 

I just wonder if he has maxed out his potential.  He's refined his techniques and has the right attitude (reportedly).  I do think that he will likely be a good starting OL in the NFL - more likely at G, but possibly also at T.  I don't think the team that drafts him will view him as a weak link that they are trying to replace, but I don't think either that he is going to step into the NFL and be a dominating player.

 

I would be happy to have Jonah Williams on the Bills, but I think that there will be better options than him available at pick 9.

Good stuff. You guys nailed it. Only thing I’d change is that I wouldn’t be happy with Jonah on the Bills. He is going in the first round, even if they traded back I could name 32 other guys I’d rather take a swing with. 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Quentin Nelson went 6 overall to the colts and kid is a star pro bowler.

 

 

 

I understand this and people have said this about a hundred times on here. Jonah Williams is nowhere near the prospect that Nelson was. Not even close. Ill do an SAT analogy here. Jonah Williams is to Quentin Nelson as Shaq Lawson is to Khalil Mack. That's what we are talking about here. Williams in the top ten is a huge reach. Nelson was a plug and play dominator at the position. Williams has a better chance of being Luke Joeckel than he does of being Nelson. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said:

I keep seeing people say this.

 

There are two options for Dawkins: Left Tackle, or Left Guard.  He absolutely cannot play on the right side.

Isnt Nsekhe bad at RT as well. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Not the sexiest pick but he's a 10 year quality starter. I wouldn't B word one bit.

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I disagree pretty strongly with this because prior to last season, Luck was a sack magnet and the team couldn’t run the ball well consistently. Last season he was the least sacked qb in the league and the team ran the ball well. The upshot: Indy had its best ranking in team offensive DVOA in Luck’s entire career there. 

 

The OL as a whole was night and day for sure.

 

Nelson was a big component of that, but so too was 2nd round guard-turned-tackle Braden Smith, street FA Mark Glowinski, and Ryan Kelly's return to health.

 

And I know you recognize this, but would that OL and RB group have been the driving force of a 10-win team with Jacoby Brissett under center?

 

No doubt guard is important, and with the growth of the interior pass rusher types like Donald, Cox, and Chris Jones, it's hardly a "just throw this sub par OT or larger-than-average center in there" affair to fill the spots.

 

I simply don't think it's the difference-making position that would impel me to draft one in the top 10. Not when we see the best OG in football hit the open market in 2 of the last 3 offseasons.

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Isnt Nsekhe bad at RT as well. 

 

Nobody knows. And people who claim they do are full of it. He has started just 16 NFL games and is 33 years old. He has played both positions and guard. He, Nsekhe, said in an interview somewhere that he prefers to play the left side, which is what every single tackle in the world would say because that is the money position and where the better player plays. If he said he prefers the right side, he sounds like a loser. 

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Nobody knows. And people who claim they do are full of it. He has started just 16 NFL games and is 33 years old. He has played both positions and guard. He, Nsekhe, said in an interview somewhere that he prefers to play the left side, which is what every single tackle in the world would say because that is the money position and where the better player plays. If he said he prefers the right side, he sounds like a loser. 

There are SO many factors that go into OL performance - Scheme, coaching, cohesion of unit, Center play, QB play (remember Daboll’s comment that some of the sacks were on Josh last year), etc etc that it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard everytime I see someone claim Nsekhe can’t play on the right or Dawkins can’t play on the right or Dawkins should be a guard.... we saw Dawkins for a very small sample size at RT which was his first action as a rookie and next to crap at RG. Nsekhe and Waddle can both technically play either side ... I’m not saying that any LT can play RT but I don’t see anything definitive that our LTs won’t be able to. There are a ton of changes on this OL and it will be a big time process putting it all together but perhaps with huge dividends and I don’t lock anyone out of any role on the OL just yet. Only spot locked up is starting C. Ok rant over. It just grinds my gears. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[MrEpsYtown]

Here's some info on Dion Dawkins. He started at left tackle for Temple for three years. His true freshmen year he started a couple of game at left and right tackle. His sophomore-senior year he started at left tackle exclusively. At the senior bowl he played really great at both guard spots and and also played really well at left tackle. Pre Draft, people felt he was best at guard. Not sure why though...all his measurables, 3 cone, and super longs arms point to tackle. Anyway, his rookie year, he got thrown into the guard spot for like 6 plays and was good. He played left tackle the rest of the way. In his rookie training camp, he took mostly right tackle reps and did not look great. He took left tackle reps too, and did not look great. The bottom line is that he looked pretty terrible in rookie camp and struggled all around in terms of trying to implement the techniques that Juan Castillo was teaching. It was not until he was thrust into a game at left tackle that he showed what he could do. 

• So he played really well at left tackle his rookie year, good enough for this regime to trade Cordy Glenn. 
• He played really well at guard at the senior bowl, both right and left guard. He also played left tackle there. 
• He looked terrible in training camp his rookie year, wherever he was put. 
• He has played a little bit on the right side. Most of his experience is at left tackle. 
• He might be better at guard than he is a left tackle, but he has not proven that he can't play left tackle. There is more evidence that he can, than there is evidence that he can't. 
• Juan Castillo's techniques forced him to re-learn everything he learned for four years at Temple, so a new line coach likely does a lot for him. 
• His arm length and other measures say he should be a left tackle. (His arms are longer than Williams, Dillard, guys like that )
• The idea that he can't play the right side of the line is simply not true
• He himself is going to say that he wants to be a left tackle. Like I said above, he should not want to move off the $$$$ position and he deserves an opportunity to prove himself before he is moved. 

[Max Fischer]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I believe that OL is important, but I believe that that both OT positions are harder to fill and require better players than G.  I also don't think the comparison of Jonah Williams to Zach Martin is a good one.  Martin is much stronger and more powerful than Williams. 

 

I know that you can't necessarily judge a football player by how their body looks, but at the Combine Williams' body didn't look like a top athlete and he didn't really measure or test as one, either.

 

You're right, you can't judge a player by how they look. Likewise, there are many guards who "fit the profile" much better than a Zach Martin but are nowhere near as good.  Jonah Williams is a case in point.  He's a great because he a superior football player, he understand the game more than most, where to be, how to play, etc. He is off-the-charts technical player who uses his leverage perfectly, which means he can play much "heavier" than those 25-75 pounds bigger, which also provides him outstanding versatility.  What's intriguing is that evaluators believe Williams can get much, much better.  

[Max Fischer]

59 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I understand this and people have said this about a hundred times on here. Jonah Williams is nowhere near the prospect that Nelson was. Not even close. Ill do an SAT analogy here. Jonah Williams is to Quentin Nelson as Shaq Lawson is to Khalil Mack. That's what we are talking about here. Williams in the top ten is a huge reach. Nelson was a plug and play dominator at the position. Williams has a better chance of being Luke Joeckel than he does of being Nelson. 

 

Talk about reach. No one thought Shaq Lawson was an instant plug-and -play, instant 10-year starter with perennial all-pro potential.  Good yes, but not a major talent. Nelson is indeed a special player but Williams could easily be start at OT or G, and could be an all-pro guard by Year 2.  

[Johnny Hammersticks]

3 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Talk about reach. No one thought Shaq Lawson was an instant plug-and -play, instant 10-year starter with perennial all-pro potential.  Good yes, but not a major talent. Nelson is indeed a special player but Williams could easily be start at OT or G, and could be an all-pro guard by Year 2.  

 

Funny.  You appear to be the only one projecting Jonah to be an “instant plug and play, instant 10 year starter with perennial all-pro potential.”  Where are you getting this from?

[Max Fischer]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Funny.  You appear to be the only one projecting Jonah to be an “instant plug and play, instant 10 year starter with perennial all-pro potential.”  Where are you getting this from?

 

Who isn't?

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Talk about reach. No one thought Shaq Lawson was an instant plug-and -play, instant 10-year starter with perennial all-pro potential.  Good yes, but not a major talent. Nelson is indeed a special player but Williams could easily be start at OT or G, and could be an all-pro guard by Year 2.  

 

This is revisionist history. Pre draft Shaq Lawson was compared to Tamba Hali and Brian Orakpo, a powerful, dominating edge player. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

9 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Who isn't?

 

Common man!  Post a link of any scout or “draft expert” who has Jonah tabbed as a perennial all-pro NFL guard.  I’ll wait...

[Max Fischer]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

This is revisionist history. Pre draft Shaq Lawson was compared to Tamba Hali and Brian Orakpo, a powerful, dominating edge player. 

 

Oh boy. I don't recall at any time Shaq was considered a Top 10 player, let alone potential Top 5. I'm not trying to "build up" Jonah Williams because any 10 minute search will have top draft evaluators saying he's an extremely gifted offensive lineman.  There is no doubt he'd instantly be the best guard and very likely to win either tackle position. All of which are immediate and long-term needs.  

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Common man!  Post a link of any scout or “draft expert” who has Jonah tabbed as a perennial all-pro NFL guard.  I’ll wait...

 

Will you take "franchise?"  Would that make you feel better? 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Oh boy. I don't recall at any time Shaq was considered a Top 10 player, let alone potential Top 5. I'm not trying to "build up" Jonah Williams because any 10 minute search will have top draft evaluators saying he's an extremely gifted offensive lineman.  There is no doubt he'd instantly be the best guard and very likely to win either tackle position. All of which are immediate and long-term needs.  

 

Will you take "franchise?"  Would that make you feel better? 

 

Dude, you’re making Jonah Williams sound like Quenton Nelson.  The latter was pretty much universally regarded at a top 5-7 pick and a generational interior lineman.  Just stop.

[thebandit27]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Dude, you’re making Jonah Williams sound like Quenton Nelson.  The latter was pretty much universally regarded at a top 5-7 pick and a generational interior lineman.  Just stop.

 

A page ago, the same poster said that Jonah's FLOOR was a perennial all pro guard.

 

I think perhaps that the poster is just prone to hyperbole 

[MrEpsYtown]

29 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Oh boy. I don't recall at any time Shaq was considered a Top 10 player, let alone potential Top 5. I'm not trying to "build up" Jonah Williams because any 10 minute search will have top draft evaluators saying he's an extremely gifted offensive lineman.  There is no doubt he'd instantly be the best guard and very likely to win either tackle position. All of which are immediate and long-term needs.  

 

I don't want to create an argument here, but this is simply not true. Most mock drafts had Shaq in that 5-15 range, which is where people are projecting Jonah right now. From what I remember the Browns were popular mock spot. I think my comparison, or analogy is the right one. I think Williams is few notches below Zach Martin as a guard (who went 15 or 16 iI believe) and I think he is basically Riley Reiff if he plays tackle. I think he can be a very good guard. I think that there may be some potential big time defensive players there at 9 and taking Williams at nine is a reach imo. The talent you are passing on to plug a possible 10 year guard in is just bad drafting. I think he goes in the 15-25 range. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

The OL as a whole was night and day for sure.

 

Nelson was a big component of that, but so too was 2nd round guard-turned-tackle Braden Smith, street FA Mark Glowinski, and Ryan Kelly's return to health.

 

And I know you recognize this, but would that OL and RB group have been the driving force of a 10-win team with Jacoby Brissett under center?

 

No doubt guard is important, and with the growth of the interior pass rusher types like Donald, Cox, and Chris Jones, it's hardly a "just throw this sub par OT or larger-than-average center in there" affair to fill the spots.

 

I simply don't think it's the difference-making position that would impel me to draft one in the top 10. Not when we see the best OG in football hit the open market in 2 of the last 3 offseasons.

I agree that Luck was huge, but I'm also of a mind that an elite guard can make a huge difference. Just look at the Dallas situation. Zack Martin (plus other good o-line players, to be sure) helped a mediocre back - DeMarco Murray - produce one of the best RB seasons in NFL history, and that running game made a good passing attack elite (Romo had a rating of 113.2 that season). I'm not saying Williams is that player, mind you. I just am skeptical of much of the conventional wisdom about "elite positions" outside of QB (and yes, I know Luck makes all the difference). Everyone talks about the importance of great edge players, but the most dominating d-linemen these days are guys like Fletcher Cox and Aaron Donald, not Justin Houston. Who is gonna block them?

Edited April 10, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

A page ago, the same poster said that Jonah's FLOOR was a perennial all pro guard.

 

I think perhaps that the poster is just prone to hyperbole 

The thing that makes me laugh about draft season is that none of us know a damn thing.

We all have opinions based on maybe having watched a few college games, maybe a few Youtube highlights, maybe reading a writeup about his measurables. WE'RE ALL JUST GUESSING!

So when one person laughs off another's draft prognostication (i.e. mildly educated guess) because it doesn't match THEIR mildly educated guess, it makes me laugh.

We're all just guessing. None of us know. If we knew, we wouldn't just be chatting on a message board, we'd be collecting a paycheck from an NFL team.

Williams' floor could be "out of the league in three years" or it could be "Pro Bowl guard". None of us know. 

[Max Fischer]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

 

I know you are just trying to score points, but the key word you (of course mistakenly) omitted was "potential" perennial all-pro guard.  Which he does.  Williams would easily be the best guard in the class.  

 

 

[Logic]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

I don't believe this to be true. The best comparison for Jonah Williams, in my mind, is Zack Martin. Both were quality college tackles who were deemed not to have the size to stay at tackle in the NFL.

Here are scouting reports for each:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/zack-martin?id=2543480

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams?id=32195749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

Martin was projected as an early to mid 1st rounder and, lo and behold, he was drafted 16th. He has made 5 Pro Bowls.

Williams likely will ALSO be drafted in the teens. He, similarly to Martin DOES have the capacity to be a perennial Pro Bowl guard. If the word you have a problem with is "floor", then fine. Technically, any drafted player's floor is "total bust, out of the league". My PREDICTION (which I admit is as likely to be wrong as any other fan's prediction) is that his floor is Pro Bowl guard. It's not as if I pulled that out of my ass. Read just about anyone's scouting report on the guy. No one really seems to believe in him as a tackle, but just about everyone seems to believe he's OG1 in this draft and has the potential to be excellent inside.

[Max Fischer]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I don't want to create an argument here, but this is simply not true. Most mock drafts had Shaq in that 5-15 range, which is where people are projecting Jonah right now. From what I remember the Browns were popular mock spot. I think my comparison, or analogy is the right one. I think Williams is few notches below Zach Martin as a guard (who went 15 or 16 iI believe) and I think he is basically Riley Reiff if he plays tackle. I think he can be a very good guard. I think that there may be some potential big time defensive players there at 9 and taking Williams at nine is a reach imo. The talent you are passing on to plug a possible 10 year guard in is just bad drafting. I think he goes in the 15-25 range. 

 

I guess we'll see but the point of all this was the dismissal of Jonah Williams as a Bills pick at #9 and somehow that would be a mistake. Personally, I would like Ed Oliver but would be thrilled to get the best technically sound offensive linemen in the draft, who could easily be on upgrade at tackle and certainly at guard.  He has the potential to be a solid to outstanding player for a decade.

 

If he plays at guard, fine, but it would no longer be a team weakness. He'd likely be the best guard the Bills have had in many years, and if guards we so easy to find in Rounds 3-7, then someone explain why are so many teams desperate for at least average guard play and why teams spend so much on just "good" free agents.

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

 

I simply don't think it's the difference-making position that would impel me to draft one in the top 10. Not when we see the best OG in football hit the open market in 2 of the last 3 offseasons.

I think that this is at least partially because it costs the same amount to apply the franchise tag to a Guard as it does to tag a Tackle. Am I correct?

 

Imo having a very good Guard at a bargain price for 5 years is a great thing. That said, #9 could be a bit early. I guess that much depends on the quality of the draft. Imo this one is quite average. How about you?

[RyanC883]

I don't see it happening.  And the OP's mock draft, it indicates the Bills will "take a Josh, just not sure which one."   Well, since those were arguably the top 2 QB's left after Mayfield and Darnold were taken, and the Bills were known to be QB hunting, it didn't take much for him to mock Allen to us.  

[thebandit27]

16 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

If his floor is perrenial all-pro right guard, what’s not to love?

 

40 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

I know you are just trying to score points, but the key word you (of course mistakenly) omitted was "potential" perennial all-pro guard.  Which he does.  Williams would easily be the best guard in the class.  

 

 

 

I have no interest in impressing anyone, so you might want to re-think what you "know" about my purpose in posting here.  See above-quote post.

 

As for Williams being easily the best guard in the class, well, I'm not so sure that's true.  Personally, I think he's a far better fit at center than he is at guard. I'm not sure he's got the anchorage to hold up against the stouter DTs, nor the hand-speed to beat the Fletcher Cox-type hand-fighting quick DTs. To me, if I'm expecting an all-pro guard from a guy, he needs to be able to handle those dudes 1-on-1.  As a center, he can put his exceptional technique and play-recognition to much greater use, while still relying on his neighbor to assist him in combo blocks to hide some of his athletic shortcomings.

[purple haze]

9 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Skins fans are the last ones you should listen to. If there ever was a block o' morons, they qualify.

 

I'm well acquainted with Skins fans.  Have a couple in the family.  They can get real delusional about the team as a whole, but they are all about that football.  They are ride or die with the Skins.  From listening and reading Nsekeh excels at LT.  Isn't as good at RT.  Same as what some around here say about Dawkins.  We shall see soon enough.