AAF in serious danger of folding. UPDATE: AAF Suspends ALL Operations!

[RobbRiddick]

Tom Dundon is obviously a very smart businessman, why would he invest all that money into something only to scrap it so soon? The answer: the in-game betting app tech, which he now owns the rights to. 

 

Apparently it's still not been perfected, but he owns the patent, and with so many places allowing legalised gambling now and in the future, whoever gets a foot in the door first will make billions from it.

 

As for the AAF folding, you just have to have the connection in some way to NFL teams. Whether that's expanding the draft and adding extra rounds for developmental guys so that fans of the NFL follow the guys who could be in training camp with their 'real' team come August, or the high school player idea that's been put around.

 

Imagine if each NFL team had the rights to a few really promising graduates that ditched going to college and went to a pro league instead to earn some cash and learn a pro style game under former NFL coaches. Are you telling me you wouldn't at least keep up to date with news of how the Bills players were doing? I know I would. Even if I wasn't watching every snap of every game, I'd be reading articles, Googling the league etc. and all that plays a part in showing how much interest people have.

 

They showed a chart in one article that illustrated how the interest on Twitter etc for the AAF have dive bombed after the first few weeks, peaking a little when Johnny Ball came to play, but that's just not enough.

 

You also need to at least sustain the league for a few years to create loyalty and tradition among the fans. Those are two of the most important things with sports. No one has any connection to something that's new, so you need patience to develop that.

 

To my above point, if the Bills had some HS grads or college guys from an expanded draft in the league, or primarily with one specific team then obviously that's the team I would follow. If even one of those guys tore up the league and then ended up being a decent player for the Bills then I'd be excited to see which players we had in the following season, which means I'd watch the other league's team more, which means I now have 2 years worth of history and memories watching them, and so on.

 

There were 8 teams in the AAF, how about this: each team is filled with players from  expanded NFL rosters that come via an expanded NFL draft. 8 teams in the league, 8 divisions in the NFL. You could have each team essentially representing a division from the NFL, so one would contain Jets, Bills, Pats and Dolphins. OF course, many fans wouldn't want to cheer any team that had future Pats or Jets or Phins on it, so instead you could have each team being a mix of 4 NFL teams from different divisions, related to conference. So team 1 is Bills, Steelers, Chiefs and Titans. Team 2 is Bengals, Jets, Jags and Chargers, and so on.

 

Flawed I'm sure, but if I had to come up with a successful spring league and funds were tight, that's what I would do. 

[Mr. WEO]

I'm dumbfounded that anyone is dumbfounded by this predictable development.

 

They have no paying network contracts---they may have been paying networks to put these games on.

 

Every other pro football league (except, amazingly Arena) has failed, gone broke.

 

Americans love them some football.  They are crazy for youth ball, HS, NCAA and the NFL.  Yet despite this, they have consistently shown that they are not interested on minor league pro football (who on earth thinks that the ratings would go up if HS students started showing up on the rosters??) This league is financed essentially by one guy---and for what amounts to (not for him maybe) chump change.

 

Fools and their money are soon parted---this was a dumb idea before it was announced.  It was a dumb idea when the XFL folded after 1 season 18 years ago!

 

The NFL has no natural interest in supporting this league.  It would only cost them money and they currently get nearly all of their players "developed" for free by the NCAA in a way that suits them just fine. People have to let this go.  The NFL is unique in that it has swallowed up every other pro sports league in popularity without a "minor league".  Why would anyone change this system?  Why would the owners change this wildly successful system as it is>

 

Crazy talk.

[MAJBobby]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

A million a year??  For a league that won't last 2 years?  No...a 5 star recruit is going to go to a top NCAA program and then get drafted into the NFl--that will always be their thinking.  

 

So 30 guys get a million a year, then they have to pay the other 500 guys.  If they get only 250K a year, that means the league will have a player payroll of $155 million per year.  Plus all of their other expenses.  

 

Nope.  Let it go.  No one wants to watch anyway.  The ratings are non-existent.  They won't get better with HS grads getting the most money.  Who would ever watch that?  lol

 

 

Stop!  There is no chance he would have been tempted to join a minor league football team.

 

You need to let it go.

 

What are the Ratings in the HS All star Games?  How would NCAA ratings hold and the same players not pull ratings. 

 

Heck  I look at the Last a chance U ratings. Growth will be there for a league that wants to waive the 3 years removed from High school. That is where the AAF messed up. They didn’t want to piss off NFL or NFLPA because they were hoping for a merger. 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

What are the Ratings in the HS All star Games?  How would NCAA ratings hold and the same players not pull ratings. 

 

Heck  I look at the Last a chance U ratings. Growth will be there for a league that wants to waive the 3 years removed from High school. That is where the AAF messed up. They didn’t want to piss off NFL or NFLPA because they were hoping for a merger. 

 

 

 

 

Texas HS playoff games were getting 19k.  But that's not the point.  HS are regionally popular.  No one is going to pay to see a HS player in a minor league football game.

 

When did you conclude that the AAF was doomed because they didn't allow guys out of HS?  I don't remember you predicting this outcome in the other thread.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Shoot, I was hoping to see the AAF draft hats...☹️

[MAJBobby]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Texas HS playoff games were getting 19k.  But that's not the point.  HS are regionally popular.  No one is going to pay to see a HS player in a minor league football game.

 

When did you conclude that the AAF was doomed because they didn't allow guys out of HS?  I don't remember you predicting this outcome in the other thread.

I didn't predict their outcome.  

 

Their Strategy was obviously flawed (everything they did would have needed the NFL and NFLPA) - they started hoping for a quick merger with the NFL, it didnt happen.

 

XFL however is taking a different route as reported, they will not look at going against or needing the NFL players with taking kids right out of HS.  Instead they are putting themselves in a market space of not competing with or needing the NFL or NFLPA. Instead leveraging themselves to be a secondary option to NCAA.  And because of that positioning I think they have a better chance to succeed.  They will need a legit TV contract (but Vince does have more "ins" in that world).  

 

Thats all I am saying is for these start up leagues to really succeed they have to tap into the currently untapped resource and that is the kids leaving HS.  There is traction there with more and more out there that these kids should be getting paid.  They stand a better chance going that route initially than AAF did with getting NFL Help.  And the Reality is YES people will pay to watch former HS players play minor league football.  Happens every THURS, FRI, SAT during the season.

 

Other things that they need to succeed, real solid broadcast crews, coaching staffs and refs.  Adds legitimacy. not to mention there are more areas for "development", with NFL Refs retiring etc.  If they truly embrace themselves as a standalone development league there will be a better chance at success

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by MAJBobby

[aristocrat]

well this guy dundon probably just cost him a shot at owning an nfl team in the future. the league seemed to like it and now he's severed that tie it was seem. 

[May Day 10]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Huh????

 

No, the football viewing public decides.

 

IMO, a 2nd Pro Football league will only be viable if/when the NFL deems it as something they want.  The NFL can get the viewers.  They have the infrastructure, coffers, and brands people have tribal associations with that go back a century in some cases.  

 

In the current climate (with the NFL being such a behemoth), I don't think that any secondary pro league will ever be able to get enough traction to remain solvent (Arena League aside, but that is in its death throes).  There is nothing compelling about watching C-level amateurs playing for teams that nobody has any attachment to during an offseason part of the cycle.  I thought McMahon's "REAL FOOTBALL" idea was interesting, but those games were awful and you cant do that in this day of CTE and litigation, and finding players.  Trying to put these teams in NFL size venues is silly.

 

If the NFL decided that a developmental league is something they desire, they would create a league in locations of their choosing, and if it would have a nearly unlimited financial safety net to get through a few seasons before roots were took hold in the cities/towns chosen to host teams.  They already have broadcasting partners and the means to produce games for a viewing audience.  I think if a game had some connection with the Bills and there were some practice squad guys, or maybe that CFL receiver they brought in... or maybe a flyer QB they are trying to develop, I would watch some, and at the very least, follow progress and box scores.  

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I didn't predict their outcome.  

 

Their Strategy was obviously flawed (everything they did would have needed the NFL and NFLPA) - they started hoping for a quick merger with the NFL, it didnt happen.

 

XFL however is taking a different route as reported, they will not look at going against or needing the NFL players with taking kids right out of HS.  Instead they are putting themselves in a market space of not competing with or needing the NFL or NFLPA. Instead leveraging themselves to be a secondary option to NCAA.  And because of that positioning I think they have a better chance to succeed.  They will need a legit TV contract (but Vince does have more "ins" in that world).  

 

Thats all I am saying is for these start up leagues to really succeed they have to tap into the currently untapped resource and that is the kids leaving HS.  There is traction there with more and more out there that these kids should be getting paid.  They stand a better chance going that route initially than AAF did with getting NFL Help.  And the Reality is YES people will pay to watch former HS players play minor league football.  Happens every THURS, FRI, SAT during the season.

 

Other things that they need to succeed, real solid broadcast crews, coaching staffs and refs.  Adds legitimacy. not to mention there are more areas for "development", with NFL Refs retiring etc.  If they truly embrace themselves as a standalone development league there will be a better chance at success

 

 

 

Where?

 

The AAF didn't have solid coaching crews? That league was LOADED with former NFL and NCAA for HC's!  The XFL has Jim Zorn, Pep Hamilton, Bob Stoops and Trestman.  They are advertising coaching jobs on Linkdin and on the "careers" part of their official website!:

 

https://www.xfl.com/careers    Nice!  Now that's a league with a solid plan.  All they need to put the cherry on top is to fill the roster with some 17-18 year old kids, and watch the ticket sales and TV contract roll in!!

 

I'm sorry, but that's as funny as it sounds.

 

The NFL had nothing to do with the inevitable failure of the AAF.  It's a losing concept.  Kids on rosters isn't the missing piece. 

17 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

well this guy dundon probably just cost him a shot at owning an nfl team in the future. the league seemed to like it and now he's severed that tie it was seem. 

 

 

They were transiently amused by it...as in "sure, whatever".  And then I'm sure that, if it was brought up at all at the recent owners meeting, they all had a good laugh and got back to the business of printing money and dominating the news cycle 365 days a year.

[reddogblitz]

I'm bummed. No football  now til August.

 

I watched every Memphis Express game as they were my team.  I watched some others as well.  It was fun.

 

I always wonder why these leagues want to play in HUGE empty stadiums.  Looks bad on TV.  Would seem that if they played in smaller stadiums like small college or some of those big HS stadiums they have in TX their costs would be less and on TV it wouldn't look like they have no fans.

 

But I'm all for spring football.  Bring on the XFL!0

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Where?

 

The AAF didn't have solid coaching crews? That league was LOADED with former NFL and NCAA for HC's!  The XFL has Jim Zorn, Pep Hamilton, Bob Stoops and Trestman.  They are advertising coaching jobs on Linkdin and on the "careers" part of their official website!:

 

https://www.xfl.com/careers    Nice!  Now that's a league with a solid plan.  All they need to put the cherry on top is to fill the roster with some 17-18 year old kids, and watch the ticket sales and TV contract roll in!!

 

I'm sorry, but that's as funny as it sounds.

 

The NFL had nothing to do with the inevitable failure of the AAF.  It's a losing concept.  Kids on rosters isn't the missing piece. 

 

 

They were transiently amused by it...as in "sure, whatever".  And then I'm sure that, if it was brought up at all at the recent owners meeting, they all had a good laugh and got back to the business of printing money and dominating the news cycle 365 days a year.

Seeing you like to bring up 17-18 year old KIDS over and over again as a laughable concept.  What do you watch EVERY Saturday.  you guessed it 17-21 year OLD Kids.  And last I checked these universities are making Billions off these 17-21 year old KIDS.

 

OOO No not advertising on LinkedIn what a detriment.  hmmm So Lockheed Martin applying via LinkedIn, must mean they are in the tank too right.  Yeah I know it is horrible that a startup league is going outside the NFL nepotism to look for talent.  I mean yeah no companies in the world succeed when they think out of the "norm" for that industry.

 

I guess my high 6 figure job was based on a bad business model because well they received my initial application via LinkedIn

Edited April 3, 2019 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Seeing you like to bring up 17-18 year old KIDS over and over again as a laughable concept.  What do you watch EVERY Saturday.  you guessed it 17-21 year OLD Kids.  And last I checked these universities are making Billions off these 17-21 year old KIDS

That doesn't mean folks are going to tune in to watch 1 star recruits play minor league games.

 

Look at the Big Baller Brand basketball league.  

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

I'm bummed. No football  now til August.

 

I watched every Memphis Express game as they were my team.  I watched some others as well.  It was fun.

 

I always wonder why these leagues want to play in HUGE empty stadiums.  Looks bad on TV.  Would seem that if they played in smaller stadiums like small college or some of those big HS stadiums they have in TX their costs would be less and on TV it wouldn't look like they have no fans.

 

But I'm all for spring football.  Bring on the XFL!0

 

Most likely reason is infrastructure. You need a press box and all the wiring for TV and Internet access, not to mention a place to hang the Sky Cam.

[MAJBobby]

41 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

That doesn't mean folks are going to tune in to watch 1 star recruits play minor league games.

 

Look at the Big Baller Brand basketball league.  

Who is saying they will be 1 star recruits.  Sure making alot of assumptions 

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Who is saying they will be 1 star recruits.  Sure making alot of assumptions 

I think a lot of top recruits will choose straight up money and pro development over a college scholarship.

 

College can always be the back-up plan, anyway. It's the right way to do it. If you're gonna go to school, focus on school. If you're gonna be a pro, focus on being a pro. The current system is so backwards.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Who is saying they will be 1 star recruits.  Sure making alot of assumptions 

Ask the American Basketball League.  Where did Zion Williamson choose to go?

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Ask the American Basketball League.  Where did Zion Williamson choose to go?

 

Duke pays more.

 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Duke pays more.

 

True as well.  If Bama is gonna give you tuition and under the table perks, why go to a minor league?

[MAJBobby]

53 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Ask the American Basketball League.  Where did Zion Williamson choose to go?

Apples to Oranges. 

 

So Is Zion entering the Draft this year or is he Locked into Duke unto he is three years removed from HS?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...may as well ask......for those who have watched games, is there any talent McBeane may consider or you watchers would want to see as camp bodies to fill out the required 90?....

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Apples to Oranges. 

 

So Is Zion entering the Draft this year or is he Locked into Duke unto he is three years removed from HS?

Apples to Oranges at this point but if the NCAA feels “threatened” by minor league football (which will never happen) they will call on the NFL to change the 3 year out of HS rule. They will absolutely acquiesce to that in fear of losing top flight talent to another football league. These minor leagues, are never, and have never competed with the top level of collegiate athletics!! The money isn’t there and won’t ever be there.

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...may as well ask......for those who have watched games, is there any talent McBeane may consider or you watchers would want to see as camp bodies to fill out the required 90?....

John Kling Offensive Tackle 

[MAJBobby]

22 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Apples to Oranges at this point but if the NCAA feels “threatened” by minor league football (which will never happen) they will call on the NFL to change the 3 year out of HS rule. They will absolutely acquiesce to that in fear of losing top flight talent to another football league. These minor leagues, are never, and have never competed with the top level of collegiate athletics!! The money isn’t there and won’t ever be there.

 

And that would be a “Win” for the players. Maybe it never succeeds in terms of a long term option. But it is changes the Landscape of the NCAA that is a win in my mind. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Looking at the (highly overpriced) online AAF store, I think they’re hoping to recoup some cash losses through sale of league endorsed merchandise.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...may as well ask......for those who have watched games, is there any talent McBeane may consider or you watchers would want to see as camp bodies to fill out the required 90?....

 

Charles Johnson, WR from Orlando

Karter Schult DE Salt Lake 

Edited April 4, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Kirby Jackson]

31 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And that would be a “Win” for the players. Maybe it never succeeds in terms of a long term option. But it is changes the Landscape of the NCAA that is a win in my mind. 

I don’t disagree at all with that. It could be as simple paying the players (which may be coming anyways). 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Most likely reason is infrastructure. You need a press box and all the wiring for TV and Internet access, not to mention a place to hang the Sky Cam.

 

I don't think so.  ESPN showed a football game from the High School stadium down the street from me a few years ago.  I watched it on TV and it was as good as any other game on TV.  SkyCam sucks anyway.

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Apples to Oranges. 

 

So Is Zion entering the Draft this year or is he Locked into Duke unto he is three years removed from HS?

He was locked into Duke for the year, yes.

 

Was that supposed to support your point?

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Seeing you like to bring up 17-18 year old KIDS over and over again as a laughable concept.  What do you watch EVERY Saturday.  you guessed it 17-21 year OLD Kids.  And last I checked these universities are making Billions off these 17-21 year old KIDS.

 

OOO No not advertising on LinkedIn what a detriment.  hmmm So Lockheed Martin applying via LinkedIn, must mean they are in the tank too right.  Yeah I know it is horrible that a startup league is going outside the NFL nepotism to look for talent.  I mean yeah no companies in the world succeed when they think out of the "norm" for that industry.

 

I guess my high 6 figure job was based on a bad business model because well they received my initial application via LinkedIn

 

yes, every Saturday I and the rest of the nation watch the best HS students, no college students, play other top college athletes in college football.

 

Anyway...again, your contention that the reason America turned its back of the AAF because it lacked kids coming out of HS directly is just silly.   This was a league filled with men whom actually played high level college ball and many played in the NFL---and still no one cared.  Adding some HS nobodies will do the trick?  That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

Also, making no sense is the contention that ANY "top rated" HS recruit would bypass a top college program to enter the XFL.  Beside the fact that it's ridiculous on its face----every top recruit just saw a hugely hyped legitimately staffed and backed pro football league go belly up before its first season was finished it's schedule!  

 

They are now going to forgo the NCAA to sign a "million dollar a year" contract that isn't worth the paper it's written on??

 

Let it go.

 

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Apples to Oranges. 

 

So Is Zion entering the Draft this year or is he Locked into Duke unto he is three years removed from HS?

 

 

Why did he bother going to Duke at all?  Why didn't he take the money in the G League, or played overseas?

Edited April 4, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't think so.  ESPN showed a football game from the High School stadium down the street from me a few years ago.  I watched it on TV and it was as good as any other game on TV.  SkyCam sucks anyway.

Maybe @Kirby Jackson can give his opinion?

[MAJBobby]

51 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

He was locked into Duke for the year, yes.

 

Was that supposed to support your point?

 

3 years removed from HS. Do college Basketball players have to wait 3 years to get paid. 

 

Hence Apples to Oranges. 

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

yes, every Saturday I and the rest of the nation watch the best HS students, no college students, play other top college athletes in college football.

 

Anyway...again, your contention that the reason America turned its back of the AAF because it lacked kids coming out of HS directly is just silly.   This was a league filled with men whom actually played high level college ball and many played in the NFL---and still no one cared.  Adding some HS nobodies will do the trick?  That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

Also, making no sense is the contention that ANY "top rated" HS recruit would bypass a top college program to enter the XFL.  Beside the fact that it's ridiculous on its face----every top recruit just saw a hugely hyped legitimately staffed and backed pro football league go belly up before its first season was finished it's schedule!  

 

They are now going to forgo the NCAA to sign a "million dollar a year" contract that isn't worth the paper it's written on??

 

Let it go.

 

 

 

Why did he bother going to Duke at all?  Why didn't he take the money in the G League, or played overseas?

 

Because the One and done is Very easy isn’t it. So want to keep trying to compare apples to oranges. 

 

And I never Once said that is why the AAF failed Did I?  I however did say they took a Business Model that lacked a visionary approach and instead HOPED for support from the NFL and NFLPA. 

 

I am done with this conversation anyway 

Edited April 4, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

3 years removed from HS. Do college Basketball players have to wait 3 years to get paid. 

 

Hence Apples to Oranges. 

 

Because the One and done is Very easy isn’t it. So want to keep trying to compare apples to oranges. 

 

And I never Once said that is why the AAF failed Did I?  I however did say they took a Business Model that lacked a visionary approach and instead HOPED for support from the NFL and NFLPA. 

 

I am done with this conversation anyway 

 

yeah,  you really should be....

[BringBackOrton]

35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

yeah,  you really should be....

It’s really sad to watch.

[njbuff]

Why do they continuously create new footballs when anyone with a brain knows that it will fail, bar none?

 

It boggles the mind.

 

Just think about it, the USFL had a lot of NFL talent in their league and it failed miserably in short order. Shouldn't have that been a sign of future failures?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

After AAF shutdown, players bought own plane tickets home: Report

By Thomas BarrabiPublished April 03, 2019SportsFOXBusiness

 

The Alliance of American Football’s Opens a New Window. sudden decision to suspend operations Opens a New Window. this week forced newly unemployed players to pay out of pocket for flights home, according to a report.

The AAF, which has battled reports of financial issues since the start of its inaugural season, informed employees in a letter that they would no longer be employed as of Wednesday.

 

While players and other personnel were paid through their last day of unemployment, they received no severance or reimbursement for final travel costs.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 3/31/2019 at 12:54 PM, Augie said:

Who was responsible for this business plan? I mean.......ALREADY???

Whaley

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Whaley

XFL, not AAF. But, funny 

[PromoTheRobot]

If you made AAF bets though FanDuel, congratulations.

 

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/26434469/fanduel-pay-all-aaf-futures-bets-10k

[Kirby Jackson]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Maybe @Kirby Jackson can give his opinion?

I tend to think that smaller stadiums work better but these leagues prepare for success. I honestly think it’s an ego thing more than anything. These guys don’t want to play in a 20K HS stadium when, if things go well, maybe they get 50k? 

 

There are also some technological limitations, specifically in the media rooms. If these leagues ever do get bigger they will need to be able to support the media needs. I think that they “scale up” so that they don’t need to make changes. It’s easier to sell more tickets than to find a new venue,  refund and/or relocate what’s sold, and do it again.  It doesn’t look good on TV but it is easier logistically. That’s my $.02 anyways...

Edited April 4, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[whatdrought]

Why would the NFL spend so much time treating this like "little brother" and then let it fold this quickly? Weird. Any chance they swoop in at the last minute for a buyout to make it a true farm league?