Robert Kraft charged in prostitution ring bust ( Update: Kraft legal team accused of lying in court)

[Koko78]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The conflict as I see it is if the tape was impermissibly obtained and violated the right of the owner of the facility who has the primary standing (as you describe it) I don't see how the proceeds of that supposedly impermissible surveillance could be used against Kraft. As you noted there are standard undercover procedures that are used to arrest johns in solicitation type scenarios. This goes way beyond that. If the basis of the warrant related to human trafficking and it was determined that in fact there was no human trafficking then I don't see how the authorities would pursue a legal action against Kraft whose primary offense is having a high profile.

 

You're talking about two different sets of rights. Violating the rights of the property owner is not the same thing as violating Kraft's rights. They are not linked. I've given several examples to that effect. The person with a protected interest can seek suppression of illegal evidence, when the person who does not have a protected interest cannot have the same evidence suppressed against them. It's not all or nothing.

 

Not being able to show that there was actual human trafficking going on, as I have plainly stated, is not - by itself - a way to get the warrant tossed. If the cops had probable cause to seek a warrant, and the evidence later does not pan out does NOT invalidate the warrant absent fraud or misrepresentations by the government to get the warrant.

 

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have had some experience with the criminal justice system in the DC area. I'm confident that if there were legal questions of search and seizure issues regarding such a lower misdemeanor charge against  anyone (high profile or not) the case would be quickly dismissed. Florida is certainly not DC and has a different legal culture than the more liberal DC system. But if I had to wager a bet I would say that Kraft will prevail in this case. 

 

We shall see.

[ricko1112]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:52 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Yup

 

While this might have been mentioned in one of the other thousands of posts about this, I'll remind everyone that the sheriff admitted that there never was any human trafficking. Despite the fleeting embarrassment this will soon be forgotten. He paid less than the dinner and a movie it costs most of us to get any action...

[Doc]

8 hours ago, iinii said:

Which is exactly what I was saying. 

 

Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Oh man!  You always do come around doc...

 

Anyway.  Maybe that Palm Beach DA, after finally conceding what many had concluded WEEKS ago regarding "human trafficking" at the spa, will be free to help OJ "find the real killers" of Brown and Goldman.

 

And it's not really "burying with paperwork" when your lawyer  is simply doing a very basic defense--which is ALWAYS challenging the evidence.  It's literally what every legal commenter everywhere said was the weakness of this case from day one.  LOL  "paperwork".

 

There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO.  OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here.  But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it.  That's what makes you a hypocrite.

 

As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby.  If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago.

4 hours ago, ricko1112 said:

While this might have been mentioned in one of the other thousands of posts about this, I'll remind everyone that the sheriff admitted that there never was any human trafficking. Despite the fleeting embarrassment this will soon be forgotten. He paid less than the dinner and a movie it costs most of us to get any action...

 

Video lasts forever.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

What I find most baffling is not that the police applied for a warrant but that the judge actually signed the warrant when there were so many sketchy details about the case.

 

I agree with you about Kraft having the standing to challenge the taping. If the tape is going to be used against him how could he not have standing? At least that is how I see it.  

 

Your perspective in this case is the same as mine. That is troubling. 

 

“Luke....I am your faaaather”

 

lol

[ricko1112]

53 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing.

 

 

There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO.  OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here.  But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it.  That's what makes you a hypocrite.

 

As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby.  If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago.

 

Video lasts forever.

I'll watch it. We all will. We'll cringe and make jokes, but you know how this will go right?

 

He's a 77 year old widower...

 

Murdering an ex-wife and her boyfriend is a little bit more serious don't you think?

 

Maybe re-evaluate your comment in the morning? I'm a bit tipsy too...

[Fires]

not going  back on postings,  but who called it Marin County....... It's Martin County....... I spent 28 years there in the Fire Department.  

 

[#34fan]

19 minutes ago, Fires said:

not going  back on postings,  but who called it Marin County....... It's Martin County....... I spent 28 years there in the Fire Department.  

 

 

Yeah, -Hobo sound is up there too, right?

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ricko1112 said:

I'll watch it. We all will. We'll cringe and make jokes, but you know how this will go right?

 

He's a 77 year old widower...

 

Murdering an ex-wife and her boyfriend is a little bit more serious don't you think?

 

Maybe re-evaluate your comment in the morning? I'm a bit tipsy too...

 

I'll pass on the video.  Just like I did on that "2 girls 1 cup" video. ?

 

And what does OJ have to do with anything?

[billieve420]

I don’t care about any video or this soon to be circus of a trial. Kraft is guilty regardless of how this all plays out. It is a misdemeanor and he should pay a fine for getting caught. 

 

If the case gets thrown out due to something the cops done that wasn’t legal that is fine but still makes him guilty in my eyes of soliciting regardless of the outcome.

Edited April 17, 2019 by billieve420

[Punching Bag]

Question should be asked that if a player or NFL front office personnel was caught in similar situation (assume same difference of years between parties) what would the penalty be?

 

Players can get suspended for things which are NOT "illegal" like smoking pot in some areas so it is not the illegality which is the issue

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Apparently things that are going well over your head.

 

You were claiming Kraft had "no standing" to challenge the video as evidence.  Of course he does.

 

13 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing.

 

 

There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO.  OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here.  But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it.  That's what makes you a hypocrite.

 

As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby.  If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago.

 

Video lasts forever.

 

I wrote in this very thread that he is a POS.  But I know you know that--you always change the facts to contort to your narrative (this is well known and documented here).

 

But for you it always comes down to your feelings of personal affront.  You can't wrap your head around the possibility that a Bills fan can assert that a famous mistreater of women and/or all around knucklehead (Marshwn!) like McCoy doesn't deserve the love that you can't quit.  It makes you write silly things, doc. 

 

McCoy will be gone soon.  You have to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for that day.  You should start now.

[Koko78]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You were claiming Kraft had "no standing" to challenge the video as evidence.  Of course he does.

 

I gave a general overview of 4th Amendment law. If you don't want to accept that, that's your business, not my problem.

 

I have no interest in arguing with your google law degree.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Koko78 said:

 

I gave a general overview of 4th Amendment law. If you don't want to accept that, that's your business, not my problem.

 

I have no interest in arguing with your google law degree.

 

 

Can you point to anyone anywhere who has also concluded that Kraft has no standing to challenge the video as evidence against him?  The DA hasn't made that argument.

[Koko78]

Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing.

 

Love them google law degrees.

[iinii]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing.

 

Duh to them expecting it, but Kraft’s team can  drag this thing out way longer than the DAs have time or money for. The DA may have some moral high ground, the law and desire but Kraft has money and better lawyers. 

[ricko1112]

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Question should be asked that if a player or NFL front office personnel was caught in similar situation (assume same difference of years between parties) what would the penalty be?

 

Players can get suspended for things which are NOT "illegal" like smoking pot in some areas so it is not the illegality which is the issue

A few years ago, Jim Irsay was pulled over for DWI. He was arrested, cuffed, and transported to jail. He was charged with a couple of felonies regarding controlled substances. He had several hundred oxy pills in his car as well as $29K in cash in small bundles in several paper bags. There was also a dead woman found dead of an overdose in his condo. For committing felonies, Irsay was fined $500K and suspended 6 games. For 2 misdemeanors Kraft should receive much less...   

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Koko78 said:

Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing.

 

Love them google law degrees.

 

The appropriateness of the warrant and the admissibility of the tapes as evidence against these 300 men has been a hot topic of legal debate since this story broke 2 months ago.  If the defendants have no standing, why is there a debate at all?  Do these lawyers know anything about the 4th Amendment??

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

I wrote in this very thread that he is a POS.  But I know you know that--you always change the facts to contort to your narrative (this is well known and documented here).

 

But for you it always comes down to your feelings of personal affront.  You can't wrap your head around the possibility that a Bills fan can assert that a famous mistreater of women and/or all around knucklehead (Marshwn!) like McCoy doesn't deserve the love that you can't quit.  It makes you write silly things, doc. 

 

McCoy will be gone soon.  You have to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for that day.  You should start now.

 

"Feelings of personal affront"?  LOL!  I'm not the one with the history of laughably wrong takes based on players' alleged "mistreatment of women."  And even in Bobby's case, while I don't like him (but also don't think he's a POS), I don't think he should face jail time or get much more than a slap on the wrist, but he clearly broke the law and should own up to it, and is trying to use a technicality to get out of it, as if that technicality is what made him illegally pay for sex.

 

And yes, Shady will be gone soon.  But Bills players won't.

 

 

3 hours ago, Koko78 said:

Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing.

 

Love them google law degrees.

 

 He knows what the Florida DA is saying but couldn't tell what the Philly DA was saying.  Convenient.

 

1 hour ago, iinii said:

Duh to them expecting it, but Kraft’s team can  drag this thing out way longer than the DAs have time or money for. The DA may have some moral high ground, the law and desire but Kraft has money and better lawyers. 

 

That's not even close to reality.  But at this point, the DA isn't spending much time or money on this case: that's all on Bobby's side.  And the DA wants the win.  It's what they do.  The case isn't going to magically disappear because his lawyers keep coming up with lame excuses.

 

[Gugny]

Isn't it destiny that this trial ends up with a hung jury?

[Doc]

 

 

17 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

There goes the belief that the video will get tossed.  And the video very well could break the internet.

[prissythecat]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

There goes the belief that the video will get tossed.  And the video very well could break the internet.

 

 

The release of the video to the public because of  and its admissibility into evidence are mutually exclusive items.

[Kirby Jackson]

I can’t wait

[Gugny]

22 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

The release of the video to the public because of  and its admissibility into evidence are mutually exclusive items.

 

I'd like a list of people who actually want to see that video.  This way, I can make sure I never befriend any of them.

[wppete]

I hope he is forced to sell the team. That franchise is just scum. Cheaters, liars and an owner who supports human trafficking and sex slaves. Way to go NE!

[Rufridr101]

From the beastie boys he's krafty.  Wonder why he didn't hire dershowitzs.  

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, wppete said:

I hope he is forced to sell the team. That franchise is just scum. Cheaters, liars and an owner who supports human trafficking and sex slaves. Way to go NE!

 

I take it you've never ordered Chinese food.  And no women in your life have ever gone to get a manicure or pedicure.

 

The franchise isn't scum.  Kraft wasn't supporting human trafficking.  He was getting a *****.  And that shouldn't mean that he's forced to sell his team.

 

Should Pegula be forced to sell the team for destroying the environment?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

19 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'd like a list of people who actually want to see that video.  This way, I can make sure I never befriend any of them.

I just want to see it for my research on trying to learn how to become a billionaire. Not sure if this would be relevant but we'll see

[Gugny]

17 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

I just want to see it for my research on trying to learn how to become a billionaire. Not sure if this would be relevant but we'll see

 

"Research."  Okay, Pete Townshend!! 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Kraft’s attorney, William Burck, has been fighting in court to keep the videos out of public view, arguing last week that “it’s basically pornography.”

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Fires said:

not going  back on postings,  but who called it Marin County....... It's Martin County....... I spent 28 years there in the Fire Department.  

had family in port salerno. uncle was a commercial fisherman.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, prissythecat said:

The release of the video to the public because of  and its admissibility into evidence are mutually exclusive items.

 

True.  And as I've said all along, the video getting out is the worst outcome for Bobby.

31 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I take it you've never ordered Chinese food.  And no women in your life have ever gone to get a manicure or pedicure.

 

The franchise isn't scum.  Kraft wasn't supporting human trafficking.  He was getting a *****.  And that shouldn't mean that he's forced to sell his team.

 

Should Pegula be forced to sell the team for destroying the environment?

 

He did?

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

True.  And as I've said all along, the video getting out is the worst outcome for Bobby.

 

He did?

 

*is

[wppete]

40 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I take it you've never ordered Chinese food.  And no women in your life have ever gone to get a manicure or pedicure.

 

The franchise isn't scum.  Kraft wasn't supporting human trafficking.  He was getting a *****.  And that shouldn't mean that he's forced to sell his team.

 

Should Pegula be forced to sell the team for destroying the environment?

 

Dude I was joking about the human tracking. But the team is still scum! 

[Gugny]

Just now, wppete said:

 

Dude I was joking about the human tracking. But the team is still scum! 

 

Damn.  You got me good!!  (I still don't think the team is scum, though.)  Cheers!!

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

*is

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Damn.  You got me good!!  (I still don't think the team is scum, though.)  Cheers!!

 

Opinions are like...

[Jauronimo]

30 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Opinions are like...

Well, that's just, like, your opinion man...

[Fires]

2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

Kraft’s attorney, William Burck, has been fighting in court to keep the videos out of public view, arguing last week that “it’s basically pornography.”

 

 

 

had family in port salerno. uncle was a commercial fisherman.

worked in Salerno for a while. my neighbor is a commercial fisherman.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

"Feelings of personal affront"?  LOL!  I'm not the one with the history of laughably wrong takes based on players' alleged "mistreatment of women."  And even in Bobby's case, while I don't like him (but also don't think he's a POS), I don't think he should face jail time or get much more than a slap on the wrist, but he clearly broke the law and should own up to it, and is trying to use a technicality to get out of it, as if that technicality is what made him illegally pay for sex.

 

And yes, Shady will be gone soon.  But Bills players won't.

 

 

 

 He knows what the Florida DA is saying but couldn't tell what the Philly DA was saying.  Convenient.

 

 

That's not even close to reality.  But at this point, the DA isn't spending much time or money on this case: that's all on Bobby's side.  And the DA wants the win.  It's what they do.  The case isn't going to magically disappear because his lawyers keep coming up with lame excuses.

 

 

 

"Lame excuses"?  you've already conceded this is exactly what any defense lawyer would do.

 

The Philly DA was very explicit in what he said.  You are still pretending to struggle with his quote.  The Palm Beach DA has not (nor has ANYONE) claimed that the Johns have "no standing " to challenge the video evidence against them. Not even you have claimed this, as you know.

 

The DA wants to win....yet he has already offered to make the charges "disappear"...

 

 

8 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

The release of the video to the public because of  and its admissibility into evidence are mutually exclusive items.

 

If it's ruled inadmissible, it ain't be released to the public.

[iinii]

10 hours ago, Doc said:

 

"Feelings of personal affront"?  LOL!  I'm not the one with the history of laughably wrong takes based on players' alleged "mistreatment of women."  And even in Bobby's case, while I don't like him (but also don't think he's a POS), I don't think he should face jail time or get much more than a slap on the wrist, but he clearly broke the law and should own up to it, and is trying to use a technicality to get out of it, as if that technicality is what made him illegally pay for sex.

 

And yes, Shady will be gone soon.  But Bills players won't.

 

 

 

 He knows what the Florida DA is saying but couldn't tell what the Philly DA was saying.  Convenient.

 

 

That's not even close to reality.  But at this point, the DA isn't spending much time or money on this case: that's all on Bobby's side.  And the DA wants the win.  It's what they do.  The case isn't going to magically disappear because his lawyers keep coming up with lame excuses.

 

Kraft can ride this pony as long as he wants. The DA will do anything and everything to get out from under this ton of bricks. it’s what they do when they are out gunned on a case that is as far as Kraft is concerned is a misdemeanor. The DA will be lucky to get a draw.