Cardinals tweet their support of Right Josh

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

In the title, anyone know what the word “right” means in terms of Josh? He says “right Josh”. Sorry, it’s been bothering me. 

Last year at draft time, Josh Allen was referred to on TBD as “Wrong Josh” by his detractors so we called Rosen “Right Josh” 

Edited March 4, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[dave mcbride]

6 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Serious question as I posted this in the other thread. Why not draft Murray and keep Rosen till they know who their long term solution is? Can any team risk putting their future on the line for their pre-NFL personnel evaluation?

 

The thinking I've come across is that if you're going to go all in on Murray, get a backup like Brett Hundley who can play that style of game too (Arizona is reportedly sniffing around Hundley). The last thing you want is two qbs for whom you need to design wildly different offenses.  Anyway, Kingsbury is gonna run his system regardless, and Rosen just isn't a fit for it. The best thing that could happen to Rosen might be going to Washington, which runs a pocket passer offense and has a very talented o-line.

Edited March 4, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Dkollidas]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The thinking I've come across is that if you're going to go all in on Murray, get a backup like Brett Hundley who can play that style of game too (Arizona is reportedly sniffing around Hundley). The last thing you want is two qbs for whom you need to design wildly different offenses.  Anyway, Kingsbury is gonna run his system regardless, and Rosen just isn't a fit for it. The best thing that could happen to Rosen might be going to Washington, which runs a pocket passer offense and has a very talented o-line.

If they got Murray, I would think Tyrod would be a solid placeholder for him. I know he wasn’t great in Cleveland, but neither was Baker before they fired Hue Jackson. He was a terrible coach. 

[Fan in Chicago]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The thinking I've come across is that if you're going to go all in on Murray, get a backup like Brett Hundley who can play that style of game too (Arizona is reportedly sniffing around Hundley). The last thing you want is two qbs for whom you need to design wildly different offenses.  Anyway, Kingsbury is gonna run his system regardless, and Rosen just isn't a fit for it. The best thing that could happen to Rosen might be going to Washington, which runs a pocket passer offense and has a very talented o-line.

I do understand the argument against the different styles but if they go all-in on Murray and he flames out, they are set back several years.It isnt a guarantee that he will get a QB to fit his scheme in drafts 2020+. That team will end up waiting a long long time. 

OTOH, if they still have Rosen around, Kingsbury may want to design a different offense while he still has a QB.I think it is way too early to get rid of a top-10 QB pick. 

[MJS]

17 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I thought the same thing. Why not keep both and make them battle it out... unless you just think Murray will win regardless and you need to move Rosen while he still maintains any value 

 

How do you effectively develop two young QB's? Split reps? Then you have two QB's that aren't ready each week. There's no way both of them can get the playing time they need if you are trying to develop both of them.

Edited March 5, 2019 by MJS

[Dkollidas]

Cardinals just seem a bit dysfunctional. Why as the GM with a 2nd year QB who you traded up for in the 1st Round of the 2018 draft, would you say he’s your quarterback “for now”? 

 

I wonder if it’s mostly just a smoke screen in order to get someone to try to trade up to #1? 

 

If that’s not it, I just don’t think they know what they’re doing. 

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

 

How do you effectively develop two young QB's? Split reps? Then you have two QB's that aren't ready each week. There's no way both of them can get the playing time they need if you are trying to develop both of them.

 

Rivers and Brees did fine with it.  Aikman did fine battling Walsh.  Baker did fine with TT taking most reps.  

 

What's the difference if it’s a Vet battling a rookie or two young QBs battling?  One is gonna rise to the top still.  

 

 

[MJS]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Rivers and Brees did fine with it.  Aikman did fine battling Walsh.  Baker did fine with TT taking most reps.  

 

What's the difference if it’s a Vet battling a rookie or two young QBs battling?  One is gonna rise to the top still.  

 

You are referencing the exceptions. Plus, in this era teams don't get as much time with the players because of new rules, so Aikman and Walsh are not relevant.

 

With two top 10 QB's drafted back to back, the one who gets the most playing time is going to be the one to rise to the top.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

You are referencing the exceptions. Plus, in this era teams don't get as much time with the players because of new rules, so Aikman and Walsh are not relevant.

 

With two top 10 QB's drafted back to back, the one who gets the most playing time is going to be the one to rise to the top.

 

The one who gets the most playing will be the guy who won and rose to the top. 

 

I mean every rookie has limited reps, rarely are they the unquestioned starter when drafted.  Allen did fine and he was third on the depth chart when camp began.  Baker wasn’t even supposed to start at all as a rookie, and yet he over took TT early despite limited reps.  Darnold and Lamar too.  

 

So do these two battling isn’t going to stunt their growth, young QBs always split reps until they win the job.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The one who gets the most playing will be the guy who won and rose to the top. 

 

I mean every rookie has limited reps, rarely are they the unquestioned starter when drafted.  Allen did fine and he was third on the depth chart when camp began.  Baker wasn’t even supposed to start at all as a rookie, and yet he over took TT early despite limited reps.  Darnold and Lamar too.  

 

So do these two battling isn’t going to stunt their growth, young QBs always split reps until they win the job.

I think the issue is that for all intents purposes, Rivers/Brees played (and play) the same basic style, and Aikman/Walsh did the same. Rosen and Murray play wildly different styles and each would fare best in an offense entirely unlike the one the other would fare best in.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think the issue is that for all intents purposes, Rivers/Brees played (and play) the same basic style, and Aikman/Walsh did the same. Rosen and Murray play wildly different styles and each would fare best in an offense entirely unlike the one the other would fare best in.

 

I think Rosen is getting traded personally, and likely to Washington.  I was just saying it’s not crazy.  Flacco and Lamar played different styles too though and Lamar was able to take over for a SB champion QB.

[Buffalophil1948]

Some stores here in Phoenix are trying to get rid of Rosen jerseys for $30

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/12/2019 at 2:08 PM, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

The graphic doesn't close the quotation! What was Kingsbury's next sentence, eh?

.....for now"....

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The one who gets the most playing will be the guy who won and rose to the top. 

 

I mean every rookie has limited reps, rarely are they the unquestioned starter when drafted.  Allen did fine and he was third on the depth chart when camp began.  Baker wasn’t even supposed to start at all as a rookie, and yet he over took TT early despite limited reps.  Darnold and Lamar too.  

 

So do these two battling isn’t going to stunt their growth, young QBs always split reps until they win the job.

 

Tyrod Taylor got injured. Yes, he was sucking, so a benching was probably coming anyways, but Mayfield played first because of injury. Same with Lamar Jackson. He played when Flacco got hurt. Darnold had a journeyman crappy QB in front of him.

 

Allen split reps, yes, which any coach will tell you us not ideal. He didn't have a serious QB to contend with though. It was always going to be his job eventually. Same with Darnold, Mayfield, etc.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 

Tyrod Taylor got injured. Yes, he was sucking, so a benching was probably coming anyways, but Mayfield played first because of injury. Same with Lamar Jackson. He played when Flacco got hurt. Darnold had a journeyman crappy QB in front of him.

 

Allen split reps, yes, which any coach will tell you us not ideal. He didn't have a serious QB to contend with though. It was always going to be his job eventually. Same with Darnold, Mayfield, etc.

 

Yeah but none of that is relevant to what is being discussed here regarding your original post I replied to.  You expressed concern over a QBs ability to develop if splitting reps and being ready to play.  I have now showed you several examples of how that’s not really a big concern.  

 

All those QBs showed they can develop and were ready to play despite having limited and split reps up to that point.  Doesn’t matter how they got on field, they found success despite splitting reps up to that point.  

 

Again, I’m sure AZ will trade Rosen and this is a mute point.  My point was simply it’s possible to keep both.  All rookies split reps before ascending to top of depth chart.  Them splitting reps is no different than what any rookie QB generally faces.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[YoloinOhio]

?

 

 

[JaCrispy]

We have now entered the twilight zone 

[GunnerBill]

I think Arizona is what we refer to as a cluster***k over here in the UK. They seem all over the place. 

 

There are twitter rumours out there supporting the Casserly story about Murray interviewing terribly and even saying a team "with real interest" has now "removed him totally from their board". Now I doubt that is Arizona.... that would be an embarrassing climb down but who knows with the mess there?

[C.Biscuit97]

So to be clear:  people are celebrating the “right” Josh based on a rumor that hasn’t happened with the Cards trading a rookie qb who basically had the same passing stats as our rookie QB?  Makes sense.  

 

Also, if we reverse the Joshs, we would have the same exact attitude towards Allen as some have towards Rosen.  Even if I didn’t like a rookie 1st round qb, to trade him after year on a crappy team is insane. IF the Cards do this, they better hit a Mahomes homer and hope Rosen doesn’t become a good qb.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Arizona is what we refer to as a cluster***k over here in the UK. They seem all over the place. 

 

There are twitter rumours out there supporting the Casserly story about Murray interviewing terribly and even saying a team "with real interest" has now "removed him totally from their board". Now I doubt that is Arizona.... that would be an embarrassing climb down but who knows with the mess there?

I’d like to think it’s draft time and everyone is lying.  

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

?

 

 

Honestly, what sense does it make tfor Arizona to reveal their true plans either way?  If anything, they are better off getting lies out there.

[BillsSB2020]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah but none of that is relevant to what is being discussed here regarding your original post I replied to.  You expressed concern over a QBs ability to develop if splitting reps and being ready to play.  I have now showed you several examples of how that’s not really a big concern.  

 

All those QBs showed they can develop and were ready to play despite having limited and split reps up to that point.  Doesn’t matter how they got on field, they found success despite splitting reps up to that point.  

 

Again, I’m sure AZ will trade Rosen and this is a mute point.  My point was simply it’s possible to keep both.  All rookies split reps before ascending to top of depth chart.  Them splitting reps is no different than what any rookie QB generally faces.  

I generally agree with the sentiment and this would be a VERY unique situation. Only one that comes to mind is Brees/Rivers.

 

My take is that a vet QB like Flacco/TT/McCown but that didn't materialize, may take a hit in performance as the internal and external pressure to play the rookie takes a toll. At the end of the day, the young guy is going to play anyway so it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

This would be different. May the best young guy win and you trade the other one. Getting QB right is by far the most important thing a franchise must do. If they're not sold on Rosen and love Murray, why not?

Edited March 6, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[RaoulDuke79]

Reminds me of the guys who drive around with "I Love My Wife" bumper stickers after they get caught cheating. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Reminds me of the guys who drive around with "I Love My Wife" bumper stickers after they get caught cheating. 

It’s always the ones who are extra gushy on social media who are headed for divorce 

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So to be clear:  people are celebrating the “right” Josh based on a rumor that hasn’t happened with the Cards trading a rookie qb who basically had the same passing stats as our rookie QB?  Makes sense.  

 

Also, if we reverse the Joshs, we would have the same exact attitude towards Allen as some have towards Rosen.  Even if I didn’t like a rookie 1st round qb, to trade him after year on a crappy team is insane. IF the Cards do this, they better hit a Mahomes homer and hope Rosen doesn’t become a good qb.

I’d like to think it’s draft time and everyone is lying.  

Honestly, what sense does it make tfor Arizona to reveal their true plans either way?  If anything, they are better off getting lies out there.

What good does lying do them?  They own the first overall pick.  They can choose whoever they want in the draft. 

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Arizona is what we refer to as a cluster***k over here in the UK. They seem all over the place. 

 

There are twitter rumours out there supporting the Casserly story about Murray interviewing terribly and even saying a team "with real interest" has now "removed him totally from their board". Now I doubt that is Arizona.... that would be an embarrassing climb down but who knows with the mess there?

Its definitely not Arizona. Rosen was rumored off many teams boards, but Arz took him in the 1st. No way Murray came off wore than Rosen.

[BillsSB2020]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

What good does lying do them?  They own the first overall pick.  They can choose whoever they want in the draft. 

The game has little to do with their upcoming number 1 pick and everything to do with an attempt to create a bidding war.

[Doc]

Just now, BillsSB2020 said:

The game has little to do with their upcoming number 1 pick and everything to do with an attempt to create a bidding war.

Over Rosen or the 1st overall pick?

[BillsSB2020]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

Over Rosen or the 1st overall pick?

My personal opinion is that they're taking Murray, but it would serve them no purpose to disclose everything either way. If you're shopping Rosen, you want teams to think you're "listening" to offers, but not desperate to deal him. You could also say there is incentive to not disclose everything as it pertains to the number 1 pick, especially if you're NOT taking Murray. There's no benefit to showing your hand at this point.

 

My hunch is that Cleveland was always going to take Mayfield, but you may as well keep that close to the vest in case something comes up with him and another team blows you away with a trade offer.

[Doc]

Just now, BillsSB2020 said:

My personal opinion is that they're taking Murray, but it would serve them no purpose to disclose everything either way. If you're shopping Rosen, you want teams to think you're "listening" to offers, but not desperate to deal him. You could also say there is incentive to not disclose everything as it pertains to the number 1 pick, especially if you're NOT taking Murray. There's no benefit to showing your hand at this point.

 

My hunch is that Cleveland was always going to take Mayfield, but you may as well keep that close to the vest in case something comes up with him and another team blows you away with a trade offer.

 

If they're shopping Rosen, and that's easy to verify (if you're an NFL GM), then it's obvious they're taking Murray and they won't be trading down. 

[C.Biscuit97]

21 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Its definitely not Arizona. Rosen was rumored off many teams boards, but Arz took him in the 1st. No way Murray came off wore than Rosen.

Rumored off teams’ draft boards??? Dear lord some of you are very gullible.

[BillsSB2020]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If they're shopping Rosen, and that's easy to verify (if you're an NFL GM), then it's obvious they're taking Murray and they won't be trading down. 

There's a difference between shopping and listening to offers. I would agree that that the secrecy doesn't provide some great advantage, but there's really zero benefit to showing your cards at this point.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, Doc said:

What good does lying do them?  They own the first overall pick.  They can choose whoever they want in the draft. 

You being serious Doc?  If another teams Ioves Murray, the Cards are better off trying to say they want Murray and hope a team gives them a monster package to trade up.   It’s draft time.  You want to get BS there.

 

again, if it was Josh Allen on the Cards, i think giving up him after one year would be stupid.  Especially for a guy Murray’s size.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Its definitely not Arizona. Rosen was rumored off many teams boards, but Arz took him in the 1st. No way Murray came off wore than Rosen.

 

"Worst Quarterback interview ever" was what Casserly said teams had told him on Murray. There was never any question that Rosen interviewed well at the combine. He was generally considered to have done very well there. 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, BillsSB2020 said:

There's a difference between shopping and listening to offers. I would agree that that the secrecy doesn't provide some great advantage, but there's really zero benefit to showing your cards at this point.

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You being serious Doc?  If another teams Ioves Murray, the Cards are better off trying to say they want Murray and hope a team gives them a monster package to trade up.   It’s draft time.  You want to get BS there.

 

again, if it was Josh Allen on the Cards, i think giving up him after one year would be stupid.  Especially for a guy Murray’s size.

 

I normally agree that teams should play it close to the vest.  However the Cardinals are in unusual circumstances in that a) their new HC previously said that he'd take Kyler Murray 1st overall if he had the chance, b) both that coach and GM said that Rosen is their QB "right now" and c) they're going to have to trade Rosen prior to the draft and will want to get the best return for him, so that means giving away their intentions of drafting Murray 1st overall.  I think when all is said and done, they'll trade Rosen after talking with a bunch of teams, the rest of the NFL will have known about it, and they'll stay at 1 and take Murray.

[BillsSB2020]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I normally agree that teams should play it close to the vest.  However the Cardinals are in unusual circumstances in that a) their new HC previously said that he'd take Kyler Murray 1st overall if he had the chance, b) both that coach and GM said that Rosen is their QB "right now" and c) they're going to have to trade Rosen prior to the draft and will want to get the best return for him, so that means giving away their intentions of drafting Murray 1st overall.  I think when all is said and done, they'll trade Rosen after talking with a bunch of teams, the rest of the NFL will have known about it, and they'll stay at 1 and take Murray.

The one card they would still have negotiation wise is the "we'll just keep both" schtick. It wouldn't be an ideal situation, but it's a chip.

 

Main point I'm trying to make is that while it's not some genius move to send these smokescreens, the org. may as well play the game as long as possible.

 

Same reason the Browns didn't just come out and say they were taking Mayfield.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by BillsSB2020

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

 

This would be different. May the best young guy win and you trade the other one. Getting QB right is by far the most important thing a franchise must do. If they're not sold on Rosen and love Murray, why not?

 

It is not correct to judge Rosen based on last year. He didnt light up the league but is not a Ryan Leaf, Manziel, J Russell. If the current AZ FO is not sold on ROsen, how can they possibly be confident about Murray being the right guy ? Lets say Rosen is traded, most on this board think he wont fetch anything better than a 2nd rounder. Is it worth throwing away the next 3-4 years for that pick (if Murray is a bust) ? If they keep both for this season, worst case, one of them turns out to be a total flop and they get a very low pick in 2020 for him. Big friggin deal. That franchise is is so much trouble right now, that they cannot afford to be wrong about a QB. They have to remember Favre. They cannot be so arrogant as to think they already know which of Murray and Rosen is better. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Fan in Chicago

[BillsSB2020]

20 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

It is not correct to judge Rosen based on last year. He didnt light up the league but is not a Ryan Leaf, Manziel, J Russell. If the current AZ FO is not sold on ROsen, how can they possibly be confident about Murray being the right guy ? Lets say Rosen is traded, most on this board think he wont fetch anything better than a 2nd rounder. Is it worth throwing away the next 3-4 years for that pick (if Murray is a bust) ? If they keep both for this season, worst case, one of them turns out to be a total flop and they get a very low pick in 2020 for him. Big friggin deal. That franchise is is so much trouble right now, that they cannot afford to be wrong about a QB. They have to remember Favre. They cannot be so arrogant as to think they already know which of Murray and Rosen is better. 

The coach may very well believe Rosen is not the right guy for his offense. I wasn't declaring Rosen a bust or projecting Murray as a franchise QB(although my OPINION is that he'll be a special player.)

 

Just chiming in on the Cardinals situation. Maybe they'll trade Rosen and live to regret it. Who knows?

[cba fan]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:58 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

liar.

Edited March 6, 2019 by cba fan

[Aussie Joe]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

"Worst Quarterback interview ever" was what Casserly said teams had told him on Murray. There was never any question that Rosen interviewed well at the combine. He was generally considered to have done very well there. 

 

Do you always believe what these media guys say as fact when they are quoting anonymous sources?

 

Casserley was telling us a week out from the draft last year that he had inside info the Jets were taking Rosen at 3..

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Aussie Joe

[Trogdor]

On 2/12/2019 at 5:27 PM, matter2003 said:

Future HOF Larry Fitzgerlad and All-Pro David Johnson are trash? Where can we find this type of "trash"??

Larry Fitz was injured as was the other top WR. David Johnson was a shell of himself. Probably because they have a worse line then the Bills. So yes, trash.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Do you always believe what these media guys say as fact when they are quoting anonymous sources?

 

Casserley was telling us a week out from the draft last year that he had inside info the Jets were taking Rosen at 3..

 

 

 

When it is only one source maybe not. There are multiple reporting Murray bombed the interviews.