Bills scored zero defensive or special teams TDs in 2018

[Dr. K]

I remember thinking at various times during the season that the Bills were not scoring any defensive touchdowns--no recovered fumbles for TD, no pick-sixes. But I did not make anything much of that at the time. 

 

Looking at their team stats, I see they scored none—zero, zilch, nada—the entire season. I can't remember that ever happening before in my more than fifty years of watching this team. It's just a statistical anomaly I'm sure, but it makes me think that this is another reason that, next season, when that's unlikely to happen again, they will be a better team. 

 

Likewise they scored zero kick return TDs, which is less of a surprise given their generally poor special teams play. I expect them to do better in this area as well, just as a matter of luck if nothing else. 

[thebandit27]

I don't think it's a huge difference from 2017. From what I recall they had 2 defensive TDs and zero ST TDs 

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I remember thinking at various times during the season that the Bills were not scoring any defensive touchdowns--no recovered fumbles for TD, no pick-sixes. But I did not make anything much of that at the time. 

 

Looking at their team stats, I see they scored none—zero, zilch, nada—the entire season. I can't remember that ever happening before in my more than fifty years of watching this team. It's just a statistical anomaly I'm sure, but it makes me think that this is another reason that, next season, when that's unlikely to happen again, they will be a better team. 

 

Likewise they scored zero kick return TDs, which is less of a surprise given their generally poor special teams play. I expect them to do better in this area as well, just as a matter of luck if nothing else. 

 

Odds are you see 1-2 defensive scores next year. Probably not a kick return, but it’s possible.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

26th in sacks doesn't help.

[Your Brown Eye]

Trust the Process

[Beast]

They used them all up in practice when Peterman was here.

[Dr. K]

36 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I don't think it's a huge difference from 2017. From what I recall they had 2 defensive TDs and zero ST TDs 

One of those plays can turn a game. The difference between 2 and 0 is not insignificant. 

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

One of those plays can turn a game. The difference between 2 and 0 is not insignificant. 

 

Oh I agree. I just meant that we weren't talking about a big shift from a team that was 2018 Bears-like in their ability to score on defense to a team that doesn't score on D.

 

Some great Ds aren't the scoring type. The Seattle teams weren't known for scoring on D, but they routinely finished near the top of the league in PPG allowed, sacks, and turnovers.

[row_33]

Most games were early into garbagetime, or the Pats twice laughed without taking risks against the Bills

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

23 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

They used them all up in practice when Peterman was here.

But that’s just the crazy part—NP was an All-Pro in practices and preseason, pretty much always. How he kept getting starting chances for the real games 

[TPS]

Wonder How many other teams had no def/st tds?

 

[Boca BIlls]

11 minutes ago, TPS said:

Wonder How many other teams had no def/st tds?

 

http://games.espn.com/ffl/leaders?slotCategoryId=16&sortMap=AAAAARgAAAAIAQALc3BsaXRUeXBlSWQDAAAAAAEAC3N0YXRRdWVyeUlkAwAAAAEBABBzdGF0U291cmNlVHlwZUlkAwAAAAABAAtzb3J0QXZlcmFnZQkAAQAMc3RhdFNlYXNvbklkAwAAB%2BIBAAZjb2x1bW4DAAAAaQEACGNhdGVnb3J5AwAAAAEBAAlkaXJlY3Rpb24D%2F%2F%2F%2F%2Fw%3D%3D

 

 

Only 4 teams didnt have a defensive/st score.

 

Bills

Browns

Colts

Eagles

[Dr. K]

The weird thing is that the Bills were second in the league in forced fumbles with 24 and tied for seventh in interceptions with 16. It's actually pretty remarkable that they never scored on any of these plays. You'd almost have to TRY not to score in order to go 0 for 40. That's why i say it's a statistical anomaly. 

 

By the way, stats say the Bills recovered one fumble for a TD, but that was by Jason Croom when Zay Jones fumbled at the goal line on an offensive play. Not a defensive recovery for TD. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Dr. K

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I remember thinking at various times during the season that the Bills were not scoring any defensive touchdowns--no recovered fumbles for TD, no pick-sixes. But I did not make anything much of that at the time. 

 

Looking at their team stats, I see they scored none—zero, zilch, nada—the entire season. I can't remember that ever happening before in my more than fifty years of watching this team. It's just a statistical anomaly I'm sure, but it makes me think that this is another reason that, next season, when that's unlikely to happen again, they will be a better team. 

 

Likewise they scored zero kick return TDs, which is less of a surprise given their generally poor special teams play. I expect them to do better in this area as well, just as a matter of luck if nothing else. 

 

How does this compare to the rest of the league? Are the Bills all alone in this category, or are there other teams in the same boat?

1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

http://games.espn.com/ffl/leaders?slotCategoryId=16&sortMap=AAAAARgAAAAIAQALc3BsaXRUeXBlSWQDAAAAAAEAC3N0YXRRdWVyeUlkAwAAAAEBABBzdGF0U291cmNlVHlwZUlkAwAAAAABAAtzb3J0QXZlcmFnZQkAAQAMc3RhdFNlYXNvbklkAwAAB%2BIBAAZjb2x1bW4DAAAAaQEACGNhdGVnb3J5AwAAAAEBAAlkaXJlY3Rpb24D%2F%2F%2F%2F%2Fw%3D%3D

 

Only 4 teams didnt have a defensive/st score.

 

Bills

Browns

Colts

Eagles

 

Answers my question. Two of those were playoff teams. My guess is that it doesn't matter a ton. Nice to have scoring defenses and special teams, but that doesn't move the needle all that much unless they are really going crazy and scoring a bunch. The defenses job is to stop the opposing offense from scoring. I they are good at that they'll be a good defense.

Edited January 27, 2019 by MJS

[iinii]

Turnovers are essential for true defensive domination and the least predictable, which make defenses like sexy girlfriends:fun, great to look at, but somewhat unpredictable. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

26th in sacks doesn't help.

A bit misleading as was pointed out how few pass attempts they faced. As a percent of pass play they actually ranked quite high in pressures/sacks.

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

26th in sacks doesn't help.

26th in sacks is the corollary. While ST/D TD's are pretty random, the best way to get em is to whip opposing QB's. Gotta add some personnel in this dept.

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

A bit misleading as was pointed out how few pass attempts they faced. As a percent of pass play they actually ranked quite high in pressures/sacks.

Fair point. Still want to add a pass rusher.

[apuszczalowski]

It's a huge deal when your team cant score in offence to have a defence who isn't putting up points too.....

[C.Biscuit97]

You should never count on DSTs tds.  They are fairly fluky and not consistent season to season. 

[The Red King]

This is why we need a monster pass rusher.  I think our secondary can make plays, but when opposing QBs can set up lawn chairs, sip iced tea and read a book until someone comes open...it ain't gonna matter who's in coverage.

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

But that’s just the crazy part—NP was an All-Pro in practices and preseason, pretty much always. How he kept getting starting chances for the real games 

 

I have thought about that myself, I do not think they just decided to start Peterman out of the blue, he was earning their trust with his practice reps. The only thing I can think of is that there was just too much of a difference between the intensity and chaos going up against our scout team and facing real defenses.

I particularly do not envision pocket-collapsing effort happening in practices and when that happened in games Peterman lost that practice-level poise and became the stat-padding, interception-throwing machine that had defensive backs and safeties salivating across the league to go up against him.

 

There is something to be said for having the kind of depth to have a decent scout team, then again Allen and Barkley found a way to move our offense sans all the turnovers. Allen had his pocket-presence and legs to get him out of trouble, and Barkley seemed to have a better grasp of where to go with the ball and getting it out of his hands quickly.

[Dr. K]

2 minutes ago, The Red King said:

This is why we need a monster pass rusher.  I think our secondary can make plays, but when opposing QBs can set up lawn chairs, sip iced tea and read a book until someone comes open...it ain't gonna matter who's in coverage.

The Bills are causing plenty of turnovers. The fact that last season they did not turn any into TDs is an anomaly, not some result of an ineffective pass rush. I'd like to see them do better in that department, and I'm happy with them drafting a pass rusher or two, given Hughes isn't getting any younger and Lorax is 35, but the lack of scoring from the defense--when the Bills got 40 turnovers from their opponents—is not because their pass rush was bad. 

 

Plus, they themselves turned over the ball too much, but I expect that to get better. Eleven of the 23 pass interceptions the Bills threw were by Peterman and Anderson.

[billsfan_34]

But allowed huge chunks of yards on punt/kick returns. Constantly held/blocked in the back. Muffed snaps too, dont forget those. Oh, whens the last time they blocked a punt or FG? McClappy should of fired Crossman as soon as he was hired- huge mistake.

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, Dr. K said:

One of those plays can turn a game. The difference between 2 and 0 is not insignificant. 

 

Or they can happen in a blowout and be totally insignificant. It’s all about timing in such a rare play.

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, Dr. K said:

One of those plays can turn a game. The difference between 2 and 0 is not insignificant. 

 

 

It's not insignificant, but it can be very dependent on luck.

 

For instance, the 2017 Bills put up one pick-six and two fumble returns for TDs. How? Well, they managed 17 INTs and 16 forced fumbles. Pretty good.

 

How about the 2018 Bills? 16 INTs and 23 forced fumbles. But, wait, that's better, right? Yup.

 

But how far you can run with an INT or a fumble is based largely on how many people are around you, who sees the fumble what yard-line it all happens at, which side recovers the fumble, and a ton of other stuff, most of it pretty luck-based.