Allen vs. Darnold: Analysts Evaluate the Present and Predict the Future

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The ST is the reason this game was a loss.

 

Period, end of discussion.

 

-6 points on two missed FG, and a TD drive that started in the red zone. Just garbage.

 

Can’t let the vaunted D off the hook that easily. They had a huge hand in the outcome today. 

[Bob in STL]

Ok, without Allen the Bills lose by a lot and never even have a lead.  Allen did a lot with his feet.  His passing was ok, but the fumble, the INTs are  big negative.  He had a few good throws and a few bad ones. 

 

Darnold won on the road.  He had two great drives in the 4th quarter for TDs to come from behind.  Sure he had good field position most of the game.  Sure He had time to throw and he took what was there.  He looked poised and made fewer bad plays than Allen.

 

Buffalo was supposed to have a strong defense and a loud home crowd.  Darnold had no pressure and the crowd was not a factor. 

 

Round 1 to Darnold. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Bob in STL

[The Frankish Reich]

So ... if we had a 2018 draft do-over today, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest the following order of the 2018 QBs:

1. Mayfield

2. Darnold

3. Allen

4. Rosen

5. Jackson

In other words, so far the GMs/scouts appear to have gotten it right.

[Boatdrinks]

18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

So ... if we had a 2018 draft do-over today, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest the following order of the 2018 QBs:

1. Mayfield

2. Darnold

3. Allen

4. Rosen

5. Jackson

In other words, so far the GMs/scouts appear to have gotten it right.

For the moment, yes. Darnold should be ahead of Allen right now. He played at USC, and has better protection from his OL. I’d guess without watching all Jets games that their WRs drop far fewer passes as well. Darnold didn’t appear light years ahead of Allen overall, so I’d still say that JA could eclipse Darnold as a QB with more development and better protection. We will know in a few years. Until that point, this list is pretty much a power ranking of QBs. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Long way to go before we know anything.

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

For the moment, yes. Darnold should be ahead of Allen right now. He played at USC, and has better protection from his OL. I’d guess without watching all Jets games that their WRs drop far fewer passes as well. Darnold didn’t appear light years ahead of Allen overall, so I’d still say that JA could eclipse Darnold as a QB with more development and better protection. We will know in a few years. Until that point, this list is pretty much a power ranking of QBs. 

I agree. For me, the good news is this: if we had a draft do-over, I'm confident that Mayfield/Darnold/Allen would all have gone in the first 5 (Giants and Broncos in the QB mix) instead of the first 7. They've all shown they belong. Only Mayfield looks like a guy who's comfortable operating an NFL offense in all its complexity. Allen in particular is still making most of his positive contributions on plays that break down rather than on plays that work by design. That's a tribute to his athletic talent and general football sense, but that's not usually a recipe for long term success. But much of that is on this generally talent-less offense, so it's hard to tell how much progress Allen has made.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, PeterDude said:

Allen is trash compared to Darnold, time will prove that out.

 

Allen is a 50% completion running QB, he will be out of the league in 2-3 years, Darnold will likely play 10+ years for the Jets.

 

7 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

You are 100% correct.

 

I cannot understand what Buffalo Bills fans see in QB Josh Allen.

 

 

You guys are nutty, or trolls, or Jets fans.

 

Actually, based off that last sentence, it's clear PearlHowardMan is NOT a Bills fan.

 

The simple truth is this: Allen vs Darnold is the new Kelly vs Marino.

 

Anyone who bothered watching that game today knows the Bills lost because our Special Teams sucks and our WRs/TEs can't catch.

 

Allen IS our offense. 

 

I think today made me even more excited about Allen and even more convinced that next year he's going to have a great year and put this team in serious contention.

 

Regardless, the next 10-15 years of Allen vs Darnold should be fun.

6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Long way to go before we know anything.

 

Again, reminding me of the whole Kelly vs Marino thing. These guys are gonna love competing against one another foe years to come.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

You guys are nutty, or trolls, or Jets fans.

 

Actually, based off that last sentence, it's clear PearlHowardMan is NOT a Bills fan.

 

The simple truth is this: Allen vs Darnold is the new Kelly vs Marino.

 

Anyone who bothered watching that game today knows the Bills lost because our Special Teams sucks and our WRs/TEs can't catch.

 

Allen IS our offense. 

 

I think today made me even more excited about Allen and even more convinced that next year he's going to have a great year and put this team in serious contention.

 

Regardless, the next 10-15 years of Allen vs Darnold should be fun.

 

Again, reminding me of the whole Kelly vs Marino thing. These guys are gonna love competing against one another foe years to come.

 

Slow down!  Far too early to know whether either will approach the lofty perch of those HoF QBs. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Slow down!  Far too early to know whether either will approach the lofty perchouof those HoF QBs. 

You are right as far as the "prove it" part but

 

"reminds me of"

 

Both in the same division.....both first round picks  drafted in what was supposed to be a QB draft

 

So....I get the comparison

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You are right as far as the "prove it" part but

 

"reminds me of"

 

Both in the same division.....both first round picks  drafted in what was supposed to be a QB draft

 

So....I get the comparison

 

I don't.  Mark Sanchez and EJ Manuel say "Hello".   Class of '83 has no equal. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't.  Mark Sanchez and EJ Manuel say "Hello".   Class of '83 has no equal. 

Has not equal yet....and Sanchez and Manuel came from what ended up being a very poor QB draft

 

Time will tell I guess

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Big Blitz]

Rosen sucks.

 

That is all.

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

They're Josh Allen Kool-Aid drinkers, for sure!

 

Why are you here?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Why are you here?

to pee in the Kool-Aid just like he does after every game.

[PolishPrince]

7 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Ok, without Allen the Bills lose by a lot and never even have a lead.  Allen did a lot with his feet.  His passing was ok, but the fumble, the INTs are  big negative.  He had a few good throws and a few bad ones. 

 

Darnold won on the road.  He had two great drives in the 4th quarter for TDs to come from behind.  Sure he had good field position most of the game.  Sure He had time to throw and he took what was there.  He looked poised and made fewer bad plays than Allen.

 

Buffalo was supposed to have a strong defense and a loud home crowd.  Darnold had no pressure and the crowd was not a factor. 

 

Round 1 to Darnold. 

 

 

"looked poised and made fewer bad plays" and "Darnold had no pressure, good field position all game."

You dont think maybe one of these above led to the other? From pretty much first snap Allen got his ass kicked by the Jets D due to our complete lack of a line. Then factor in about 6 terrible drops right in the hands... meanwhile darnold's WR are making high extended contested grabs on our DB's. If Allen gets ANY help from this team, its a blow out.

I still dont get all these people ranking Darnold ahead of Allen after one game, where the rest of the Bills decided to not show up. The same people gripe about Allen's accuracy, meanwhile Darnold LEADS THE LEAGUE IN INTERCEPTIONS - and he has missed 4 games lol

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

33 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Rosen sucks.

 

That is all.

 

I said it in the GDT and I’ll say it again here:

 

Rosen would literally be dead at this point behind this OL ? 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I said it in the GDT and I’ll say it again here:

 

Rosen would literally be dead at this point behind this OL ? 

Or we would be hating on him something fierce because of his pedestrian numbers despite supposidly being more pro ready

 

and wishing we would have drafted Josh Allen because of his physical talents and running ability.....and commenting about his upside....and his cannon arm lol

[Victory Formation]

Prognosis is good for Darnold and Allen. Both will be above average.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Slow down!  Far too early to know whether either will approach the lofty perch of those HoF QBs. 

 

Nah... I think the whole idea that even making a statement like this vodoos the whole idea is pretty ridiculous.

 

I'm saying exactly what I think is going to happen. 

 

Allen will be our Franchise QB.

 

Darnold will be the Jets' Franchise QB.

 

Same division and same draft class ala Kelly and Marino.

 

The comparison is a pretty obvious one, I think.

[Patriot Killa]

I think Allen showed us Jets fans something new and I think Darnold may have shown some of you guys something new.

 

I disliked Allen the entire pre-draft process but he can ball. He seems to throw at his WR rather than throwing with anticipation but he wasn’t going to come in as a polished passer straight out of college anyway. Will he ever elevate to doing those types of things with consistency? I’m not sure. Not because I doubt but simply because I don’t watch him every Sunday as you all do so that is up to you to decide more so than me.

 

Allen showed he can really hurt a Defense in multiple ways and he’s throw some pretty passes too. I think his WR’s had a few drops so that didn’t help his final stat line but he played with his head on fire in the first half.

 

As for Sammy, I think he also showed as previously advertised in college. He extended plays, he throw some jaw dropping throws and he threw a few head scratchers along with it. That interception to Edmonds was just awful. Looked like a rookie mistake — it was similar to Allen’s first interception. Then he threw a duck that could of been pulled in by your DB. Hey, luckily for us, he didn’t hold onto it. That’s just apart of the game. We’d be here for entirely too long if we wanted to sit and count “almost picks” out of any NFL QB’s season.

 

I think he may have shown some of you that he’s definitely got the ability to play big in this league. I think Allen showed you the exact same thing. These two guys clearly need weapons, better OL reinforcement as well as some creative offensive play calling. They are both still pieces of clay needing to be molded into something special but have both shown very optimistic flashes.

 

I hate to sound so homer-ish but boy that crazy Brett Favre/Frank Tarkenton/Steve Young type TD was jaw dropping. And Allen destroyed us with his athleticism all day. I cannot deny. Both QB’s have a future if their respective franchises can help them out along the way. Anyways, I think it’s agrees both our teams need work, we both sit at 4-9 and at the bottom of the AFC East but I don’t think Miami has the QB to take advantage of their decent roster and Brady won’t be around much longer. 

 

It’s a race for the better built roster between our teams if you ask me! Because Allen and Darnold have solved the QB vacancy.

 

thanks for reading, all the best.

 

— Jets fan

Edited December 10, 2018 by Patriot Killa

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I will take Allen all day and i was huge Darnold fan his freshman year. Even though Allen had more picks it was clear from watching the game he is the better QB. 

 

I hope Darnold turns out good so we can have a good rivalry, cheers.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I will take Allen all day and i was huge Darnold fan his freshman year. Even though Allen had more picks it was clear from watching the game he is the better QB. 

 

I hope Darnold turns out good so we can have a good rivalry, cheers.

As obvious bias will tell you, I like our guy a little more but cannot deny that Allen is very gifted and it’s easy to see why Bills fans feel good about their guy. 

 

As for the bolded text,

 

Absolutely.

 

This is something that our fan bases desperately needed prior to the draft. It’s been awhile since either team has had QBs who really have the potential that Darnold/Allen have. Both teams have had their share of busts and journeymen in the recent years and I think it’s finally good to have hope. 

 

I think Sam and Josh needed to throw some of these interceptions that they have thrown this year because it’s showing them what they can and can’t get away with on this level of the game and ultimately it will make them better QB’s for it.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

As obvious bias will tell you, I like our guy a little more but cannot deny that Allen is very gifted and it’s easy to see why Bills fans feel good about their guy. 

 

As for the bolded text,

 

Absolutely.

 

This is something that our fan bases desperately needed prior to the draft. It’s been awhile since either team has had QBs who really have the potential that Darnold/Allen have. Both teams have had their share of busts and journeymen in the recent years and I think it’s finally good to have hope. 

 

I think Sam and Josh needed to throw some of these interceptions that they have thrown this year because it’s showing them what they can and can’t get away with on this level of the game and ultimately it will make them better QB’s for it.

 

Agreed, Allen has been pretty good avoiding turnovers but it got him today, will teach him sometimes its better to throw it away. Haven't seen Darnold much this year but heard he had some clunkers but as you said its a learning experience and supporting casts need upgrades.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

I thought the 2nd half yesterday was the best Darnold has played since week 1. He was really impressive. 

 

Josh had some bad turnovers trying to force plays but he played well yesterday too. It is really hard to evaluate him with so little talent around him. He is our best offensive weapon by far. 

 

And just finally Mr Jets fan.... Robby Anderson is a stud. If Darnols and he get some chemistry going then watch out. 

[Patriot Killa]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I thought the 2nd half yesterday was the best Darnold has played since week 1. He was really impressive. 

 

Josh had some bad turnovers trying to force plays but he played well yesterday too. It is really hard to evaluate him with so little talent around him. He is our best offensive weapon by far. 

 

And just finally Mr Jets fan.... Robby Anderson is a stud. If Darnols and he get some chemistry going then watch out. 

I love me some Robby. He only does a few things as a WR though. Probably a good #2 WR. Quincy Enunwa is probably a good #2 as well. 

 

This WR draft class is super underrated if you ask me. Plenty of opportunities to get a solid guy or two. I just don’t trust Mike Maccagnan to actually pick the right ones lol. 

 

That Robert Foster isn’t too shabby, himself. Got open well for Allen. 

 

[jr1]

Josh will be better when he doesn't have a QB coach who last coached QBs in the Reagan years and some (*^*&%^$^#OL coach

[Scott7975]

I'm looking forward to Brady retiring and having a Kelly/Marino type thing between our two teams for the next decade.  Both QBs are showing promise and just need some pieces around them and good coaching I think.  As a Jets fan, how do you and other fans feel about your head coach?

[row_33]

Enjoyed watching both QBs yesterday, lots of potential here to lead the next decade of football

 

[Patriot Killa]

27 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm looking forward to Brady retiring and having a Kelly/Marino type thing between our two teams for the next decade.  Both QBs are showing promise and just need some pieces around them and good coaching I think.  As a Jets fan, how do you and other fans feel about your head coach?

Worst coach since Kotite. Maybe not as bad but he’s around that level. Just horrid in game decision making, horrid feel for the situation, no adjustments, terrible stubbornness to play vets over developing young guys. 

 

Guy is the worst! And the OC Bates is just as bad. I’m praying that we get rid of him as soon as Week 17 finishes.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I love me some Robby. He only does a few things as a WR though. Probably a good #2 WR. Quincy Enunwa is probably a good #2 as well. 

 

This WR draft class is super underrated if you ask me. Plenty of opportunities to get a solid guy or two. I just don’t trust Mike Maccagnan to actually pick the right ones lol. 

 

That Robert Foster isn’t too shabby, himself. Got open well for Allen. 

 

 

I wanted us to draft Robby here. That he went undrafted does not reflect well on the talent evaluators in the league.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wanted us to draft Robby here. That he went undrafted does not reflect well on the talent evaluators in the league.

Think he had some off the field concerns and that is why he went undrafted. 

 

which makes sense being that he’s had some at the pro level too.

 

your whole 53 man roster aren’t going to be saints and angels though so as long as he keeps clean and performs, I don’t mind him getting a 3 year deal as much as some other Jet fans might mind. Of course some offset language would have to be involved like voiding his guaranteed money if he is arrested and things of that nature.

 

he can fly though.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Patriot Killa

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Think he had some off the field concerns and that is why he went undrafted. 

 

 

Okay, I don't remember those... both the incidents I know of were post draft. And even with a few off the field concerns his talents should have made him draftable. If you Jets fans don't want him I would gladly take him off your hands and put him in a Bills uni.

[Apocalypse Nuts]

I like the OP's perspective and analysis.  Seems to have more brains than a lot of Bills fans here IMO.  I can definitely respect the big picture view here vs nit-picking and focusing ridiculously on each little mistake as if it's the end of the universe.   These guys are rookies!   Give them a chance, eh? 

 

This draft is turning out to be as-advertised for QB's so far so anyone who got in on the action has some fun years ahead.  Darnold was my favorite pre-draft and he's the real-deal.  I'm only mad he's in our division for the next 6-10 years but at least he's not f___ing Brady.  The Bills made a great decision, clearly.  Allen has a lot of improving to do, of course.  But let's not forget how little high-level football he's actually played in his life.  No wonder he's so raw.  But it's obvious now why they say he has so much upside.  He's got that fire like I've rarely seen in sports, especially in Buffalo at the QB position.  McBeane got this one totally right. 

 

There's actually another thread by some joker calling for Barkley to start the last games.  WTF?   Some people just have no clue.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Generic Screen Name 2

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay, I don't remember those... both the incidents I know of were post draft. And even with a few off the field concerns his talents should have made him draftable. If you Jets fans don't want him I would gladly take him off your hands and put him in a Bills uni.

Maccagnan was actually offered a 4th rounder for him by the Eagles. We passed on the offer. My guess is that we are going to put the 2nd round tender on him and then make a decision on a extension the year after.

[Beast]

That long pass Darnold threw on the last drive....that was amazing.

[Doc Brown]

This is way too friendly for a Jets/Bills fan message board debate.  Darnold's ceiling is Matthew Stafford and Allen's ceiling is GOAT.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Nah... I think the whole idea that even making a statement like this vodoos the whole idea is pretty ridiculous.

 

I'm saying exactly what I think is going to happen. 

 

Allen will be our Franchise QB.

 

Darnold will be the Jets' Franchise QB.

 

Same division and same draft class ala Kelly and Marino.

 

The comparison is a pretty obvious one, I think.

 

We all hope this is true. Let it play out as they both have quite a bit to learn and the respective teams have plenty of work to do to build up the supporting casts. 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

This is way too friendly for a Jets/Bills fan message board debate.  Darnold's ceiling is Matthew Stafford and Allen's ceiling is GOAT.

There's someone stoking the fire.  Had to happen sometime. 

[AllenWillBust]

1 minute ago, Generic Screen Name 2 said:

I like the OP's perspective and analysis.  Seems to have more brains than a lot of Bills fans here IMO.

 

That's not very hard to accomplish.

 

In terms of Allen vs. Darnold, in the long run a 50% completion rate isn't going to get you anywhere in the league. Allen can run around all he wants and many Bills fans will call him a playmaker, but he needs to make plays with his arm not legs. He's had the opportunity to do so in the last two weeks and has failed both times with errant throws. He will eventually wash out, and will take the FO with him.