Josh Allen's progress

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Another game, another loss until next season, when josh allen is a “2019 mvp candidate” or any other number of ridiculous threads about how Allen is the second coming.

 

I’m guessing those people won’t be commenting.

 

With NFL caliber WR’s he has a couple more TD’s and another 100 yards passing. Far from a Finished product, but hopeful. 

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

for starters, how about not blowing smoke up their ***** when they absolutely stunk out there today. he could have chosen just not to comment on the defense at all.

 

He owned up to his performance (which wasn’t as bad as the haters want to believe - he got ZERO help!) and he refused to throw anyone under the bus. EXACTLY what I want from the leader of the franchise. Was he a little generous in praise? Sure, but I’d rather he lean that way that towards all the Fire Everyone Crowd. 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

Get over it, there were ugly stretches for sure, but what do you want the QB to say? After the O put up a whopping 13 points (through no fault of his own), it’s a terrible look to call out the D. He did the right thing. 

He always says the right things. He takes the blame as a leader does but I wish someone else would call out these worthless wrs/te's for their garbage play. I guess it doesn't matter because most of them will be cut in the offseason anyway.

[Magox]

20 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Another game, another loss until next season, when josh allen is a “2019 mvp candidate” or any other number of ridiculous threads about how Allen is the second coming.

 

I’m guessing those people won’t be commenting.

I'm here.

 

Are you blind or just a blowhard?

 

He had a dropped pass by McKenzie that would have been a first down that killed the drive to open the game.

 

He had a perfect beautiful bomb on the following drive that should have been a touchdown that Foster couldnt come up with the play.

 

Ge had another third down pass to the endzone with foster matched up one on one that hit Fosters finger tips.

 

He had another pass in the endzone to McKenzie where he was pass interfered.

 

He had another perfect  behind the shoulder pass to Logan that went squarely through his hands.

 

He had another pass after a nice drive where Croom fumbled on the 5 yard line.

 

Allen certainly made a few bad decisions but if this team could have had players to make plays today this would have been a close game.

 

There was plenty in there today to be hopeful about.

 

 

 

 

[Trogdor]

18 minutes ago, Augie said:

Get over it, there were ugly stretches for sure, but what do you want the QB to say? After the O put up a whopping 13 points (through no fault of his own), it’s a terrible look to call out the D. He did the right thing. 

Do you honestly believe that today wasn't his fault? I mean do 2 interceptions not count against him? He didn't look good when he had time and they made him into a passer. 

 

That level of ineptitude is a team effort, so I'm not laying it all at his feet. However he wasn't good today.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Trogdor

[JoPar_v2]

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Ugh, not a hater, and not sure he’s the second coming. Why do people have to go to such extremes in life. I’m encouraged in many ways, but far from sure about what we have in Josh. It’s OK to be encouraged and wait to see how it turns out. 

 

Agree with you and I know anything less than universal praise will get you killed here.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Do you honestly believe that today wasn't his fault? I mean do 2 interceptions not count against him? He didn't look good when he had time and they made him into a passer. 

 

He’s a rookie against BB, and his WR’s dropped multiple TD’s. He is EXPECTED to make mistakes! How do people NOT get that???

[Foxx]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

...He owned up to his performance (which wasn’t as bad as the haters want to believe - he got ZERO help!) and he refused to throw anyone under the bus. EXACTLY what I want from the leader of the franchise. Was he a little generous in praise? Sure, but I’d rather he lean that way that towards all the Fire Everyone Crowd. 

im just not for praising something that was clearly dog ***** out there today. like i said, he would have been much better off not trying to blow smoke up their *****. they were pretty bad out there today.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Agree with you and I know anything less than universal praise will get you killed here.

 

Too bad that’s not true.  People who were getting “killed” were mostly spewing nonsense and cherry picking things to sell their predraft CONCLUSION that Allen would be and is a bust were the ones getting “killed”.  Wonder what camp you fall into?

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

I'm here.

 

Are you blind or just a blowhard?

 

He had a dropped pass by McKenzie that would have been a first down that killed the drive to open the game.

 

He had a perfect beautiful bomb on the following drive that should have been a touchdown that Foster couldnt come up with the play.

 

Ge had another third down pass to the endzone with foster matched up one on one that hit Fosters finger tips.

 

He had another pass in the endzone to McKenzie where he was pass interfered.

 

He had another perfect  behind the shoulder pass to Logan that went squarely through his hands.

 

He had another pass after a nice drive where Croom fumbled on the 5 yard line.

 

Allen certainly made a few bad decisions but if this team could have had players to make plays today this would have been a close game.

 

There was plenty in there today to be hopeful about.

 

 

 

 

 

I am hopeful for the kid too. Never said I wasn’t. I was only referring to the hyperbolic threads that get posted about this kid every time he throws for over 200 yards. I just assume to be measured and optimistic as opposed to a homer simpleton.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Agree with you and I know anything less than universal praise will get you killed here.

 

The truth is in the middle somewhere at this point, and we don’t know which way it will end. 

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

im just not for praising something that was clearly dog ***** out there today. like i said, he would have been much better off not trying to blow smoke up their *****. they were pretty bad out there today.

 

Well, maybe you should take up playing QB so you can handle it the way you like....in your rec league press conferences. 

 

I’ll have to bail out now until people can get their acts together.......

 

A rookie QB with zero help losing to BB is not the end of the world. 

[GunnerBill]

It was not a good day for Josh. Yes there were a few balls his receivers dropped but there were more that were off target and his decision making was bad. Belichick baits rookies and Josh fell into the traps. His worst game since Green Bay. 

 

Not a time to panic even QBs who are developing and go on to develop into something have the odd clanger on route. But equally no reason to try and dress up today as anything other than a bad one. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, Foxx said:

im just not for praising something that was clearly dog ***** out there today. like i said, he would have been much better off not trying to blow smoke up their *****. they were pretty bad out there today.

 

So it’s Allens fault that he had mutliple TDs dropped AGAIN today?  Was it his best game, nope.  But you are way over the top.  Struggles sure, but he’s a rookie with no help in Foxboro, not exactly a time to panic.

 

And its foolish to expect a rookie to have a better game each week.  He just went somewhere where BB is undefeated against rookie QBs and is regarded as the best in history at game planning against rookie QBs.   

 

I mean Allen is literally the whole offense.  Lot to ask of a kid to keep doing that every week with no help, let alone on the road in the Lions den in Foxboro.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

He’s a rookie against BB, and his WR’s dropped multiple TD’s. He is EXPECTED to make mistakes! How do people NOT get that???

But we shouldn't overlook the obvious mistakes that he made today.  The same ones that he made earlier in the season.  

 

He had a tough outing, and it wasn't all on his supporting cast.  

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It was not a good day for Josh. Yes there were a few balls his receivers dropped but there were more that were off target. His worst game since Green Bay. 

 

Not a time to panic even QBs who are developing and go on to develop into something have the odd clanger on route. But equally no reason to try and dress up today as anything other than a bad one. 

 

I see it as a little better than you seem to, but in the big picture I fully agree. It’s NOT the end of the world here, folks. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

He’s a rookie against BB, and his WR’s dropped multiple TD’s. He is EXPECTED to make mistakes! How do people NOT get that???

Exactly right.

 

Allen did not play a good game and made some bad throws.  Yet by my count he put the Bills in position to score 4 more TD's today: the 1st was the Sun pass to Foster; the 2nd was the jump ball on 4th & 4 to Foster;  the 3rd was the great throw that went right through 82's hands at the goal line & the 4th was the fumble by Croom at the NE 5.  Hell I'll throw in a 5th TD when the refs missed a blatant PI call on that pass to McKenzie in the end zone. 

 

Sure you can say I'm viewing the game through Allen tinted glasses but tell me this - if we had KC's WR's & TE's on the field today with those EXACT SAME Allen throws can you really argue that we wouldn't have had 4 more TD's? 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, GG said:

But we shouldn't overlook the obvious mistakes that he made today.  The same ones that he made earlier in the season.  

 

He had a tough outing, and it wasn't all on his supporting cast.  

 

Of course! FAR from perfect, which you just might expect from time to time, especially against BB. The trajectory will not be a straight line, in either direction. I’m NOT saying he’s the guy, just that today is not the answer to what he will be in 5 years. 

[hemma]

Somebody has to make a play.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that if it isn’t Allen, it won’t happen.

 

Badly need a couple of playmakers.  Somebody like Kamara would be a big help.

 

 

 

 

[JoPar_v2]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Too bad that’s not true.  People who were getting “killed” were mostly spewing nonsense and cherry picking things to sell their predraft CONCLUSION that Allen would be and is a bust were the ones getting “killed”.  Wonder what camp you fall into?

 

It is true and you’re one of the biggest perpetrators of it. And you used to be a good poster. Oh well. 

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So it’s Allens fault that he had mutliple TDs dropped AGAIN today?  Wasnit his best game, nope.  But you are way over the top.  

 

And its its utterly stupid to expect a rookie to have a better game each week.  He just went somewhere where BB IS UNDEFEATED against rookie QBs and is regarded as the best in history at game planning against rookie QBs.  

 

I called this earlier this week.  The haters were going to FLOOD the board at the first hiccup ignoring how much he’s shown since coming back from injury.  Most of you are barely heard from when he played well last 4 weeks, as soon as BB in NE found a way to hold up the offense, the “he’s a bust” crowd pounced while ignoring the drops, the dropped TDs, the OL, the terrible routes, etc that also did the kid NO favors.  

 

I mean Allen is LITERALLY the whole offense.  Lot

to ask of a kid to keep doing that every week with no help, let alone on the road in the Lions den in Foxboro.

lmao. nice strawman you have constructed here. i made no comment whatsoever on Josh's play in any of my statements here on this thread. in fact, i challenge you to find any post of mine where i state anything derogatorily regarding his play. you can't because i haven't.

 

if you had absolutely any reading comprehesion at all, you would understand i was speaking to the disservice he was doing to a defense that stunk really bad today.

 

care to try again?

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I see it as a little better than you seem to, but in the big picture I fully agree. It’s NOT the end of the world here, folks. 

 

Gunner wasn’t a big Allen fan to begin with, so he’s going to be more critical.  His opinion is a fair one, and his reasons are also fair, just pointing out that Gunner is going to be someone that will see a little more of the negative than positive given he’s still skeptical or cautiously optimistic.  

[CincyBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Do you honestly believe that today wasn't his fault? I mean do 2 interceptions not count against him? He didn't look good when he had time and they made him into a passer. 

 

That level of ineptitude is a team effort, so I'm not laying it all at his feet. However he wasn't good today.

The 2 INT's were very bad passes but they only led to 3 NE points. 

 

Allen also had several passes that on ALMOST ANY OTHER NFL TEAM would have resulted in TD's. 

[Chicken Boo]

Plenty of blame to go around, but not nearly enough heat on McBeane for getting this team nothing at the skill positions.

 

I don't see them fixing it this offseason with rookie draft picks either.  Another season of this and their seats should be red hot!

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

It is true and you’re one of the biggest perpetrators of it. And you used to be a good poster. Oh well. 

 

Come on, you know there is a ton of non sense out there.  I even called this earlier this week. I said watch, as soon as Josh has a hiccup the hater crowd will come out swinging and ignore all the positives and go back to the “see he is a bust” stance.  I mean just look at some of the posts and threads on the board right now.  

 

Its totally fair to be skeptical, not sold, etc.  But there are people who hated his pick on draft night that work over time to both prove he will be and even already a bust.  

 

Yet there is no one proclaiming hes a success and a finished product.  So sorry, anyone who makes any conclusive statement, good or bad, right now on Allens future is a complete fool.  And if you can’t wrap your mind around that then I don’t know what to tell you.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Gunner wasn’t a big Allen fan to begin with, so he’s going to be more critical.  His opinion is a fair one, and his reasons are also fair, just pointing out that Gunner is going to be someone that will see a little more of the negative than positive given he’s still skeptical or cautiously optimistic.  

 

Fair enough, and to be totally honest I was initially extremely skeptical of Allen, for the usual reasons. But this thread is “Josh Allen’s Progress”, and I’m pleasantly surprised with his progress. I’m not declaring him The Man, or anything. I just see better than I expected at this point. And of course it’s FAR from a finished product or sure thing. 

3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Plenty of blame to go around, but not nearly enough heat on McBeane for getting this team nothing at the skill positions.

 

I don't see them fixing it this offseason with rookie draft picks either.  Another season of this and their seats should be red hot!

 

Well, they did petition the league for an extra 5 draft picks and a complete exemption from all the dead cap space, but you know how Roger is.....

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Foxx said:

lmao. nice strawman you have constructed here. i made no comment whatsoever on Josh's play in any of my statements here on this thread. in fact, i challenge you to find any post of mine where i state anything derogatorily regarding his play. you can't because i haven't.

 

if you had absolutely any reading comprehesion at all, you would understand i was speaking to the disservice he was doing to a defense that stunk really bad today.

 

care to try again?

 

You weren’t the one I meant to respond to, I was scrolling on phone and replied to wrong one.  Which is why i was talking about the dropped TDs.  My bad

[JoPar_v2]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Come on, you know there is a ton of non sense out there.  I even called this earlier this week. I said watch, as soon as Josh has a hiccup the hater crowd will come out swinging and ignore all the positives and go back to the “see he is a bust” stance.  I mean just look at some of the posts and threads on the board right now.  

 

Its totally fair to be skeptical, not sold, etc.  But there are people who hated his pick on draft night that work over time to both prove he will be and even already a bust.  

 

Yet there is no one proclaiming hes a success and a finished product.  So sorry, anyone who makes any conclusive statement, good or bad, right now on Allens future is a complete fool.  And if you can’t wrap your mind around that then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

There are those people out there sure but they get shouted down pretty consistently, as they should. But there’s also people saying he’s a future all-pro, a future pro bowler, the best QB we’ve had since Kelly. I know you know this and you’ve seen the same **** I have. It’s one thing to be excited (I am too!) it’s another thing to be delusional.

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You weren’t the one I meant to respond to, I was scrolling on phone and replied to wrong one.  Which is why i was talking about the dropped TDs.  My bad

fair enough.

 

while you have my attention, weren't you one of the most vocal anti Josh posters here for awhile? my memory could be wrong though as this board has been mostly insufferable this year and i have not spent a lot of time on the stadium wall.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

There are those people out there sure but they get shouted down pretty consistently, as they should. But there’s also people saying he’s a future all-pro, a future pro bowler, the best QB we’ve had since Kelly. I know you know this and you’ve seen the same **** I have. It’s one thing to be excited (I am too!) it’s another thing to be delusional.

 

Yes, but you act like I tear down any criticisms.  The only people I was “killing” as you claimed were the ones spewing non sense.  Look at my posting history, I have said MANY times it’s totally fair to criticize, be skeptical, or not be sold on Josh.  He has a lot of work to do.  

 

At the same time though, it’s ridiculous to condemn the kid and proclaim him a bust like several posters here keep trying to do.  Just as it’s ridiculous for anyone to claim him to be a finished product.  But honestly, I don’t see a single person saying he’s there yet, I do see threads full of optimism, and what’s wrong with that?  Some are over the top sure, but none claim he’s a pro bowler now unlike those claiming he IS a bust now.  

[DuckyBoys]

I still saw progress even today  He kept his eyes down field on the td to Zay.  He didn't flee a good pocket repeatedly.  I don't know we'll see a whole lot more till other issues get fixed in the off season.   He gave his guys plenty of opportunities to make some big plays but they just didn't get it done on the other end

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Foxx said:

fair enough.

 

while you have my attention, weren't you one of the most vocal anti Josh posters here for awhile? my memory could be wrong though as this board has been mostly insufferable this year and i have not spent a lot of time on the stadium wall.

 

No wasn’t me.  I was originally not interested in Josh at all when the season ended last year.  Through the draft process he won me over and going into the draft I had Mayfield #1 (as I did all CFB season really) and Allen #2 with darnold just behind him.  I wanted nothing to do with Rosen unless he fell to us without trading up.  So Allen won me over before draft and has continued to win me over since.  

 

He’s got work to do, but kid has shown a LOT to be excited about.  Can’t wait to see him with a full offseason as starter, season of experience, and more help around him.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[GG]

28 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Of course! FAR from perfect, which you just might expect from time to time, especially against BB. The trajectory will not be a straight line, in either direction. I’m NOT saying he’s the guy, just that today is not the answer to what he will be in 5 years. 

The biggest problem with today's game is that it was obvious that despite OBD saying that the game has slowed down for Allen, it wasn't the case at all.  

 

He didn't get any help at all, but he wasn't inspiring any confidence either. 

 

To me today he looked awfully like Losman in the hyped up 2007 Sunday night game vs Pats.  Brady in his prime blows today's game open in the 2nd quarter.

[JoPar_v2]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes, but you act like I tear down any criticisms.  The only people I was “killing” as you claimed were the ones spewing non sense.  Look at my posting history, I have said MANY times it’s totally fair to criticize, be skeptical, or not be sold on Josh.  He has a lot of work to do.  

 

At the same time though, it’s ridiculous to condemn the kid and proclaim him a bust like several posters here keep trying to do.  Just as it’s ridiculous for anyone to claim him to be a finished product.  But honestly, I don’t see a single person saying he’s there yet, I do see threads full of optimism, and what’s wrong with that?  Some are over the top sure, but none claim he’s a pro bowler now unlike those claiming he IS a bust now.  

 

I appreciate that and like I said I agree. I would shout down anyone saying Allen is a bust already as well - it’s way too early to tell. But you have seen the “allen is a 2019 mvp candidate” or the “allen/peterman=kelly/reich” threads...I know you have. I have too. And people in those threads trying to inject a little realism were called haters. 

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

The biggest problem with today's game is that it was obvious that despite OBD saying that the game has slowed down for Allen, it wasn't the case at all.  

 

He didn't get any help at all, but he wasn't inspiring any confidence either. 

 

To me today he looked awfully like Losman in the hyped up 2007 Sunday night game vs Pats.  Brady in his prime blows today's game open in the 2nd quarter.

i don't know where Allen will ultimately grade out, but i listened very carefully to what Bruce Ariens was saying when commenting on his game today. it seemed Ariens brought up some pretty good points. i think the kid can be good, i just don't know if this current staff is the right one to get him to where he needs to go, in the manner his needs to get there.

 

i'd hate to make another regime chnge after only two years but there are serious warning signs that McClappy and the boys might be out of their league in their current positions.

[Playoffs?]

Hot take: Allen needs a lot of work and the right coaching staff. I’m not confident in his ability to be a pro bowler yet, but also not yet confident in calling him a bust. 

 

But whether fair or not, if he doesn’t show signfinicant improvement next year, this fan base will be looking to run him and McBeane out of town... 

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

I appreciate that and like I said I agree. I would shout down anyone saying Allen is a bust already as well - it’s way too early to tell. But you have seen the “allen is a 2019 mvp candidate” or the “allen/peterman=kelly/reich” threads...I know you have. I have too. And people in those threads trying to inject a little realism were called haters. 

 

Honestly did not see the “Allen/Peterman = Kelly/Reich” thread.  Talk about an insult to Reich lol...

 

But the MVP thread was more about enthusiasm than a declaration, at least how I took it.  I don’t really see an issue with enthusiasm about the future, not like they are making concrete declarations of what he IS, just some people excited about what they believe he will become.  Other People are calling him a bust now though.

 

And honestly it’s possible for Allen to be in those convos next year.  Guys like Goff, Wentz, Carr and Mahomes all were in those convos 2nd year and most struggled as a rookie.  So is it a “lock” he will be, of course not, but this team has a lot of good bones around it similar to Rams and Bears during their QBs rookie years where they both struggled.  If we get Allen the right help this year, it’s not unreasonable to think he could take a big leap next year.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, GG said:

The biggest problem with today's game is that it was obvious that despite OBD saying that the game has slowed down for Allen, it wasn't the case at all.  

 

He didn't get any help at all, but he wasn't inspiring any confidence either. 

 

To me today he looked awfully like Losman in the hyped up 2007 Sunday night game vs Pats.  Brady in his prime blows today's game open in the 2nd quarter.

 

The great news is, Brady is on his decline, and hopefully Josh is on his ascent. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[LabattBlue]

Allen’s two INT’s were HORRIBLE...and without significant rushing yards his performances become well below average.  

 

 

He needs a LOT of improvement at the start of next season just to be a middle of the pack QB. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by LabattBlue

[CincyBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i don't know where Allen will ultimately grade out, but i listened very carefully to what Bruce Ariens was saying when commenting on his game today. it seemed Ariens brought up some pretty good points. i think the kid can be good, i just don't know if this current staff is the right one to get him to where he needs to go, in the manner his needs to get there.

 

i'd hate to make another regime chnge after only two years but there are serious warning signs that McClappy and the boys might be out of their league in their current positions.

Good point about Arian's.  Do you think he was auditioning for the Bills head coaching job?  he lavished a lot of praise on the Pegula's and the Bill's chances in the future. 

 

The sense I got from Arian's comments were that on the one hand he was frustrated with Allen but in a good way.  He kept comparing Allen's play to Andrew Luck's game when he was a rookie. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Josh Allen Week 16 Chart