THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - “Get Aboard the Josh Allen Train”

[hemma]

Almost like our crumbling OL forced him to play with his football instincts

and squeeze the lemon into lemonade.

 

Castillo?

[WhoTom]

30 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

I enjoyed the Allen review, but objective? I think we're all somewhat biased here, just saying...

 

 

Of course, everything is from a fan's point of view, but Shaw usually offers a balanced perspective on things. I don't always agree with his conclusions, but his reasoning is usually sound.

 

For example, in addition to the good points, he recognized the bad throws and acknowledged that there were probably some open receivers that Josh missed and some audibles that he should have made. Did he overlook any negatives that you saw? (Besides the running play that I mentioned.)

 

 

 

 

[Logic]

Thanks for the writeup as always, Shaw.

I was solidly in the "anyone but Allen" camp leading into the draft. The prospect of another big-armed, physically gifted QB who couldn't do the little things necessary to be successful was just too frightening to me, after the JP Losman and EJ Manuel debacles.

It is now obvious to me, after the Jacksonville game, that Allen has something that those guys did not have: HEART, WILL, and FEARLESSNESS.

I have been cautiously optimistic and impressed by some of the things Allen had done on the field prior to Sunday's game. But he was very up and down. Even the Minnesota game: It was encouraging, but the gameplan didn't ask him to do a lot and the defense kept giving Allen the ball deep in Vikings territory. But Sunday's game against Jacksonville? That was the first time I stood up and said "this kid's got it". When I say "it", I mean the ability to take a team completely on his back and will them to victory. And make no mistake, that's what happened against the Jaguars. They have an absolutely all-world defense, with speed in bunches and 1st round picks all over the field. Put simply, the Bills absolutely would not have won that game without Josh Allen. All three touchdown scoring drives happened because of Allen. The first TD drive saw Allen complete a 47-yard play to Kelvin Benjamin and a first down pass to Croom (with nice touch, by the way). The Foster play, well...just WOW. The 4th quarter scoring play may have looked easy, but it involved Allen stiff arming a big d-lineman to the ground, juking like a running back (as you said), and plowing through a linebacker. Not easy in the least. In between those scoring drives, he kept drives alive with his legs (even scrambling for a 45 yard gain at one point!), made smart decisions, took care of the football, and generally kept his team in position to win the game. 

But aside from his actual play on the field, it was the intangible stuff that showed up: His excitement after big plays and scores and his getting the crowd and his teammates pumped up. His "swag" on the 14-yard TD run. You think it was an accident that he did Jalen Ramsey's "flex" TD celebration after scoring? Nope. Underneath his "aw shucks" country boy demeanor lies a deeply competitive man with the heart of a lion and a will that one rarely sees in athletes. How could Allen's teammates watch him lay his body on the line play after play -- not sliding, but juking and stiff arming and always looking for more yardage -- how could they watch him WILL his offense to points again and again and not want to follow his example and lay THEIR bodies on the line every single play?

Heart, Will, Leadership by Example, Swag, and as Shady said: "He just brings that electricity". And how about the way the veterans talk about him? Hyde, Poyer, Lorenzo, Shady...they could give stock answers when asked about Allen, but they don't. They all rave about him and swear he has a bright future in this league. And these are professionals who know what they're talking about and who see him day in and day out in the locker room, in meetings, on the practice field. They all feel they're in good hands going forward. They're all inspired to fight for Allen on the field. And this is SIX AND A HALF GAMES into his rookie season! He has a fight in him and a will that I haven't seen since Fitzpatrick...the only difference is that Allen has quite a different set of physical gifts that Fitzy had!

I don't know if Allen will ever be a Brady or a Rodgers. He may never make "top 10" lists of the best quarterbacks in the league. But after Sunday, I'm standing up and taking notice, and I'm starting to believe that he can be the type of guy who -- by sheer force of will and heart and leadership, and by the power of game-breaking plays with his arm and legs -- can lead the Bills to the promised land.

I know, I know...he's a rookie. Gotta tempter expectations. But my antennae are up now. Allen's got....something.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks for the writeup as always, Shaw.

I was solidly in the "anyone but Allen" camp leading into the draft. The prospect of another big-armed, physically gifted QB who couldn't do the little things necessary to be successful was just too frightening to me, after the JP Losman and EJ Manuel debacles.

It is now obvious to me, after the Jacksonville game, that Allen has something that those guys did not have: HEART, WILL, and FEARLESSNESS.

I have been cautiously optimistic and impressed by some of the things Allen had done on the field prior to Sunday's game. But he was very up and down. Even the Minnesota game: It was encouraging, but the gameplan didn't ask him to do a lot and the defense kept giving Allen the ball deep in Vikings territory. But Sunday's game against Jacksonville? That was the first time I stood up and said "this kid's got it". When I say "it", I mean the ability to take a team completely on his back and will them to victory. And make no mistake, that's what happened against the Jaguars. They have an absolutely all-world defense, with speed in bunches and 1st round picks all over the field. Put simply, the Bills absolutely would not have won that game without Josh Allen. All three touchdown scoring drives happened because of Allen. The first TD drive saw Allen complete a 47-yard play to Kelvin Benjamin and a first down pass to Croom (with nice touch, by the way). The Foster play, well...just WOW. The 4th quarter scoring play may have looked easy, but it involved Allen stiff arming a big d-lineman to the ground, juking like a running back (as you said), and plowing through a linebacker. Not easy in the least. In between those scoring drives, he kept drives alive with his legs (even scrambling for a 45 yard gain at one point!), made smart decisions, took care of the football, and generally kept his team in position to win the game. 

But aside from his actual play on the field, it was the intangible stuff that showed up: His excitement after big plays and scores and his getting the crowd and his teammates pumped up. His "swag" on the 14-yard TD run. You think it was an accident that he did Jalen Ramsey's "flex" TD celebration after scoring? Nope. Underneath his "aw shucks" country boy demeanor lies a deeply competitive man with the heart of a lion and a will that one rarely sees in athletes. How could Allen's teammates watch him lay his body on the line play after play -- not sliding, but juking and stiff arming and always looking for more yardage -- how could they watch him WILL his offense to points again and again and not want to follow his example and lay THEIR bodies on the line every single play?

Heart, Will, Leadership by Example, Swag, and as Shady said: "He just brings that electricity". And how about the way the veterans talk about him? Hyde, Poyer, Lorenzo, Shady...they could give stock answers when asked about Allen, but they don't. They all rave about him and swear he has a bright future in this league. And these are professionals who know what they're talking about and who see him day in and day out in the locker room, in meetings, on the practice field. They all feel they're in good hands going forward. They're all inspired to fight for Allen on the field. And this is SIX AND A HALF GAMES into his rookie season! He has a fight in him and a will that I haven't seen since Fitzpatrick...the only difference is that Allen has quite a different set of physical gifts that Fitzy had!

I don't know if Allen will ever be a Brady or a Rodgers. He may never make "top 10" lists of the best quarterbacks in the league. But after Sunday, I'm standing up and taking notice, and I'm starting to believe that he can be the type of guy who -- by sheer force of will and heart and leadership, and by the power of game-breaking plays with his arm and legs -- can lead the Bills to the promised land.

I know, I know...he's a rookie. Gotta tempter expectations. But my antennae are up now. Allen's got....something.

My goodness!!!   You got a bit worked up about this didn't you?

 

You described a whole side of this - his leadership, that we all hope for and wondered about.   But as you say so well, the evidence is already there that he has what it takes.   

 

You're right about Allen and Fitzy.   Fitzy was a big time competitor and it showed on the field every play.  Allen is showing it, too, with a different skill set.  

 

But we're Bills fans, and we've learned to expect the worst.   This can't be, can it?   We're all afraid to say it.   

 

Everything feels different when he's in the game.  

[SoCal Deek]

Logic...I agree.  The game doesn't appear to big for him, and he doesn't appear to be cocky about it.  The other thing I was thinking, while watching the game on Sunday, is that the Buffalo weather and small market size shouldn't be a factor for him, having played at Wyoming.

 

 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

My goodness!!!   You got a bit worked up about this didn't you?

 

Guilty.

When Allen went on the shelf with injury, it provided an interesting opportunity: To see his impact on the offense. Put a different way, I sort of thought the offense might IMPROVE while he was out. I thought maybe HE was what was holding the offense back. As anyone with eyes could tell you, that was NOT the case. As it turns out, the only thing that WAS giving our offense any life whatsoever was Allen. Yes, the infusion of speed in the WR corps has helped. But still, it's plain as day that Allen provides juice to this offense that it otherwise doesn't have. Just like at Wyoming, Allen is sometimes the only thing keeping his team's offense going. At times, it feels like a one-man show, or at least as much of one as there can be in such a team sport. So take that type of ability and leadership and heart and add some actual offensive TALENT and PROTECTION around him? Egads. THAT I'm looking forward to seeing!

And really, for a rookie coming off a month of being on the bench to will his team to victory against a top 5 defense...I just couldn't have been more impressed. A very encouraging day.
 

[DuckyBoys]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Ducky -

 

In response to you and transplant and others:  I'm a big believer that the passer rating tells us a lot about how good a QB is.   The best QBs all have good passer ratings, and some not so good QBs may have a good passer rating now and then  but don't stay up in the top 10-15.   Allen's passer rating is nowhere in the range it needs to be by those standards, so I thought a lot about whether to say the things I did about him before i started writing.   I just kept going back to the games, thinking about the plays and asking myself about the bad plays he made (I had trouble finding many), and if he wasn't making bad plays, why was he 8 for 19?   

 

Bottom line for me:

 

1.  He's showing some great, great stuff.   Throwing ability, poise and awareness, decision making, leadership.

2.  He ISN'T showing rookie mistakes.   Not taking dumb sacks, snot making dumb throws, not getting confused at the line of scrimmage.

3.  His shortcomings are, as I said talking with someone here, that he isn't a veteran yet.   The details, the little things, the things that veterans see and do that create three or four completions a game that rookies don't get, or that result in 20 yard gains instead of seven, he isn't seeing and doing that yet.   It would be a miracle if he were.   But I'm confident that will come, because he's clearly a competitor and a guy who wants to do better.  And his Wonderlic score says that he has the kind of brain that will allow him to do it.  

 

 

I just go with my eyes.  One can rationalize anything  Kid has the it factor. He's throwing downfield and the entire route tree is open  Once he works on the touch passes and pre snap reads he is going to be a nightmare.  You can call a deep out from the opposite hash and he can make the play  The defense is going to have to respect basically the entire field  Add to that the mobility and physicality.  He's smart and tough  Wait till we get receivers who can run after the catch and the O line gets shored up  Imagine if we could run like 2016/2017 and how open those deep strikes off play action would be.  I know there will be bumps and the haters will crawl back out but he has shown me enough.  You can't teach some of these throws he makes.   Plus most importantly I don't see the dumb rookie mistakes being repeated.  Some qbs can never escape the deer in the headlights mistakes  He doesn't seem to have that bad habit.   I'm super pumped to see how teams deal with their qb unable to throw in the frozen cold and this kid flinging the rock  His hands swallow the football

[stuvian]

nice to read about us winning the close ones for a change

[Whites Bay]

On 11/26/2018 at 5:20 PM, HOUSE said:

I hate trains, lousy food and dirty bathrooms

 

Weirdly, you've pretty much encapsulated a typical Amtrak experience in once sentence.

 

Thoughts:

 

1) Shaw - thank you.  A well thought out write up.

2) I have been pulling for Foster since preseason, and have the thread contributions to back it up.  I hope the kid continues to grow, because those legs and Allen's arm are going to be mind-twisting for defensive secondaries if they stay on the same page.  Talk about ripping the top off of defenses.

3) We're all agog about Allen's running ability, and we should be.  But I was blown away by Allen's SPEED on the 45-yard run.  It wasn't Chris Berman's "Rumblin' Bumblin' Stumblin"", but it also wasn't darting around like RG III in his heyday (when he had knees).  One second Allen was in the backfield, and the next second he was FLYING past linebackers.  I mean...they weren't going to catch him once he opened it up.  He looked like Eric Dickerson out there - a very big man running upright with deceptive, quiet speed.

 

 

[WhoTom]

That's a lot of emotion coming from a guy named "Logic." Good thing you ditched the Spock avatar. ?

 

But seriously, that was a great write-up. Like you, I've been reluctant to get burned on another false-hope QB, but Josh is really making a case for being the real thing.

 

 

[Shaw66]

One other thing I forgot in the OP.  Daboll.

 

I don't think the change in the offense was caused all by Allen.  Well, maybe it was.  The change to the speedier receiver corps accompanied a change in the plays they were running.  The jet sweep was real, the quick screens, the deep crossing routes.   Maybe it's just that they only run with those pass plays with a strong-armed quarterback.  

 

Whatever, it seemed to me that the offense had more of an up-tempo feel, more modern.   Another hopeful sign.  

[Spiderweb]

11 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

Of course, everything is from a fan's point of view, but Shaw usually offers a balanced perspective on things. I don't always agree with his conclusions, but his reasoning is usually sound.

 

For example, in addition to the good points, he recognized the bad throws and acknowledged that there were probably some open receivers that Josh missed and some audibles that he should have made. Did he overlook any negatives that you saw? (Besides the running play that I mentioned.)

 

 

 

 

As I said, I enjoyed the post, but we're not truly objective or if we were its likely we wouldn't be here. We're Bills fans after all. 

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

As I said, I enjoyed the post, but we're not truly objective or if we were its likely we wouldn't be here. We're Bills fans after all. 

I agree with you.  I'm the only one who's truly objective!!!!

 

I don't know 10% of what McD knows about football, but I know this:  McD's approach is do your job and eliminate mistakes.  

 

Now, I can't tell if a guy is doing his job.  I don't know what he isn't doing that McD wants him to do, like making a downfield read presnap, but most of us can see most of the mistakes.  QB is the position where some of the mistakes are pretty obvious. I'm not seeing Allen making the obvious mistakes; all I'm seeing is positive.  Sure, there are any number of things that could go wrong with Allen over the next three years, which means there are no guarantees about his career, but I can tell you two things for sure:

 

1. He's a higher probability success right now than he was on draft night.  He is out playing Darnold and Rosen, and good as Mayfield has played, plenty of people would take Allen over Mayfield in a draft today.  

 

2. The media may not be talking about Allen, but the guys whose job it is to study film for the Dolphins, Jets and Lions are talking about him.  They're seeing a guy who can make all the throws, who has the ability to extend plays and who is finding receivers down field.  Those guys watching film aren't saying Allen is "raw" or a "project."  They're going to the DC and saying "look at this," and the DC is game planning for Allen. 

[CLTbills]

Great writeup as always, @Shaw66. I'll say this. I was as upset with the Allen pick as anybody. But I'm definitely on board the Allen train. The kid just has things that you can't teach.

46 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

1. He's a higher probability success right now than he was on draft night.  He is out playing Darnold and Rosen, and good as Mayfield has played, plenty of people would take Allen over Mayfield in a draft today.  

This is absolutely true when you look at what Mayfield has had to work with vs. what Allen has had to work with.

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, CLTbills said:

 

This is absolutely true when you look at what Mayfield has had to work with vs. what Allen has had to work with.

The night of the draft, my order of preference was Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Allen.   

 

With Mayfield and Darnold gone, when the Bills traded up, at the last moment I waffled and decided I wanted Allen over Rosen.  

 

We don't know what order Beane had them in, but we can now see that Beane knew what he was getting in Allen.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

I can objectively say this with the caveat that I have not paid too much attention to Cam Newton's highlights:  Josh Allen in his brief NFL career has shown on multiple occasions physical traits that I have never seen before.  The Dive, The Hurdle and The Stiff Arm against Anthony Barr (and the one on Yannick Ngakoue.)   I said in another thread that Josh has the wingspan of a condor and could stiff arm a T-Rex to the dirt.   

 

Even that int he threw against the Chargers where he dragged Ingram for 15 ft. and still made a decent, though ill advised throw was something of a wow play.  Can't say that I have ever seen an NFL QB throw an interception quite like that before.  Consider that leaping over the los with ball extended for a TD against the Vikings.  That was done so easily and quickly that the defense had no chance to react.  Usually there is a risk to expose the ball like that.  Not so for him.   Maybe we should sticky a thread full of videos of these type plays.  We may be seeing many, many plays like these over his career and will need a library of them for future reference.

[billsredneck1]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:29 AM, Shaw66 said:

1.  He's showing some great, great stuff.   Throwing ability, poise and awareness, decision making, leadership.

2.  He ISN'T showing rookie mistakes.   Not taking dumb sacks, snot making dumb throws, not getting confused at the line of scrimmage.

3.  His shortcomings are, as I said talking with someone here, that he isn't a veteran yet.   The details, the little things, the things that veterans see and do that create three or four completions a game that rookies don't get, or that result in 20 yard gains instead of seven, he isn't seeing and doing that yet.   It would be a miracle if he were.   But I'm confident that will come, because he's clearly a competitor and a guy who wants to do better.  And his Wonderlic score says that he has the kind of brain that will allow him to do it.  

 

 

great write up shaw.  before the game...like for a week , i was all nervous that he would...well look like he did pre- injury,  but boy was i wrong. i don't care about his stats because if i didn't know what they were, i'd say he had a very good game and he did.  there was a time or two where he had wrs wide open but didn't buy the time, be patient and keep his eyes downfield,  but it was only a couple of times.

 

i think he made very good strides in not dropping back too far,  panicking and taking off, and also getting the ball out on time. i am very excited to see him going forward and i do think he will turn into a 300 yd. passer. i think a lot of his scrambles last week were either designed or an option given what the defense was doing.

 

i love his moxy and his spirit.  now that we have the vertical capability,  i think things will get easier for him and the entire offense.  i'm trusting that we finally have an oc who will game plan for each opponent and not stick with an outdated cookie cutter offense. i think this week we'll finally see some two back sets with a variety of stuff we haven't seen yet....plus a few bombs...yum.

 

just get us one more win!  hopefully mcd and mcfrazier are getting that run defense shored up. this is a good game to play man coverage and do some blitzing at times. ironically at 4-7, i'm excited!

[PlayoffsPlease]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:03 PM, njbuff said:

I would also like to add..................

 

Everyone needs to get wiser or Allen will get killed out there. Remember he has already been on the shelf in his very short career.

 

Allen needs to be wiser as a runner. Daboll needs to be wiser as a playcaller. And McBeane needs to fix the OL.

 

That 3rd down call alone at the end of the last drive in the red zone really PEED me off. That is how you get the kid killed.

The "On the shelf" play was  a result of standing tall in the pocket.  Do you think he should stop doing that? 

[wppete]

Good stuff! 

[Juice_32]

I agree with the Fitz comparisons with regard to his heart and fire. If Allen ends up being Fitz with a cannon, I think most of us would take it.

[stinky finger]

On 11/26/2018 at 11:52 AM, Success said:

Great write up.  I’ve been onboard with Allen since “the hurdle.”  The guy just knows how to play football.

 

Our search - which began when Clinton was President - is over.

 

Funny how this comes full circle. We go from a stain on a dress to a stain on the crotch of my dungerees.

[njbuff]

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The "On the shelf" play was  a result of standing tall in the pocket.  Do you think he should stop doing that? 

 

Unfortunately, that’s where fixing the OL comes in.

 

But, I see your point.

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Funny how this comes full circle. We go from a stain on a dress to a stain on the crotch of my dungerees.

I've been pondering this comment, and its depth and complexity deserves some kind of prize. You've left me with nothing to say. 

[IDBillzFan]

Sorry if posted elsewhere...there is for you, Shaw...

 

 

[GoBills808]

Some of us never got off!

[Commish]

Haven't seen this posted elsewhere ... on the One Bills Drive yesterday, Dan Orlovsky - ESPN commentator  and persistent Allen doubter both on various WGR shows and off, said "he was wrong" before about Allen being unable to succeed at the NFL level. Frankly, I was impressed that a talking-head actually admitted to being wrong - I've never seen or heard it before.