John Wawrow: Struggles Aside, Bills GM Not Veering from Rebuilding Plan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I agree with that and in many instances he'll have to do just that as is often the case in UFA. 

 

I'd be surprised if we see the "overpay" route from this guy...probably has a number in mind regarding FA bucks to carry over into 2020 (pretty sure he can??)  as well as a 2020 list of UFA's.....

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

I'd be surprised if we see the "overpay" route from this guy...probably has a number in mind regarding FA bucks to carry over into 2020 (pretty sure he can??)  as well as a 2020 list of UFA's.....

 

2019 is year three and it will be time for better results.  Pay up!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

2019 is year three and it will be time for better results.  Pay up!

 

...SAME 2-7 next year as we are this year after 10 picks and FAQ bucks in 2019 could mean "color me pink".....uh oh..............

[Boca BIlls]

It's ok I'm used to suck.

[MTBill]

This sums it up for me...

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well it is a new and direct story from Beane.  So I dont see an issue with this thread to discuss Beanes comments.  Its not even remotely as bad as the threads plaguing this site right now.  I mean one dude in a thread today said NP was not good, too weak of an arm, and barely a backup...then also starts a thread saying racism is why he is getting back lash and says he can be good and used Alex Smith as an example of how he should become a good player somewhere else like other Bills castoffs.  Its just nonsense over and over on this board, at least this thread is a real story and deals with real comments.

 

 

Agree. Glad 26 started this thread. 

 

I would have never even clicked on one of those other threads, so I probably wouldn’t have seen this story otherwise. 

[Steve Billieve]

4 hours ago, ddaryl said:

If Beane did not see the disaster that was coming with No established Vet QB and piece meal OL... and average on their best day WR corps then he has no business being a GM

 

 

 

Nevermind that we lost two starting o line.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

That's cool.  But if you're a free agent WR and you have the chance to go to Atlanta or Seattle or New Orleans or San Diego and the money's + or - 10% are you gonna go to one of those teams or to the team that has a project that is "showing more pocket poise and better decision making along with throwing with more consistent mechanics, better timing, anticipation, accuracy, and touch."?

 

that was my point.

 

Beane is likely gonna have to do a great sales job, and overpay.

Or draft extremely well

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What a convenient cover to just be able to say being terrible and losing is part of a plan. That way nothing you do can be used against you. We massively turned over the roster last year and somehow made the playoffs. What would be the thought process behind going backwards with mostly their own players?

Because the schedule was tougher and while mcd dis a masterful job we also go extremely lucky 

 

oh oh and we lost half or starting offensive line and no Tyrod

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What a convenient cover to just be able to say being terrible and losing is part of a plan. That way nothing you do can be used against you. We massively turned over the roster last year and somehow made the playoffs. What would be the thought process behind going backwards with mostly their own players?

People seem to forget we lost Wood and Incognito. Pretty tough to replace a pro bowl center and pro bowl left guard that were part of this year's plan. Ritchie signed a new contract for less, then lost his mind and Wood retired unexpectedly due to a neck injury. Dawkins, Incognito, and Wood from left tackle to center would have been one hell of a left side of the line. But I'm sure you had a plan for that.

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Or draft extremely well

Because the schedule was tougher and while mcd dis a masterful job we also go extremely lucky 

 

oh oh and we lost half or starting offensive line and no Tyrod

We must have been typing at the same time regarding the oline. Didn't copy off of you.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

4 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Excellent article!  This is what many "rational" posters on this site have been saying.  Maybe this article will get some of the agitated posters off  the ledge.

 

Thank you for starting this thread.

Yep some of us understood this season would have some growing pains

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The difference between the Bills and teams like the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs who have executed rapid and complete identity and success makeovers virtually overnight is that the people the Bills hired decided to build using the "addition by subtraction" method.

 

It was an unnecessary roster setback.

 

Have they veered from their plan?    I say yes judging by things like the fact that major character issue players like Corey Coleman, Josh Gordon and Terrelle Pryor became targets.

 

But who's to say?   Because they haven't been up front or forthright about their plan.

 

But things like "we were in on this WR but blah blah salary cap and Buffalo" shouldn't be seen as a justifiable excuse.........how is that a defense when you passed on an option for Watkins then traded him?.......or weren't willing to pay $7M-8M for Woods.........you then traded back much of the capital from the Watkins deal to get Benjamin............I mean they grossly mismanaged the WR position.

 

I'm not giving up on them because it's possible they've been humbled and can make better decisions after all the QB/WR mistakes............but I see no reason to trust a process or plan. 

 

Prove it.

Edited November 16, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) — With little money to spend and few impact players interested in signing with the Bills given the uncertainty at quarterback this past offseason, general manager Brandon Beane understood Buffalo’s offense was going to struggle.

 

Little did he realize how much.

 

“There’s nobody that goes into a season and looks for either side of the ball to have a down year and to be statistically where our offense is,” Beane told The Associated Press during a wide-ranging interview before Buffalo entered its bye week.

 

He then recalled something former coach John Fox once said when the two worked together in Carolina.

 

“There’s nobody going to rescue you in-season,” said Beane, in his second year in Buffalo. “You’ve got to dig out of it yourself. And all you can do is put your head down and keep working.”

 

Much of the heavy lifting will have to wait for the offseason when Buffalo is projected to be more than $90 million under the NFL’s salary cap, plus a current stockpile of 10 draft picks.

Hopefully this rookie GM now understands the importance of building a top offensive line and using his own judgement on player talent.

 

Perhaps he did realize that the line wasn't good enough and he couldn't find anyone better then what he already had on the roster. Although, I find that argument lacking when you see that Eric Wood retired in Jan, and Incognito was gone by April. Replacing that center and left guard should have been a higher priority and all we fans can do is hope he upgrades those positions and others on that line properly this offseason.  Protecting that young, inexperienced QB should be the number one goal of this regime going forward. 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

We may have a little more money to spend, but unless Allen lights it up the last 6 games, "the uncertainty at quarterback" still holds true.  Premium offensive talent, if it comes at all, will come at a premium.

 

 

We're not likely to be after "premium offensive talent," in free agency. They have committed to building through the draft and in this article Beane makes a point of saying they will spend "judiciously." Which is what the best teams, the ones who are competitive consistently, do.

 

We'll fill in with low- and medium-priced FAs. And we have a number of spots, particularly on the offense, where that would be a real upgrade and fill holes.

 

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Hopefully this rookie GM now understands the importance of building a top offensive line and using his own judgement on player talent.

 

Perhaps he did realize that the line wasn't good enough and he couldn't find anyone better then what he already had on the roster. Although, I find that argument lacking when you see that Eric Wood retired in Jan, and Incognito was gone by April. Replacing that center and left guard should have been a higher priority and all we fans can do is hope he upgrades those positions and others on that line properly this offseason.  Protecting that young, inexperienced QB should be the number one goal of this regime going forward. 

 

 

It's not lacking even slightly. It's a very convincing argument. 

 

The problem wasn't time. As we all knew, and as he further says in this very article, money was at a premium.

 

They were in awful cap shape from the Whaley era and they committed to the owners to fix that by the end of the season. Doing that meant there were only so many holes that could be filled this year.

 

And the young and inexperienced QB should have been on the bench all of this year. When that didn't happen - due to the mistake Beane owns up to making in QB depth - Allen ended up in games. But yeah, they absolutely need to make protecting Allen a major goal going forward.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Thurman#1

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Seriously, another rebuilding thread?   

 

Call me a troll if you wish 26 there are dozens of these threads 

 

You no what? if you don't want to read "another" building thread then don't click on it? no one is begging you to read it are they? ya need to get over it/yourself

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The difference between the Bills and teams like the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs who have executed rapid and complete identity and success makeovers virtually overnight is that the people the Bills hired decided to build using the "addition by subtraction" method.

 

It was an unnecessary roster setback.

 

 

 

No.

 

The difference between the Bills and teams like the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs was that those three teams were at a totally different point in their team building plans. Those teams were not in the first two years of rebuilds. Not even close, actually. Whereas the Bills are right there, early in a rebuild.

 

Addition by subtraction is a method used early in rebuilds. It is not used late in rebuilds and it is not used in reloads. And since all of those teams you cite are either late in rebuilds or reloading instead of rebuilding ... of course they didn't do that. The Bills had neither the cap situation nor the roster talent to reload, though and that's why they rebuild, necessitating the bloodletting it takes to get a team very quickly from salary cap hell to salary cap sanity and at the same time get the draft pick to bring in a potential franchise QB.

 

It was completely necessary once they decided to rebuild. And in fact, since it has been reported that in their job interviews they promised the Pegulas that they would clean up the cap by the end of this year, the moment they were hired ... this became necessary.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Thurman#1

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The difference between the Bills and teams like the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs who have executed rapid and complete identity and success makeovers virtually overnight is that the people the Bills hired decided to build using the "addition by subtraction" method.

 

It was an unnecessary roster setback.

 

Have they veered from their plan?    I say yes judging by things like the fact that major character issue players like Corey Coleman, Josh Gordon and Terrelle Pryor became targets.

 

But who's to say?   Because they haven't been up front or forthright about their plan.

 

But things like "we were in on this WR but blah blah salary cap and Buffalo" shouldn't be seen as a justifiable excuse.........how is that a defense when you passed on an option for Watkins then traded him?.......or weren't willing to pay $7M-8M for Woods.........you then traded back much of the capital from the Watkins deal to get Benjamin............I mean they grossly mismanaged the WR position.

 

I'm not giving up on them because it's possible they've been humbled and can make better decisions after all the QB/WR mistakes............but I see no reason to trust a process or plan. 

 

Prove it.

I was actually wondering this morning; if McDermott had to choose between the process and himself, what would he choose? I think that up until now it was the process and not himself, and I think that is changing a bit.

 

For instance, the process said that Josh Allen should sit for 4-6 weeks to get acclimated and Nathan Peterman beat our AJ McCarron in preseason. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked McDermott (and he was candid, for once) who the best QB on our roster was after the 4th preseason game, he would have said Josh Allen. His gut would've been on Allen, but he traded McCarron and started Peterman because that was the process.  My opinion, assuming health, you always play your best player at any position regardless of circumstances.

 

Or maybe it's 4th & 1 and the opponent's 43. The process says punt and trust your Defense. Maybe McD, having learned from Riverboat Ron, has an itch to go for it with Tolbert or DiMarco. But he trusts the process instead of himself.

 

As a man of faith, I think he felt it was easier to get a locker room of guys to trust an ever-working, time-tested process instead of getting them to trust him, the first time HC who was also making personnel decisions.  As we move forward, I think that McD needs to have more faith in himself and the team will as well.

[jrober38]

17 hours ago, kota said:

Pretty sure that if you draft a QB at 7 you are rebuilding.  Just saying... Why is this a surprise for anyone?

 

The Bills were a playoff team last year. 

 

The 7th pick wasn't their until they sold off a ton of assets to get there. 

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Bills were a playoff team last year. 

 

The 7th pick wasn't their until they sold off a ton of assets to get there. 

They were a rebuilding team last year that made the playoffs primarily because of good coaching, a weak AFC, over achieving, and luck - not because they were a playoff team. You might think that is nuanced distinction; however, it is not.

[26CornerBlitz]

14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'm not expecting him to light it up with what he has to work with.  I'm looking for more encouraging signs that the game is beginning to slow down for him by showing more pocket poise and better decision making along with throwing with more consistent mechanics, better timing, anticipation, accuracy, and touch.

 

 

[US Egg]

Not sure if this is the before or after the rebuild:

[nucci]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

They were a rebuilding team last year that made the playoffs primarily because of good coaching, a weak AFC, over achieving, and luck - not because they were a playoff team. You might think that is nuanced distinction; however, it is not.

Bills made the playoffs...therefore they were a playoff team.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

You no what? if you don't want to read "another" building thread then don't click on it? no one is begging you to read it are they? ya need to get over it/yourself

Thanks I’ll read this one instead 

 

 

By the same OP

[billsfan1959]

20 minutes ago, nucci said:

Bills made the playoffs...therefore they were a playoff team.

Right. I'm sure, had they kept Tyrod and if they hadn't lost Wood and Incognito, They would be cruising right now to another 8-8, 9-7, "let's hope the tie-breakers go our way" season. Technically, they were a playoff team; however, IMHO, that team doesn't make the playoffs in most years (and we watched very similar teams fail the previous 17 years). I believe they were more lucky than good last year. I also believe that they will be a far better team in the net couple of years. Again, that is just my opinion. Cheers.

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Right. I'm sure, had they kept Tyrod and if they hadn't lost Wood and Incognito, They would be cruising right now to another 8-8, 9-7, "let's hope the tie-breakers go our way" season. Technically, they were a playoff team; however, IMHO, that team doesn't make the playoffs in most years (and we watched very similar teams fail the previous 17 years). I believe they were more lucky than good last year. I also believe that they will be a far better team in the net couple of years. Again, that is just my opinion. Cheers.

The fella you responded to was terse because he treated playoff team as a univocal term that can be reduced to a tautology. The sarcasm was implicit in the pithy expression. Your point understands playoff team to be an equivocal term. One can have a strong roster that can reliably expect to participate in the playoffs or one can be one of those teams that is marginal and lucks into a spot. A team that has a lot of talent isn't thinking about rebuilding. A team that lucks into a spot and really isn't very good should. The logic is not difficult to figure out, but some folks have an agenda and prefer snark to decency.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Dr. Who

[Gugny]

Serious questions:

 

Has it ever been verified/confirmed that McDermott "hired" Beane and that McDermott is calling all of the shots with regard to roster/personnel?

 

I have seen that assertion a hundred times, but I've never seen it confirmed.  I've liked Beane since day one and I do believe in his approach ("The Process").

 

Is Beane, the GM, doing the things that most GMs do?  Or is McDermott pulling the strings?

 

I'm hoping someone provides me (us) with some sort of firm answers to these questions and not just speculation.

 

Thanks!

[ddaryl]

16 hours ago, Steve Billieve said:

 

Nevermind that we lost two starting o line.

mentioned that and he did little to nothing with a rookie qb a year QB and a backup QB on the roster at camp.. 

I mean what GM would be ok with that ?

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

In all seriousness what do you expect him to say?

 

"We know that Buffalo is not a desired place for the top free agents......so we are going to sign who will take our money and biuld through the draft"

 

Would ppl feel better if he said this?

 

 

I expect him to go out and get OL and a real Vet QB before anything had to be said

 

Seriously you going to defend Beane complete screw up with a rookie QB on the orster

 

 

[nucci]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

Right. I'm sure, had they kept Tyrod and if they hadn't lost Wood and Incognito, They would be cruising right now to another 8-8, 9-7, "let's hope the tie-breakers go our way" season. Technically, they were a playoff team; however, IMHO, that team doesn't make the playoffs in most years (and we watched very similar teams fail the previous 17 years). I believe they were more lucky than good last year. I also believe that they will be a far better team in the net couple of years. Again, that is just my opinion. Cheers.

I prefer 9-7 to 4-12....but that's me. I prefer to win games than lose them

[billsfan1959]

Just now, nucci said:

I prefer 9-7 to 4-12....but that's me. I prefer to win games than lose them

Ahhh...the old "if you disagree with me you are a loser and prefer to lose" argument.

 

You got me. I didn't finish high school because I thought a high school diploma, a college degree, and post graduate degrees would interfere with my plans to be a failure in life, I married the woman who was most likely to be unfaithful because I deserve to be cheated on, and I aborted all my children to eliminate the off-chance possibility they might be successful and a source of pride.

 

[nucci]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

Ahhh...the old "if you disagree with me you are a loser and prefer to lose" argument.

 

You got me. I didn't finish high school because I thought a high school diploma, a college degree, and post graduate degrees would interfere with my plans to be a failure in life, I married the woman who was most likely to be unfaithful because I deserve to be cheated on, and I aborted all my children to eliminate the off-chance possibility they might be successful and a source of pride.

 

What are you talking about? I just said we were a playoff team last year and I prefer 9-7 to 4-12....not sure where you're going with this. I'm just talking about football and that I disagree with many who think losing is better in the long term

[billsfan1959]

Just now, nucci said:

What are you talking about? I just said we were a playoff team last year and I prefer 9-7 to 4-12....not sure where you're going with this. I'm just talking about football and that I disagree with many who think losing is better in the long term

That was my point. You were specifically responding to me and insinuating because I disagreed with you, that I think losing is better in the long term. I never said that or implied it. I always prefer winning to losing. If you were not insinuating that, then my apologies. I was simply saying that, IMO, there is a distinction between making the playoffs and being a playoff team, from a talent perspective. To me, there is a difference. It has nothing to do with my preference for winning. Cheers.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

That was my point. You were specifically responding to me and insinuating because I disagreed with you, that I think losing is better in the long term. I never said that or implied it. I always prefer winning to losing. If you were not insinuating that, then my apologies. I was simply saying that, IMO, there is a distinction between making the playoffs and being a playoff team, from a talent perspective. To me, there is a difference. It has nothing to do with my preference for winning. Cheers.

it wasn't my intention to insult you. Sorry if you took it that way

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, nucci said:

it wasn't my intention to insult you. Sorry if you took it that way

It's all good. An overreaction on my part. 

[John from Riverside]

57 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

mentioned that and he did little to nothing with a rookie qb a year QB and a backup QB on the roster at camp.. 

I mean what GM would be ok with that ?

 

 

I expect him to go out and get OL and a real Vet QB before anything had to be said

 

Seriously you going to defend Beane complete screw up with a rookie QB on the orster

 

 

So you expect rebiulding teams with huge dead cap to go out and continue to aquire players?

 

This does not seem like it was part of the plan......it looked like the plan this year was to bottom out......with 10 picks in the next draft and 90 million in cap space.....and draft a QB high?

 

This season was not meant to be a winning season....how hard is it to figure out?

[ddaryl]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So you expect rebiulding teams with huge dead cap to go out and continue to aquire players?

 

This does not seem like it was part of the plan......it looked like the plan this year was to bottom out......with 10 picks in the next draft and 90 million in cap space.....and draft a QB high?

 

This season was not meant to be a winning season....how hard is it to figure out?

 

I expect a professional football team and a General Manager to never ever let that happen for any reason

 

Who mentioned anything about winning season. What I expect is an offense that actually belongs in the NFL 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

I expect a professional football team and a General Manager to never ever let that happen for any reason

 

Who mentioned anything about winning season. What I expect is an offense that actually belongs in the NFL 

You expect NFL teams to not rebiuld?  Good luck with that.

 

Are you happier with the 7-9 and 8-8 seasons where we dont go to the playoffs but pick in the 20's?

 

 

[oldmanfan]

They are not varying, nor should they be.  Successful organizations don't change their plan at the drop of a hat.  They have a multiyear plan, and they need to see if it succeeds.  If it does then they're heroes, if not they lose their jobs.  As it should be.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You expect NFL teams to not rebiuld?  Good luck with that.

 

Are you happier with the 7-9 and 8-8 seasons where we dont go to the playoffs but pick in the 20's?

 

 

 

Yes. I'm a lot happier with those seasons than the garbage we've seen this year, that may not actually result in better offensive play unless Josh Allen improves by leaps and bounds.

 

You're assuming it will all be worth it and Josh Allen will work out. The odds are that probably won't happen, and this season will just be the worst season in 20 years for no good reason. 

[ddaryl]

 

 

I exect a professional organization to field an Offense an do do what it takes to groom a rookie QB into the NFL which includes a reaql established vet.. And to field an OL that doesn't get our RB and QB destroyed in the process

 

 

I'm sick and tired of it 9-7 -3-13- 8-8 - 4-12s.....

 

but no team in their right mind fields this offense on purpose 

 

 

[Roundybout]

14 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Yes. I'm a lot happier with those seasons than the garbage we've seen this year, that may not actually result in better offensive play unless Josh Allen improves by leaps and bounds.

 

You're assuming it will all be worth it and Josh Allen will work out. The odds are that probably won't happen, and this season will just be the worst season in 20 years for no good reason. 

 

Figures you're one of those "muh winz" cronies. News flash: 7-9 every year is a BAD thing.