And more piling on.....

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Now your just crying

 

i'm just laughing now, crying isn't an option for this level of decrepitude, the team obviously cares less than we do

 

here's to hope for a very good draft in the offseason

 

 

[BillsFan1988]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You must not have been around the previous 17 seasons.

Ive been around for 30 plus never seen a Bills team this bad.

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

He made the playoffs with an offensive line that was functional, if not great.  Two quality OL starters departed and were replaced by Bodine and Newhouse et al, aka meh.  He also made the playoffs with little in the way of wideouts.  That's to his credit.  But the receiver equation hasn't improved.  The deficiencies on the OL, receiver, and elsewhere are on Beane.  Why are so many roasting the coach because of our personnel deficiencies?  He's done and is doing the best he can with what he's been given.  With respect to assistant coaches, that, however, is on him.

 

I think they're in these decisions together, but personally I don't look at almost anything this year except for Defense, specifically their selected players, and Allen. Everything on Offense is otherwise almost near impossible to evaluate until next year when Beane and McD can bring in quality FAs and Draft more players that fit their design. FWIW, their Draft picks are doing their part....it's mostly the other players held over from Whaley and the guys they basically just had no choice but to bring in, ala Newhouse, Bodine, etc. 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I think they're in these decisions together, but personally I don't look at almost anything this year except for Defense, specifically their selected players, and Allen. Everything on Offense is otherwise almost near impossible to evaluate until next year when Beane and McD can bring in quality FAs and Draft more players that fit their design. FWIW, their Draft picks are doing their part....it's mostly the other players held over from Whaley and the guys they basically just had no choice but to bring in, ala Newhouse, Bodine, etc. 

The problem is there is no great options at WR in FA this year. Golden Tate is about the only one and I doubt he leaves the Eagles. 

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

So they couldn't ask them to tank last year, but they can ask them to do it this year?

 

This is the part of the equation that doesn't add up for me.

 

McDermott hates losing. I think they made the most of their situation last year, and legitimately thought they'd be better this year.

 

I think that they thought getting rid of Tyrod would be an upgrade at QB, that the OL would gel, that a healthy Benjamin and a 2nd year Zay Jones would be fine at WR, and that the running game would be solid like a year ago.

 

I honestly think that they brought back Kyle Williams, and Lorax, because they thought they'd be better this year. I don't think there's any chance that behind close doors they expected this team to take the step backwards that we've seen. 

 

I'm not saying they're asking them to tank, I think the hard truth is that they're trying but can only do so much. As for KB, yup, he wasn't great last year but I don't know that anyone saw this lackluster interest in playing for this year - a contract year. Also, they didn't give him an extension, I think that means they wanted his services for the year and let him do an extended "try out" before giving him a new contract, if that was even in the discussions. Getting rid of Tyrod was less about this year and I think we can all agree, it was about getting the QB of the future while getting some trade value out of TT that was used to get their MLB of the future. Zay has been developing nicely, albeit slower than hoped but with the QB situation, can we really blame him entirely? 

 

They said they want to win now and in the future, but I really don't think much of anyone could argue that it was *less* about winning now than it is about the future, i.e. 2019 and beyond. 

[BillsFan1988]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Don't we have a bunch of cap space and 10 draft picks?

 

How are McDermott and Beane going to convince any free agents to want to come here?

This message deserves an award. How's Mr McClappy gonna talk offense with these perspective free agents. Whats his selling point ? 

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

First of all u dont know me . U dont know what kind of fan i am . Im not about to start telling u what kind of fan u are either. The problem is we are still not relevant. We haven't been relevant for nearly 20yrs.

 

Lets see now u said we are 

 

#1 Not Patient- well after nearly 20yrs i don't know how much patience i have left.

 

#2 No Vision - i beg to differ on this one. I was never sold on McBeane from the get go. I never joined the process . Actually i predicted a horrible season this yr and i dont think these guys will ever build this team into a real contender.  My vision is basically 20/20 with these guys. My vision is incredible i have begged this team for over 20yrs to draft players i have scouted its a hobby and a passion of mine to scout players and i would do it much better then these fools we got running our team. Im not gonna start a list of players i loved in the draft threwout all these yrs but ill tell u this i thought Mahomes was gonna be great and i got Allen being a bust. 

 

#3 - Not positive - well this one was sucked out of me over the yrs by this team. I used to be the kind of fan they gave this team the benefit of not anymore not after all the hell they put us threw.

 

I didn't say I knew you, but fans clamored for the playoffs and now they want more in the second year when it's a rebuild. 

 

Not patient...patience does run out over time, it gets re-set with each new change. So, if you've run out of patience, then your issue is with the organization and not with McD or Beane. Fair enough, but that doesn't account for giving Beane and McD the time to do their job.

 

No vision - you've admitted you didn't buy in from the beginning, so I'm not sure how we disagree when you've admitted you don't believe in what they're doing.

 

Not positive - see the patience comment...positive is easy when things go well, it's when the poop storm dumps all over you and remain focused on the outcome rather than the stench. 

 

I empathize with your frustration, we just disagree with the points of fact. 

[Wayne Arnold]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Ive been around for 30 plus never seen a Bills team this bad.

 

I’m going to go ahead and call bullspit on this one. 

[BillsFan1988]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I’m going to go ahead and call bullspit on this one. 

Really. This team is on track to be outscored by 300 pts. It cant get worse then that.

[BigBuff423]

11 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

The problem is there is no great options at WR in FA this year. Golden Tate is about the only one and I doubt he leaves the Eagles. 

 

Agreed that the available pool of FA WRs isn't deep, but there are some decent names that the Bills would need to overpay to have on the team. Which is why I was down with trading a high pick for a WR who had a year left on their contract, like Cooper, because he's only 24 and you know he can be a #1. That said, I think the Bills cut bait with KB, Holmes and bring a couple guys like Randall Cobb or Tyrell Williams or Quincy Enunwa if any of them make it to FA and use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a good boundary WR. They could also trade for one, like Hughes for (insert name here) because the Draft is deep at DE / DT. Point being there will be options between money to burn and Draft picks, I think they get much better WRs in the building. Here's the link to some FA WRs scheduled for 2019 Off-season but we also know many of them will be signed by their team:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

 

Edit: I should also add, if Pryor likes Buffalo and the Bills see him as a good fit, they could bring him back on a 2 year deal. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by BigBuff423

[CommonCents]

Just now, BigBuff423 said:

 

Agreed that the available pool of FA WRs isn't deep, but there are some decent names that the Bills would need to overpay to have on the team. Which is why I was down with trading a high pick for a WR who had a year left on their contract, like Cooper, because he's only 24 and you know he can be a #1. That said, I think the Bills cut bait with KB, Holmes and bring a couple guys like Randall Cobb or Tyrell Williams or Quincy Enunwa if any of them make it to FA and use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a good boundary WR. They could also trade for one, like Hughes for (insert name here) because the Draft is deep at DE / DT. Point being there will be options between money to burn and Draft picks, I think they get much better WRs in the building. Here's the link to some FA WRs scheduled for 2019 Off-season but we also know many of them will be signed by their team:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

Cobb is toast. I wouldn’t mind Ty Williams but I think he stays with the Chargers. 

[sleeby]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/32553/stat-by-stat-bills-offense-inching-toward-nfl-infamy

Disaster porn.  Nothing to see here.

[jkirchofer]

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

You mean the same HC that gave this franchise it's first playoff birth in nearly two decades just last year???

 

And yes, they needed help, but when it's every other team in the NFL who makes it into the playoffs - via Wildcard - they're not torn down the same way this fan base does it with the Bills. Fact is, they still needed to win games to put themselves in a position to be in the playoffs, external help be damned. 

 

And for those who presume a rebuild occurs in two years is either 1. 10 years old 2. older, but similar maturity.

This offense is statistically worse than both the 1-15 and 0-16 Browns.

We are allowed to criticize this coaching staff and front office.

The NFL is a win now league. It is a "what have you done for me this season" league.

And for those that presume that a rebuild must be accompanied by arguably the worst offense in NFL history is either 1. 10 years old 2. older, but similar maturity.

[ColoradoBills]

19 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

This message deserves an award. How's Mr McClappy gonna talk offense with these perspective free agents. Whats his selling point ? 

 

"We think you are a great football player and want you to help turn around our offense..........here is your check".

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

I hope our franchise isn't as inept as Cleveland.

Watch ... Bruce Arians will be hired there and he will be the QB whisperer for Mayfield, while we have a mediocre WR coach to mentor our prized rook

[Spiderweb]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? 

Us long time fans can recall a number of bleak seasons. My first one was in 1968 as a young lad..

 

[jkirchofer]

1 minute ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Watch ... Bruce Arians will be hired there and he will be the QB whisperer for Mayfield, while we have a mediocre WR coach to mentor our prized rook

It is amazing to me that McDermott could not find a single QB coach with actual experience coaching QBs this decade, or even last decade for that matter.

[BigBuff423]

2 minutes ago, jkirchofer said:

This offense is statistically worse than both the 1-15 and 0-16 Browns.

We are allowed to criticize this coaching staff and front office.

The NFL is a win now league. It is a "what have you done for me this season" league.

And for those that presume that a rebuild must be accompanied by arguably the worst offense in NFL history is either 1. 10 years old 2. older, but similar maturity.

 

Twisting words 101...well done, you aced it. Now for the advanced class of Buffoonery 201 where I'm sure you'll find others like-minded and follow the sheep led by ESPN et. al. 

[CodeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

"We think you are a great football player and want you to help turn around our offense..........here is your check".

The problem with this is, there are plenty of places they can get a check that aren't currently a complete dumpster fire.

[jkirchofer]

1 minute ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Twisting words 101...well done, you aced it. Now for the advanced class of Buffoonery 201 where I'm sure you'll find others like-minded and follow the sheep led by ESPN et. al. 

Glad you have a monopoly on being a Bills fan. You must also be quite the NFL analyst. Tell me...how's that working out for you?

[BigBuff423]

Just now, jkirchofer said:

Glad you have a monopoly on being a Bills fan. You must also be quite the NFL analyst. Tell me...how's that working out for you?

 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

The problem with this is, there are plenty of places they can get a check that aren't currently a complete dumpster fire.

 

That is why the check will have to be a little bigger with a little more guaranteed money.

It's just what they will have to do.

[Jrb1979]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

That is why the check will have to be a little bigger with a little more guaranteed money.

It's just what they will have to do.

Then your back to the mess they just cleaned up. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

Then your back to the mess they just cleaned up. 

 

I don't see the Bills going after big name big contract players.

I hear what you all are saying but they will pay a little more for 2nd tier players in FA.

The only way to move forward is through the draft.

If they don't hit in the draft they will not succeed.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Meh, I'm done watching until Allen retakes the field. People and media abroad can say whatever they want. Most of it is right. With Allen on the field this team and the energy around it was completely different. 

Don’t we averaged more yards per game with Anderson?  I get wanting Allen to be good but minus a half against Minnesota, he was as bad or worse as the other guys.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Don't we have a bunch of cap space and 10 draft picks?

 

How are McDermott and Beane going to convince any free agents to want to come here?

 

$90 million... that’s how 

[billsfan_34]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

This season has been depressing. Possible the worst I have ever seen. Anyone remember a season that has been worse recently? 

Kay Stephenson or Hank Bullough ring a bell? Not so recent but those were some tough times as a kid freezin my nads off watching some bad bad football. I do think this is much worse on offense and special teams. 

50 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

This message deserves an award. How's Mr McClappy gonna talk offense with these perspective free agents. Whats his selling point ? 

How about “Mr Pegula will give you your very own gas well, sign here”....?

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

$90 million... that’s how 

So we’re going to massively overpay free agents and end up in salary hell in a few years? 

 

I love Buffalo but no FA is joining this team without a huge overpay.  Unless they really like Chicken wings.

[jrober38]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

$90 million... that’s how 

 

Overpaying for free agents is how we got into the current mess. 

 

Seems like a bad idea to repeat the same mistake. 

[jkirchofer]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

That is why the check will have to be a little bigger with a little more guaranteed money.

It's just what they will have to do.

 

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we’re going to massively overpay free agents and end up in salary hell in a few years? 

 

I love Buffalo but no FA is joining this team without a huge overpay.  Unless they really like Chicken wings.

It would also go against McDermott's locker room culture.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I couldn't care less about making the playoffs. I care about having a GM, Coach and players who can win a Super Bowl, and right now there's nothing that suggests we have any of those things.

 

Our coach loves to punt on 4th and short in opposition territory. He does it pretty much every opportunity he gets.

 

That's all you need to know about Sean McDermott's philosophy to coaching. That's not something any of Bill Belicick, Andy Reid, Sean McVay or Sean Payton do. 

 

I mean - that's kind of a bad example.  When your offense is historically bad and can't move the ball you really do want to pin them back as far as possible, no?

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, BmarvB said:

 

Consider a HC who went 1-31 over a 2 year period and still got a third year

 

Yes, the Cleveland Browns are the perfect team for the Bills to emulate.

 

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

No patience, no vision, no ability to remain positive toward the future and yet miserably complain every time the team tries to do something right...yikes. We're not the laughing stock because of record or Offensive woes or stupid table breaking b.s.....fans become the laughing stock because they refuse to accept the pain of getting better for the future AFTER they've asked for it for going on 10 years. Woof....

 

Bills fans aren't the laughing stock of the league.  The Bills team is a laughing stock because they suck no matter how you try to spin. 

 

3 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Because the process=tank, how haven’t everyone realized this 

 

No, "the process = incompetence".

 

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I’m not normally a “no one wants to come to Buffalo” kind of guy. At all.

 

But honest to God - how could you possibly expect the Pegulas to convince any promising football coach with any other options at all to come here after firing their second HC they hired in four years just one season after snapping an 18 year playoff drought? Not to mention everything else - horrible roster, non-football factors, etc.

 

Seriously.

 

I think the Pegulas wouldn't have a problem attracting a top flight HC if they do what they should have done when they bought the team: hire an experienced football exec with a strong player personnel background from one of the top notch NFL organizations (like KC, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc) to be a real NFL GM/President of Football Ops/Czar with the power to hire and fire everybody below him -- and answerable only to the Pegulas.  The new GM would have the final decision on who stays and who goes, from the well-heeled suits on the second floor of OBD to the scouts to the coaching staff to the players, etc.  It's time to finally completely break free from the shadow of Ralph Wilson's ghost (especially since they axed his spiritual "son", Russ Brandon, back in May).

[H2o]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Don’t we averaged more yards per game with Anderson?  I get wanting Allen to be good but minus a half against Minnesota, he was as bad or worse as the other guys.

I don't know, but Allen's energy seems to rub off on everyone else. He also adds a running element that neither Lurch (DA) nor Gizmo (Peterpick) do when they are under Center. We were 2-3 with Allen starting, 0-4 with everyone else. Imo, we would have won the Texans game if he didn't get injured as well. 

[BigBuff423]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Yes, the Cleveland Browns are the perfect team for the Bills to emulate.

 

 

Bills fans aren't the laughing stock of the league.  The Bills team is a laughing stock because they suck no matter how you try to spin. 

 

 

No, "the process = incompetence".

 

 

I think the Pegulas wouldn't have a problem attracting a top flight HC if they do what they should have done when they bought the team: hire an experienced football exec with a strong player personnel background from one of the top notch NFL organizations (like KC, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc) to be a real NFL GM/President of Football Ops/Czar with the power to hire and fire everybody below him -- and answerable only to the Pegulas.  The new GM would have the final decision on who stays and who goes, from the well-heeled suits on the second floor of OBD to the scouts to the coaching staff to the players, etc.  It's time to finally completely break free from the shadow of Ralph Wilson's ghost (especially since they axed his spiritual "son", Russ Brandon, back in May).

 

Uh-huh....ok...so the countless memes of table-breaking that went so far as to have digital Brady do it on MNF is non-existent? Yeah, ok....good talk. If you try to pass the national media as a legit narrative, you've become an outsider because you fail to grasp the larger picture. That is to be expected from fans of other teams and from the talking heads at super-media conglomerates, but if you're a local fan (either living in the area or born and raised or just followed Buffalo your whole life), then you know outside opinions mean jack-diddly and they're often wrong. If you buy into it, then that perspective is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Overpaying for free agents is how we got into the current mess. 

 

Seems like a bad idea to repeat the same mistake. 

 

I agree with you jrob.  I think a lot of posters are going to be a little shocked when FA comes around.

1st I do not see Beane spending all the money.  He will save a decent hunk of it to resign future draft picks like you said in another thread.

I bet they keep 25 million to rollover into 2020.

I do see them signing 2-3 players on D with 4-6 million per year type guys.  This will keep the D viable.

 

They are going to have a hard time on offense signing guys.  They can find a RB and TE in FA.  There looks like a good amount of them available.

They got to get at least one "decent" OL and WR in FA.  It won't be any star player.  They will need to overpay to do it.

Overpaying a couple guys with a yearly average of less than 10 per year doesn't kill a teams future $'s.

The rest of the FA money will go on 2-3 million per year guys that may or may not pan out.

 

They will have to use the vast majority of picks on offense and will have to hit on a lot of them.

If they don't they will fail.  I know you already think they have failed but this is how I see the offseason going.

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, H2o said:

I don't know, but Allen's energy seems to rub off on everyone else. He also adds a running element that neither Lurch (DA) nor Gizmo (Peterpick) do when they are under Center. We were 2-3 with Allen starting, 0-4 with everyone else. Imo, we would have won the Texans game if he didn't get injured as well. 

I respectfully don’t agree.  He sucked in the Titans game and we were losing against the Texans.  I’d rather see him than the other 2 but he was a pretty awful passer himself.  Good runner though.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

24 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Overpaying for free agents is how we got into the current mess. 

 

Seems like a bad idea to repeat the same mistake. 

 

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So we’re going to massively overpay free agents and end up in salary hell in a few years? 

 

I love Buffalo but no FA is joining this team without a huge overpay.  Unless they really like Chicken wings.

 

Nonsense.  90 mil and 10 draft picks net 8-10 maybe up to 14 new starters without cap hell. 

 

Sometimes  up and comers or guys wanting out of a bad system or some other players shadow are happy to join a rebuild. Especially if they belive in the direction, philosophy or young talent. 

 

If if they need to over pay one or two guys a little, so be it. 

 

Top 3 dead cap contributors ($30 million of the 56) were drafted as Bills not free agent acquisitions. Dareus, Wood, Glenn. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I agree with you jrob.  I think a lot of posters are going to be a little shocked when FA comes around.

1st I do not see Beane spending all the money.  He will save a decent hunk of it to resign future draft picks like you said in another thread.

I bet they keep 25 million to rollover into 2020.

I do see them signing 2-3 players on D with 4-6 million per year type guys.  This will keep the D viable.

 

They are going to have a hard time on offense signing guys.  They can find a RB and TE in FA.  There looks like a good amount of them available.

They got to get at least one "decent" OL and WR in FA.  It won't be any star player.  They will need to overpay to do it.

Overpaying a couple guys with a yearly average of less than 10 per year doesn't kill a teams future $'s.

The rest of the FA money will go on 2-3 million per year guys that may or may not pan out.

 

They will have to use the vast majority of picks on offense and will have to hit on a lot of them.

If they don't they will fail.  I know you already think they have failed but this is how I see the offseason going.

 

I agree.

 

We won't be able to sign any quality free agents, particularly on offense. Simply put no one is moving to Buffalo to join the worst offense in NFL history unless we over them significantly more money than anyone else is offering.

 

I see them going after one or two second tier guys, and several third/four tier guys to improve their depth and fill specific holes. 

 

They'll probably add an interior linemen who can start at one of the guard spots, and I think they'll sign a decent #3 type receiver (the WR class is really weak this year). Other than that I think they try to fill their offensive holes in the draft, adding a WR, OL and RB in the first three rounds. 

 

On defense they'll continue to bring in guys like they have in the past who fit our specific Cover 2 scheme. 

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

Nonsense.  90 mil and 10 draft picks net 8-10 maybe up to 14 new starters without cap hell. 

 

Sometimes  up and comers or guys wanting out of a bad system or some other players shadow are happy to join a rebuild. Especially if they belive in the direction, philosophy or young talent. 

 

If if they need to over pay one or two guys a little, so be it. 

 

Top 3 dead cap contributors ($30 million of the 56) were drafted as Bills not free agent acquisitions. 

 

 

 

7 of our 10 draft picks are on day 3 of the draft. 

 

Expecting 8-14 new starters considering who is going to be available in free agency and what draft picks we actually have to use is a crazy expectation unless the Bills trade down in the 1st and 2nd rounds. 

 

I'd guess we sign two middle of the road free agents (OG, WR), and use early draft picks at WR, OG and RB. The rest of our picks will likely be guys who fill in as depth early on.

 

I think we can count on having about 5 new starters on offense, with maybe 2-3 more guys who contribute in a less significant role. Expecting double digit new starters isn't going to happen unless we spend like a bunch of drunken sailors in free agency. 

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

And expressing it 100 times in every thread doesn't make it any more legitimate than the opinion of anyone else

 

Well then stop posting. Dude. Lighten up. It’s the crappy Bills. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by nedboy7

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I agree.

 

We won't be able to sign any quality free agents, particularly on offense. Simply put no one is moving to Buffalo to join the worst offense in NFL history unless we over them significantly more money than anyone else is offering.

 

I see them going after one or two second tier guys, and several third/four tier guys to improve their depth and fill specific holes. 

 

They'll probably add an interior linemen who can start at one of the guard spots, and I think they'll sign a decent #3 type receiver (the WR class is really weak this year). Other than that I think they try to fill their offensive holes in the draft, adding a WR, OL and RB in the first three rounds. 

 

On defense they'll continue to bring in guys like they have in the past who fit our specific Cover 2 scheme. 

 

I see that number higher.  I see a bunch of guys making 5-7 million or so a year being pursued.

 

I'm not saying Beane and McDermott will work themselves out of this offensive hole.

I am saying they could do it. 

Josh Allen's success will be key and that jury is still out.