I realize that ppl don’t want to hear this but the plan looks like....

[Dr.Sack]

Hard to polish a turd and that is what we have on offense. A flaming pile of Doo Doo. 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong, you dont know that.  McD wasnt a HC before, so he has no prior body of work to prove or disprove that.  This offense is devoid of talent, so you cant know if he can lead a team with a good offense or not.  

 

We won't know what McD can do from the offensive side until sometime into next season where we can measure the development of Allen and see how this team improves on offense. 

 

This myth that a smart defensive coach cant lead a team with a good offense is absurd.  I mean just look at our division, BB is a defensive coach.  Heck, look at our own team, in the 2 years with Rex the Bills were the second highest scoring 2 year period ever in Bills history, with TYROD at QB...second only to the to first SB years.  I mean there are all kinds of examples of this.  

 

You're saying, hey, the greatest coach of all time with the greatest QB of all time who won 5 superbowls can do it, why can't McDermott.

 

Then added the point about Tyrod leading the 2nd highest scoring offense in a league that has clearly changed and favors the offense.

 

These aren't examples of anything relevant. You're using using examples out of context as if they are to be expected to happen.

[longtimebillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You've got Stockholm syndrome my friend.

 

You don't ship out all those pieces last year, accumulate picks then decide because you won a few games you'll give up a third for Benjamin. You don't draft a QB surround him with nothing, ship out a good tackle because you drafted a decent tackle. You don't take after you get the QB and MLB.

 

It's not a tank. That's a very convenient excuse for what this is. This is ineptitude.

Why keep looking in the past.   That accomplishes absolutely nothing.   It is so much better to look forward.   Each to his own. 

[Ol Dirty B]

10 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Why keep looking in the past.   That accomplishes absolutely nothing.   It is so much better to look forward.   Each to his own. 

 

Hey I'm looking forward to the future as well. I've said for years I'd rather they just lose at a certain point so they get a higher draft pick. It sucks losing, but just atleast be interesting, give me a couple players to watch for the future. I like watching Tre and Edmunds.

 

Unfortunately on offense, I don't think they approached it correctly. I was pro tank for the Sabres, but that was easy for me. I'm not as big of a fan of the Sabres as I am the Bills. I just see no athletes, I think they ignored it. I know they'll get another year or two, but I just don't see anything on offense to show me they have a clue.

 

The way to make the future better is to cut your losses. I know that's not going to happen. I'd just rather have it this coach isn't calling shots on what goes on on offense.

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

The Bucs picked 53rd and Pats picked 56th.  No offensive picks.

 

 

Who those picks eventually got traded to and what those teams used them for is completely irrelevant.

 

Buffalo owned them and used them to get a QB who might eventually become a franchise QB.

 

You said:

 

On 11/5/2018 at 10:33 AM, Ray Finkel said:

That is what happens when you neglect the offense.

 

And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Thurman#1

[The Process]

On 11/4/2018 at 6:53 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Koolaid's here bringin' ya fun....koolaid's got thirst on the run.....

Get a big wide happy ear to ear koolaid smi....eeee....ile!

 

Awesome....thanks for that memory!

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, we do know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season with this mess.

 

Would you have allowed Josh Allen to start behind this mess of an offensive line? I know I wouldn't and just judging from last season I wouldn't have gone into this year thinking that Peterman would be the starter. The receiver corps is also a joke. Most Bills fans were complaining all offseason and the current FO did very little to correctly upgrade the QB, line, WR issues. 

 

Keeping McD is just prolonging the inevitable as we look at this season on offense and its really bad and it's not going to get any better. Out of 9 games Ravens, Packers, Colts, Patriots, Bears were all blowouts. So more then half and its not going to get any better from my view. So many player personnel mistakes by this regime and I've learned over the past twenty years that things usually get worse. All the penalties that are still happening each week 10 for 163 yards...are you kidding me?

 

 

The bigger point is that what made the two teams that you mentioned so successful was that they fired the defensive minded HC and replaced them with a pair of the brightest offensive minds they could find. Usually first time, first year head coaches don't fare that well in the NFL and yet Sean McVay 11-5 after a 4-12 season by Jeff Fisher. The Bears who finished last season 5-11 under John Fox have already equaled that total at 5-3 under new HC Matt Nagy an Andy Reid disciple.

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I'd be looking at the next best and brightest offensive mind to hire as HC before this coaching staff has another season to ruin that rookie QB we both like so much. The defense will be fine with Leslie Frazier as DC so the continuity of the defense should stay the same. Shame too because I happen to like McD. I just think he has no clue with the offensive side of the ball. 

 

No, we don't know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season knowing it was going to be a mess. They've tried to tell anyone listening not to expect much this year.

 

But you didn't listen.

 

They aren't surprised it's a bad year. Only you folks who didn't get it did.

 

And while some offensive coaches have looked very good recently, so have some defensive coaches. As usual, it's not really which side of the ball a guy comes from, it's how good a head coach he is. You look at the teams - this year - with five or more wins and it's pretty close to even. What's not even is that they pretty much all have good QBs, which is what we got by trading a lot of talent away and then using a ton of draft capital and Cordy Glenn besides on bringing in Josh Allen, who might eventually become good. As for coaches succeeding quickly, yup, they went into situations with good young QBs on board, with more talent and better cap situations and were able to reload rather than rebuild.

 

We didn't have a QB or much talent and our cap situation was horrible. Reloads under those situations are almost guaranteed to fail. So we rebuilt instead. And yeah, that takes awhile, as nearly everyone knows.

 

You'd be looking for an offensive coach. Yeah, whatever. Fine.

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Who those picks eventually got traded to and what those teams used them for is completely irrelevant.

 

Buffalo owned them and used them to get a QB who might eventually become a franchise QB.

 

You said we ignored the offense. Nonsense. We used the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player. Josh Allen.

That is exactly right and I think the GM did a masterful job in finding a really good future franchise QB in the 2018 draft!

 

The problem is then this same GM went on to surround this bright inexperienced new rookie QB with utter garbage, on the O line, on the offensive coaching staff. The offensive line is one of the very worst in the league in which the QBs have no time to throw and yet this doesn't stop that moron of an OC from calling mid to deep passing plays. Is it any wonder why Allen has been sacked 21 times in 5 games! 

 

Now look at what that kid managed to do in against of the toughest stretches of opponents in the league, he went 2-3, scored 5 TDs. Those two wins are the only wins for the year as Peterman is 0-2, Anderson is 0-2. Peterman has 2 TDs with a QBR of 6.5.

 

That 2016 Buffalo Bills #1 in the league in run game, #1 in rush TDs, #1 in yards per rush attempt is now currently...#23 in rush yards, #23 in rush TDs (because Allen still leads the team in rushing TDs with 3)#30 in yards per attempt. 

 

This entire offensive coaching staff needs to be flushed down the toilet like the crap it is...

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You don't ship out all those pieces last year, accumulate picks then decide because you won a few games you'll give up a third for Benjamin. You don't draft a QB surround him with nothing, ship out a good tackle because you drafted a decent tackle. You don't take after you get the QB and MLB.

 

It's not a tank. That's a very convenient excuse for what this is. This is ineptitude.

 

 

Actually, you do. Giving up a third for Benjamin was a risk but we still had plenty of draft capital to get Allen. And Allen won us that snow game without which we don't reach the playoffs.

 

And as for Glenn and Dawkins, we needed to get a top four QB. Shipping out Glenn made it a much more likely thing. And Glenn was injured and hadn't been fully healthy in a while. And was coming up on a major payday. This kind of move is made all the time. It made complete sense.

 

You're right it's not a tank. You have to look to hockey and basketball for those.

 

This is a rebuild, a near-complete one. If they still suck in another year or two then yeah, we'll know. As it is it's simply too early to know. Rebuilds take a lot of time and they suck. That's the horrible part. But they can get you a franchise QB when other ways often can't, and they can be the foundation of great teams. No, it's far from guaranteed. But when you're going from a 7-9 record on a team with a crappy cap situation and Tyrod Taylor at QB and a roster no better than decent, it's probably the best chance you have for success.

[Nihilarian]

17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

No, we don't know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season knowing it was going to be a mess. They've tried to tell anyone listening not to expect much this year.

 

But you didn't listen.

 

 

Got a link to this complete nonsense bolded? It's simply not true.

 

 

Yes, we do know how bad they are because they are what their record says they are...2-7.

 

It's not just about the bad players on offense as it's the bad offensive coaches too. All the penalties and the last game with Chicago it was 10 for 163 yards. This shows lack of discipline. 70 penalties for 640 yards on the season. Most penalties are on the offensive side. 

 

 

*If this GM/HC are now saying that this is a rebuild year then I hope to god they don't start Allen again with that mess of an offense as he might be able to win some games for them, but then again he might get injured again in doing so. Let Peterman play the next 7 games to see if he is even worthwhile keeping. As it is I don't get why he was even on the roster...much less expected to be the starting QB.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

That is exactly right and I think the GM did a masterful job in finding a really good future franchise QB in the 2018 draft!

 

The problem is then this same GM went on to surround this bright inexperienced new rookie QB with utter garbage, on the O line, on the offensive coaching staff. The offensive line is one of the very worst in the league in which the QBs have no time to throw and yet this doesn't stop that moron of an OC from calling mid to deep passing plays. Is it any wonder why Allen has been sacked 21 times in 5 games! 

 

Now look at what that kid managed to do in against of the toughest stretches of opponents in the league, he went 2-3, scored 5 TDs. Those two wins are the only wins for the year as Peterman is 0-2, Anderson is 0-2. Peterman has 2 TDs with a QBR of 6.5.

 

That 2016 Buffalo Bills #1 in the league in run game, #1 in rush TDs, #1 in yards per rush attempt is now currently...#23 in rush yards, #23 in rush TDs (because Allen still leads the team in rushing TDs with 3)#30 in yards per attempt. 

 

This entire offensive coaching staff needs to be flushed down the toilet like the crap it is...

 

 

So, what you're saying is that the offensive roster is absolute crap, right? And that therefore what we should do is fire the offensive coaches? You realize that doesn't make sense, right? The coaches you fire are the ones who have decent players and get crap production out of them. What you do with coaches who have crap rosters and get crap production out of them is what you should do with every coach anyway ... you take all emotion out of the decision. You collect all the information you need. You avoid knee-jerk reactions. And then you make an ice-cold analysis, grinding through all the info. And then you make an ice-cold decision.

 

What you DON'T do is get all pissy and angry and moan and scream and pick out an easy scapegoat and blame everything on him.

 

Even good coaches need good players.

 

And no, it's no wonder Allen has completed 54%, thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs while only putting up a YPA of a horrible 6.0 and a passer rating of 61.8.

 

He's a rookie. And a rookie who was trumpeted to the hills before the draft as a guy who would need a ton of development ... a fact promptly forgotten by Bills fans once we drafted him.

 

And yeah, back in 2016, we were #1 in the league in rushing. Yeah, boy, I remember those great days ... sigh ... when we were the 16th ranked offense in the league. We were terrific at running and also way below average at passing. It wasn't like we threw out a great offense. And a lot of the problem is having lost Incognito and Wood, which was not a decision made by this regime.

 

20 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Got a link to this complete nonsense bolded? It's simply not true.

 

 

Yes, we do know how bad they are because they are what their record says they are...2-7.

 

It's not just about the bad players on offense as it's the bad offensive coaches too. All the penalties and the last game with Chicago it was 10 for 163 yards. This shows lack of discipline. 70 penalties for 640 yards on the season. Most penalties are on the offensive side. 

 

 

*If this GM/HC are now saying that this is a rebuild year then I hope to god they don't start Allen again with that mess of an offense as he might be able to win some games for them, but then again he might get injured again in doing so. Let Peterman play the next 7 games to see if he is even worthwhile keeping. As it is I don't get why he was even on the roster...much less expected to be the starting QB.

 

 

 

 

Dude, it really is true.

 

No, they didn't say they were rebuilding. Nobody does. Not even Cleveland. Not in these PR-conscious days. But yes, they've hinted over and over again that this year was not going to be good. They did that because they knew they were rebuilding.

 

It's been there.

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind sitting Allen or playing Peterman a bit.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Thurman#1

[oldmanfan]

10 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

You didn't answer the questions. Would you have played Josh Allen behind that line knowing how bad it is? Would you have gone into the season with Nathaniel Peterman as the starter with so little experience? 

 

I'll also ask, Would you have allowed the team to enter the season with no veteran QB on the roster to help guide the two inexperienced QBs? Would you have hired a QB coach that had never previously been a QB coach* to help develop two inexperienced QBs? It's like the blind leading the blind on offense. 

 

McD's first offensive hire was Juan Castillo the run game coordinator/ O line coach and he should have been fired last year with Dennison.  This year McD hired an OC that has been an OC with 4 different teams for 5 seasons and each time his offenses were never better then 23rd and this year it's even worse. Ever wonder why the guy didn't retain a job as OC for long? 

 

The reality of the situation is that the line could have been upgraded as soon as they found out Eric Wood was done. This happened on freaking Jan 26th is when he announced his retirement. Which is more then enough time to find an equal replacement. Draft, free agency, trade.  The problem is this FO thought everything would be fine with Ryan Groy and it wasn't.

Richie Incognito retired in April 2018 which was more then enough time to find an equal replacement and again they didn't. This FO thought everything would be fine with Vlad Ducasse and again, it wasn't!  

This is complete incompetence on the line coach, the OC, the HC, the GM as the buck stops at the top. 

 

Like I said earlier, this season didn't have to be a wash if the FO went out and replaced the OC, LG and RG properly. Found a better veteran QB to start the season. There is always a way to find money to bring in quality talent. They should have replaced the line coach with someone that knows what they are doing. Hired a better OC with a better record along with someone that has mentored rookie QBs. Same with the QB coach. 

 

Ya know what? There is still time to fix some things as this team enters the bye week and it could determine what happens at the end of the season to this regime. Fire Daboll during the bye week or simply demote him and promote the WR coach Terry Robiskie to OC. Let him see if he can fix the run game and help the QBs make some plays, get the team scoring TDs. 

 

This year was no rebuild, as that is just an excuse some fans are throwing out there to defend this regime. This coaching staff simply has no idea what they are doing on offense and I only hope to god that these owners don't retain these morons. I don't think I can take another season of Daboll, Castillo and perhaps watching that rookie QB get ruined by a bunch of incompetent morons. 

 

On another note, Peterman has a QBR of 6.5...

A couple things here.  One you say they had plenty of time to find a replacement for Wood.  They had one on the roster:  Groy.  He didn't meet expectations after filling in admirably a couple seasons ago.  and they did sign Bodine.  And you also talk about having plenty of time to get a replacement for Richie.  Now, given the dearth of O linemen in the league as it is, name for me at least two different centers and two different guards, on the free agent market, that they could have signed that would have changed things.  You say they were derelict in their duty, then I presume you have folks in mind hat they should have signed.

 

Now, would I have played Allen?  IF he was my best QB on the roster, yes.  And I think he was opening day.  The hit that put him out was a fluke where he got caught between two guys.  I do agree, as does Beane, as does everyone as far as I can tell, that they should have had a vet come in when they traded McCarron.  The QB coach, by the way, was recommended by Andy Reid, who many here hold up as some kind of QB savant.

 

Now, as to getting rid of guys.  They're not going anywhere.  I understand people are getting some kind of emotional release by yelling for it, but they are not going anywhere.  They only possible scenario where that could happen is if they lose every single game the rest of the season in blowout fashion, and when Allen comes back that won't happen.

 

Doesn't mean that the coaches are perfect.  Can't have these blowouts and can't have the penalties like they did last week.  Doesn't mean Beane and McD don't have things to fix.  But they have a lan, and part of that is having the cap space and picks to build things the way they see fit.  They'll get that opportunity.

[billsfan_34]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:07 PM, John from Riverside said:

I don’t believe shady is done the o line I. Front of him is a disaster

 

you turn that into a strength and this whole offense looks different

 

zay is a number 3 guy we need two quality wrs in the offseason this CAN be done

A number 3 needs to have some strength and YAC ability- Zay hasn’t shown this as of yet- the jury is out. His hands and route running has improved from year one, but is it enough? 

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, billsfan_34 said:

80 percent of the player on offense need to be overhauled. Let me start- every receiver is a trash pile. Our rb’s are old and Murphy isnt an NFL back- Ivory may have some life left but McCoy is done. The offensive line is just that, offensive. DiMarco, that FB that does something stupid every week flat out sucks. The only QB that should stay is Josh Allen- we need 2 more next year. Our TE’s are all garbage- Clay is old and slow.

Any objective fan could see that the above is 100% true. In fact, I think you might have been a bit too easy on Ivory. If he continues to play, do you really think that there will be much left of him next year?

 

The cap space and especially the draft picks will help quite a bit, but imo they will need 2 years to contend. This team is as bad as one can imagine on offense, and some of our best defenders are old.

 

I think the team can be turned around, but not in 1 season. Not when a team is THIS bad.

[Fan in Chicago]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Any objective fan could see that the above is 100% true. In fact, I think you might have been a bit too easy on Ivory. If he continues to play, do you really think that there will be much left of him next year?

 

The cap space and especially the draft picks will help quite a bit, but imo they will need 2 years to contend. This team is as bad as one can imagine on offense, and some of our best defenders are old.

 

I think the team can be turned around, but not in 1 season. Not when a team is THIS bad.

Sad thing is that, despite the repeated spin put by John , Alpha and others, much of this incompetence is self inflicted. Any one can excuse a single move made by the FO but in entirety, it is a mess. Whaley was let go primarily because he could not build a winning team. Seeing how they paid such low attention to the offense, I have no confidence that this FO is phililosophically any better. The flip side to the 'give them time' plea is that by the time the offense is any good, the D would have slid. 

 

I just don't buy this logic that the cupboard was bare and needed a complete oberhaul. Plenty of examples around the league where new coaches have turned around a franchise in <2 years. The disaster we are seeing as a follow up to a playoff season is an utter inexcusable debacle. 

22 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

A number 3 needs to have some strength and YAC ability- Zay hasn’t shown this as of yet- the jury is out. His hands and route running has improved from year one, but is it enough? 

I believe it could be enough if he has a true #1 and a speedster to complement him. 

[billsfan_34]

10 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Any objective fan could see that the above is 100% true. In fact, I think you might have been a bit too easy on Ivory. If he continues to play, do you really think that there will be much left of him next year?

 

The cap space and especially the draft picks will help quite a bit, but imo they will need 2 years to contend. This team is as bad as one can imagine on offense, and some of our best defenders are old.

 

I think the team can be turned around, but not in 1 season. Not when a team is THIS bad.

You are right about Ivory- I think he is just on a 1 year deal anyways. Allen needs an offseason with some serious fundamentals work- He has all the tools but the accuracy scares me. 

 

Hopefully we are able to address many things with our healthy cap and ten picks in the offseason. I agree, it will take a few years. The sooner Allen gets back in under center this season the better off we will be- he needs to continue to see things at NFL speed.

 

it is possible we draft number 1 overall. It is a very good problem to have. If im the Bills brass, im not drafting for need- im drafting BPA! That is how you really turn things around. In FA- get your number 2 QB behind Allen and Address other things in the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, billsfan_34 said:

 

it is possible we draft number 1 overall. It is a very good problem to have. If im the Bills brass, im not drafting for need- im drafting BPA! That is how you really turn things around. In FA- get your number 2 QB behind Allen and Address other things in the draft.

I can't agree with this 100%. If the bpa happens to be in the secondary, I would pass. Allen is young and needs tools and big time protection. I would, for this particular team, even draft a freaking RB before another corner. We both know who they passed on and took a corner 2 years ago.

 

Imho, the team will have the cap space and the picks to right the ship. They also have demonstrated the capability of screwing things up. I am hoping for a trade down and 2 seasons of multiple picks to increase the odds of good things happening.

[billsfan_34]

3 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I can't agree with this 100%. If the bpa happens to be in the secondary, I would pass. Allen is young and needs tools and big time protection. I would, for this particular team, even draft a freaking RB before another corner. We both know who they passed on and took a corner 2 years ago.

 

Imho, the team will have the cap space and the picks to right the ship. They also have demonstrated the capability of screwing things up. I am hoping for a trade down and 2 seasons of multiple picks to increase the odds of good things happening.

Great point on BPA! I cant see a corner bein bpa 1-3 in this years draft.

 

Allen definitely needs some weapons and line help. I do like the kid we just picked up- Isaac McKittle. We need some speed/separation/YAC guys desperately- 1 in FA and 1 in the draft is a positive step. It is time to really address the TE position as well.

[May Day 10]

This season, I expected, and was comfortable with a 4-6 win season, where they are fairly competitive due to their defense.  Much like last season (but last season they were very fortunate for once and their wins outpaced their performance).  Probably get outclassed once or twice.

 

 

What has happened this season is wheels coming off.  5th oldest team in the league.  Project quarterback shielded from training camp reps becomes the starter after 1 half due to negligent mismanagement.  

 

 

I don't think the plan was to take 10 steps back this season and become a bottom 1-3 team in the NFL.  I agree they had a 3 year plan, and behind closed doors were never planning on being a playoff team in 2017 or 2018.  This style of ineptitude is also not planned for though.  Wanted to build hard work culture, and that isnt accomplished by playing 20 quarters of garbage time in a season and scoring a TD once every 2 or 3 games.

Edited November 6, 2018 by May Day 10

[billsfan_34]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

This season, I expected, and was comfortable with a 4-6 win season, where they are fairly competitive due to their defense.  Much like last season (but last season they were very fortunate for once and their wins outpaced their performance).

 

 

What has happened this season is wheels coming off.  5th oldest team in the league.  Project quarterback shielded from training camp reps becomes the starter after 1 half due to negligent mismanagement.  

 

 

I don't think the plan was to take 10 steps back this season and become a bottom 1-3 team in the NFL.  I agree they had a 3 year plan, and behind closed doors were never planning on being a playoff team in 2017 or 2018.  This style of ineptitude is also not planned for though.  Wanted to build hard work culture, and that isnt accomplished by playing 20 quarters of garbage time in a season and scoring a TD once every 2 or 3 games.

FWIW- I was on the record for 2 wins- that looks like a real possibility. No one should really be surprised where we are at except the abysmal offensively offensive offense.

[BillsVet]

37 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The cap space and especially the draft picks will help quite a bit, but imo they will need 2 years to contend. This team is as bad as one can imagine on offense, and some of our best defenders are old.

 

I think the team can be turned around, but not in 1 season. Not when a team is THIS bad.

 

The cap space they should have isn't a bad thing, but I think you're correct here in that it won't be the solution to most of the team's problems.  And I'm not enamored with the offensive draft prospects in 2019, so it could very well be 2 years before they're playoff caliber.

 

McCoach is saying the right things, specifically his comments yesterday on WGR about high scoring teams and their success.  Whether he matches personnel decisions and organizational strategy to these comments is another thing.  He's a Jim Johnson guy and has grown up in the defensive world, so expecting him over one off-season to embrace offense would be surprising to me.  He's going to prioritize defense no matter what and that comes at the expense of developing a modern offense.

[jrober38]

15 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

FWIW- I was on the record for 2 wins- that looks like a real possibility. No one should really be surprised where we are at except the abysmal offensively offensive offense.

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

[Beans Dream]

100% agree with the OP.  It’s hard to live through, but it’s pretty obvious this was a rebuild.  After the off-season moves they made you’d be delusional to think this team was a contender.  Heck they pretty much came right out and said what they were doing.  Again it’s hard to watch the team you love get beat up week in and week out, but at least there is a strategy... mortgage the future for a franchise QB and build around him.  

 

They swung for the fences which so many of us have been asking them to do for years, now we have to patiently wait to see if the plan pays off long term.

 

I for one, have an opinion on the picks and moves they have made, but am willing to withhold judgment for at least a year.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

40 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I can't agree with this 100%. If the bpa happens to be in the secondary, I would pass. Allen is young and needs tools and big time protection. I would, for this particular team, even draft a freaking RB before another corner. We both know who they passed on and took a corner 2 years ago.

 

.

Bill, please, no RBs in the first round. Has Saquon Barkley helped the Giants turn the corner ? OTOH, Mack is putting the Bears in a different defensive league. RB are a luxury pick. Unless you are stacked on both sides of the ball, you never ever pick a RB in the first round. MCGahee....

Edited November 6, 2018 by Fan in Chicago

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Sad thing is that, despite the repeated spin put by John , Alpha and others, much of this incompetence is self inflicted. Any one can excuse a single move made by the FO but in entirety, it is a mess. Whaley was let go primarily because he could not build a winning team. Seeing how they paid such low attention to the offense, I have no confidence that this FO is phililosophically any better. The flip side to the 'give them time' plea is that by the time the offense is any good, the D would have slid. 

 

I just don't buy this logic that the cupboard was bare and needed a complete oberhaul. Plenty of examples around the league where new coaches have turned around a franchise in <2 years. The disaster we are seeing as a follow up to a playoff season is an utter inexcusable debacle. 

I believe it could be enough if he has a true #1 and a speedster to complement him. 

I have said since the beginning of the McDermott reign that the stated plan was to dramatically overhaul the roster and restructure the cap. That is exactly what they have been doing and are doing. You can disagree with the strategy but regardless that is the road that has been taken. In two years where is this team situated? While involved in the implementing their strategy in the first year in their tenure this regime made the playoffs with a non-playoff caliber of team. Are you going to complain about the breaking of that embarrassing and ignominious record? 

 

After the first year this regime maneuvered to draft what we hope to be our franchise qb. Will he attain that status? None of us knows for sure but I believe with the right support he will be. Are you going to complain about that considering that the Bills haven't had a legitimate franchise qb in a quarter century. 

 

The McBeane duo decided to restructure the cap in an accelerated fashion instead of stretching it out over years. In that way they would be able to clean the cap slate and have more flexibility to acquire free agents. That is the reason why this roster, especially on the OL and receiving unit, couldn't meaningfully be addressed this year. Because of that strategy there was a unanimity from NFL analysts that this was going to be a tough year for the Bills. The reason why there was unanimity from analysts as to how this season was going to unfold was because they understood the course of action this organization was taking. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but it is not difficult to understand why this team is struggling this year. You may disagree with the declared strategy but that doesn't alter the reality that that is the road that they took. To put it in simple terms: It is a rebuild. Did you expect an instantaneous result? 

 

Entering the offseason the Bills have a copious amount of cap money to add players. In addition, they have a full complement of draft picks. Without a doubt we will be drafting near the top of the board. My preference is to trade down and acquire additional picks to add more players. If this regime smartly handles their resources I'm counting on an infusion of talent to bolster this roster. The big question determining future success  for us as it is for the Jets and Browns is the development of their rookie qbs. On that issue we just have to wait and see. 

 

I understand what this regime is attempting to do, and I agree with it. Most of the doubters are looking at what is going on from a year to year perspective. That's more of a Whaley perspective of incremental change. That's the source of our divergence. I'm much more confident of our prospects in the not too distant future than those who are panicked by what has transpired on the field this year. 

[May Day 10]

i would be on board with that if they werent so stinking old.  

 

In the draft with all the QBs, they shouldnt have held onto McCoy, Taylor, Williams, Lorax, Wood, Incognito, etc.  They would have had the pick of the litter and not be forced to squander draft assets (and probably have even more with the McCoy trade).  This bottoming out is a year late and unnecessary.  

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Sad thing is that, despite the repeated spin put by John , Alpha and others, much of this incompetence is self inflicted. Any one can excuse a single move made by the FO but in entirety, it is a mess. Whaley was let go primarily because he could not build a winning team. Seeing how they paid such low attention to the offense, I have no confidence that this FO is phililosophically any better. The flip side to the 'give them time' plea is that by the time the offense is any good, the D would have slid. 

 

I just don't buy this logic that the cupboard was bare and needed a complete oberhaul. Plenty of examples around the league where new coaches have turned around a franchise in <2 years. The disaster we are seeing as a follow up to a playoff season is an utter inexcusable debacle. 

I believe it could be enough if he has a true #1 and a speedster to complement him. 

  What happens on other teams may not be analogous to what it going on with the Bills.  One thing being we had a bad contract at first with Mario Williams and later Dareus to be purged.  I'll ask did these other teams have 100M contracts on the books after the player who had it was gone?  Don't think so.  I'll add that I recall McDermott saying not to expect a lot this year.

[Ray Finkel]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Who those picks eventually got traded to and what those teams used them for is completely irrelevant.

 

Buffalo owned them and used them to get a QB who might eventually become a franchise QB.

 

You said:

 

 

 

 

And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

We will see about that

[Kaenon]

On 11/4/2018 at 6:51 PM, CaptnCoke11 said:

90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. 

Going to have to agree here.

[blacklabel]

21 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

faster then some would think though

 

Not super bowl good next year.......but much improved especially on offense and fun to watch again

Going 8-8 and recycling another coaching staff is not going to get you there any sooner sir

 

It will just be more of the same

 

I thought they'd be a little more competitive than what they have been this season. I figured they'd lose a bunch but I didn't think they'd get pummeled like they have week in and week out. There's just such a serious lack of talent on offense that they can't get out of their own way. And it can't all get fixed in one off-season. But, for 2019, I would hope that they make some progress and stop with the blowouts.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

Spot on- some sanity on the board is very refreshing.

 

If things continue on the same slope- we certainly stand a chance for worst offense ever. If Daboll survives this I will be shocked. Many may say he has to make due with what he has, however who is to say he hasnt had a say in personnel?

 

I am beginning to sense that McClappy doesnt have what it takes to be a HC- very evidenced by, as you stated, ignoring analytics/stats. 

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Adjusting for era, we might have the worst offense in NFL history.

 

I don't see how any coach can survive that. 

 

I too expected this team to be very poor (4-12), but I didn't expect this level of ineptitude. 

 

We can't block, we can't pass, we can't run, and we don't score. 

 

Additionally, I don't see any of the traits you see in top NFL coaches in Sean McDermott. He ignores percentages, and believes in punting and playing field position. He loves punting on 4th and short in opposition territory even though the math says that's clearly the wrong decision. 

 

Philosophically I just don't see a guy who is cut out to be a Head Coach in 2018. We don't appear to have any interest in analytics, and by default we're giving up an edge to many of the opponents we play. 

 

I watched the Saints-Rams game Sunday afternoon. Those teams look like they're playing a different sport than they one McDermott is trying to implement in Buffalo. 

Finally, a dose of reality.

 

I get that Bills fans want to defend their team, their coaches, their GM. I agree with jrober38 in that I expected a bad team (4-12 about right) due to the fact that they didn't adequately replace Woods, Incognito among other things. I don't think anyone expected this 2-7 debacle. 

 

There are some things that some fans just don't understand about what happened for most of the beginning of the season. Yes, the team got behind in points so the game plan went out the window and the OC went pass happy. It happened again in week 8 all game against the NE Patriots when the team was only behind 3 points in the first three quarters and it was only in the fourth that the Patriots jumped out far ahead. 

 

This OC going pass happy with a rookie QB was moronic, especially when you see him calling mid to deep passes that require a 5 to 7 step drop that takes time. Time for the receiver to break open, time for the QB to be able to step up in the pocket. The reality is that the Bills line wouldn't give the QBs more than two seconds most of time. Hence the 33 sacks which is second most sacks in the league. 

 

This offense wasn't set up for a rookie QB and the OC was calling plays like he had a veteran QB behind center that could read a pre-snap defense and call protections. Both Peterman and Allen are so raw that they don't know how to read a defense or set protections. Simply bad coaching. 

 

You know what I find striking in all this mess of a season is that in their two wins this team managed to run the ball very well against some very good defenses in Tennessee and Minnesota. Against Tenn, 43 runs, 20 passes, against Minn, 38 runs, 22 passes. This is the way the offense should have been all season and instead it's been the exact opposite with 30+ passes and 20 or so runs every game other then those two wins.

 

Now, everybody defending this regime is blaming the players and I do agree to a point. Look at the grading for these players and they are not off the charts bad like they look. It's bad coaching that is making them look worse then they actually are. HaplessBillsfan did an in depth study of the run blocking and found that this years line was overly complex in their blocking assignments. Just like the OC asking the line to do things that they aren't capable of doing. 

 

Somebody made a judgement call on the offensive line players. Somebody made a judgment call on the QB situation in starting Peterman, no veteran QB on the roster for the first five games. Somebody hired an OC that didn't have a very good resume and then wanted him to develop a rookie QB and a 2nd year QB with very limited experience. Somebody hired a QB that had never previously been a QB to help develop two young inexperienced QBs. Simple ineptitude!

 

We all need to remember that these owners fired a man they loved when they hired him during a 7-8 season because he regressed by one win!  The 2018 Buffalo Bills currently 2-7 with a bye week coming up after the NY Jets game @ the Jets.  2-8 at the bye? I want to hear what Terry Pegula thinks about all this. 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

 

22 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

... And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Ray Finkel said:

We will see about that

 

 

Um, no, it's a fact. Getting a QB who might be a franchise QB is building a foundation. That's already a fact. Not all foundations work out well. But this is indeed a foundation stone for them, along with the defense.

 

What we'll see about is whether the offense they're building the foundation for is successful or not. That is indeed up in the air. We should see the answer over the next two to three years.

 

13 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

 

We all need to remember that these owners fired a man they loved when they hired him during a 7-8 season because he regressed by one win!  The 2018 Buffalo Bills currently 2-7 with a bye week coming up after the NY Jets game @ the Jets.  2-8 at the bye? I want to hear what Terry Pegula thinks about all this. 

 

 

 

 

Nah. They didn't fire Rex because he regressed by a win. They fired him because he was coming across as a clown and because he hadn't delivered on his promises. Unlike McDermott, Rex promised a no-pain reload that was going to turn under his brilliant leadership into an excellent team very quickly. He couldn't deliver on any of that.

 

Whereas McDermott and Beane have been realistic about what's coming ... namely the pain of a rebuild followed by hope. They made their goal being a consistent competitor for championships. But they made it pretty clear it wouldn't come in the short term.

 

When / if it becomes obvious they can't deliver, they absolutely should be called to account. We'll have to wait to see how that turns out down the road.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Ol Dirty B]

20 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

A couple things here.  One you say they had plenty of time to find a replacement for Wood.  They had one on the roster:  Groy.  He didn't meet expectations after filling in admirably a couple seasons ago.  and they did sign Bodine.  And you also talk about having plenty of time to get a replacement for Richie.  Now, given the dearth of O linemen in the league as it is

 

Now, when you make this point. Which I think they were dealt a bad hand this off season, but I do think they could have done more. Do you not think the Cordy trade was a bad idea because Dawkins played good?

 

The RT has been a problem on this team for a few years now. So you have two good tackles, one on a rookie contract and your instinct is to trade one? I have serious doubts on their judgment.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Now, when you make this point. Which I think they were dealt a bad hand this off season, but I do think they could have done more. Do you not think the Cordy trade was a bad idea because Dawkins played good?

 

The RT has been a problem on this team for a few years now. So you have two good tackles, one on a rookie contract and your instinct is to trade one? I have serious doubts on their judgment.

Glenn was hurt pretty much all of last year.  They traded up to get their QB and that was the capital cinci wanted.  Tough to lose him but at the time it made sense.

[Nihilarian]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Glenn was hurt pretty much all of last year.  They traded up to get their QB and that was the capital cinci wanted.  Tough to lose him but at the time it made sense.

Buffalo was trading him so they had more ammo to move up to grab a QB as they got the 12th overall pick for him. The thinking must have been that Glenn was overpaid for what he brought @ 12 Mill per. While grading out well over the years he also regressed a bit until Incognito started next to him. Did the guy ever make the pro bowl? 

[Nihilarian]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Whereas McDermott and Beane have been realistic about what's coming ... namely the pain of a rebuild followed by hope. They made their goal being a consistent competitor for championships. But they made it pretty clear it wouldn't come in the short term.

You keep saying this and yet all I hear from this FO is that they want to win and are doing everything they can to do just that. This is what I hear! They have never, ever said anything about rebuilding.

 

"That's not it at all. It's about winning football games," McDermott said in June. "Our goals are to win now, because winning now helps you sustain success down the road."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/83848/buffalo-bills-coach-sean-mcdermott-avoiding-rebuilding-label-in-2017

 

 

They are failing this year... not due to a plan to rebuild ...but due to ineptitude in talent evaluation in the starting QB, the starting offensive linemen, the starting receiver corps.  

 

Perhaps he needs to look at the tape some more? 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

You keep saying this and yet all I hear from this FO is that they want to win and are doing everything they can to do just that. This is what I hear! They have never, ever said anything about rebuilding.

 

"That's not it at all. It's about winning football games," McDermott said in June. "Our goals are to win now, because winning now helps you sustain success down the road."

http://www.espn.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/83848/buffalo-bills-coach-sean-mcdermott-avoiding-rebuilding-label-in-2017

 

 

They are failing this year... not due to a plan to rebuild ...but due to ineptitude in talent evaluation in the starting QB, the starting offensive linemen, the starting receiver corps.  

 

Perhaps he needs to look at the tape some more? 

do you really expect a coach to say his team is rebiulding?   Come on sir

[Fan in Chicago]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

do you really expect a coach to say his team is rebiulding?   Come on sir

Then why should we believe him when he says he is trying to win games?