LSHMEAB Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: ^^^ This right here! This is Mahommes first thrust into the league. There isn’t a ton of game film on him and he has a ton of talented skill position players. Let’s see how next year goes for him. (And the rest of this year.) What in the name of God is with the MahoMMes thing? It doesn't even make sense. I could see if people were misspelling it Maholmes, but MahoMMes doesn't even sound right phonetically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: If Andy Reid is so smart, how come in all his years in Philly he passed on guys like Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, and Brees just to name a few off the top of my head? This goes back to the OP's point, not nearly as easy to predict as some want to think in hind sight. And lets give Mahomes more than half a season before we start sculpting his HOF bust here too. He had McNabb who he picked 2nd in the '99 draft. They went to 4 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl. Not ultimately successful, but better than most. He didn't draft those guys you mention because he had McNabb. He picked up Mike Vick and Nick Foles at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia, and those guys put up impressive numbers for him. In KC he pulled Alex Smith off the trash heap and and Smith proved to be a serviceable QB under Reid. This isn't Voodoo. The moral of the story is that if you want to pick a QB in the draft, you need a guy who knows offense to make the right choice. Reid, for all his faults at game management and shortcomings on defense, understands better than most how to scheme an offense, and he understands the skills a QB needs to run his scheme. This is more than a crapshoot. There's a reason why McDermott has hit on the Bills top defensive picks the last two drafts. The guy knows his scheme and he knows the type of player who best fits it. Reid knows the same for his offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, nucci said: Wentz is still recovering from a serious knee injury Sure. But results are results. It just means right now at this moment it’s different. It takes a long career to separate yourself. All that true right now, is whatever reality is now. 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: I don't get this. Why are so many people sure that young, successful QBs like Mahomes, Goff, Wentz and Watson will get worse, and on the flip side how can you be so convinced that Josh Allen will get better. If those guys can get worse as teams figure out their tendencies, isn't the same true for Allen? People aren’t yet sure of anything. Too early to tell works in both directions. That’s the point Edited October 31, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, MJS said: I don't watch college ball, but there was plenty debate about Mahomes. He fell to 10 for a reason, and many thought he would fall further than that. Allen was a consensus top 10 pick. Comparing their current situations is pretty obviously unfair. Allen was thrust into playing before he was ready and has no talent around him. He's on a team rebuilding. Mahomes went to an established team with tons of talent and didn't play until he was ready. He fell for the same reason Aaron Rodgers fell. Tedford had produced nothing but NFL busts and the Air Raid hadn't produced NFL stars. It really means nothing. The Chiefs made a smart decision and we made a poor one. I'm all for moving on, but why dismiss facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: He fell for the same reason Aaron Rodgers fell. Tedford had produced nothing but NFL busts and the Air Raid hadn't produced NFL stars. It really means nothing. The Chiefs made a smart decision and we made a poor one. I'm all for moving on, but why dismiss facts? Because your "fact" is an opinion. I don't know if Allen will be good or if Mahomes can keep it up. But I also don't pretend to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, MJS said: Because your "fact" is an opinion. I don't know if Allen will be good or if Mahomes can keep it up. But I also don't pretend to know. Do you think a single person involved in the NFL would take Josh Allen over Patrick Mahomes? That debate is 100 percent dead. At this point, I just hope Allen becomes serviceable. This is no longer hindsight. We've seen them play in the league. The Allen defenders are the ones injecting opinion(if Josh were on the Chiefs, he'd be lighting up the scoreboard!) That is an opinion. Their respective production is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Perry Turtle said: He had McNabb who he picked 2nd in the '99 draft. They went to 4 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl. Not ultimately successful, but better than most. He didn't draft those guys you mention because he had McNabb. He picked up Mike Vick and Nick Foles at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia, and those guys put up impressive numbers for him. In KC he pulled Alex Smith off the trash heap and and Smith proved to be a serviceable QB under Reid. This isn't Voodoo. The moral of the story is that if you want to pick a QB in the draft, you need a guy who knows offense to make the right choice. Reid, for all his faults at game management and shortcomings on defense, understands better than most how to scheme an offense, and he understands the skills a QB needs to run his scheme. This is more than a crapshoot. There's a reason why McDermott has hit on the Bills top defensive picks the last two drafts. The guy knows his scheme and he knows the type of player who best fits it. Reid knows the same for his offense. he didnt pull Alex smith off the trash heap.Smith was doing very well in SF at the time the niners gave things over to kaepernik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, technobot said: Long time lurker, first time poster: my 2 cents: Mahomes would have been wasted on this iteration of the Bills, especially considering the roster teardown that just occurred. We don't have the pieces nor the coaches to cultivate/develop him (yet). I believe he's got enough talent that we would have seen obvious flashes but my guess is he would not be tearing the league up like he is now. TBH, he would probably be running for his life. So don’t draft good players ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said: ^^^ This right here! This is Mahommes first thrust into the league. There isn’t a ton of game film on him and he has a ton of talented skill position players. Let’s see how next year goes for him. (And the rest of this year.) ?????? Wentz's second year in the league, with a year of film, he was an MVP candidate and won 11 games. His team won the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, zow2 said: Mahomes himself has said that Andy Reid is a genius. Reid's coaching and their weapons around Mahomes have probably tapped into his highest potential. I just don't recall anyone in the local or national media pounding the table for the Bills to draft Mahomes and/or saying after the draft how it was a horrible miss by Buffalo. It's all 20/20 hindsight stuff. In addition, the Bills got a pretty darn good CB with the KC pick at a huge value, based on where Tre was picked and how good he turned out to be. I recall in that draft if we were going QB, I wanted Deshaun Watson. Mahomes also said sitting for a year behind a vet like Alex Smith was invaluable. Perfectly handled by KC, hats off. We need a little luck, I’m afraid. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdjr85 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Perry Turtle said: It's telling that the majority of teams who passed on Mahomes have defensive-minded coaches or have a 'settled' QB situation (Chargers, Titans, Bengals). Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, was able to see the potential in Mahomes and traded up to make him the 10th pick. The Bears took Trubisky under Johnn Fox, a defensive-minded coach , but it's apparent that Mahomes is the better QB. Maybe the key to drafting a great QB is to have a more offensive-minded guy make the selection. Andy Ried wanted trubisky, that was there guy. The beara took him. They settled for mahomes. They where not all in on mahomes. Trubisky was what they wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlfcbb Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 My view on this is simple, how many teams in our situation would have traded down from 10 when we knew the problems we had at QB that year. In my view we should have been trading up to get a QB. I know we went on to make the playoffs but few could argue that was down to TT. And look at what happened when we got there. This is a QB driven league and you need to take a chance until you get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenNOTchosen1 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 What the hell is the point of this thread? Are you trying to make yourself feel better that the Bills passed on Mahomes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, The_Dude said: Yeah, it’s amazing how bad prople are at their jobs in the NFL. It was obvious the kid was a Hall if Famer coming out of college. I notice people have quit mocking me recently for saying that. Two years ago everybody told me how dumb I was. It wasn't obvious then and it's not obvious now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenNOTchosen1 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: Predicting Mahomes to be this good this fast was almost impossible. While he threw for a ton of yards in college and completed a high number of passes, neither of those things was unusual for a quarterback from Texas Tech. When it came to intangibles, he wasn't a winner, he didn't start a ton of games, and he tended to throw a lot of interceptions. Additionally, his mechanics looked kind of bad on tape. He stood out because he had a massive arm and was a uniquely gifted athlete. Sound familiar? When compared to Watson, he was nowhere near as special coming out when it came to the intangibles. And when you watched Trubisky, his tape kind of screamed, pro style QB who appeared ready despite a low number of starts. I am going to be honest, I disliked Mahomes about as much as I did Allen. Never saw it coming. Thought for sure Watson would be the best of the three. But I give a ton of respect to Reid. I think he is an amazingly underrated coach. And as for not taking those other great quarterbacks, he already had McNabb who is another underrated NFLer. BS. Plenty of people knew he would be a very good NFL QB so stop acting like this completely unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Cmdjr85 said: Andy Ried wanted trubisky, that was there guy. The beara took him. They settled for mahomes. They where not all in on mahomes. Trubisky was what they wanted Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth. I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said: BS. Plenty of people knew he would be a very good NFL QB so stop acting like this completely unexpected. And plenty of people were skeptical. You pull your predraft opinion out of the archives and show me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenNOTchosen1 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth. I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do. McBeane has liked Trubiksy, Nathan Peterman, and Josh Allen. And they have not liked Watson, Mahomes, Rosen, etc. Not very encouraging at all. 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And plenty of people were skeptical. You pull your predraft opinion out of the archives and show me I certainly wasn't one that was skeptical. I knew right when we made the trade that KC had fleeced us big time. Edited October 31, 2018 by RosenNOTchosen1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdjr85 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth. I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do. whole segment on pro football talk live with florio discussing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said: McBeane has liked Trubiksy, Nathan Peterman, and Josh Allen. And they have not liked Watson, Mahomes, Rosen, etc. Not very encouraging at all. I certainly wasn't one that was skeptical. I knew right when we made the trade that KC had fleeced us big time. I'll take your word for it but I also know they're were people thinking he'd be just another Texas Tech failure, who now swear they were his biggest fans predraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It wasn't obvious then and it's not obvious now It was/is to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, The_Dude said: It was/is to me. He does look good right now. But you're just being ridiculous if you think anyone will believe you felt he was a HOFer before the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He does look good right now. But you're just being ridiculous if you think anyone will believe you felt he was a HOFer before the draft Im not a man who cares what people think. Nor am I the type of guy that’ll search this board and others to prove that I felt that way. I just know I’m better at figuring out QBs than the Bills. But that’s not saying much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 hours ago, DC Tom said: You know...I'm going to give up on the Bills and become a Chiefs fan, just so I CAN HEAR LESS ABOUT FRICKIN' MAHOMES!!! You wouldn’t escape it. Every kid in Kansas City is Pat Mahomes for Halloween. The fam base is all in. Also, just think how much better Mahomes would be if he had won more games at Texas Tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 hours ago, DC Tom said: You know...I'm going to give up on the Bills and become a Chiefs fan, just so I CAN HEAR LESS ABOUT FRICKIN' MAHOMES!!! Mahomes Mahomes Mahomes. Ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, The_Dude said: It was/is to me. ...send your resume' to: Bufflao Bills 1 Bills Drive Orchard Park, NY 14127 Attention: Desperately Devoid Of Football Management Department ...you'd be a lock...obviously wasting time HERE when you could be THERE, right?.............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Zerovotlz said: You wouldn’t escape it. Every kid in Kansas City is Pat Mahomes for Halloween. The fam base is all in. Also, just think how much better Mahomes would be if he had won more games at Texas Tech. Seriously? You need my post explained to you? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...send your resume' to: Bufflao Bills 1 Bills Drive Orchard Park, NY 14127 Attention: Desperately Devoid Of Football Management Department ...you'd be a lock...obviously wasting time HERE when you could be THERE, right?.............. Buddy, there are probably 100 people on this board that could run the Bills better than the Bills. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Just now, The_Dude said: Buddy, there are probably 100 people on this board that could run the Bills better than the Bills. Ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 9 hours ago, dtgolder said: Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. Dont give a ***** about other teams... the Bill's ALWAYS make these mistakes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Cmdjr85 said: Andy Ried wanted trubisky, that was there guy. The beara took him. They settled for mahomes. They where not all in on mahomes. Trubisky was what they wanted Well, that's not what Reid said, or Dorsey. They were unanimous on him. Both emphasized it. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article147392189.html https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article147284164.html Brett Veatch, current GM and maybe the guy most responsible for getting him to KC, explains it this way: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/23/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-andy-reid Back before the 2017 draft, Brett Veach—then the co-director of player personnel, now the Chiefs general manager—would see when the head coach would break for lunch. At that point in the day, Reid would have a pretty good read on the quarterback, and as he walked past the windows of Veach’s office, he would look down and swipe his hand from left to right as if to say “no way.” The kid couldn’t be their guy of the future. Then Patrick Mahomes visited to the team facilities. Veach saw Reid on his way to lunch and looked for a hand signal. He got eye contact and a thumbs-up—full approval from one of the best offensive minds in today’s NFL. “It wasn’t just a nod or a smile, it was a thumbs up with a smile,” Veach says. “Turning that hall I remember coach looking at me like, ‘Yeah, this is the dude.’ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emaw1979 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 If this type of QB success was predictable then teams would have been falling over each other to trade up to #1 to draft him. Teams would have Sucked-for-Mahomes like the Colts did for Luck. Obviously Reid and Co thought he'd be very good but no where near historically good, especially this fast. This is just the outcome when you have generational type talent meeting very good QB coaching and skill players around him. The scary thing is that he's only 9 games into his career as a starter and he has so much room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 20 hours ago, dtgolder said: Lots of folks lamenting the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes...but looking back at the 2017 draft it sure seems the Bills weren't the only ones... Recap: Mahomes was drafted 10th--looking at the players taken before him, we see: Myles Garrett (Cleveland) Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago) Solomon Thomas (San Francisco) Leonard Fournette (Jacksonville) Corey Davis (Tennessee) Jamal Adams (Jets) Mike Williams (Chargers) Christian McCaffrey (Carolina) John Ross (Bengals) Yes, certainly the Bills may have some "selection remorse" now for not taking Mahomes--but I'd argue that *any* of these teams would now gladly trade their pick for Mahomes. Sure there are some good players on the above list, but I'd bet that each and every one of them would be traded straight-up for Mahomes at this point...(one might even add the Rams to this list as they traded the fifth pick to the Titans...) And remember as well that there were a lot of questions about Mahomes at the time--some folks felt he was a great talent, while others were sure he'd be a bust... Just proves (yet again) that it's simply not that easy to predict success in the NFL, and particularly at the QB position. Passing on a potential franchise QB to take a DB because the team didn't re-sign the Pro Bowl DB that the team had drafted in the first round just five years before simply cannot be justified, no matter what mental gymnastics McDermott defenders try to employ. If the Bills had gotten a great edge rusher or a DT to clog up the middle of the line, there might be some legs to the argument for taking him over Mahomes, but a DB, even a great DB, is simply not that valuable. Compared to franchise QBs, shut down DBs are virtually "a dime a dozen". No excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, SoTier said: shut down DBs are virtually "a dime a dozen" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 14 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Ha ha ha I mean, you can't really dispute the possibility at least considering how bad the Bills are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, The_Dude said: I mean, you can't really dispute the possibility at least considering how bad the Bills are. ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtgolder Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Sure--hindsight is 20-20...and it's not just the "bad" teams that missed on Mahomes....think about it-- If say the Pats thought he was as good as he now seems to be before the draft, wouldn't they have traded up to secure Brady's replacement? There were 10 teams they could have traded with to secure that pick...same is true for any other NFL team you can name. EVERYONE in the league (save the Chiefs) missed the mark on this kid (not just the 'bad' teams). Bottom line: predicting QB success is elusive. And the jury is still out on all of the 2018 (and 2017 for that matter) QBs, including Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyBeets Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 People are so quick to annoint the next great QB. Sustained success is a that matters, if he's this good 5 years from now then yes, good QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: What I said was, "Compared to franchise QBs, shut down DBs are virtually 'a dime a dozen'." If you quote someone, use the entire quote, not just a part you can make fun with a cutsey image. No excuses for you any more than for McDermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Mahomes has really been impressive and beyond that of remarkable. Pays to sit for a year on the sideline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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