Mahomes perspective - success not that easy to predict

[LSHMEAB]

12 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

^^^ This right here! This is Mahommes first thrust into the league. There isn’t a ton of game film on him and he has a ton of talented skill position players. Let’s see how next year goes for him. (And the rest of this year.)

What in the name of God is with the MahoMMes thing? It doesn't even make sense. I could see if people were misspelling it Maholmes, but MahoMMes doesn't even sound right phonetically.

[Perry Turtle]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

If Andy Reid is so smart, how come in all his years in Philly he passed on guys like Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, and Brees just to name a few off the top of my head?

 

This goes back to the OP's point, not nearly as easy to predict as some want to think in hind sight.  And lets give Mahomes more than half a season before we start sculpting his HOF bust here too.

He had McNabb who he picked 2nd in the '99 draft.  They went to 4 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl.  Not ultimately successful, but better than most.

 

He didn't  draft those guys you mention because he had McNabb. 

 

He picked up Mike Vick and Nick Foles at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia, and those guys put up impressive numbers for him.

 

In KC he pulled Alex Smith off the trash heap and and Smith proved to be a serviceable QB under Reid.

 

This isn't Voodoo.  The moral of the story is that if you want to pick a QB in the draft, you need a guy who knows offense to make the right choice.  

 

Reid, for all his faults at game management and shortcomings on defense, understands better than most how to scheme an offense, and he understands the skills a QB needs to run his scheme.

 

This is more than a crapshoot.  There's a reason why McDermott has hit on the Bills top defensive picks the last two drafts.  The guy knows his scheme and he knows the type of player who best fits it.  Reid knows the same for his offense. 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

Wentz is still recovering from a serious knee injury

Sure. But results are results.  It just means right now at this moment it’s different. It takes a long career to separate yourself. All that true right now, is whatever reality is now. 

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't get this. Why are so many people sure that young, successful QBs like Mahomes, Goff, Wentz and Watson will get worse, and on the flip side how can you be so convinced that Josh Allen will get better.

 

If those guys can get worse as teams figure out their tendencies, isn't the same true for Allen? 

 

People aren’t yet sure of anything.  Too early to tell works in both directions. That’s the point 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 

I don't watch college ball, but there was plenty debate about Mahomes. He fell to 10 for a reason, and many thought he would fall further than that. Allen was a consensus top 10 pick.

 

Comparing their current situations is pretty obviously unfair. Allen was thrust into playing before he was ready and has no talent around him. He's on a team rebuilding. Mahomes went to an established team with tons of talent and didn't play until he was ready.

He fell for the same reason Aaron Rodgers fell.

 

Tedford had produced nothing but NFL busts and the Air Raid hadn't produced NFL stars.

 

It really means nothing. The Chiefs made a smart decision and we made a poor one. I'm all for moving on, but why dismiss facts?

[MJS]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

He fell for the same reason Aaron Rodgers fell.

 

Tedford had produced nothing but NFL busts and the Air Raid hadn't produced NFL stars.

 

It really means nothing. The Chiefs made a smart decision and we made a poor one. I'm all for moving on, but why dismiss facts?

 

Because your "fact" is an opinion.

 

I don't know if Allen will be good or if Mahomes can keep it up. But I also don't pretend to know.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, MJS said:

 

Because your "fact" is an opinion.

 

I don't know if Allen will be good or if Mahomes can keep it up. But I also don't pretend to know.

Do you think a single person involved in the NFL would take Josh Allen over Patrick Mahomes? That debate is 100 percent dead. At this point, I just hope Allen becomes serviceable. 

 

This is no longer hindsight. We've seen them play in the league. The Allen defenders are the ones injecting opinion(if Josh were on the Chiefs, he'd be lighting up the scoreboard!) That is an opinion. Their respective production is fact.

[Tcali]

1 hour ago, Perry Turtle said:

He had McNabb who he picked 2nd in the '99 draft.  They went to 4 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl.  Not ultimately successful, but better than most.

 

He didn't  draft those guys you mention because he had McNabb. 

 

He picked up Mike Vick and Nick Foles at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia, and those guys put up impressive numbers for him.

 

In KC he pulled Alex Smith off the trash heap and and Smith proved to be a serviceable QB under Reid.

 

This isn't Voodoo.  The moral of the story is that if you want to pick a QB in the draft, you need a guy who knows offense to make the right choice.  

 

Reid, for all his faults at game management and shortcomings on defense, understands better than most how to scheme an offense, and he understands the skills a QB needs to run his scheme.

 

This is more than a crapshoot.  There's a reason why McDermott has hit on the Bills top defensive picks the last two drafts.  The guy knows his scheme and he knows the type of player who best fits it.  Reid knows the same for his offense. 

 

 

 

 

he didnt pull Alex smith off the trash heap.Smith was doing very well in SF at the time the  niners gave things over to kaepernik.

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, technobot said:

Long time lurker, first time poster:

 

my 2 cents:  Mahomes would have been wasted on this iteration of the Bills, especially considering the roster teardown that just occurred.  We don't have the pieces nor the coaches to cultivate/develop him (yet).  I believe he's got enough talent that we would have seen obvious flashes but my guess is he would not be tearing the league up like he is now.  TBH, he would probably be running for his life.

 

So don’t draft good players ? 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

^^^ This right here! This is Mahommes first thrust into the league. There isn’t a ton of game film on him and he has a ton of talented skill position players. Let’s see how next year goes for him. (And the rest of this year.)

?????? 

 

Wentz's second year in the league, with a year of film, he was an MVP candidate and won 11 games.  His team won the Super Bowl.

 

[Augie]

4 hours ago, zow2 said:

Mahomes himself has said that Andy Reid is a genius.  Reid's coaching and their weapons around Mahomes have probably tapped into his highest potential.   I just don't recall anyone in the local or national media pounding the table for the Bills to draft Mahomes and/or saying after the draft how it was a horrible miss by Buffalo.  It's all 20/20 hindsight  stuff.  In addition, the Bills got a pretty darn good CB with the KC pick at a huge value, based on where Tre was picked and how good he turned out to be.

 

I recall in that draft if we were going QB, I wanted Deshaun Watson.   

 

Mahomes also said sitting for a year behind a vet like Alex Smith was invaluable. Perfectly handled by KC, hats off. We need a little luck, I’m afraid. Fingers crossed. 

[Cmdjr85]

6 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

It's telling that the majority of teams who passed on Mahomes have defensive-minded coaches or have a 'settled' QB situation (Chargers, Titans, Bengals).

 

Andy Reid, one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, was able to see the potential in Mahomes and traded up to make him the 10th pick.  

 

The Bears took Trubisky under Johnn Fox, a defensive-minded coach , but it's apparent that Mahomes is the better QB.

 

Maybe the key to drafting a great QB is to have a more offensive-minded guy make the selection.

 

Andy Ried wanted trubisky, that was there guy. The beara took him. They settled for mahomes. They where not all in on mahomes. Trubisky was what they wanted

[tlfcbb]

My view on this is simple, how many teams in our situation would have traded down from 10 when we knew the problems we had at QB that year.  In my view we should have been trading up to get a QB.  I know we went on to make the playoffs but few could argue that was down to TT.  And look at what happened when we got there. This is a QB driven league and you need to take a chance until you get it right. 

[RosenNOTchosen1]

What the hell is the point of this thread?

 

Are you trying to make yourself feel better that the Bills passed on Mahomes?

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Yeah, it’s amazing how bad prople are at their jobs in the NFL. It was obvious the kid was a Hall if Famer coming out of college. I notice people have quit mocking me recently for saying that. Two years ago everybody told me how dumb I was. 

It wasn't obvious then and it's not obvious now

[RosenNOTchosen1]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Predicting Mahomes to be this good this fast was almost impossible.   While he threw for a ton of yards in college and completed a high number of passes, neither of those things was unusual for a quarterback from Texas Tech.   When it came to intangibles, he wasn't a winner, he didn't start a ton of games, and he tended to throw a lot of interceptions.   Additionally, his mechanics looked kind of bad on tape.   He stood out because he had a massive arm and was a uniquely gifted athlete.  Sound familiar?

 

When compared to Watson, he was nowhere near as special coming out when it came to the intangibles.   And when you watched Trubisky, his tape kind of screamed, pro style QB who appeared ready despite a low number of starts.   I am going to be honest, I disliked Mahomes about as much as I did Allen.   Never saw it coming.  Thought for sure Watson would be the best of the three.

 

But I give a ton of respect to Reid.  I think he is an amazingly underrated coach.   And as for not taking those other great quarterbacks, he already had McNabb who is another underrated NFLer. 

BS.

 

Plenty of people knew he would be a very good NFL QB so stop acting like this completely unexpected. 

[LSHMEAB]

13 minutes ago, Cmdjr85 said:

Andy Ried wanted trubisky, that was there guy. The beara took him. They settled for mahomes. They where not all in on mahomes. Trubisky was what they wanted

Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth.

 

I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do.

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

BS.

 

Plenty of people knew he would be a very good NFL QB so stop acting like this completely unexpected. 

And plenty of people were skeptical.  You pull your predraft opinion out of the archives and show me

[RosenNOTchosen1]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth.

 

I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do.

 

McBeane has liked Trubiksy, Nathan Peterman, and Josh Allen.

 

And they have not liked Watson, Mahomes, Rosen, etc.

 

Not very encouraging at all. 

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And plenty of people were skeptical.  You pull your predraft opinion out of the archives and show me

I certainly wasn't one that was skeptical.

I knew right when we made the trade that KC had fleeced us big time. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by RosenNOTchosen1

[Cmdjr85]

11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Source? If that's true, Andy Reid is the luckiest S.O.B. to ever walk the face of the earth.

 

I've heard Beane liked Trubisky, which is not encouraging if you think Trubisky kind of sucks, which I do.

 

whole segment on pro football talk live with florio discussing this

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

McBeane has liked Trubiksy, Nathan Peterman, and Josh Allen.

 

And they have not liked Watson, Mahomes, Rosen, etc.

 

Not very encouraging at all. 

I certainly wasn't one that was skeptical.

I knew right when we made the trade that KC had fleeced us big time. 

I'll take your word for it but I also know they're were people thinking he'd be just another Texas Tech failure, who now swear they were his biggest fans predraft.