2nd half thread: Bills at Colts 1 pm on CBS

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

I genuinely do not care. This season was a rebuilding year. Everyone knew that. Why is Everyone surprised here? 

It’s not surprise. It’s utter disgust. Rebuilding or not, worst in the NFL by a mile isn’t acceptable...ever. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Because the defense, special teams and offensive line aren't bad.

We're a decent QB away from having a really good team. 

 

This was Whales thinking and it didn't work. We have no offensive weapons at all. 

[Paulus]

5 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Yeah, you're probably right. Hey it's okay everybody, we might be good at some nebulous point in the future maybe, possibly, just keep accepting this miserable BS that is actually happening right now.

 

McDermott sucks.

So did Marrone to the Homers who have no understanding of the lack of talent on this team, nor the direction this team has been moving over the past 2 years. McDermott is safe, and that is partly due to the purge of salary cap/talent he was allowed to lead. 

 

Deal wit it.

[LSHMEAB]

I can live with the offensive disaster. I CANNOT live with the defensive disaster.

 

There is no excuse for this disgusting RZ defense. It has nothing to do with process or whatever garbage platitude you want to throw out there. This has been going on since McDermott arrived. If a team advances past our 30, it's a damn near automatic touchdown. The total opposite of a Belichick lead team. That is NOT acceptable even at this stage of the "rebuild."

 

I think McDermott does some things well and fires up the troops beyond their capability on occasion, but he is not the answer. 

 

Are we gonna fire Frazier and Daboll? I mean where does the lunacy end?

 

The RZ defense is the most disturbing aspect of his tenure and no amount of nonsense about year two is going to convince me that's not directly on the head coach.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

And at least he has that to fall back on until he progresses and we get some offensive help. I swear Bills fans can be some of the most negative people. I am living through Wyoming winters and a coaching staff that is clueless. I have put up with a Wyoming football program on par with the Bills, but I have never come even close to the negativity that this site gets to. Thank goodness for the good posters on this site. I need to look up the suicide rate in Buffalo one of these days.

 

Don't let it get you down too much.

Bad games bring out all the posters that love to scream.

I've followed this team for 50 years and have seen it all.

 

Today was another really bad game but I didn't think Anderson and this O would be any different.

The D is demoralized and this game has knocked out any playoff chances to the few who thought they still had a shot.

After the bye week hopefully we see all the younger guys get a shot (Allen also) and it's off to the draft and FA.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Edited October 21, 2018 by joesixpack

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

I can live with the offensive disaster. I CANNOT live with the defensive disaster.

 

There is no excuse for this disgusting RZ defense. It has nothing to do with process or whatever garbage platitude you want to throw out there. This has been going on since McDermott arrived. If a team advances past our 30, it's a damn near automatic touchdown. The total opposite of a Belichick lead team. That is NOT acceptable even at this stage of the "rebuild."

 

I think McDermott does some things well and fires up the troops beyond their capability on occasion, but he is not the answer. 

 

Are we gonna fire Frazier and Daboll? I mean where does the lunacy end?

 

The RZ defense is the most disturbing aspect of his tenure and no amount of nonsense about year two is going to convince me that's not directly on the head coach.

Too me it looked like a lot of missed tackles, poor reaction time and overall a lack of heart—and that’s what was discouraging to see. Clays fumble was the turning point and that should not have been the case. They’re better than that, and McD better figure out how to motivate them this week before NE rolls in. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

You're comparing Allen to a guy signed off the street a week and a half ago.

 

And the offense production was no better.

 

This offense is a dumpster fire. Our QBs are all horrible. 

 

Quit backtracking. You and too many others in this fanbase thought for sure that Allen was the biggest problem with the O and putting any veteran in his place would work wonders. 

 

You were all proven dead wrong today. Own it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 Own it.

 

Best of luck with that.

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Quit backtracking. You and too many others in this fanbase thought for sure that Allen was the biggest problem with the O and putting any veteran in his place would work wonders. 

 

You were all proven dead wrong today. Own it.

 

I never said putting in a veteran would make things better.

 

Our offense is a joke. Doesn't matter if Peterman, Allen or Anderson are on the field, that side of the ball has been a complete joke all season. 

[Paulus]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

And whose fault is that?

Some would argue circumstance. Eric Wood leaving was not foreseeable. Richie was a huge mistake by Beane, IMO (McDermott allowed it). And, Glenn was deemed a liability.

 

 

Bottom line, it is McBeane's responsibility to prevent from happening, not necessarily their fault it did. They have done a poor job scouting WRs, and preparing an average at best OL from being far below average. Also, Daboll was as huge of a mistake as is the disregard for the WR position. At least it seems that way.

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Too me it looked like a lot of missed tackles, poor reaction time and overall a lack of heart—and that’s what was discouraging to see. Clays fumble was the turning point and that should not have been the case. They’re better than that, and McD better figure out how to motivate them this week before NE rolls in. 

That would be fine if it were one game.

 

This sh*tty RZ defense has been a staple of the McDermott era. If we're not getting turnovers or forcing quick 3 and outs, we're giving up TD's.

 

It it unacceptable and cannot be explained as part of any process.

[Paulus]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

I never said putting in a veteran would make things better.

 

Our offense is a joke. Doesn't matter if Peterman, Allen or Anderson are on the field, that side of the ball has been a complete joke all season. 

You were just praising the OL... I'm sure you won't question Shady. Therefore???...

[CSBill]

24 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Anderson really looks like he's regretting his decision.    Too sad, but too funny...

 

Whether it was Anderson, or whomever, we still have the same non-receivers. They just suck.

 

[ColoradoBills]

Bears with a hail mary to the 1.  So close.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Paulus said:

Some would argue circumstance. Eric Wood leaving was not foreseeable. Richie was a huge mistake by Beane, IMO (McDermott allowed it). And, Glenn was deemed a liability.

 

 

Bottom line, it is McBeane's responsibility to prevent from happening, not necessarily their fault it did. They have done a poor job scouting WRs, and preparing an average at best OL from being far below average. Also, Daboll was as huge of a mistake as is the disregard for the WR position. At least it seems that way.

 

I agree, they had some tough luck on the Oline. I didnt like the Glenn trade, but they did get a good return.

 

I just think they haven't addressed the offense at all.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Paulus said:

You were just praising the OL... I'm sure you won't question Shady. Therefore???...

 

We have the worst QB situation in the league. 

 

I dunno what you're looking for.

 

Our 1st round pick has been really bad so far, and the other guys haven't looked like they belong on an NFL roster.

 

How we got to this point is hard to comprehend. 

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

We have the worst QB situation in the league. 

 

I dunno what you're looking for.

 

Our 1st round pick has been really bad so far, and the other guys haven't looked like they belong on an NFL roster.

 

How we got to this point is hard to comprehend. 

 

The sad thing is that if Josh does not work out, choosing him (and everything we did to get him) will set this franchise back even further.

[Aussie Joe]

43 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Baker Mayfield just threw a go-ahead 4th QTR TD. 

 

Err, I mean tying. 

 

And then what happened?

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Cause if your not playing like LT or Ray Lewis you need to be traded.

 

For draft picks!

I agree.  It is funny how before the season began, there was so much calm and logical talk about this being a rebuilding year and that we would see an improved team next year.  The comments were if we win 4 or 5 games and Allen showed improvement,  that would be a successful season.  Now so many are  a surprises at how bad we are.  They are ready to dump Allen and draft a new franchise qb with in 2019.  I guess that is why we are called fans (fanatic)

[thebandit27]

36 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

The sad thing is that if Josh does not work out, choosing him (and everything we did to get him) will set this franchise back even further.

 

How so?

 

The simple fact is that it will do no such thing.

 

The only thing that could set the team back is if they have no contingency plan at the position.

[Real McClappy]

25 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I agree.  It is funny how before the season began, there was so much calm and logical talk about this being a rebuilding year and that we would see an improved team next year.  The comments were if we win 4 or 5 games and Allen showed improvement,  that would be a successful season.  Now so many are  a surprises at how bad we are.  They are ready to dump Allen and draft a new franchise qb with in 2019.  I guess that is why we are called fans (fanatic)

The next 9 games are going to be a rough ride. I just hope to see progression from Allen on pre snap reads and decision making overall. Next year will be the tell tale for this Front office and Josh. I hope they don't disappoint. 

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

We have the worst QB situation in the league. 

 

I dunno what you're looking for.

 

Our 1st round pick has been really bad so far, and the other guys haven't looked like they belong on an NFL roster.

 

How we got to this point is hard to comprehend. 

I think we agree for the most part.

 

We disagree about JA. None of the RC Qbs have been consistent, and will take some time to either develop or bust. I think Daboll needs to go ASAP.

 

Trading McCoy may also be prudent, this year.

[Figster]

27 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I agree.  It is funny how before the season began, there was so much calm and logical talk about this being a rebuilding year and that we would see an improved team next year.  The comments were if we win 4 or 5 games and Allen showed improvement,  that would be a successful season.  Now so many are  a surprises at how bad we are.  They are ready to dump Allen and draft a new franchise qb with in 2019.  I guess that is why we are called fans (fanatic)

I went from thinking watching Anderson will do Allen good to thinking the Buffalo Bills are not the same football team without Josh Allen.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[longtimebillsfan]

41 minutes ago, Figster said:

I went from thinking watching Anderson will do Allen good to thinking the Buffalo Bills are not the same football team without Josh Allen.

 

 

 

 

 

  

Yes.  Allen will be better off playing that sitting and watching.   Let's hope he is back in a couple of weeks.  He still looks like the best qb on our roster. 

[Peter]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

How so?

 

The simple fact is that it will do no such thing.

 

The only thing that could set the team back is if they have no contingency plan at the position.

 

How so?!?

 

To quote John McEnroe - You cannot be serious!

 

Do you know how much capital we gave up to make the moves that we did to even be in a position to draft Josh?

 

We certainly would have been better off just drafting Mahomes and keeping all of those assets . . . including Cordy Glenn.

 

If Josh does not work out, we are back to the drawing board.

 

As for whether we have a "contingency plan," this year has clearly shown that we did not have a contingency plan or any idea how to manage the QB situation.

[longtimebillsfan]

56 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

The next 9 games are going to be a rough ride. I just hope to see progression from Allen on pre snap reads and decision making overall. Next year will be the tell tale for this Front office and Josh. I hope they don't disappoint. 

I have higher expectations next year.  I would give McDermott and Beane through the 2020 season before looking for a change.  We have gone through so many coaches.  I want to give this management team time to get it right.

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I have higher expectations next year.  I would give McDermott and Beane through the 2020 season before looking for a change.  We have gone through so many coaches.  I want to give this management team time to get it right.

 

I generally agree that we have hurt ourselves by our lack of continuity. It was very unfair to fire a coach in less than two seasons or to throw him under the bus behind the scenes during his last season.

 

Having said that, I really would like McBeane to show that we should have confidence in them going forward.  Right now, I have very little confidence.  I also suspect that they will be forced to overpay to attract free agents this off season . . . presuming that they can attract quality free agents to be a part of this cluster you know what.

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

How so?!?

 

To quote John McEnroe - You cannot be serious!

 

Do you know how much capital we gave up to make the moves that we did to even be in a position to draft Josh?

 

We certainly would have been better off just drafting Mahomes and keeping all of those assets . . . including Cordy Glenn.

 

If Josh does not work out, we are back to the drawing board.

 

As for whether we have a "contingency plan," this year has clearly shown that we did not have a contingency plan or any idea how to manage the QB situation.

 

In order:

yes, how so?

yes, two 2nd round picks. So what?

no *****. I pounded the table for Mahomes

yep, big deal. You get it wrong at QB and you try again in 2 years. Keep going until you get it right 

right, and THATS the mistake. Not having a contingency plan is what sets the team back, not getting the QB pick wrong

[Real McClappy]

23 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I have higher expectations next year.  I would give McDermott and Beane through the 2020 season before looking for a change.  We have gone through so many coaches.  I want to give this management team time to get it right.

I'm with that as well. If we see these lopsided losses next year frequently I'm not sure we can play through 2020 for continuity alone though. If we are competitive week in and week out I'm all for the ride. 

[Peter]

22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

In order:

yes, how so?

yes, two 2nd round picks. So what?

no *****. I pounded the table for Mahomes

yep, big deal. You get it wrong at QB and you try again in 2 years. Keep going until you get it right 

right, and THATS the mistake. Not having a contingency plan is what sets the team back, not getting the QB pick wrong

 

You seem to have forgotten that they also traded the 21st pick in the first round and Cordy Glenn to move up to 12 and then traded 12 and the 53 and 56th picks to trade up to 7.  In the last trade, the Bills gave up a premium to move up (according to the Ringer, 167 cents on the dollar):

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/26/17288362/2018-draft-buffalo-bills-trade-josh-allen-tampa-bay-buccaneers

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/12/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-cordy-glenn-2018-nfl-draft/

 

If the Bills had just picked Mahomes (he who some say shall not be named), the Bills would have been able to keep all of that capital and could have had Mahomes take a year behind TT as he did last year behind Alex Smith.  The Bills also could have used some of those assets to improve the offense around the QB.

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Peter

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

You seem to have forgotten that they also traded the 21st pick in the first round and Cordy Glenn to move up to 12 and then traded 12 and the 53 and 56th picks to trade up to 7.  In the last trade, the Bills gave up a premium to move up (according to the Ringer, 167 cents on the dollar):

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/26/17288362/2018-draft-buffalo-bills-trade-josh-allen-tampa-bay-buccaneers

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/12/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-cordy-glenn-2018-nfl-draft/

 

If the Bills had just picked Mahomes (he who some say shall not be named), the Bills would have been able to keep all of that capital and could have had Mahomes take a year behind TT as he did last year behind Alex Smith.  The Bills also could have used some of those assets to improve the offense around the QB.

 

 

You must've missed the part where I said "no *****. I pounded the table for Mahomes".

 

But they didn't pick Mahomes, and they needed to take a shot at a QB, so they did what was necessary.

 

Because in the NFL, you aren't winning anything without a franchise QB, and they weren't getting one of the top 4 without moving into the top 10.

[BB@Shooter]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

The sad thing is that if Josh does not work out, choosing him (and everything we did to get him) will set this franchise back even further.

If, if if.

10 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

You seem to have forgotten that they also traded the 21st pick in the first round and Cordy Glenn to move up to 12 and then traded 12 and the 53 and 56th picks to trade up to 7.  In the last trade, the Bills gave up a premium to move up (according to the Ringer, 167 cents on the dollar):

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/26/17288362/2018-draft-buffalo-bills-trade-josh-allen-tampa-bay-buccaneers

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/12/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-cordy-glenn-2018-nfl-draft/

 

If the Bills had just picked Mahomes (he who some say shall not be named), the Bills would have been able to keep all of that capital and could have had Mahomes take a year behind TT as he did last year behind Alex Smith.  The Bills also could have used some of those assets to improve the offense around the QB.

 

Hindsight always turns out pretty good don't you think? And what about all those other teams that didn't snap up Mahomes? Are they ranting like you goofs? It is what it is. Every team and every fan can play the what if card. Doesn't change a dang thing. Get over it. What if another team took Jim Kelly and you got one of the dud qbs? It doesn't work to play the what if card. Nothing changes.

[BB@Shooter]

3 hours ago, COTC said:

This post is so strange it makes my head hurt. 

 

This cant be your true feeling.

 

You’re just playing devils advocate, right?

I can see where it is the receivers fault where Peterman thew the pick six to lose the game.... the receiver should have instinctively known Peterman was going to throw a late pass to him and knocked down the cornerback before the ball got there. Isn't that a receivers job? No way should the qb have not looked the cornerback off. Or better yet, not thrown the pass. But let's blame the offense, even though it allowed Peterman to throw for a TD.

[Peter]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

You must've missed the part where I said "no *****. I pounded the table for Mahomes".

 

But they didn't pick Mahomes, and they needed to take a shot at a QB, so they did what was necessary.

 

Because in the NFL, you aren't winning anything without a franchise QB, and they weren't getting one of the top 4 without moving into the top 10.

 

No, I read the part about Mahomes.  That was another example of how this has been mismanaged. 

 

As I said, if Josh is not the franchise QB that we all hope he can be (without much evidence at this point), McBeane have sent this franchise back because they bet the house on him and stupidly did not make his job any easier by what they did around him.

[Peter]

2 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

If, if if.

Hindsight always turns out pretty good don't you think? And what about all those other teams that didn't snap up Mahomes? Are they ranting like you goofs? It is what it is. Every team and every fan can play the what if card. Doesn't change a dang thing. Get over it. What if another team took Jim Kelly and you got one of the dud qbs? It doesn't work to play the what if card. Nothing changes.

 

FWIW, I questioned picking Josh and all that we gave up to get him in real time.  In fact, I remember referring to that Billy Beane quote, in response to scouts saying that a particular guy looked like a hitter, where he said, yeah, but why can't the guy actually hit.

 

Now that we have Josh, I sure as you know what hope he succeeds, especially given that he seems like a good guy and has embraced Buffalo.  

 

Nevertheless, the same questions remain.  While he looks the part, there is little evidence (so far) that he is going to be a franchise QB.  Of course, McBeane have not done him any favors.

 

I will be rooting for Josh, but I see an uphill battle especially with what we have surrounded him.

 

As for Mahomes, there were plenty of people who questioned trading back when he was available. I know that the McCoach apologists want us all to treat Mahomes like Lord Voldemort (he who shall not be named), but, whether you like it or not, it was a critically important decision that McCoach made.  There is not a team in this league (at least not one that does not have a franchise QB) that would make the trade that the Bills made at this point and, yes, hindsight has confirmed that it was a poor decision.

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Peter

[thebandit27]

51 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

No, I read the part about Mahomes.  That was another example of how this has been mismanaged. 

 

As I said, if Josh is not the franchise QB that we all hope he can be (without much evidence at this point), McBeane have sent this franchise back because they bet the house on him and stupidly did not make his job any easier by what they did around him.

 

I can't agree that the team is set back in any way if Allen doesn't work out 

 

You aren't going anywhere without a QB anyway, so the only impact is that you'd be drafting later by winning 7-9 games instead of 4-6.

 

If Allen isn't the guy, then the next regime gets to take their shot at a QB in 2020.

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I can't agree that the team is set back in any way if Allen doesn't work out 

 

You aren't going anywhere without a QB anyway, so the only impact is that you'd be drafting later by winning 7-9 games instead of 4-6.

 

If Allen isn't the guy, then the next regime gets to take their shot at a QB in 2020.

 

I read that you don't agree but you then acknowledge that, if Allen isn't the guy, the next regime will take their shot. In other words, the franchise has been set back a few years.

 

I am glad that we can finally agree. ?

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I read that you don't agree but you then acknowledge that, if Allen isn't the guy, the next regime will take their shot. In other words, the franchise has been set back a few years.

 

I am glad that we can finally agree. ?

 

We don't agree 

 

You claimed that if Allen isn't the guy then the is regime set the team back due to how much they gave up; it's not true

 

There's no such thing as a guarantee when picking QBs, so you need to be prepared to accept that you may not get it right.

 

If you want to call that "setting the team back", go for it. 

 

I call it taking your shot, because getting the QB decision right is literally the only way to put together a perennial contender. You can only get closer by getting it right at QB; you don't get further away by getting it wrong

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

We don't agree 

 

You claimed that if Allen isn't the guy then the is regime set the team back due to how much they gave up; it's not true

 

There's no such thing as a guarantee when picking QBs, so you need to be prepared to accept that you may not get it right.

 

If you want to call that "setting the team back", go for it. 

 

I call it taking your shot, because getting the QB decision right is literally the only way to put together a perennial contender. You can only get closer by getting it right at QB; you don't get further away by getting it wrong

Yeah I don't really get it either next draft they should be filling in the holes on offense. If after they've done that and Allen ends up not being the guy then they've basically got things set up for whomever they take a shot on next or the next FO group takes a shot on next as is often the case.