At least we are not wasting money on the Offensive Line. Bills are dead last in spending

[PlayoffsPlease]

As they say , you get what you pay.  The Bills oline is the worst in the league I suspect in part because it is the cheapest in the league. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/

 

On the flip side, the Bills spend more on RB's than any team in the league. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/running-back/

 

Those wide receivers, once again, the Bills are dead last in spending on WR's. 
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/wide-receiver/

The entire defense is right about average spending across the league.  They don't seem to be above average performers. 
The Dline is top 10 in cost. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/

 

I think the McBeane secret sauce is a plan to roll over the entire roster with the exception of about 5 guys in the next 2 years. 

[BuffaloBill]

Active roster analysis - with Woods and Incognito dead money in the mix the stats change.  The Bills are breaking the remnants of a cap mess.

[BuffalOhio]

If this season doesn't look like a tank job to you (or anyone in general), then those people are blind.  

[Mickey]

Sadly, many fans are enthusiastically committed to "low cost, short term solution" football. 

[Heavy Kevi]

They don't want to invest money into these junk players at OL and WR, so when they replace them we don't have another year where 30% of the cap is dead.

 

Next year we can replace any of them, by any means neccesary, without having to deal with cap ramifications of bad players tying up money.

 

Last year they took care the secondary, this year MLB, interior DL, and QB, next year it's OL and skill players

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Shotgunner said:

They don't want to invest money into these junk players at OL and WR, so when they replace them we don't have another year where 30% of the cap is dead.

 

Next year we can replace any of them, by any means neccesary, without having to deal with cap ramifications of bad players tying up money.

 

Last year they took care the secondary, this year MLB, interior DL, and QB, next year it's OL and skill players

The defensive spend is a lot more depressing. It is one of the 2 or three worst defenses in the league, and its not cheap.  

[Pete]

you get what you pay for.  If you are a miser when it comes to oline, you get garbage

[Heavy Kevi]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The defensive spend is a lot more depressing. It is one of the 2 or three worst defenses in the league, and its not cheap.  

 

Jerry, Star, and Trent Murphy have big contracts for sure.

 

Kyle will drop it 5.5 when he retires. If we get some depth on D (and another corner), the defense will be ok. Offense is what needs the lion's share of the 40 gazillion dollars available next year within our cap.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, Shotgunner said:

 

Jerry, Star, and Trent Murphy have big contracts for sure.

 

Kyle will drop it 5.5 when he retires. If we get some depth on D (and another corner), the defense will be ok. Offense is what needs the lion's share of the 40 gazillion dollars available next year within our cap.

The concern is the same guy that gave the money to star and trent, will be spending the money to replace Kyle.   

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We are the only team in the league where the QBs have a combined total of 1 complete game and we are still taking the cheap way out every where else.  The Bills haven’t had to pay a QB in decades, yet we look like a team of scabs during a strike. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

We are the only team in the league where the QBs have a combined total of 1 complete game and we are still taking the cheap way out every where else.  The Bills haven’t had to pay a QB in decades, yet we look like a team of scabs during a strike. 

 

You are seeing the glass as half empty.  Or totally empty and smashed on the floor.  I am not sure which. ?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

 

You are seeing the glass as half empty.  Or totally empty and smashed on the floor.  I am not sure which. ?

I just choose to be realistic. If you watch this defense, it’s hard to have faith in this coach. If you see some of the personnel decisions, it’s hard to imagine this GM can rebuild this team the right way. I’m not saying it can’t happen I just am very confused about what the thought process is on almost every decision made. Just something as dumb as the Kurley thing last week will make you doubt these guys. The numbers game at DT was created by them waiving Washington earlier in the week. The last thing we needed less of, was a WR.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I just choose to be realistic. If you watch this defense, it’s hard to have faith in this coach. If you see some of the personnel decisions, it’s hard to imagine this GM can rebuild this team the right way. I’m not saying it can’t happen I just am very confused about what the thought process is on almost every decision made. Just something as dumb as the Kurley thing last week will make you doubt these guys. The numbers game at DT was created by them waiving Washington earlier in the week. The last thing we needed less of, was a WR.

If they are as right on Allen as I think they are, the rest won't matter. Even if McBeane can't figure out the rest, GMs and coaches are not that tough to replace.  QB is the holy grail.  
 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

11 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

If they are as right on Allen as I think they are, the rest won't matter. Even if McBeane can't figure out the rest, GMs and coaches are not that tough to replace.  QB is the holy grail.  
 

I just simply don’t subscribe to that. First off, if we can’t block and never have any WRs to throw to, Allen will never be good. If we are getting run over every time we are on defense, we won’t beat anyone. I just don’t agree with the thought that football is a 1 on 1 between QBs. Our defense is why we lost last week and nothing Allen did was going to matter. The ravens game tone was also set by our defense but Peterman was lost. There is just way to much that goes into a football game and 20 teams have pretty good QBs. You aren’t going to beat most teams just because Allen might be good. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I just simply don’t subscribe to that. First off, if we can’t block and never have any WRs to throw to, Allen will never be good. If we are getting run over every time we are on defense, we won’t beat anyone. I just don’t agree with the thought that football is a 1 on 1 between QBs. Our defense is why we lost last week and nothing Allen did was going to matter. The ravens game tone was also set by our defense but Peterman was lost. There is just way to much that goes into a football game and 20 teams have pretty good QBs. You aren’t going to beat most teams just because Allen might be good. 

Which excellent NFL qbs in the 21st century have not seen success? 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

22 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Which excellent NFL qbs in the 21st century have not seen success? 

Rivers

Stafford

Luck

Carr

Cousins

Vick

Winston

 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

5 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The concern is the same guy that gave the money to star and trent, will be spending the money to replace Kyle.   

 

well then, you qualify as a worry-wart...

 

Kyle has already been replaced with HorribleHarry, with an one year apprenticeship as a bonus

 

99 is the guy I saw getting up from many tackles in the 2nd half

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

the "Beane sucks!" crowd needs to take a chill pill...

 

Vontae Davis sucked from day one here, and being inactive week 1 should have tipped everyone off to that fact

The John Ross TD in preseason was like an HS basketball player versus an old man at the Y

 

Whaley really sucked, and it has been proven out over time

 

Beane has unflinchingly jettisoned a ton of underachieving dead cap weight, and he is not done

(that means you, Shaq Lawson & Jerry Hughes)

Dareus was one of the top paid athletes IN SPORT, and is barely a role player for JAX

 

I still trust the process...

but moreso if it includes Bodine replacing Groy & an experienced backup like Landry Jones or Matt Moore in here to help the kid

Edited September 18, 2018 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[NewEra]

I really hope we can pay 1 Tackle, 1 center and 1 guard good money.  Keep Dawkins and draft another guard in rd 1 or 2 after trading down and also drafting 2 WRs and a Corner in the first 3 rounds.  

 

The free agent WR options are pretty sad. Nothing but number 2s and 3s.

 

are there any WRs that looks like potential top 10 picks?  Aj brown the undisputed best in this class or are buffalo Buffalo bull Anthony johnson  and n’keal Harry in the running?  Marquise Brown has some wheels 

[Aussie Joe]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I really hope we can pay 1 Tackle, 1 center and 1 guard good money.  Keep Dawkins and draft another guard in rd 1 or 2 after trading down and also drafting 2 WRs and a Corner in the first 3 rounds.  

 

 

Like, but also need a DE from somewhere...

 

Edit- And a LB

Edited September 18, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Like, but also need a DE from somewhere...

 

Edit- And a LB

SLB doesn’t get much time. I’d rather get ourselves 2 corners to play opposite Tre and then the nickel.  I think Edmunds and Milano will be fine as our nickel LBs.  Sure, adding another LB is needed.  

 

Would be nice to get a dominant pass rusher.  If we land the first pick is it Ben a question that we take Oliver....or do we trade down and get a ransom. Oliver would be an amazing fit for this d but I’d rather trade down and fill as many holes as possible.  There are so many holes

[plenzmd1]

Pretty simple equation...$55M in dead cap necessitates paying your "active" players less...just simple math.

 

Can't remember the actual number, but in terms of money being spent on active players..Bills are something like $26M less than any other team in the league. My guess would be they average something like $35M less than the league of most teams carry $15M in dead cap.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Rivers

Stafford

Luck

Carr

Cousins

Vick

Winston

 

 

That list is ridiculous. 

[bmur66]

You pay for what you get

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, Shotgunner said:

They don't want to invest money into these junk players at OL and WR, so when they replace them we don't have another year where 30% of the cap is dead.

 

Next year we can replace any of them, by any means neccesary, without having to deal with cap ramifications of bad players tying up money.

 

Last year they took care the secondary, this year MLB, interior DL, and QB, next year it's OL and skill players

 

Can I interest you in purchasing a recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake?

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

If they are as right on Allen as I think they are, the rest won't matter. Even if McBeane can't figure out the rest, GMs and coaches are not that tough to replace.  QB is the holy grail.  
 

 

Are you serious?  Did you watch MNF last night?  A great QB without a decent team around him is no more successful than a journeyman QB, and McDermott/Beane have shown no ability to evaluate talent or "figure out" ANYTHING when it comes to building a team. 

 

Furthermore, the clock is already ticking on the evaluation of Allen.  The Bills have less than 5 years to determine if Allen is a keeper or not because they'll have to decide whether to pick up his option year or to re-sign him past his rookie contract.  A crappy OL, equally crappy WR corps, and a questionable OC calling plays will never allow Allen to be as good as he might be, which means that the evaluation of Allen may never be accurate.   It's possible that the Bills could give up on Allen and he goes on to flourish for another team as so many former Bills players have done or the Bills could try to make allowances for the bad personnel around Allen, and wind up signing a journeyman QB to a franchise QB contract that dooms the team to continued mediocrity or worse.  That's why it's so important to give QBs with good protection and numerous good targets.

 

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Pretty simple equation...$55M in dead cap necessitates paying your "active" players less...just simple math.

 

Can't remember the actual number, but in terms of money being spent on active players..Bills are something like $26M less than any other team in the league. My guess would be they average something like $35M less than the league of most teams carry $15M in dead cap.

 

That $55 million in dead cap money mostly came from McDermott/Beane's decisions to replace quality players for whatever specious reasons they came up with.  They got into cap hell because they didn't pay attention to the cap implicatons of their moves, and they signed trash because of their poor player evaluation.  It's called incompetence.

Edited September 18, 2018 by SoTier

[plenzmd1]

54 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Are you serious?  Did you watch MNF last night?  A great QB without a decent team around him is no more successful than a journeyman QB, and McDermott/Beane have shown no ability to evaluate talent or "figure out" ANYTHING when it comes to building a team. 

 

Furthermore, the clock is already ticking on the evaluation of Allen.  The Bills have less than 5 years to determine if Allen is a keeper or not because they'll have to decide whether to pick up his option year or to re-sign him past his rookie contract.  A crappy OL, equally crappy WR corps, and a questionable OC calling plays will never allow Allen to be as good as he might be, which means that the evaluation of Allen may never be accurate.   It's possible that the Bills could give up on Allen and he goes on to flourish for another team as so many former Bills players have done or the Bills could try to make allowances for the bad personnel around Allen, and wind up signing a journeyman QB to a franchise QB contract that dooms the team to continued mediocrity or worse.  That's why it's so important to give QBs with good protection and numerous good targets.

 

 

That $55 million in dead cap money mostly came from McDermott/Beane's decisions to replace quality players for whatever specious reasons they came up with.  They got into cap hell because they didn't pay attention to the cap implicatons of their moves, and they signed trash because of their poor player evaluation.  It's called incompetence.

100% agree it has been their decision to eat all this dead money...in terms of the evaluations, i will give thru the end of 2019 to decide that. They 100% knew the implications of their moves, just winning last year I think gave them the idea one could win with inferior talent..and you can, just not consistently.

 

So listen, last year was a blast going to the playoffs in a year we all thought would be like this one. But the ball bounced correctly for us and they decided to middle it keeping Tyrod. In the end, that 9-7 instead 5-11 season cost us Darnold...hope it does not doom us for the next 12 years.

 

Let's see where we are at the end of the 3-year rebuilding plan..which this always was.

[apuszczalowski]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Active roster analysis - with Woods and Incognito dead money in the mix the stats change.  The Bills are breaking the remnants of a cap mess.

A self inflicted cap mess.....

12 hours ago, Shotgunner said:

They don't want to invest money into these junk players at OL and WR, so when they replace them we don't have another year where 30% of the cap is dead.

 

Next year we can replace any of them, by any means neccesary, without having to deal with cap ramifications of bad players tying up money.

 

Last year they took care the secondary, this year MLB, interior DL, and QB, next year it's OL and skill players

You assume/hope. 

I would really say they "took care of" those other positions just yet. They are good at starting Safety but still need CBs. They have a young MLB who is looking overwhelmed and not great out there, and a DL that's old and looking ok (at best). They have a QB who hasnt proven anything just yet and while he has flashed some ability, he still hasnt shown he can be a franchise guy, and they have no backup

 

You can assume/hope next offseason is when they focus on those other spots bit these guys in charge have not shown any indications of this. 

 

Also, they may have alot of cap space next offseason, but isnt FA where teams get into cap trouble by overpaying for talent? Ate they just freeing up cap space to overpay for others to put them back into have cap issues?

[dollars 2 donuts]

12 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

We are the only team in the league where the QBs have a combined total of 1 complete game and we are still taking the cheap way out every where else.  The Bills haven’t had to pay a QB in decades, yet we look like a team of scabs during a strike. 

 

 

We aren't even the lowest...weird.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/quarterback/

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

I really hope we can pay 1 Tackle, 1 center and 1 guard good money.  Keep Dawkins and draft another guard in rd 1 or 2 after trading down and also drafting 2 WRs and a Corner in the first 3 rounds.  

 

The free agent WR options are pretty sad. Nothing but number 2s and 3s.

 

are there any WRs that looks like potential top 10 picks?  Aj brown the undisputed best in this class or are buffalo Buffalo bull Anthony johnson  and n’keal Harry in the running?  Marquise Brown has some wheels 

If even a WR1 hit the market, we are not paying for him. My guess is see how Zay develops and if any of these other WRs can be 2/3/4 and we will plug that gap in FA if necessary. Look for WR1 to come from the draft. I would be shocked to see us take a WR1 with out #1 or #2 pick in the draft, it will be a pass rusher and then we will look at WR/OL/TE/LB/CB, possibly making moves like last year for Edmunds....

[1st&ten]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

you get what you pay for.  If you are a miser when it comes to oline, you get garbage

 

I hoping they can coach a couple of the young lineman up & work them in soon-----probably wishful thinking on my part.

[buffaloboyinATL]

I believe we will draft 2-3 offensive lineman next year, with 2 of them coming in the first 3 rounds.  

[Heavy Kevi]

50 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

A self inflicted cap mess.....

You assume/hope. 

I would really say they "took care of" those other positions just yet. They are good at starting Safety but still need CBs. They have a young MLB who is looking overwhelmed and not great out there, and a DL that's old and looking ok (at best). They have a QB who hasnt proven anything just yet and while he has flashed some ability, he still hasnt shown he can be a franchise guy, and they have no backup

 

You can assume/hope next offseason is when they focus on those other spots bit these guys in charge have not shown any indications of this. 

 

Also, they may have alot of cap space next offseason, but isnt FA where teams get into cap trouble by overpaying for talent? Ate they just freeing up cap space to overpay for others to put them back into have cap issues?

 

As far as "take care of", I mean infuse talent and get starters. No position is 'done', but like I said fill in with some depth and a decent corner, etc but there isn't a dearth of talent.

 

MLB and QB, yeah they "took care" of them. The players might not work out, but even if they don't develop you don't replace them next year, or maybe even the year after. It's not about how good they are right now, it's the GM finding young players.

 

My thought on next years cap is this, they will pay a guy or 2 in FA, and probably trade for a know quantity with a sizable contract, and extend any players they feel the need to, and front-load the contracts to tie up money next year but lower in subsequent years. Then I expect us to be near the cap floor for next year, leaving us with some flexibility (and rollover cap) into 2020. That's my thiughts on what should (and reasonably likely could) happen.

 

I don't expect them to go out and hand out Charles Clay and Derrick Dockery money. At least I hope not.

[plenzmd1]

19 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

As far as "take care of", I mean infuse talent and get starters. No position is 'done', but like I said fill in with some depth and a decent corner, etc but there isn't a dearth of talent.

 

MLB and QB, yeah they "took care" of them. The players might not work out, but even if they don't develop you don't replace them next year, or maybe even the year after. It's not about how good they are right now, it's the GM finding young players.

 

My thought on next years cap is this, they will pay a guy or 2 in FA, and probably trade for a know quantity with a sizable contract, and extend any players they feel the need to, and front-load the contracts to tie up money next year but lower in subsequent years. Then I expect us to be near the cap floor for next year, leaving us with some flexibility (and rollover cap) into 2020. That's my thiughts on what should (and reasonably likely could) happen.

 

I don't expect them to go out and hand out Charles Clay and Derrick Dockery money. At least I hope not.

I agree with a bunch of this..but if I am correct on McBeane that money will be spent on FA lineman..niot skill position guys. I think Beane believes you win by gaining an advantage by drafting WR, QB and CB and paying them rookie contracts...those positions have the greatest disparity between rookie contracts and 2nd level contracts for star players that make impacts. 

 

I fully expect we will pick up Tre Whites 5th year option, maybe tag him..but never give him a 2nd contract ...again assuming these guys are still running the show

[Heavy Kevi]

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I agree with a bunch of this..but if I am correct on McBeane that money will be spent on FA lineman..niot skill position guys. I think Beane believes you win by gaining an advantage by drafting WR, QB and CB and paying them rookie contracts...those positions have the greatest disparity between rookie contracts and 2nd level contracts for star players that make impacts. 

 

I fully expect we will pick up Tre Whites 5th year option, maybe tag him..but never give him a 2nd contract ...again assuming these guys are still running the show

 

I can agree with that. I don't love signing OL rather than drafting, though. Hard to get a high-end line without using the draft imo.

 

As for Tre, we don't know yet how they value their own players when up for contract. They shed big contracts of previous regimes, but I am curious how they will handle marquee guys that they drafted when it comes time for a 2nd contract. Tre might be the kind of guy to keep, idk.

[PlayoffsPlease]

12 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Are you serious?  Did you watch MNF last night?  A great QB without a decent team around him is no more successful than a journeyman QB, and McDermott/Beane have shown no ability to evaluate talent or "figure out" ANYTHING when it comes to building a team. 

 

Furthermore, the clock is already ticking on the evaluation of Allen.  The Bills have less than 5 years to determine if Allen is a keeper or not because they'll have to decide whether to pick up his option year or to re-sign him past his rookie contract.  A crappy OL, equally crappy WR corps, and a questionable OC calling plays will never allow Allen to be as good as he might be, which means that the evaluation of Allen may never be accurate.   It's possible that the Bills could give up on Allen and he goes on to flourish for another team as so many former Bills players have done or the Bills could try to make allowances for the bad personnel around Allen, and wind up signing a journeyman QB to a franchise QB contract that dooms the team to continued mediocrity or worse.  That's why it's so important to give QBs with good protection and numerous good targets.

 

 

That $55 million in dead cap money mostly came from McDermott/Beane's decisions to replace quality players for whatever specious reasons they came up with.  They got into cap hell because they didn't pay attention to the cap implicatons of their moves, and they signed trash because of their poor player evaluation.  It's called incompetence.

Are you referring to the team that won the super bowl, while their QB was on a rookie contract? 

[Epstein's Mother]

12 hours ago, SoTier said:

That $55 million in dead cap money mostly came from McDermott/Beane's decisions to replace quality players for whatever specious reasons they came up with.  They got into cap hell because they didn't pay attention to the cap implicatons of their moves, and they signed trash because of their poor player evaluation.  It's called incompetence.

 

The other choice in this situation is to simply fill in players at positions of need year after year without unloading bloated contracts until the end of time.  This is a great way to go somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 every year like the Bills did for the most part between 2000 and 2016.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Epstein's Mother

[LSHMEAB]

The defense has been far more disappointing than the offense and much more of an indictment on McBeane.

 

They gave out a couple of relatively big deals to Trent Murphy and Star. I think when the optimistic crowd preaches patience, they fail to recognize that we're analyzing the moves Beane HAS made. They...uh, don't look like money well spent.

[Turk71]

22 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The defensive spend is a lot more depressing. It is one of the 2 or three worst defenses in the league, and its not cheap.  

Jonathan Hankins has been far superior to Star at stopping the run and pressuring QB the last couple years. He was fa until last week and signed for less than a million. Star was practically dead last out of 110 dts on pff and gets 10 million a year for 5 years because he was a Panther. That 9 million in savings could have been spent on the o line, not to mention the cap money wasted on Coleman, Davis, Mccarron etc.

Now you put your rookie top ten pick behind this crap line with no wrs. What kind of fukin process is that?

[Bing Bong]

Is that good?