A couple of frustrating plays yesterday IMO

[zow2]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont think he is ever going to be a Tom Brady type accurate passer......

 

That does not mean that he couldnt end up being a great player....because he has so many physical skills

 

True, True.  Let's hope he brings together his entire package of leadership, arm, etc.. to be the guy we need.

 

But if you're a QB with a 58% completion, along with a slightly below 1:1 TD to Interception ratio, along with some running ability...your name is Geno Smith.  

[John from Riverside]

Just now, joesixpack said:

Incoming Watkins fanboys.

 

But he wasn't. Eric Moulds, on the other hand, was.

 

I think Sammy had elite talent

 

We didnt really get to see it due to a number of reasons

[Bing Bong]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Incoming Watkins fanboys.

 

But he wasn't. Eric Moulds, on the other hand, was.

 

JOE! Quit it I was thinking of Moulds. Stop doing that!

Edited September 17, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[John from Riverside]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

True, True.  Let's hope he brings together his entire package of leadership, arm, etc.. to be the guy we need.

 

But if you're a QB with a 58% completion, along with a slightly below 1:1 TD to Interception ratio, along with some running ability...your name is Geno Smith.  

Right now I think he is at 60 percent over 2 games.....

 

I think that will improve as the season progresses

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I think Sammy had elite talent

 

We didnt really get to see it due to a number of reasons

 

Talent wasn't what he was asking about. Performance was.

 

Moulds had it, Watkins not so much.

 

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

JOE! Quit it I was thinking of Moulds. Stop doing that!

 

You're learning, padawan.

 

[Juice_32]

7 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I liked it. Looks like the throw Antonio Brown comes up with on a circus catch. Big Ben can make those throws because he has one of the best WRs ever. 

 

I really really want to get a top 10 receiver somehow. When's the last time we had eliteness at that position?

 

Moulds, Sammy was close.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Doesn't help that Allen wasn't regularly practicing with most of these guys until recently...

 

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

That's ALSO a legitimate beef.

 

I've wanted Allen to start and practice with the ones since the draft.

 

 

Here we go with the excuses, ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

 

Here we go with the excuses, ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't try me, goonyay.

 

DON'T DO IT

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The Josh Allen pass to Clay to start the 2nd half........that SHOULD have been a touchdown but Clay waiting for the ball to get to him instead of fighting for it and let Darwin knock it away....if he catches that ball he might still be running

 

A drop from RB Murphy on a crossing route.....that had the look of a HUGE play if he does not drop that ball

 

I am seeing a lot of ppl getting on Josh Allen's bad throws from yesterday (of which he did) but pass targets HAVE to make plays on balls that are close to them

 

I think both those plays had potential to be touchdowns

Couldn't agree more John. The Clay route should've been a skinny post. Not a flat seam. The throw to Holmes was catchable.  Every NFL caliber wr has a catch radius of 36 inches. Just because its 12 inches behind him doesn't mean he shouldn't make that play. Murphy just flat out dropped  perfect pass.

These wrs are soft and unmotivated 

Several need to be replaced 

Most of our OL ducks

McB you want to help Josh, take a break from the defense and start focusing on OL/WR.....

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Right now I think he is at 60 percent over 2 games.....

 

I think that will improve as the season progresses

 

50%...

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3

 

 

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 You're learning, padawan.

I'm not learning from you! You want me to be your poster boy for the Whaley regime defender, keep it up. Damn. Find somebody pining for Watkins. There's other people at TBD man

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'm not learning from you! You want me to be your poster boy for the Whaley regime defender, keep it up. Damn. Find somebody pining for Watkins. There's other people at TBD man

 

You know better than that.

 

I don't want to purge you too. You're at least mildly entertaining!

 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

50%...

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3

 

 

Sorry I was looking at QB rating

[PeterDude]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

His accuracy might not improve dramatically......

 

But we have seen in just a small bit of time that his footwork can improve dramatically....which affects mechanics....he looks much better then he did at Wyoming.

 

The quality of his pass catcher's can also improve....thus improving the completion percentage.

 

Yeah, I get the difference between completion percentage & accuracy.

 

Ball placement is the issue.  That is talent driven.  I don't see that dramatically improving.

 

Great QB's have very good to great ball placement.  Good ball placement requires consistent accuracy, something Allen has lacked all of his career as a QB so far.  I don't understand why people think this will get better, magically.  It won't.

[zow2]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

50%...

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	2	1	0-1-0	24	48	50.0	319	1	2.1	2	4.2	57	6.6	5.2	13.3	159.5	61.0		8	52	4.77	3.52	14.3

 

 

 

yeah the Baltimore mop up duty pulled him down.  But like i said, with experience and better players around him,  he will be better.   But % is a good indicator .  

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, PeterDude said:

 

Yeah, I get the difference between completion percentage & accuracy.

 

Ball placement is the issue.  That is talent driven.  I don't see that dramatically improving.

 

Great QB's have very good to great ball placement.  Good ball placement requires consistent accuracy, something Allen has lacked all of his career as a QB so far.  I don't understand why people think this will get better, magically.  It won't.

Honestly do not think his ball placement is that bad...not for a rookie QB

 

Keep in mind that he is not one of those dink and dunk QBs......Josh Allen goes for the home run plays

[nickrage]

17 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I liked it. Looks like the throw Antonio Brown comes up with on a circus catch. Big Ben can make those throws because he has one of the best WRs ever. 

 

I really really want to get a top 10 receiver somehow. When's the last time we had eliteness at that position?

the last elite wr we had was TO. Albeit past his prime. Other than that its Moulds.

Kinda sad when you think about...2014 was a huge swing anda miss.

[Bing Bong]

Just now, nickrage said:

the last elite wr we had was TO. Albeit past his prime. Other than that its Moulds.

Kinda sad when you think about...2014 was a huge swing anda miss.

I think they make a major impact on games when they make plays on offense and swing the momentum. We ignore it and get by with Stevie Johnson.

[nickrage]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I think they make a major impact on games when they make plays on offense and swing the momentum. We ignore it and get by with Stevie Johnson.

agreed. Plus look at what Fitz is now doing with elite talent around him.

2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I think they make a major impact on games when they make plays on offense and swing the momentum. We ignore it and get by with Stevie Johnson.

also... they didnt ignore it in 2014. They swung hard and struck out.

[MDH]

So basically what we’ve got on the board is one segment of fans who hated the Allen pick who can’t wait to call him a “bust”  and another segment who wants to blame everyone but Allen for anything that happens on the field.

 

This is the TT era all over again. 

 

I hope to hell Allen pans out if for no other reason that these binary readings of the Bills’ QB situation will be gone for the foreseeable future.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, MDH said:

So basically what we’ve got on the board is one segment of fans who hated the Allen pick who can’t wait to call him a “bust”  and another segment who wants to blame everyone but Allen for anything that happens on the field.

 

This is the TT era all over again. 

 

I hope to hell Allen pans out if for no other reason that these binary readings of the Bills’ QB situation will be gone for the foreseeable future.

 

 

That is just flat wrong, bud. Pretty much every poster that has been supportive of Allen's day yesterday openly acknowledged he missed a bunch of opportunities and looked like a rookie. 

[msw2112]

From all of the scouting reports on Allen, we know that accuracy has been a problem for him in the past.  It will get better with experience, coaching and hard work/practice, but will probably never be his greatest strength.  He's also rookie playing in his first couple of games and he is trying to process a whole lot of information that he has not had to in the past, so I wouldn't make too many judgments on what we have seen in the last 2 weeks.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

You could also be right on this.....

 

It just seems to me that the good TE's in the league find a way to make that catch

I just watched it again. I think it was a great throw and the defender just dove and made a great play to defend it. Clay is a TE but he's not superfast or adept at running deep routes. I don't really think he short-armed it. I think he expects it to get to him on the dead run and the DB just knocked it away at the last second. It was a helluva pass.

 

The announcer said he should have lofted and not gunned it. I don't think that is right. The DB has more speed than Clay. Others said he shouldn't have thrown it at all. But he looked around, stepped up in the pocket, waited, and right before the pocket collapsed he saw Clay and threw a dart 20-30 yards downfield right on the money. That was a great pass, IMO. And very accurate for the accuracy haters. 

[MDH]

15 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That is just flat wrong, bud. Pretty much every poster that has been supportive of Allen's day yesterday openly acknowledged he missed a bunch of opportunities and looked like a rookie. 

 

A product of being a rookie his his slow decision making. He looks unsure about what he’s seeing and hesitates before throwing the ball. That’s a product of a game moving much too fast for a young QB and him not having total command of a system. That’s to be expected and not a big deal.

 

Him making bad decisions with the ball - that’s also a product of being a rookie. Again, excusable at this point is his career.

 

The excuses for him consistently having bad ball placement is a bit much and has little to do with him being a rookie and more to do with him having horrible footwork. Posters blame the OL, the WR...anybody but Allen for this when it’s mostly to do with his mechanics. Sure there are other factors, it’s a team game after all, but Allen has an accuracy issue that many Bills’ fans don’t want to acknowledge. Pre-draft they saw it. Once he was a Bill those fans convinced themselves otherwise.

 

I said it to you in pre-season, those mechanics couldn’t be fixed in a single off-season. It will take way more time than that and facing live bullets isn’t the time to work on it. He’s just going to re-enforce his bad habits playing in live games behind a sub par OL.

 

I wish this regime would have brought in a legit vet to man the QB spot for at least a year and helped the young QB in the film room.

 

Allen could be a superstar if handled right but nothing I’ve seen from his staff leads me to believe that’s being done.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, MDH said:

 

A product of being a rookie his his slow decision making. He looks unsure about what he’s seeing and hesitates before throwing the ball. That’s a product of a game moving much too fast for a young QB and him not having total command of a system. That’s to be expected and not a big deal.

 

Him making bad decisions with the ball - that’s also a product of being a rookie. Again, excusable at this point is his career.

 

The excuses for him consistently having bad ball placement is a bit much and has little to do with him being a rookie and more to do with him having horrible footwork. Posters blame the OL, the WR...anybody but Allen for this when it’s mostly to do with his mechanics. Sure there are other factors, it’s a team game after all, but Allen has an accuracy issue that many Bills’ fans don’t want to acknowledge. Pre-draft they saw it. Once he was a Bill those fans convinced themselves otherwise.

 

I said it to you in pre-season, those mechanics couldn’t be fixed in a single off-season. It will take way more time than that and facing live bullets isn’t the time to work on it. He’s just going to re-enforce his bad habits playing in live games behind a sub par OL.

 

I wish this regime would have brought in a legit vet to man the QB spot for at least a year and helped the young QB in the film room.

 

Allen could be a superstar if handled right but nothing I’ve seen from his staff leads me to believe that’s being done.

 

 

I agree with most all of that. I just didn't see many if any posters blaming everyone else but him. I saw them ALL blaming everyone else including him.

[SoCal Deek]

Why is this so complicated? The scouting on Allen was that his accuracy left a lot to be desired and that is EXACTLY what we saw yesterday. Most times in life, the obvious answer is the correct one.

[John from Riverside]

26 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I just watched it again. I think it was a great throw and the defender just dove and made a great play to defend it. Clay is a TE but he's not superfast or adept at running deep routes. I don't really think he short-armed it. I think he expects it to get to him on the dead run and the DB just knocked it away at the last second. It was a helluva pass.

 

The announcer said he should have lofted and not gunned it. I don't think that is right. The DB has more speed than Clay. Others said he shouldn't have thrown it at all. But he looked around, stepped up in the pocket, waited, and right before the pocket collapsed he saw Clay and threw a dart 20-30 yards downfield right on the money. That was a great pass, IMO. And very accurate for the accuracy haters. 

Regardless I would love to see Josh continue to attempt that throw in the future......its not gonna get knocked away often by a DB and will probably be a touchdown

 

I just get this feeling that Josh is gonna have this break out game at some point this season and then its gonna be on

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

What’s frustrating is our Oline is terrible but yet they’re having Josh Allen take 5 step drops and reading the defense.

 

Id be calling quic hitters, pivot and throw. Substitute the run game with short passing game. 1-5 yd hitches, quick outs, slants, short crossing routes, WR screens, TE screen, RB motion quick outs/hitches, swing passes..... that would be 70% of the plays id call.

 

i just felt a lot of the play calling was 5 step drops requiring Josh to read the defense and asking the Oline hold a pocket for 4-5 seconds. Vs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

Allen had a lot of time on many plays. He held the ball a long time. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Allen had a lot of time on many plays. He held the ball a long time. 

I also think Josh had more time in this game......there were also some situations where Josh did not recognize the free blitzer which IS on the QB.......but that is also a rookie thing...he will get better at that as time goes on.

 

The more concerning thing to me is how the OL isnt blocking for the run.

[MTBill]

Until Allen is able to burn defenses for going all out on him, this is going to continue.  Daboll has to help him by giving him quick stuff - or screens.  I did not have access to the game at all yesterday...  did we do many screens?

 

I think getting them to stop stuffing the box is going to help the o-line look better, help the running game, and thus help the team.  But they have to just have some programmed - quick hits that burn a blitz heavy team before they'll remove some of the pressure.

 

I agree that the velocity/accuracy is an issue.  I saw a few replays and that ball he zipped in to Zay was flying in there and Zay almost turned that over with a bobble, plus he had to slow up since it was thrown a bit short.  Experience/reps is going to help, at game speed etc.

 

In short, experience and small successes are going to help a lot.  And that goes across the offense, not just Allen, but our O-Line has 2 players who are consistent from last year - Dawkins and Mills....  everyone else is new/adjusting.

[The Wiz]

Just now, MTBill said:

Until Allen is able to burn defenses for going all out on him, this is going to continue.  Daboll has to help him by giving him quick stuff - or screens.  I did not have access to the game at all yesterday...  did we do many screens?

 

I'm just going off the "all of allens pass attempts" video and mind you these are not necessarily screens but players that are set up underneath the zone as an outlet.  This is what I saw when looking at those underneath players (highlighted are the underneath receiver):

1 covered (threw to different receiver, completed)
2 defender close (2-3 yards away, threw to different receiver)
3  passed to ivory  (broken up)
4 ivory open (threw pick intended to croom)
5 (passed to but incomplete, broken up)
6 open - completed elsewhere
7 - open and completed
8 - open dropped 
9 - ivory completed and big run

 

There may have been more but I think he did a good job of completing the ball elsewhere instead of throwing to his outlets other than the pick.

 

The part that I think is odd is that they only ran 1 of these plays in the first half and it was probably with about 3-4 minutes left in the 2nd qtr.  
 

Edited September 17, 2018 by The Wiz

[DuckyBoys]

3 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

What’s frustrating is our Oline is terrible but yet they’re having Josh Allen take 5 step drops and reading the defense.

 

Id be calling quic hitters, pivot and throw. Substitute the run game with short passing game. 1-5 yd hitches, quick outs, slants, short crossing routes, WR screens, TE screen, RB motion quick outs/hitches, swing passes..... that would be 70% of the plays id call.

 

i just felt a lot of the play calling was 5 step drops requiring Josh to read the defense and asking the Oline hold a pocket for 4-5 seconds. Vs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

think the wrs lack the explosion to get open  I too would like to see mindless rhythm throw to get him comfortable  Quick outs/slants jerk route from rbs  Seems they need longer developing patterns to create any room

[reddogblitz]

the most disturbing play I saw yesterday was in the first half I think when Allen had Murph about 6 yards away and air mailed it over his head.  that gave me cold chills and flashbacks of JP Losman.

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Because a huge segment of TSW wears rose colored glasses (always has and always will) about so many elements of this team.   Rationalization is the Wall's raison d'etre.

 

 

 

Another huge segment of TSW wears dung colored glasses (always has and always will) about so many elements of this team.

Bitching is the true Wall's raison d'etre.

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

What’s frustrating is our Oline is terrible but yet they’re having Josh Allen take 5 step drops and reading the defense.

 

Id be calling quic hitters, pivot and throw. Substitute the run game with short passing game. 1-5 yd hitches, quick outs, slants, short crossing routes, WR screens, TE screen, RB motion quick outs/hitches, swing passes..... that would be 70% of the plays id call.

 

i just felt a lot of the play calling was 5 step drops requiring Josh to read the defense and asking the Oline hold a pocket for 4-5 seconds. Vs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

I agree...The OC is not putting ALlen in a place to succeed...We don't Allen to run this offense...it must be Shady!

7 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

the most disturbing play I saw yesterday was in the first half I think when Allen had Murph about 6 yards away and air mailed it over his head.  that gave me cold chills and flashbacks of JP Losman.

Not EJ ?

[reddogblitz]

15 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Not EJ?

 

I remember it more from JP. Maybe that's just because he played longer.  I like EJ. I wish he had worked out.