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John from Riverside

A couple of frustrating plays yesterday IMO

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The Josh Allen pass to Clay to start the 2nd half........that SHOULD have been a touchdown but Clay waiting for the ball to get to him instead of fighting for it and let Darwin knock it away....if he catches that ball he might still be running

 

A drop from RB Murphy on a crossing route.....that had the look of a HUGE play if he does not drop that ball

 

I am seeing a lot of ppl getting on Josh Allen's bad throws from yesterday (of which he did) but pass targets HAVE to make plays on balls that are close to them

 

I think both those plays had potential to be touchdowns

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Sometimes it looks like the ball is thrown too hard for them to catch. Inexcusable, yes, but just an observation. With what looks to be an early draft pick looming a true #1 stud playmaking WR has to be coming our way. So who might that be? If not, trade back stockpile and replenish the O line cupboard.

This team needs offensive firepower. But without an oline whats the point. 

Such a frustrating start to the season. 

 

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Allen's accuracy will improve over time, he made a lot of gimmes look like Houdini-catches

 

 

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1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Doesn't help that Allen wasn't regularly practicing with most of these guys until recently...


That's ALSO a legitimate beef.

 

I've wanted Allen to start and practice with the ones since the draft.

 

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14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The Josh Allen pass to Clay to start the 2nd half........that SHOULD have been a touchdown but Clay waiting for the ball to get to him instead of fighting for it and let Darwin knock it away....if he catches that ball he might still be running

 

A drop from RB Murphy on a crossing route.....that had the look of a HUGE play if he does not drop that ball

 

I am seeing a lot of ppl getting on Josh Allen's bad throws from yesterday (of which he did) but pass targets HAVE to make plays on balls that are close to them

 

I think both those plays had potential to be touchdowns

 

The Clay throw was the wrong throw, if your talking that Seam route, it should have been placed OVER Clay not on a rope allowing the CB to come under and make a play. But that will come to Allen I think when to use what types of throws.

Edited by MAJBobby

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20 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

The Clay throw was the wrong throw, if your talking that Seam route, it should have been placed OVER Clay not on a rope allowing the CB to come under and make a play. But that will come to Allen I think when to use what types of throws.

Sure...I think it will get better.

 

My point is Clay just like he OFTEN does will not fight for the ball in traffic.....we actually have a few of those starting for us....

 

You see players on other teams make one handed grabs.......make contested catches.....not allow balls to get stripped away from them on other teams

 

On our team?  Not so much

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4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Sure...I think it will get better.

 

My point is Clay just like he OFTEN does will not fight for the ball in traffic.....we actually have a few of those starting for us....

 

You see players on other teams make one handed grabs.......make contested catches.....not allow balls to get stripped away from them on other teams

 

On our team?  Not so much

Time for my little snarky that cant be true the McD DNA and Culture wouldnt allow it

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What’s frustrating is our Oline is terrible but yet they’re having Josh Allen take 5 step drops and reading the defense.

 

Id be calling quic hitters, pivot and throw. Substitute the run game with short passing game. 1-5 yd hitches, quick outs, slants, short crossing routes, WR screens, TE screen, RB motion quick outs/hitches, swing passes..... that would be 70% of the plays id call.

 

i just felt a lot of the play calling was 5 step drops requiring Josh to read the defense and asking the Oline hold a pocket for 4-5 seconds. Vs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

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45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The Josh Allen pass to Clay to start the 2nd half........that SHOULD have been a touchdown but Clay waiting for the ball to get to him instead of fighting for it and let Darwin knock it away....if he catches that ball he might still be running

 

A drop from RB Murphy on a crossing route.....that had the look of a HUGE play if he does not drop that ball

 

I am seeing a lot of ppl getting on Josh Allen's bad throws from yesterday (of which he did) but pass targets HAVE to make plays on balls that are close to them

 

I think both those plays had potential to be touchdowns

I thought the Clay play was a great throw and a great play made by the defender. I'm glad you brought that one up. Josh threw it on a rope right on the money way down the field, the defender just dove and knocked it away. I'm not sure you can fault Clay on that one but I may need to see it a few times again. That was a terrific pass, and when you hear of a lot of Josh is inaccurate posts and tweets and comments, people seem to forget about plays like that one.

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Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I thought the Clay play was a great throw and a great play made by the defender. I'm glad you brought that one up. Josh threw it on a rope right on the money way down the field, the defender just dove and knocked it away. I'm not sure you can fault Clay on that one but I may need to see it a few times again. That was a terrific pass, and when you hear of a lot of Josh is inaccurate posts and tweets and comments, people seem to forget about plays like that one.

I felt like Clay alligator armed it....I thought he could have extended his arms and plucked it out of the air.

 

If he does this....I think Darwin is the last defender to beat and it is a TD....JMO

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3 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

What’s frustrating is our Oline is terrible but yet they’re having Josh Allen take 5 step drops and reading the defense.

 

Id be calling quic hitters, pivot and throw. Substitute the run game with short passing game. 1-5 yd hitches, quick outs, slants, short crossing routes, WR screens, TE screen, RB motion quick outs/hitches, swing passes..... that would be 70% of the plays id call.

 

i just felt a lot of the play calling was 5 step drops requiring Josh to read the defense and asking the Oline hold a pocket for 4-5 seconds. Vs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

 

I will try that too. But if you notice, they are playing (LAC) where playing press all day, the Bills needed to go deeper and have some succes to have the CBs back up a little. 

 

The seam routs and middle range crossers is what we needes yesterday. 

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

I felt like Clay alligator armed it....I thought he could have extended his arms and plucked it out of the air.

 

If he does this....I think Darwin is the last defender to beat and it is a TD....JMO

You may be right. I will watch it again later. When it happened I thought that Clay just reached out because he thought it was going to get to him in full stride and didn't expect the guy behind him to reach out and get a hand on it. I will look again.

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Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

You may be right. I will watch it again later. When it happened I thought that Clay just reached out because he thought it was going to get to him in full stride and didn't expect the guy behind him to reach out and get a hand on it. I will look again.

You could also be right on this.....

 

It just seems to me that the good TE's in the league find a way to make that catch

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40 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Allen's accuracy will improve over time, he made a lot of gimmes look like Houdini-catches

 

 

 

Why do you assume this?  I hear people say this, and it doesn't make any sense.  If there is one thing that is proven about developing QB's is they typically don't become more accurate.  This take I keep hearing is more faith/hope based than factual.

Edited by PeterDude

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Just now, John from Riverside said:

You could also be right on this.....

 

It just seems to me that the good TE's in the league find a way to make that catch

Anyone on the Bills is just going to have to get used to the lasers that Josh throws. The fact that he is a rookie, and throws the exact opposite of Nate and AJ is one thing, plus he spent very little time with them in OTA/camp/preseason, and they have very likely never played with a guy like that, all matters. We want stuff to click so fast when JA is a unique animal. 

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39 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

The Clay throw was the wrong throw, if your talking that Seam route, it should have been placed OVER Clay not on a rope allowing the CB to come under and make a play. But that will come to Allen I think when to use what types of throws.

 

He seems to be most comfortable firing the ball as hard as he can. At some point he is going to have to work on his touch. There are just as many situations in a game where he will have to take a little off as there are situations where he needs to rifle it. I do believe it is a skill he can work on and in time add to his arsenal. But his natural propensity is always going to be the rocket-ball a la Favre.

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That Murphy crosser was a terrible Allen ball.

 

The Dimarco ball was also terrible.

Edited by BringBackOrton

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2 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

He seems to be most comfortable firing the ball as hard as he can. At some point he is going to have to work on his touch. There are just as many situations in a game where he will have to take a little off as there are situations where he needs to rifle it. I do believe it is a skill he can work on and in time add to his arsenal. But his natural propensity is always going to be the rocket-ball a la Favre.

 

Josh knows exactly what he needs to do.  He spoke of throwing the wrong ball on the pick intended for Croom.  Said he should have put air on it and let Croom run under it rather than try to throw a rope.  He'll learn; that's what these reps and games are for.

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3 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

He seems to be most comfortable firing the ball as hard as he can. At some point he is going to have to work on his touch. There are just as many situations in a game where he will have to take a little off as there are situations where he needs to rifle it. I do believe it is a skill he can work on and in time add to his arsenal. But his natural propensity is always going to be the rocket-ball a la Favre.

Yes and no. There were three very nice short throws over defenders to Shady that he took a lot off and hit him on the dead run. They looked easy but really are not all that easy and all were right on the money. IIRC, one was a first down or close to it, two were 6-7 yard plays.

 

The one rolling left when he had Murphy wide open he just blew, trying to take too much off because it was so open. On that he probably should have just throw it regular, like the Shady passes, and not lofted or gunned it. A lot of QBs will say passes to wide open guys aren't always so easy for just that reason.

 

He actually threw quite a few nice short passes yesterday. The three to Shady, a couple dump offs, a few 5 yard bullets.

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1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

(of which he did)

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

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6 minutes ago, PeterDude said:

 

Why do you assume this?  I hear people say this, and it doesn't make any sense.  If there is one thing that is proven about developing QB's is they typically don't become more accurate.  This take I keep hearing is more faith/hope based than factual.

 

Accuracy as "aim" is a genetic thing and probably doesn't improve much (if at all) over time.   Accuracy as "completion percentage" can improve a lot.  Lots of things go into completion percentage:  scheme, WR route running/separation, WR hands, QB ability to read defense and go throw progressions, biomechanics, etc.  

 

There are lots of QBs who improved their accuracy/completion percentage over the years.  Steve Deberg only completed 45% of his passes in his first season but later developed into a serviceable starter who was never that inaccurate again.  Closer to home, Joe  Ferguson only completed 44% of his passes his rookie season but never again produced a  season that bad.    

 

It's debatable whether Allen has bad aim on his errant passes or is just being a rookie. 

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

He throws like John Elway.....you know that HOF guy

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2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He actually threw quite a few nice short passes yesterday. The three to Shady, a couple dump offs, a few 5 yard bullets.

 

Those passes were how the play was designed/called.    The fastballs seemed to come when he had to improvise after the play had broken down.   

 

Yes, that's a byproduct of experience.    But it's going to be a painful learning curve given the lack of time he has to process what he's seeing...

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3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The operative phrase.   

 

Even on the two examples you cite, he needs to throw a more "catchable" ball.   Right now, he's like a pitcher who can only throw 90 mph fastballs.   Driving a 10-yard pass with the same velocity as a 25-yard out is not going to help the completion percentage.    

 

And now I'll sit bank and await all the indignant "...Those receivers are professionals!!  They get paid to catch the ball!!   No excuses!!!" commentary with my box of popcorn...

If you know your gonna receive ire for it (and justif so...:)  Then why say it....

 

The fact is if the ball is there to be caught then the receiver needs to catch it......by the way.....both of those examples I provided were catchable balls that the pass catcher simply didnt make the play on

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