Low expectations - 245 passing is something to build on....

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I was really against Gordon last week, my tune has changed after yesterday. 

I do think they’ll call, but I also think they won’t give up the 3rd rounder it’ll probably take to get him after the Coleman debacle.

Gordon is what 750k this year? Nobody is gonna come that cheap with that much talent. Only issue I see is we get roasted even more if we drop a 3rd rounder for him and he screws up fast and gets suspended forever. 

But they need his dynamic playmaking for sure 

McCarrons 5th that becomes a 3rd with a Probowl will get it done.

 

Then stays clean low tender him, if an offer comes decide if you want to roll the dice he will stay clean, if not take the 2nd round compensation and run.  You just upgraded that McCarron pick

[Big Turk]

Well i take solace in Peyton Mannings debut being a little underwhelming as well...

 

21 of 37 302 yards 1 TD and 3 INTs. 

 

Not saying Allen is even in the same category but just saying that even great ones struggle early on sometimes.

 

And at least he appears to already be better than JP Losman...took Losman until into his 2nd year as a starter(granted he only played 8 games the first year he started but still..) to throw for 245+ yards in a game and he only did it 4 or 5 times in his whole career.

 

I knows its an awfully low bar to clear but still...

Edited September 17, 2018 by matter2003

[RochesterRob]

  Got what I expected from Allen yesterday.  A rookie who has a lot of work to do but the work can be done.  Had he been allowed to sit for a while he probably would have looked more polished but it is what it is.  Some people want Manning, Montana, or Marino out of the gate and that just was not going to happen given Allen's state of development.

[Rc2catch]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

McCarrons 5th that becomes a 3rd with a Probowl will get it done.

 

Then stays clean low tender him, if an offer comes decide if you want to roll the dice he will stay clean, if not take the 2nd round compensation and run.  You just upgraded that McCarron pick

I fully agree.

Cleveland said they want to send him to the NFC and I guess he said he wants Dallas or San Fran. But hey they owe us for Tyrod ? And Coleman. Time to call in that favor 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Got what I expected from Allen yesterday.  A rookie who has a lot of work to do but the work can be done.  Had he been allowed to sit for a while he probably would have looked more polished but it is what it is.  Some people want Manning, Montana, or Marino out of the gate and that just was not going to happen given Allen's state of development.

 

Actually the numbers were not far off from what Manning gave out of the gate...

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I fully agree.

Cleveland said they want to send him to the NFC and I guess he said he wants Dallas or San Fran. But hey they owe us for Tyrod ? And Coleman. Time to call in that favor 

Of course they do because he is talented.  However we are not a threat to any of their playoff thinking.

 

And of course just offer a better package than the NFC teams. Obviously after two weeks are picks are looking very valuable.

[bobblehead]

I saw one wtf pass. The interception towards the end. Although the DB dove to get it, not sure it should have been thrown. As far as the horrible mechanics people are claiming, I’m not sure how much of that is image maintenance-which Allen is unfortunately going to have to fight more than any qb  I’ve ever seen.  He looks like the real deal who’s not getting any favors anywhere.  

 

Im worried he will be ruined but he doesn’t seem like the type that worries about that. 

 

Hes got more game than any an I’ve seen in buffalo in a long time and it’s a shame that a lot of people here refuse to see that 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

Allen was wildly inaccurate and was missing wide open receivers by not scanning the 2nd half of the field. That is what worries me the most.

 

I'll be giving this a few more weeks before I put my stamp on my expectation but IMO Allen did not look like an NFL QB. He looked like a Bills QB... But Allen's debut did not go well at all.

 

 

I could not disagree more (respectfully, of course).

 

I loved what I saw.  He made some good decisions and - yes - some very inaccurate throws.  I'll take the good decisions in a first NFL start.

 

I'll also wait until he has a complete year's worth of starts to judge him - which won't be until next season.  After start #1, I'm very happy and optimistic.

[Enemarty]

Just now, bobblehead said:

I saw one wtf pass. The interception towards the end. Although the DB dove to get it, not sure it should have been thrown. As far as the horrible mechanics people are claiming, I’m not sure how much of that is image maintenance-which Allen is unfortunately going to have to fight more than any qb  I’ve ever seen.  He looks like the real deal who’s not getting any favors anywhere.  

 

Im worried he will be ruined but he doesn’t seem like the type that worries about that. 

 

Hes got more game than any an I’ve seen in buffalo in a long time and it’s a shame that a lot of people here refuse to see that 

This for me.  Look, we all loved Fitz's aggressive nature, but were frustrated that he couldn't make all the throws.  Trent and Tyrod didn't even bother throwing downfield, making the offense difficult to watch.  We now have someone who has the self-confidence and ability to put pressure on the secondary.  Sure he's going to make some bad throws, they all do.  But at least it's exciting again.  Once he gets a few lineman in front of him, this could really be fun again. 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

I saw one wtf pass. The interception towards the end. Although the DB dove to get it, not sure it should have been thrown. As far as the horrible mechanics people are claiming, I’m not sure how much of that is image maintenance-which Allen is unfortunately going to have to fight more than any qb  I’ve ever seen.  He looks like the real deal who’s not getting any favors anywhere.  

 

Im worried he will be ruined but he doesn’t seem like the type that worries about that. 

 

Hes got more game than any an I’ve seen in buffalo in a long time and it’s a shame that a lot of people here refuse to see that 

 

Needs to work on his touch.  The 2nd pick had a really bad trajectory.

 

The back-shoulder stuff will take time and practice to nail down the timing and placement.  Seems like he's seeing them, but the receivers (benjamin) aren't necessarily seeing the same thing.  Or they're turning late, or the balls late/early etc.  Need more reps

Edited September 17, 2018 by dneveu

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

Allen was wildly inaccurate and was missing wide open receivers by not scanning the 2nd half of the field. That is what worries me the most.

 

I'll be giving this a few more weeks before I put my stamp on my expectation but IMO Allen did not look like an NFL QB. He looked like a Bills QB... But Allen's debut did not go well at all.

 

 

Did Goff look like an NFL QB rookie year? How about Kirk Cousins?

 

usually QBs who look good their rookie seasons is because they have talent around them and systems in place to help them out. Our QB had nothing. 

 

He may still turn out to be a stinker but judging him this year isn’t fair. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Did Goff look like an NFL QB rookie year? How about Kirk Cousins?

 

usually QBs who look good their rookie seasons is because they have talent around them and systems in place to help them out. Our QB had nothing. 

 

He may still turn out to be a stinker but judging him this year isn’t fair. 

 

Or just... based off of a single game when hes had limited time with the 1's to nail down timing with receivers, or blocking communication with the line. 

 

His line communication improved as the game went on, but considering 2 of 5 sacks were blown plays, he definitely seems to have better pocket presence than peterman.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Did Goff look like an NFL QB rookie year? How about Kirk Cousins?

 

usually QBs who look good their rookie seasons is because they have talent around them and systems in place to help them out. Our QB had nothing. 

 

He may still turn out to be a stinker but judging him this year isn’t fair. 

 

 

I'm just calling it the way I saw it with absolutely no references to anything else. He was underwhelming throwing the football in his 1st start.

 

that is my opinion, I saw a QB who was inaccurate and did not make many quick reads left WRs open.

 

Its not the only one game but his 1st was ho hum at best

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

I'm just calling it the way I saw it with absolutely no references to anything else. He was underwhelming throwing the football in his 1st start.

 

that is my opinion, I saw a QB who was inaccurate and did not make many quick reads left WRs open.

 

Its not the only one game but his 1st was ho hum at best

i think that if one is being fair, they must also look for the positives.  if one has a negative mindset though, they will not see very many positives.

[ddaryl]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

i think that if one is being fair, they must also look for the positives.  if one has a negative mindset though, they will not see very many positives.

 

I had lots of positives during preseason.. However real bullets are flying and I did not see much from a passing stand point in his 1st start. Yeah he ran a few made a few swing screens, but from and overall passing stand point and a QB general stand point he has lots of room for improvement

 

hopefully each week he improves.. 

[Foxx]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

I had lots of positives during preseason.. However real bullets are flying and I did not see much from a passing stand point in his 1st start. Yeah he ran a few made a few swing screens, but from and overall passing stand point and a QB general stand point he has lots of room for improvement

 

hopefully each week he improves.. 

i would say that from this observers eye, the positives and negatives were about equal. with that being said, i would agree, he has lots of room for improvement. i also liked very many of the things he displayed yesterday as well.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

It was a mixed bag from Allen in his first start, but I walked away from the game feeling more positive about him than negative.  Especially since he’s playing behind a putrid offensive line and has poor WR’s.  I will continue to watch his development before I pass judgement.

[ddaryl]

Just now, Foxx said:

i would say that from this observers eye, the positives and negatives were about equal. with that being said, i would agree, he has lots of room for improvement. i also liked very many of the things he displayed yesterday as well.

 

What did you like?

 

I am focusing purely on his passing because that is what we need..

 

however I will lay the disclaimer. I hope he improves quickly.

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

What did you like?

 

I am focusing purely on his passing because that is what we need..

 

however I will lay the disclaimer. I hope he improves quickly.

i did lay out my observations earlier in this thread. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/208884-low-expectations-245-passing-is-something-to-build-on/?do=findComment&comment=5316001

 

[John from Riverside]

While the passing yardage is nice...it really does not tell the tale of the game.....

 

- Josh Allen missed open receivers.....but he also isnt trusting his protection right now and those things go hand in hand...as he continues to get reps that will fix itself.

 

- We are NOT running the ball effectively.....in all honesty the other one cut north south runners on the team are having better games right now.....I dont want to trade Shady or anything but it speaks on the lack of run blocking.   When you cannot run the ball you HAVE to pass....when you fall behind in the game like we are doing you HAVE to pass.

 

- QBs are going to throw int's when they are trying to pass a team back into the game.   Happens to ALL of the qbs.

 

 

[zow2]

As much as I'm hoping for it, it's just not realistic to expect Allen to be slinging it all over the place with success.  He's still trying to process everything and therefore he's holding the ball too long.  Not to mention the receivers aren't getting wide open,  except for that DiMarco play.   I just want him to look competent, which he did. 

Even Alex Smith so far this season has thrown more than half his passes to running backs.    

[Foxx]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

While the passing yardage is nice...it really does not tell the tale of the game.....

 

- Josh Allen missed open receivers.....but he also isnt trusting his protection right now and those things go hand in hand...as he continues to get reps that will fix itself.

 

- We are NOT running the ball effectively.....in all honesty the other one cut north south runners on the team are having better games right now.....I dont want to trade Shady or anything but it speaks on the lack of run blocking.   When you cannot run the ball you HAVE to pass....when you fall behind in the game like we are doing you HAVE to pass.

 

- QBs are going to throw int's when they are trying to pass a team back into the game.   Happens to ALL of the qbs.

 

 

this is going to sound critical of our running game and particularly Shady but I don't mean it to.

 

i mostly love Shady and love that he can break a defenders ankles with his jukes. what i don't love is the constant sideways action at the line of scrimmage and tackles for loss or minimal gain that a straight ahead runner would have exploited for an acceptable gain. as a team, we are not in a position of being able to overcome, on a regular basis the highs and lows Shady presents. instead we would be much better served to get that 3/4 yards and a cloud of dust. i believe it would also help in our prized  assets development to have that steady production and not be behind the 8-ball with regularity.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Foxx

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

this is going to sound critical of our running game and particularly Shady but I don't mean it to.

 

i mostly love Shady and love that he can break a defenders ankles with his jukes. what i don't love is the constant sideways action at the line of scrimmage and tackles for loss or minimal gain that a straight ahead runner would have exploited for an acceptable gain. as a team, we are in a position of being able to overcome, on a regular basis the highs and lows Shady presents. instead we would be much better served to get that 3/4 yards and a cloud of dust. i believe it would also help in our prized  assets development to have that steady production and not be behind the 8-ball with regularity.

The OL simply is not giving him the space to operate......one cut north south runners dont have this problem because they take the minimal gain (and hopefully break a tackle like Ivory does)

 

By the way....for those bitching about every Beane move.....Ivory is not looking that bad right now.....definately a upgrade over last year's backup situation.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, skibum said:

I watched the "every throw Josh Allen made" video, and it was not pretty at all. He got lucky on the long Zay Jones throw, and a lot of his yards came on screen passes, one big one coming in garbage time. The rest of it looked really rough:

- Every throw was a laser beam, which is not always called for

- Placement did not allow for run after the catch; did not hit guys in stride really at all

- Even worse, placement often put receiver in the path of a Safety running full speed into his chest 

- Several balls that he was lucky were not picked off, including the aforementioned bomb to ZJ. 

 

I still believe he has it in him to be good to great, but I think the critics were right - this young fella is RAW. 

Legit Question?  How did he get lucky on the Zay Jones double catch? I mean Backshoulder throws are real? 

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[cba fan]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Legit Question?  How did he get lucky on the Zay Jones double catch? I mean Backshoulder throws are real? 

was that a back shoulder?

 

or just underthrown? Looks like it could have been either.

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, cba fan said:

was that a back shoulder?

 

or just underthrown? Looks like it could have been either.

Looked back shoulder to me, why because the CB was over the top. If not then EVERY QB in the NFL that makes that throw should be categorized as Lucky

Edited September 17, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Looked back shoulder to me, why because the CB was over the top. If not then EVERY QB in the NFL that makes that throw should be categorized as Lucky

Seen Eli complete that over and over to OBJ......

 

Yep every completion was lucky.

 

BTW Eli threw for over 100 yards the last 2 possessions and most were check downs to RB's......  

[Foxx]

20 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Looked back shoulder to me, why because the CB was over the top. If not then EVERY QB in the NFL that makes that throw should be categorized as Lucky

CB was not over the top.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/allen-shows-off-his-arm-on-57-yard-completion

 

underthrown in my estimation.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Foxx

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Foxx said:

CB was not over the top.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/allen-shows-off-his-arm-on-57-yard-completion

 

underthrown in my estimation.

That Corner was on the Right hip of Zay Jones in perfect position to defend that over the top throw.  Not the back shoulder throw that was made.  Again if this is Lucky EVERY QB that does it is Lukcy

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

CB was not over the top.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/allen-shows-off-his-arm-on-57-yard-completion

 

underthrown in my estimation.

How about being impressed he threw it 63 yards in the air.  I doubt the safety thought he had the arm to throw a tight pass that far.

 

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How about being impressed he threw it 63 yards in the air.  I doubt the safety thought he had the arm to throw a tight pass that far.

 

i wasn't disputing the throw, just the statement that the CB was over the top. he wasn't.

 

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

That Corner was on the Right hip of Zay Jones in perfect position to defend that over the top throw.  Not the back shoulder throw that was made.  Again if this is Lucky EVERY QB that does it is Lukcy

umm, no. no he wasn't. not sure what you are watching.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Foxx

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i wasn't disputing the throw, just the statement that the CB was over the top. he wasn't.

 

umm, no. no he wasn't. not sure what you are watching.

 

He absolutely was in the Right Hip but either way like many said 

 

in Allens first game if you dislike him there will be support for you to pick from. Same with if you like him. 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

He absolutely was in the Right Hip but either way like many said 

 

in Allens first game if you dislike him there will be support for you to pick from. Same with if you like him. 

 

 

He was the #7 pick.......  You give him every chance to be your franchise qb.  And he isn't a fifth round pick.

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

He absolutely was in the Right Hip but either way like many said 

 

in Allens first game if you dislike him there will be support for you to pick from. Same with if you like him. 

 

 

no. it is not a question of whether or not i liked Allen (which i did, ftr) , it is a matter of objectively seeing something without bias. it is simply, the ball was underthrown, nothing more, nothing less.  

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

no. it is not a question of whether or not i liked Allen (which i did, ftr) , it is a matter of objectively seeing something without bias. it is simply, the ball was underthrown, nothing more, nothing less.  

 

Thats your non biased take I get it. Mine is it was a back shoulder throw. 

 

Only one knows for sure is Allen. 

[purple haze]

4 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Allen was wildly inaccurate and was missing wide open receivers by not scanning the 2nd half of the field. That is what worries me the most.

 

I'll be giving this a few more weeks before I put my stamp on my expectation but IMO Allen did not look like an NFL QB. He looked like a Bills QB... But Allen's debut did not go well at all.

 

What?   That's the game you wanted to see not the game he played; e em with the mistakes he made.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Thats your non biased take I get it. Mine is it was a back shoulder throw. 

 

Only one knows for sure is Allen. 

He threw it as far as he could, the receiver was the only one watching the trajectory and made the adjustment, we see this over and over in the NFL on passes heaved 63 years in the air.

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Thats your non biased take I get it. Mine is it was a back shoulder throw. 

 

Only one knows for sure is Allen. 

again, i dispute your take.

 

first off, i don't know how you can say being  a yard and a half back of Zay, is being on his right hip. secondly, i'm not sure but i don't believe back shoulder throws require the receiver to  whoa up for 5 yards before the ball gets there. of course i have been wrong before so, ya know.....

Edited September 17, 2018 by Foxx

[zow2]

Yes, he's holding on to the ball way too long in the pocket.  but hey, he's improving from week 1 to week 2! 

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

45 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Yes, he's holding on to the ball way too long in the pocket.  but hey, he's improving from week 1 to week 2! 

 

 

 

 

It's not coincidence that it's younger, less experienced players on the top of this list.

Let's hope it's something he can correct.