Sadly, McDermott is the wrong guy to develop his own guys

[BigDingus]

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. 

But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern.

This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. 

Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!?

I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! 

All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys

And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by BigDingus

[fridge]

As much I think he’s proven to have no idea how to handle the QB situation, more glaring to me is how the team laid an egg offensively in the last two games (playoff game in Jacksonville, opener against Ravens).

 

Somehow, after failing to score a touchdown in our only playoff game this century, they failed to address anything to improve the offense during the offseason.

 

I don’t know about developing a QB, but I know that they have no idea what it takes to win this division, and frankly I’m sick of seeing guy after guy come in here and completely get it wrong.

[transplantbillsfan]

Can't really disagree with you.

 

I think McDermott needs to defer all QB decisions and trust to Dabol and we should hope Dabol is the genius McCoy claimed him to be.

 

The decision to trade McCarron wouldn't have disturbed me very much if Allen were named starter because, to me, that would have been a coach pumping up both of his young QBs: Allen obviously as the starter but Peterman would be given at least some confidence not having to look over his shoulder at another backup.

 

Trading McCarron and starting Peterman says that McDermott so obviously just can't evaluate QBs.

 

So, yes, that's a bit scary 

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Can't really disagree with you.

 

I think McDermott needs to defer all QB decisions and trust to Dabol and we should hope Dabol is the genius McCoy claimed him to be.

 

The decision to trade McCarron wouldn't have disturbed me very much if Allen were named starter because, to me, that would have been a coach pumping up both of his young QBs: Allen obviously as the starter but Peterman would be given at least some confidence not having to look over his shoulder at another backup.

 

Trading McCarron and starting Peterman says that McDermott so obviously just can't evaluate QBs.

 

So, yes, that's a bit scary 

How much did Daboll have a say in this?  If he was a major part of the decision, I'm not trusting his evaluation skills either.  Hopefully, Allen can save their bacon, but I hate the situation they're putting him in.  They have nobody to blame but themselves.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

How much did Daboll have a say in this?  If he was a major part of the decision, I'm not trusting his evaluation skills either.  Hopefully, Allen can save their bacon, but I hate the situation they're putting him in.  They have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Not a clue what role Dabol played in the trade McCarron decision. But I agree.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

How much did Daboll have a say in this?  If he was a major part of the decision, I'm not trusting his evaluation skills either.  Hopefully, Allen can save their bacon, but I hate the situation they're putting him in.  They have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Completely agree that they have nobody to blame but themselves. I am kind of not surprised with how it has shaken out. I never thought AJ was really any good and I knew Peterman wasn't. Look at the way the Jets and the Browns approached building their QB rooms this offseason:

 

Jets - rookie; guy who has been a career fringe starter; guy who has started but is an injury risk.

 

Browns - rookie; guy who has started the last 3 years and proven capable; long term career backup. 

 

Experienced guys who have started games in this league, won some games in this league and demonstrated that they are at the very least competent. One ended up starting its rookie the other didn't but both were sensible plans. 

 

The Bills on the other hand went rookie; 5 starts; 2 starts. 

 

Nobody forced them into that position. They got there of their own accord. Are we really supposed to be shocked, or even a bit surprised, how it has played out? From the moment they decided to roll with those 3 I always felt like it came down to "is Josh Allen able to be good quickly?" Or else it was going to be a mess. Last week was the mess... now Josh it is over to you. 

[bills11]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. 

But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern.

This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. 

Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!?

I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's shown he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! 

All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys

And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

 

I don't disagree,  he hasn't managed the qb situation properly. I think one issue is their plan kinda blew up in their face last year . They gutted the roster to fix the cap and get rid of players who didn't fit their vision and they anticipated having a terrible season.then the team got super lucky and timely turnovers and squeaked out 9 wins now they had to trade assets ..I think they figured they have a top 5 pick and could use all their picks for qb oline linebackers.however theres no excuse for Beane not addressing the line once wood and Incognito left his priority should have been to bring in replacements . I think the organization felt they would atleast get fairly competent play out of Peterman until week 7 or thereabouts where Josh could play ..can't blame them Peterman was great all spring in practice and preseason he looked like a different player ..unfortunately just like at Tennessee when the lights came on he panics .

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, BigDingus said:

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. 

But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern.

This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. 

Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!?

I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's shown he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! 

All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys

And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

 

Answer: see Houston Texans in 2017

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, bills11 said:

preseason he looked like a different player ..

 

See I challenge that assertion - and this is not me trying to be smart after the event I challenged it before Baltimore. He had a terrific first drive in game 1 against an uber vanilla cover 2 Carolina defense and after that he didn't really impress me at all. He completed a few balls - which he struggled to do on Sunday - but he didn't look a radically improved player to me.

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I challenge that assertion - and this is not me trying to be smart after the event I challenged it before Baltimore. He had a terrific first drive in game 1 against an uber vanilla cover 2 Carolina defense and after that he didn't really impress me at all. He completed a few balls - which he struggled to do on Sunday - but he didn't look a radically improved player to me.

The preseason isn’t a great indicator of a QB’s progress (or lack thereof in Nate’s case).  As you said, teams play conservatively in coverage and then try to wrap up and tackle. They don’t break hard on balls to avoid big collisions. They don’t reveal any exotic looks designed to confuse the QB because they don’t want tape on it before the regular season. They rest guys that have the slightest bumps and replace them with backups. The best players play the least snaps. Nate is fine if you want to play a rythym passing game against a team that isn’t trying to disrupt your rythym.

 

That’s the problem though. When the game matters teams know that if they can disrupt his timing he has no chance. The play that was the best indicator was when the DL dropped into the passing lane and then dropped the INT. I think he got picked again on the next play. The DBs got right up in the receivers faces daring Peterman to make a play beyond them. They cranked up the pressure to throw off his timing and get him uncomfortable in the pocket. EXACTLY what people thought would happen, happened. It will happen again if he is ever thrust back into the lineup. That’s why he can’t play. He is just too easy to defend. The fact that we could see that but McDermott couldn’t is terrifying.

[todd]

4 hours ago, BigDingus said:

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. 

But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern.

This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. 

Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!?

I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's shown he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! 

All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys

And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

 

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

That’s the problem though. When the game matters teams know that if they can disrupt his timing he has no chance. The play that was the best indicator was when the DL dropped into the passing lane and then dropped the INT. I think he got picked again on the next play. The DBs got right up in the receivers faces daring Peterman to make a play beyond them. They cranked up the pressure to throw off his timing and get him uncomfortable in the pocket. EXACTLY what people thought would happen, happened. It will happen again if he is ever thrust back into the lineup. That’s why he can’t play. He is just too easy to defend. The fact that we could see that but McDermott couldn’t is terrifying.

 

Yep. Because all his reads are pre-snap. If he thinks a guy is coming and he drops out into coverage then Peterman is likely throwing it to him. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Because all his reads are pre-snap. If he thinks a guy is coming and he drops out into coverage then Peterman is likely throwing it to him. 

And no one shows those looks in preseason so his pre-snap reads are open. 

[bills11]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I challenge that assertion - and this is not me trying to be smart after the event I challenged it before Baltimore. He had a terrific first drive in game 1 against an uber vanilla cover 2 Carolina defense and after that he didn't really impress me at all. He completed a few balls - which he struggled to do on Sunday - but he didn't look a radically improved player to me.

I agree with you completely ..I meant from McDermott's perspective. I wasn't impressed with Peterman at all this offseason..but the organization felt good enough about him to not sign an experienced signal caller . That's the alarming part . Not to mention the lack of production from Zay jones ...with juju and Cooper kupp picked many picks after him you start to question Beane...

[Royale with Cheese]

Kyle Williams is the last player to score a TD on our offense.

[Steptide]

I'm sure it's been said by people here since Allen was named starter, but part of me thinks McDermott wanted to start Peterman this entire season and "develop" Allen. McDermott didn't seem super excited about starting Allen, so I'm starting to wonder if it came from the top 

[Wayne Cubed]

I think the most confusing bit from McDermott was that he was going to go with Allen to start the season but then changed his mind after the Bengals preseason game. A game were Dion Dawkins sat out and they rotated the interior of the OL to simulate injuries. So he sets up Allen with a worst case scenario, to see how he handles it, which predictably doesn't go very well and thus confirms he should start Peterman based on the easy path he gave him in preseason.

[oldmanfan]

I think in retrospect that they might have gone a different direction and picked up say nan Anderson or Morre as the veteran presence vs. McCarron.  But let's step back and look at some of what's been posted here.

 

1.  Allen struggled to throw for over 50% in college and has never done anything.  Well, he threw for 56% and the offense they ran wasn't the quick 5 yard throws to wide open people.  So there's that. 

 

2.  They shouldn't have gotten rid of McCarron.  Well, maybe.  They would have had to carry 3 Qbs then.  But McCarron looked terrible in his half with the first team, Peterman looked better in preseason.  Peterman also looked better all off-season in workouts, and we don't know what went on in the film rooms, meetings, etc.  So they chose between two guys, and one had done better.  Peterman.  Why Peterman sees the deer in the headlights last week is a mystery to me; he seemingly cannot transfer his practice to real games.

 

3. Allen will get ruined behind a bad O line.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  That I thuink comes down to the individual makeup of the guy.  Allen seems pretty tough mentally.  And physically he hopefully an take hits.  It would be nice in the interior of the line decides to play football.

 

4.  McD can't develop a QB.  Well, maybe not because his specialty is as a DC.  But he's HC now, and his job is to hire guys that can develop the QB.  So Daboll will get to do that, and we will see how he does. 

 

So really, when you get down to it, what folks wanted I think is for the team to have a better O line in place, better WRs, etc. before letting Allen play.  But the only way you were going to get that all in one year was to not draft Allen (or the potential QB on the D side in Edmunds who looks like he's going to be pretty god), trade down, get a bunch more picks, and draft a bunch of O linemen and WRs.  And if you had done that, no Allen.  One can argue that one wither way of course; different people have different takes on how to build a team.  Beans and McD decided they needed the QB and the MLB.  Of course, so many people say the= only thing that matters is getting your QB, and when they make the moves to do so all of a sudden you should have used the picks the other way as described above.  But there you go.

 

So the Allen era begins.  Daboll and the rest of the O staff have a very important job now.  Allen does.  The linemen may want to actually start playing football, and the WRs may actually want to consider catching the ball when it hits them in the hands.  Should be interesting to watch.  And one last thing:  if I'm McD and Beane I reach out to a guy like Anderson, bring him in as the vet who can sit in the film room and help the kid, and put Nate either on the practice squad if eligible or just tell him it's been fun. That I think you can fairly criticize them about.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

So really, when you get down to it, what folks wanted I think is for the team to have a better O line in place, better WRs, etc. before letting Allen play. 

 

What I wanted was them not to go into camp and the pre-season with McCarron, Peterman and Allen as their options at QB. Again, before anyone accuses me of being wise after the event go back into the monster 30 page thread about who would start week 1. There are posts from me in there saying that I thought Allen would start because I didn't think the other two were any good.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What I wanted was them not to go into camp and the pre-season with McCarron, Peterman and Allen as their options at QB. Again, before anyone accuses me of being wise after the event go back into the monster 30 page thread about who would start week 1. There are posts from me in there saying that I thought Allen would start because I didn't think the other two were any good.

As I said above they should bring in a guy like Anderson now.  They perhaps could have gotten a guy like him vs. McCarron.  Not sure it would have made a whole lot of difference.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

As I said above they should bring in a guy like Anderson now.  They perhaps could have gotten a guy like him vs. McCarron.  Not sure it would have made a whole lot of difference.

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

[rodneykm]

I love how people know exactly how good of a a coach McDermott is going to be after a year. Why aren't you guys on the scout team or on a coaching staff somewhere? 

[GreggTX]

Sadly, people don't understand that we're rebuilding and couldn't fill all the holes in the roster in a single offseason. I agree they didn't have the team ready last Sunday, but if they show any progress before December that would be a positive.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

 

I think what's going on with this board is something along the lines of the following:

 

"They didn't do what I wanted them to do, so therefore they must not know what they're doing."

 

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

That presupposes the Jets we're going to trade McCown or Teddy, they could have freed up another 10-20 million in cap space for Keenum or Bradford.  Beane was pretty clear he wanted to get his QB in a draft with a number of prospects.  I was a Rosen guy myself but I'm warming up to the idea of Allen.

9 minutes ago, rodneykm said:

I love how people know exactly how good of a a coach McDermott is going to be after a year. Why aren't you guys on the scout team or on a coaching staff somewhere? 

It is worth note that the coach in question was the coach of a playoff team last year.

[Bob in STL]

I’m thinking we give them a second game before making such assertions.  Maybe even a second season. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

I’m thinking we give them a second game before making such assertions.  Maybe even a second season. 

 

STOP WITH YOUR REASONABLE TAKES WE CAN'T HAVE THAT HERE.

 

[Mark80]

Don't really understand how hard this is to comprehend.

 

AJ McCarron ain't crap.  He's been in the league a whopping 4 years before this year, playing sparingly.  What gives him the credentials to be such a great veteran presence to guide young QBs?  Does just being in the league for 4 years qualify you for that?  He was so good that no other teams wanted him really and we got him for the huge sum of $5M per year.  Impressive.

 

Peterman is a practice and Pre-Season superstar.  Last season Tyrod was terrible.  I'm sorry, he was.  I don't care if he didn't throw any picks.  You know what else he didn't throw?  Touch downs!  Peterman looked good in practice so they gave him a shot because they saw the obvious, Tyrod wasn't going to cut it.  It was a disaster, so they went back to Tyrod as our best option.  Then this season, it was blatantly obvious that he was the best of the bunch in the pre-season games.  How could you not roll with him based on that performance?  How could you keep the room by saying it was an open QB competition, but then you chose Allen over Peterman even though he was clearly better on the field in games?  Peterman got another shot, blew it again and was replaced, most likely for good this time.  Peterman earned the chance, didn't deliver.  Now we move on to Allen and see what we got, maybe a bit before they are 100% comfortable doing so, but the realization that Peterman just doesn't get it in "real" speed came quick and the decision to change was decisive. 

 

It's really not that complicated at all folks. 

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, todd said:

 

Ridiculous. New offense, roster turnover, one game into the second year of a coaching regime, and you've decided he can't develop a QB? Seriously, that's just insane. 

What would indicate that these guys have a clue? If the plan was to draft QB of the future why trade Taylor? Taylor could have held the place and mentored Allen certainly as well as McCarron. At least sign someone that has started more than five games. Then they doubled down by deciding that going with Peterman and Allen was fine. Then they tripled down by starting Peterman. He is almost as much a rookie as Allen, two NFL starts. Now they are out of options. There are people on this site that would have done better.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

That presupposes the Jets we're going to trade McCown or Teddy, they could have freed up another 10-20 million in cap space for Keenum or Bradford.

 

 

No it doesn't. All 4 were FAs. McCown re-signed with the Jets in the legal tampering period, Bridgewater signed there too. All 4 were "on the market" but we waited it out and signed the guy with 5 starts. I agree McCarron was cheaper but to quote a line from the classic British sitcom Fawlty Towers "and the reason he's cheap is that he's no bloody good."

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it doesn't. All 4 were FAs. McCown re-signed with the Jets in the legal tampering period, Bridgewater signed there too. All 4 were "on the market" but we waited it out and signed the guy with 5 starts. I agree McCarron was cheaper but to quote a line from the classic British sitcom Fawlty Towers "and the reason he's cheap is that he's no bloody good."

 

Yea and it was said at the time that all these guys were too expensive for what the Bills wanted to pay. 

[GG]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They could have got Teddy Bridgewater or Sam Bradford or Josh McCown or Case Keenum.  They didn't have to wait until the vet QB carousel stopped spinning and take the last man standing.

 

Or they could have drafted one of the more "ready to start" QBs in the draft (though I always think shoot in the draft for the guy you think will be the best and if that genuinely was Allen in their opinion then fair enough even if I don't agree).

 

Then coming out of the draft knowing what they were left with - the last vet standing and the project from the draft - they could have at that point gone and got someone like Moore or Anderson who has started more than 5 NFL games as an insurance policy.

 

Anyone who is even barely capable as an NFL QB would make a huge difference from Peterman. This staff have overvalued his worth since the moment they wasted a 5th round pick on him. 

 

Out of all those options, I think the last one is the most realistic.  McCown wasn't leaving the Jets.  We don't know how much the Bills were in the bidding in the first stage of QB FA, but looking at the contracts those guys signed, it was clear that the Bills were out of the running soon.

 

I had no problem with going into camp with McCarron as the back up.  I do have a problem with only Peterman in that role now.

[GunnerBill]

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

I get your point.  I think it was primarily cap issues that were involved. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I get your point.  I think it was primarily cap issues that were involved. 

 

And I get that..... but unless the guys they did spend their $$s on up their game hindsight will not be kind to the decisions they made.

[BigBuff423]

I find it interesting everyone - AFTER ONE FREAKING WEEK - is ready to throw in the towel on how this team, i.e. McDermott, develops talent and in this thread's specific case, QB. I don't know why it's so hard for fans to understand what has actually happened when you take the intent of Beane and McD with what happened in the Off-season to know this season was essentially a virtual guarantee to be a rough one, and they knew it. Tyrod Taylor is not Josh McCown or some other wily Vet who would have been content to mentor the new QB savior of the Buffalo Bills. He wanted to start and he wanted some room to show he could continue to start as a QB for years to come, that wasn't happening in Buffalo. They had him for one more year on a $16 million deal for ONE year. That means, they would have had to either pay him again or let him go. Some of you people that are complaining about not keeping him, with one year left on a deal, are the same that would be complaining that the Bills didn't at least get a ham sandwich for him. Well, they did much better than that because what they got in return led to Edmunds - who some had going in the top 10, the Bills got at 16.

 

Additionally, Beane and McD planned to strip away all of the poor contracts doled out by Whaley and they knew it was going to be hard for the first two years, in order to Draft their guys, sign the talent they believed fit the team and left the driftwood of the dead Cap money float away. Furthermore, they were also getting rid of guys (although I didn't and still don't like the Darby trade) who they didn't feel met their expectations of team first mentality. 

 

Then you have the retirement of Wood which came unexpectedly, and yes it was early in the Off-season but if you couldn't tell these guys had a plan and they were NOT deviating from that plan. Then, when they thought Richie was still in the fold for one more year, he abruptly "retires" because he didn't like the renegotiated deal. That's two big pieces that were originally unanticipated. Again, they could have responded but what were they to do? They could have tried to throw money at a guy like Nate Solder or Norwell, but they were bound and determined to set themselves free from Cap hell. And guess what....they have. They're sucking it up this year to make the long-term better. 

 

In the interim, they Drafted their future in Allen and Edmunds and still came away with Horrible Harry which may very well be the steal of the Draft and a guy like Teller who might start on the Offensive line next year, not bad for a 5th round pick. But we forget, none of these guys would be here (except maybe Harrison Phillips) if it weren't for the other trades to get them in position to make these moves. 

 

It sucks to watch a poor Offensive line be truly ineffective and the hodge-podge mix of WRs and Clay who has never come close to his contract run routes. But that said, if we were to reverse the two years: last year this total tear-down and looking ugly and this year we slipped into the playoffs, would fans be so impatient? I don't think so....last year was great, and I'm glad that damn monkey got sitting our backs got his throat slit, but I think any reasonable fan knew this was a 2 to 3 year rebuild. They're doing what they can to win now - i.e. bringing in Kerley as a the slot guy, and Star and Trent, in a way that doesn't over extend themselves and we're still JUST ONE GAME into the season. Who knows how this goes. But saying that McD and the team can't develop talent, seems to ignore how much they got out of Tre, Poyer, and Hyde last year or how Milano went from being a late round pick to a strong starter by year's end or how Dawkins was a 2nd round pick that afforded the team the ability to trade Glenn to move up and get Allen. 

 

I'm not saying I've agreed with ever decision or that I know for sure they can develop a QB or even have the mind for Offense that's needed. What I am saying is that it's WAAAAAY too early to make that kind of conclusion, especially when McD and his staff and Beane and his staff have already made the playoffs in their first year (regardless of how, they still had to be in a position to do that at the end of the year when no one, not even us fans, gave them a chance). 

 

Peterman was a poor choice, but McD had to be a man of his word and say that whomever earned that right, would get it. Then, Allen struggled in the Bengals game and Peterman - up to that point - was just lights out. Over 80% completion rate, 1 INT that bounced of Ivory's hands, multiple TDs and moving the Offense up and down the field. What happened? Well, I suppose we know definitively without question Nate is just not a Sunday QB, he's a great practice and scrimmage QB. I have a feeling, Allen will be the opposite and when the lights come on, the pressure bears down and the yards and games count, he'll shine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's time to find out. 

[GunnerBill]

I am not throwing the towel in on McDermott or Beane. Safe to say I am higher on the former than the latter at the moment though.

[GG]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I have no problem with people saying "I understand why the Bills made the choices they did even if they are not working out too well with hindsight." It is the "what other choice did they have?" narrative that riles me. More than maybe any other free agency period for Quarterbacks in recent history there WERE choices.

 

Realistically they didn't have too many choices in FA.  It was clear that they were looking for a bridge QB, so Keenum and Cousins were out.  They weren't trading for Smith.  That left Bradford who went for a crazy number given his injury history.  McCarron was the remaining safe choice.

 

Jets were in a totally different spot because they already had McCown and they knew they were picking a good prospect high up.  Bills were still sitting with the 12th & 22nd picks. 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I get that..... but unless the guys they did spend their $$s on up their game hindsight will not be kind to the decisions they made.

Absolutely.  But also let's remember they have a multiyear plan to get this done, right? 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GG said:

 

Realistically they didn't have too many choices in FA.  It was clear that they were looking for a bridge QB, so Keenum and Cousins were out.  They weren't trading for Smith.  That left Bradford who went for a crazy number given his injury history.  McCarron was the remaining safe choice.

 

Jets were in a totally different spot because they already had McCown and they knew they were picking a good prospect high up.  Bills were still sitting with the 12th & 22nd picks. 

 

McCown was a FA. The Jets had to re-sign him. And McCarron wasn't the safe choice. He was the cheap choice. A guy who has 5 pretty uninspiring starts in the league was never the safe choice. Keenum signed a bridge deal in Denver by the way. They had choices. Their decision was to spend as little on a FA vet QB as possible and McCarron was the cheapest choice. Cheapest, not safest.