SI.com: Why Peterman started Wk 1, Why Allen is starting now, and Why Tyrod was never coming back

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

0.00001% of NFL QBs?    Buy me a lottery ticket, won't you...

At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team? Doubt it.

 

To name a few more guys who started as rookies with a below average offensive line and not a ton of help at WR: Wilson. Newton. Matt Ryan. Dalton (Green was a rookie). Luck. Roethlisberger had a nearly identical trajectory as Allen does now although with a much better offensive line. It's not unheard of.

[GaryPinC]

Good article, it's in-line with how Beane and McD positioned themselves in taking over this team.  The one big fly in the ointment is trading AJ.  We literally have no competent back up quarterback.  Peterman was epically bad in his debut last year.  Couldn't handle the pressure and doesn't have a good enough arm either.  He shouldn't be in the NFL above the practice squad level.

 

We're in dead money hell this year and have to suffer with a poor O-line and WR.  Maybe that's all part of the plan.

But if it is, a well thought out coach doesn't allow AJ to be dealt before NP and the O-line have proven themselves on some level in an actual game.   Now, if Allen gets hurt, our already pathetic offense will collapse.

 

If I were Daboll or McCoy, I'd be utterly pissed at the mess this offense has become.

[BobChalmers]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team?

 

You realize there is literally no way to know this, right?

 

I believe David Carr was such an example, btw.

 

I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BobChalmers said:

 

You realize there is literally no way to know this, right?

 

I believe David Carr was such an example, btw.

 

I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with.

Of course. That was the point.

[BobChalmers]

4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Good article, it's in-line with how Beane and McD positioned themselves in taking over this team.  The one big fly in the ointment is trading AJ.  We literally have no competent back up quarterback.  Peterman was epically bad in his debut last year.  Couldn't handle the pressure and doesn't have a good enough arm either.  He shouldn't be in the NFL above the practice squad level.

 

We're in dead money hell this year and have to suffer with a poor O-line and WR.  Maybe that's all part of the plan.

But if it is, a well thought out coach doesn't allow AJ to be dealt before NP and the O-line have proven themselves on some level in an actual game.   Now, if Allen gets hurt, our already pathetic offense will collapse.

 

If I were Daboll or McCoy, I'd be utterly pissed at the mess this offense has become.

 

This is based on the very questionable premise that McCarron was any good.  He lost out to Peterman AND Allen for a good reason.

 

They wanted Bradford, they didn't get him - AJM was the best they could do and he really wasn't worth having.

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, Idandria said:

I love this from the article:

 

“Peterman pulled the rare Blutarsky (passer rating: zero-point-zero) in Baltimore. The performance served as an encore to his five-interception effort against the Chargers in his first career start last fall.”

 

was it ever an an encore performance to a historically bad debut. 

 

And I agree, Peterman needs to be known as Blutarsky going forward. 

 

The Blutarsky line is really funny except if you're Nate. 

[Fadingpain]

2 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Come on any article that lauds the Star signing should be looked at a tad skeptically.  It's not a bad article, but its certainly one of those pieces that they are trying to sell to demoralized fan base.  The obvious issues are skirted over (like failure to address the O line in the draft or FA in a meaningful way - na 5th round pick and a couple of below average OL FAs doesn't really scream investment in protecting your investment at QB).  Even if you buy into the Tyrod point of view in the article, the fact remains that they could have signed Bridgewater at the level of 6 mil/yr or kept McCarron as a substantial investment in having the luxury to sit Allen if he wasn't ready in their eyes.  Then the cap issues are kind of glossed over on how a team cap strapped created even more dead cap with a couple of their moves this offseason.

I'm not totally sure why folks who live on a Bills information message board 24/7 look to national media guys to give them answers about their team.

 

We know more about the big picture than these writers do, even if we lack some of their contacts.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Getting Allen through the accumulation of picks has zero to do with the fiasco of the Peterman Principle that McD and Beane are wholly responsible for.

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

0.00001% of NFL QBs?    Buy me a lottery ticket, won't you...

There are some guys that don't make it if you throw them in as rookies, like Carr and such.  And some that do, like the two I mentioned. And a lot more on either side of the argument.  It is not just 0.0001% of NFL QBs that started as rookies and flamed out because of it. 

 

Perhaps the most direct recent example is Wentz.  Came from a small school, was supposed to sit his rookie year and watch, but because of injury to Bradford got thrown in there.  And he did fine.  It will come down to the talent Allen has, and the intestinal fortitude he has.  As to the latter, he doesn't strike me as the type that will fold under pressure.

 

 

8 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

You realize there is literally no way to know this, right?

 

I believe David Carr was such an example, btw.

 

I also believe Bills fans, far too many being complete fools, will run Allen out of town on a rail if he doesn't succeed, and won't cut him any slack at all for the weak team he has to work with.

Just for fun let's count the number of posts saying he's a bust when he throws his first pick.

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

At least he gave you a couple of examples. You gonna come up with a list of rookie QBs who were going to be good but got ruined by having to start too soon on a bad team? Doubt it.

 

To name a few more guys who started as rookies with a below average offensive line and not a ton of help at WR: Wilson. Newton. Matt Ryan. Dalton (Green was a rookie). Luck. Roethlisberger had a nearly identical trajectory as Allen does now although with a much better offensive line. It's not unheard of.

Shhh.  Facts are dangerous.

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

I get what you're saying and had the same suspicion.

 

On the other hand, I disagree with the critics who call Beane and McD  "clueless" and the like.   It's easy to see there's a rational plan behind all their moves.  

 

An effective plan?  We'll see.  I don't agree with every move Beane's made either.  But there's real logic and football acumen at work.  

Agreed. I think they are far from clueless, and I think they have a clear plan + vision for this team (which is more than I can say for most of the previous regimes). 

 

I know that many around here really seem to have turned on them after last Sunday. But I am still a big fan of McDermott.

 

This year was was always going to be a struggle, with the crazy amount of dead cap space and likely struggles of a rookie QB. I have high hopes for the future, though. 

[DC Tom]

Except I'm not worried as much for Allen's confidence behind this line as I am for his physical health.

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Never said he did. I was just saying that it sounds like he had a conversation with McDermott or Beane, where they explained their thinking on this season and some of the decisions they’ve made. 

I feel like Some of the stuff in that article clearly came at the direction of, or from a discussion with, Beane and/or McDermott. 

 

Your words, not mine.

 

[Ayjent]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Of course!  Terry P probably slipped Breer $100G under the table and asked him to write an article to instill faith for the fans.

 

If SI wanted to sell an article and and get the most hits, they'd write an article ripping the Bills for all the moves.

That's a crowded market right now, isn't it?  A different take is to provide a positive perspective for those who are tired of the local and national media beating up their team.  It's working.  I never suggested anything was influenced by OBD, just saying that they have a market for positive Bills news in saturated bad news Bills market.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Getting Allen through the accumulation of picks has zero to do with the fiasco of the Peterman Principle that McD and Beane are wholly responsible for.

Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

And some aren't.  HOFers like Aikman and P Manning.  

 

Don't play Allen.....you'll RUIN him!!

 

 

[BillsFan4]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I feel like Some of the stuff in that article clearly came at the direction of, or from a discussion with, Beane and/or McDermott. 

 

Your words, not mine.

 

You are right. That’s what I said. But also notice the “or from a discussion with” part. 

 

I guess i could have been more clear on what I meant. 

 

I wasn’t saying that they directed/forced him to write that article, as you seemed to imply. 

 

I was saying that maybe they called him up and discussed their thinking with him in order to help get their message out to the fans. Or maybe he wrote the article because of a conversation he had with them. Stuff like that happens all the ime. 

 

All I meant is that the way the article was written, it seemed to me that some of the info may have come from a Bills source. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by BillsFan4

[Kelly the Dog]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past.

Well he did last three minutes and thirty-eight seconds longer than the last fiasco! So there is progress!

 

Either that or maybe McD is getting more stupider.

[BuffaloHokie13]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Peterman is just a mini-fiasco imo. He was a 5th round pick. He played poorly in two games, both losses. We kept him over AJ McCarron. I'm not terribly upset over the whole Peterman thing if truth be told as long as it's in the past.

Sometimes a god-fearing man needs to recognize when a temptation is too strong to resist and remove the temptation from their life. As long as NP is on the roster I'm nervous as heck that McD will continue to have random outbursts of incompetence.

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

You are right. That’s what I said. But also notice the “or from a discussion with” part. 

 

I guess i could have been more clear on what I meant. 

 

I wasn’t saying that they directed/forced him to write that article, as you seemed to imply. 

 

I was saying that maybe they called him up and discussed their thinking with him in order to help get their message out to the fans. Or maybe he wrote the article because of a conversation he had with them. Stuff like that happens all the ime. 

 

All I meant is that the way the article was written, it seemed to me that some of the info may have come from a Bills source. 

Gotcha.  I think the article is pretty much exactly where McD was coming from.

The kid gets his shot.  Interesting about his take on the Cinci pre-season game.  If anyone up front had decided to play in that game, maybe Allen starts last week and this whole debate would have been moot.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sometimes a god-fearing man needs to recognize when a temptation is too strong to resist and remove the temptation from their life. As long as NP is on the roster I'm nervous as heck that McD will continue to have random outbursts of incompetence.

So Peterman is the apple and McD is Adam...I suppose that makes Beane Eve and BullBuchanan the devil.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Don't play Allen.....you'll RUIN him!!

 

 

I personally was an advocate to sit him for a while and let him learn.  But plans change.  I'm trying to imagine the conversation McD had with him yesterday.  Maybe along the lines of:

 

Josjh allen!  Josh Allen!

 

Look Josh.  You have to lead your troops.  When I was 12 years old Josh, I lost both my parents in the same month!  I had 12 brothers and sisters and I was the youngest, but they all looked up to me.  And I had to lead my troops..  You have to lead your troops, son.

 

Or something like that.

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So Peterman is the apple and McD is Adam...I suppose that makes Beane Eve and BullBuchanan the devil.

I think Daboll is Eve.

[MJS]

Hmm. I heard there was no hope and that the Bills should fire everyone and not bother showing up on Sundays.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think Daboll is Eve.

And Dennison is Lillith.

[VW82]

54 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

I would like to hear honest answers from the folks here on how they would react if Allen started out the way Aikman did.  

 

Year	GP	Att	Com	Pct	Yds	TD	Int	Long	QB Rating
1989	11	293	155	52.9	1,749	9	18	75	55.7
1990	15	399	226	56.6	2,579	11	18	61	66.6
1991	12	363	237	65.3	2,754	11	10	61	86.7

 

It took Aikman three years to get to where EJ Manuel started as a rookie.

 

Obviously we're in a different era where passing is easier, but people here will probably be screaming to draft another QB by half-way through the season.

 

 

Not only that but Aikman was the number one overall pick and considered ready to start right out of camp. Manning was the number one overall pick and considered ready to start right out of camp. Allen was considered raw at the draft, a bit of a reach at 7, and seemed no where near ready to start coming out of camp.   

 

The better comparison is Goff. Even though he was taken at one the Rams knew he needed time, so they had Case Keenum start those first nine games then put Goff in when they were out of it and the pressure was off. He sucked, predictably, but the consequences weren't as big at that point so no one was calling for his head. He got reps in a less stressful environment and was able to take that experience into year two when the Rams were able to put a much improved team around him. 

 

I thought his was our plan too, but McBeane would rather throw Allen to the wolves I guess. The national media is just dying to give this kid the bust label, and you know fans will turn on him if he doesn't look good before the end of the year. I can't recall a team putting their unproven rookie QB in this tough of a spot.

Edited September 13, 2018 by VW82

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I personally was an advocate to sit him for a while and let him learn.  But plans change.  I'm trying to imagine the conversation McD had with him yesterday.  Maybe along the lines of:

 

Josjh allen!  Josh Allen!

 

Look Josh.  You have to lead your troops.  When I was 12 years old Josh, I lost both my parents in the same month!  I had 12 brothers and sisters and I was the youngest, but they all looked up to me.  And I had to lead my troops..  You have to lead your troops, son.

 

Or something like that.

 

 

 

"Look at my pecs Josh.  LOOK AT THEM!!  These pecs will never lie to you, never turn on you, or let you down.  These pecs which fill up my always-on Bills gear long sleeved T shirt are all you need to believe in.....because they (now) believe in you."

[Foxx]

i know i'll feel better about this Bills team if the Ravens come close to doing to the Bengals tonight what they did to us last Sunday. on the other hand, if Cincinnati lights Baltimore up, i won't have much hope for our home opener.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Foxx

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Not only that but Aikman was the number one overall pick and considered ready to start right out of camp. Manning was the number one overall pick and considered ready to start right out of camp. Allen was considered raw at the draft, a bit of a reach at 7, and seemed no where near ready to start coming out of camp.   

 

The better comparison is Goff. Even though he was taken at one the Rams knew he needed time, so they had Case Keenum start those first nine games then put Goff in when they were out of it and the pressure was off. He sucked, predictably, but it didn't matter. He got reps in a less stressful environment and was able to take that experience into year two when the Rams were able to put a much improved team around him. 

 

I thought his was our plan too, but McBeane would rather throw Allen to the wolves I guess. The national media is just dying to give this kid the bust label, and you know fans will turn on him if he doesn't look good before the end of the year. I can't recall a team putting a kid in this tough of a spot.

How about Wentz?  I think that's the best comparison.  Both out of small schools, both were supposed to sit, but both got thrown in earlier thane expected, one because of injury to the placeholder and one because the placeholder was inept. 

 

We'll see what happens.  If instead of Peterman being terrible last week, he's have blown out his shoulder, we'd be in the same position.  So we'll see how the kid responds.  If he rises to the challenge like Wentz, great.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

How about Wentz?  I think that's the best comparison.  Both out of small schools, both were supposed to sit, but both got thrown in earlier thane expected, one because of injury to the placeholder and one because the placeholder was inept. 

 

We'll see what happens.  If instead of Peterman being terrible last week, he's have blown out his shoulder, we'd be in the same position.  So we'll see how the kid responds.  If he rises to the challenge like Wentz, great.

Wentz was far enough along in camp that the staff saw it fit to trade away Sam Bradford. It wasn't an injury, it was a decision by the FO.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

we would be in such a better place if we traded Tyrod last year.

 

 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

3 hours ago, PeterDude said:

 

I stopped reading when I got to that part.

 

So you read 90% of the article and stopped towards the end because of that part? 

 

OK...

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i know i'll feel better about this Bills team if the Ravens come close to doing to the Bengals tonight what they did to us last Sunday. on the other hand, if Cincinnati lights Baltimore up, i won't have much hope for our home opener.

These two teams always play each other close, it seems. It should be a good game. Both teams look solid so far.

[GaryPinC]

44 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

This is based on the very questionable premise that McCarron was any good.  He lost out to Peterman AND Allen for a good reason.

 

They wanted Bradford, they didn't get him - AJM was the best they could do and he really wasn't worth having.

I never said McCarron is any good.  But he's clearly better than Peterman (in a regular season game) and has spent time learning the playbook.  

[PeterDude]

2 minutes ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

So you read 90% of the article and stopped towards the end because of that part? 

 

OK...

 

Yes, felt duped at that point.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Wentz was far enough along in camp that the staff saw it fit to trade away Sam Bradford. It wasn't an injury, it was a decision by the FO.

Yep.  My bad. With Bradford I guess I just assumed it was injury.  Still somewhat similar, in that the article states if Allen had looked better against the Bengals odds are he starts last week.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i know i'll feel better about this Bills team if the Ravens come close to doing to the Bengals tonight what they did to us last Sunday. on the other hand, if Cincinnati lights Baltimore up, i won't have much hope for our home opener.

Early in the season still. Lots of settling out and weird results. I wouldn't read too much into it.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Yep.  My bad. With Bradford I guess I just assumed it was injury.  Still somewhat similar, in that the article states if Allen had looked better against the Bengals odds are he starts last week.

Yeah, that's the part that I disagree with. That game was played without our starting LT, and the coaches went into the game planning to shuffle the interior OL. That's not a situation they would have expected positive results from. I do think the Bengals game was a test, but I think Allen came out of it impressive. His mechanics did not regress under pressure often, he kept his poise, he didn't complain, and he addressed the media by taking responsibility instead of making excuses and pointing fingers.

[VW82]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

How about Wentz?  I think that's the best comparison.  Both out of small schools, both were supposed to sit, but both got thrown in earlier thane expected, one because of injury to the placeholder and one because the placeholder was inept. 

 

We'll see what happens.  If instead of Peterman being terrible last week, he's have blown out his shoulder, we'd be in the same position.  So we'll see how the kid responds.  If he rises to the challenge like Wentz, great.

 

Between Wentz and Goff, Wentz was considered far more NFL ready at the draft and even coming out of camp. Eagles also had a SB level roster to surround Wentz and take some of the pressure off him. Everyone keeps comparing him to Allen because they both came from small schools but the comparison ends there. They're completely different QBs, with polar opposite situations (as far as help talent), and their learning curves coming into the league couldn't be anymore dissimilar. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yeah, that's the part that I disagree with. That game was played without our starting LT, and the coaches went into the game planning to shuffle the interior OL. That's not a situation they would have expected positive results from. I do think the Bengals game was a test, but I think Allen came out of it impressive. His mechanics did not regress under pressure often, he kept his poise, he didn't complain, and he addressed the media by taking responsibility instead of making excuses and pointing fingers.

I see your point.  I was screaming at my TV during that game.  The interior of the line was thrown around like a pee wee team playing a college team.  Ducasse weighs like 330?  And got thrown around like a rag doll.

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, B Fan in LA said:

Allen gives the Bills their best shot to win now............

 

Really ?? we're going to win now ??

Did Albert bother to look at our schedule before writing this piece ?

________________

 

So they didn't start Allen in Game 1 because he got annihilated against the Bengals,

but now he's going to start every game this year and not get hurt ?

 

And just for the heck of it...........suppose he does have to sit a few snaps............

who are they going to bring in to replace him ?

 

 

I don't want to think about that.