Question about 90's Bills

[Ronin]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

I actually thought we’d win #1 vs Giants, and we should have, but we got out-coached/QB’b. Run the ball Jimbo. Should have won that by a couple TD’s. 

 

You hit the nail right on the head Augie!

 

We were entirely outcoached.  Parcells, Gibbs, & Johnson all outcoached us.  Some of that evidence can clearly be seen in how the Cowboys came out of the locker room contrasted with how our Bills emerged.  They came out fist-pumping, Bruce came out walking, looking at the field, helmet in hand.  

 

While those guys were in the locker room strategizing and throwing chairs (literally), Marv was (literally) reading Hemmingway quotes.  

 

Swap coaches and we have 3 championships.  

 

Marv was a good but not a great coach.  He was clearly bested in all four SBs.  That Giants SB shouldn't even have been close, we easily had the better team, particularly on offense.  

 

Having said that, to the OP, I don't ever recall thinking to myself that I didn't want us to go back to another SB nor do I recall any Bills fan at the time expressing such nonsense.  

Edited July 29, 2018 by TaskersGhost
Update

[#34fan]

I always wanted to go back... -ALWAYS,

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hell no, I wanted them to go every year and win. Someday we will win four in a row and many others besides.

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

4 hours ago, Buftex said:

Rediculous.  Why was it Andre Reeds fault, "period"?  Why not Darryl Talley, and the 3 other Bills who whiffed on tackles as Mark Ingram killed them on 3rd &22, and helped the Giants, essentially hold the ball for the entire 3rd quarter...or Jim for throwing a meaningless pass for 2 yards, to Keith McKellar, which wasted about 8 seconds on the clock during the final drive? Or hell, why not Keith McKellar for not having the prescense of mind to "drop" that same pass, inistead of making a great effort for the shoe-string catch? Of mayve blame Jim for getting a little pass-happy on that final drive, when Thurman was having an MVP type game. Blaming Reed for the loss,, "period" is absurd.  The Giants/Bellechiks' defense game plan in 25 was to punish the Bills WR's.  To their credit, they did...look at the boxscore for that game.  Reed caught 8 passes for 62 yards....Lofton caught 1 pass for 61 yeards.  McKellar 2 for 11.  The Giants were determined to shut down the Bills potent passing game...and they did for the most part.  Plenty of mistakes made that day...Andre Reed was far from the only reason they lost.

 

 

 

The third and 22 in Super Bowl XXV is to me the seminal play. Bruce, Biscuit, Talley and Smith allowed that to happen, not Andre Reed.

 

It was a back breaker for a potential football empire. That play alone sums up the 90's Bills.

[nucci]

Yeah, who would want their team in the Superbowl?

[Peace Frog]

SB 25: we underperformed in the first half because of Jim Kelly's playing calling.  The defense let us down in the 2nd half with shoddy tackling.

SB 26: this game was not as close as the score indicated.  Washington dominated us on both sides of the ball.  The worst loss of all four SBs, IMO.

SB 27: people think I'm crazy but I would've kept starting Frank Reich.  He engineered the greatest comeback against Houston, went on the road and beat Pittsburgh, and certainly could've done just as good as Jimbo at Miami, if not better.(Kelly had 2 ints)  I think Dallas would've still beat us but it wouldn't have been as embarrassing.

SB 28: we choked in the 2nd half.  there is no other way to put it.  The Bills lost their genitals in the 3rd quarter after Dallas took the lead, and by the 4th quarter, they lost their heart.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Peace Frog

[Seanbillsfan2206]

7 hours ago, GRHater69 said:

We lost the first SB because of Andre Reed.....period. After the safety if he didn't hear Myron Guyton's footsteps and held on to the ball for a critical 3rd down conversion we go in and score. That would have taken the Giants out of their gameplan and forced them to throw more which would have unleashed Bruce and Biscuit. To me the whole game swung on that series. We get 2 pts. on the safety, and then another 7. That's 9 points when we already had the lead.

 

 

We got out coached in the first Super Bowl. Period 

[Fr. Jerk]

Although the outcomes were not favorable it was still exciting every year they made it. So no. 

[Kwai San]

7 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

I never had that feeling of not wanting them to get back to the Superbowl!  

 

I will admit to having become pretty jaded by the time #4 came up.  I had given up hope at that point and assumed it would be a loss.

 

Of course once the game started, I was right back into it again believing we'd finally get the job done.

 

Tampa, not Miami.

 

 

 

Thanks - my bad....sheesh - how did I ever forget that.......tough gitting old...

Edited July 29, 2018 by Kwai San

[BillsPride12]

7 hours ago, Buftex said:

Rediculous.  Why was it Andre Reeds fault, "period"?  Why not Darryl Talley, and the 3 other Bills who whiffed on tackles as Mark Ingram killed them on 3rd &22, and helped the Giants, essentially hold the ball for the entire 3rd quarter...or Jim for throwing a meaningless pass for 2 yards, to Keith McKellar, which wasted about 8 seconds on the clock during the final drive? Or hell, why not Keith McKellar for not having the prescense of mind to "drop" that same pass, inistead of making a great effort for the shoe-string catch? Of mayve blame Jim for getting a little pass-happy on that final drive, when Thurman was having an MVP type game. Blaming Reed for the loss,, "period" is absurd.  The Giants/Bellechiks' defense game plan in 25 was to punish the Bills WR's.  To their credit, they did...look at the boxscore for that game.  Reed caught 8 passes for 62 yards....Lofton caught 1 pass for 61 yeards.  McKellar 2 for 11.  The Giants were determined to shut down the Bills potent passing game...and they did for the most part.  Plenty of mistakes made that day...Andre Reed was far from the only reason they lost.

 

 

My little league football coach used to always say after a bad loss..."well the only positive we can take from this one is we lost as a team" and I've always thought that summed up Super Bowl 25 in a nutshell.  As a team so many guys contributed to losing that game it really wasn't fair Norwood became the scapegoat.  It's also crazy that for as many things that went wrong for the Bills in that game that they still had a chance to win it at the end.  

[Kwai San]

9 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I agree with the last part of this. Norwood was money in 1990, if the kick was within 40 yards. Christie would have made that kick 95 times out of 100. As for the partying? Overrated imo. No one partied heartier than the Raiders in the 70’s and 80’s and they did just fine. The Bills were a great team with a fatal flaw, and drew a terrible matchup in 3 of four games. They should have had enough to beat the NYG with a little better clock management on the final drive and without a miraculous non- fumble by JH in his own endzone. 

 

Ya a totally different era those Raiders played in.....things not as structured as it was in the 90's.  Bills shoulda been able to overcome the partying but it certainly didn't help.  110% agree on the Fatal Flaw theory......they could sneak by on the lesser teams but the top teams had the personnel and coaching to see it and exploit it.  All in all - thems were to days to be a Bills fan!

[The Process]

9 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

By the 92 season, as a fan, did you not want the Bill's to get back to the SB? Mainly because you knew they were unlikely to beat the 49ers or Cowboys, and it was too tough to take? I know it sounds crazy. But Marv Levy said fans would come up to him and plead that they not get back to the SB. Mostly because they didn't have a great shot of winning, and they ( Fans) couldn't deal with more dissapointments.

 

Furthermore, how did you feel about their chances going into the SB's against the Redskins & Cowboys (X2)?

Any fan that came up to Marv Levy and said please don't go to the Superbowl may have mental issues where they can't deal with a big loss. Thats like saying I'm not going to take that six figure job because I might lose it. Or, no way I'm gonna marry the girl of my dreams because it might not work out. In reality the potential loss might be leaving a more stable lower paying job or risking spending years with a lady that gets wasted.....so risk reward may be considered......but if you lose the bowl....it's only a game. A more accurate comparison would be someone handing you a mega millions lottery ticket for free.....you decline because you can't stand the thought of not winning. There is no sane logic for seriously telling a coach not to go to the dance.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:21 PM, GRHater69 said:

We lost the first SB because of Andre Reed.....period. After the safety if he didn't hear Myron Guyton's footsteps and held on to the ball for a critical 3rd down conversion we go in and score. That would have taken the Giants out of their gameplan and forced them to throw more which would have unleashed Bruce and Biscuit. To me the whole game swung on that series. We get 2 pts. on the safety, and then another 7. That's 9 points when we already had the lead.

 

 

That was a critical play, but the 3rd and 13 (fixed) to Mark Ingram, where no less than 7 Bills failed to tackle him, sealed our fate

Edited July 30, 2018 by Freddie's Dead

[Buffalo Boy]

9 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

By the 92 season, as a fan, did you not want the Bill's to get back to the SB? Mainly because you knew they were unlikely to beat the 49ers or Cowboys, and it was too tough to take? I know it sounds crazy. But Marv Levy said fans would come up to him and plead that they not get back to the SB. Mostly because they didn't have a great shot of winning, and they ( Fans) couldn't deal with more dissapointments.

 

Furthermore, how did you feel about their chances going into the SB's against the Redskins & Cowboys (X2)?

     I wanted them to get back to the SB every year. The year we played the Titans we would have gotten back if we hadn’t been screwed on that call. Not sure we would have beaten the Rams but I wanted it and was pissed at the time!!!

     Our Oline was shot for Washington and that was a ROUGH game to watch.

     I firmly believed we would beat the Cowboys in the first matchup and remember being stunned as that debacle unfolded. The thing about the Kelly led Bills is they would often have games where they just didn’t show up, screw off for 50+ minutes and then pull it out. I’m not saying they quit but at a certain point they were being toyed with and it was embarrassing ?

      The second game I went into with my eyes open and felt good to start but once the shoe started to drop in the third quarter.... oooofff.

[oldmanfan]

They should have won the first one but Parcells and Belichick way out coached our guys.  The other three they lost to much better teams.

[Dr. K]

10 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Well they did shoot themselves in the foot in Miami against the G I Ants......going out and partying until the wee hours didn't help their cause at all.  Thurman showed up......had Norwide made that kick and lets face it the dude was $$MONEY$$ all season we would all be singing a diff tune.....dems da breaks.  I liked the fact the Bills kept showing up....it was awesome to say yup MY team is back in the SB and YOURS isn't!!!

This is not true. Norwood missed a LOT of kicks, crucial ones, during the season, but the team covered for him. Look at that Denver game the Bills came back to win in the fourth quarter. Norwood missed TWO extra points in situations that theoretically could have cost them the game except the defense bailed them out with turnovers and touchdowns. 

[Another Fan]

When I think about it and after reading this thread, I don't know how much better those Cowboys teams were than the Bills.  Super Bowl 27 we were still within striking distance to start the 4th, and then Super Bowl 28 we were dominating until the Thurman fumble.  In Super Bowl 27 and the second half of Super Bowl 28 we just played some really ugly football. 

 

Also add in to the mix we beat the Cowboys in Dallas in the regular season in 1993 and just a few years later in Buffalo in 1996.

 

I think we are still the last Super Bowl losers to make it back the next season, never mind three times in a row.  That's gotta show some resiliency. 

[Augie]

9 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

You hit the nail right on the head Augie!

 

We were entirely outcoached.  Parcells, Gibbs, & Johnson all outcoached us.  Some of that evidence can clearly be seen in how the Cowboys came out of the locker room contrasted with how our Bills emerged.  They came out fist-pumping, Bruce came out walking, looking at the field, helmet in hand.  

 

While those guys were in the locker room strategizing and throwing chairs (literally), Marv was (literally) reading Hemmingway quotes.  

 

Swap coaches and we have 3 championships.  

 

Marv was a good but not a great coach.  He was clearly bested in all four SBs.  That Giants SB shouldn't even have been close, we easily had the better team, particularly on offense.  

 

Having said that, to the OP, I don't ever recall thinking to myself that I didn't want us to go back to another SB nor do I recall any Bills fan at the time expressing such nonsense.  

 

We seemed to think some of the points we scored against the Raiders would carry over to the SB. Sorry, guys! New game! You have too show up to win it! 

[Green Lightning]

9 hours ago, #34fan said:

I always wanted to go back... -ALWAYS,

Of course. And if if wasn't for a BS kickoff return we could have done it again!

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

They should have won the first one but Parcells and Belichick way out coached our guys.  The other three they lost to much better teams.

This “ outcoached”line of thinking is often cited as fact, but I don’t believe BP or BB made a tackle that day or made the Bills defenders miss so many.The late Bill Walsh opined that the Bills lost on clock management during the final drive, a fair point without preconceived notions of the Bills superiority.  One thing for sure ( as you imply here) is that the Bills and Giants were far more evenly matched than most Bills fans would admit. Their late season game at NY showed this. While both teams lost their starting QB in that game, it still was a down to the wire win for the Bills. If any NFC team was built to sustain an injury to their starting QB, it was the G Men. They disposed of the defending SB champ fortyniners on the road and turned it into a low scoring slugfest. They also knocked Montana out in the process. We as fans were on a high after the blowout of the Raiders, but the Giants style was the perfect antidote to the no huddle fast break Bills. Sure, there were some head scratching decisions made by the Bills staff that day ( Thurman’s lack of carries being the main one) but the game was way more of a physical undressing of the Bills than a coaching chess match. The Bills defense took one on the chin in SB XXV. It was no surprise that they coveted Ted Washington out of Louisville in the ‘91 draft. Polian waited it out and missed out on Washington by just one pick when he went to SF. Perhaps that draft choice would have helped the Bills win one of those next three Superbowls.