Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

[Jay_Fixit]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:38 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed but if Mahomes is a stud and Allen isn’t, it wasn’t worth it.  

Mahomes won’t be a stud.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

• In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
• In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

2 things

 

So you think you know which of these qbs is gonna bust?   Based on what?   Why is your resume not into a NFL team?

 

second

 

We DO in fact have one of the best secondaries in the league

[BurpleBull]

14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Ah, McDermott? Still way too early to say that he isn't good at evaluating guys on the offense. As you point out, Dawkins so far at least seems like a great pickup, Peterman has been good so far for a fifth-rounder and Zay Jones hasn't done enough as a 2nd rounder, but it's way too early to count out a 2nd year WR.

 

Just doesn't make any sense at all to say that he can't evaluate offensive talent. The worst you could say is that he has spent few resources on the offense and that he would get an incomplete because it's too early to count out anyone yet. And Dawkins looks like a great pick.

 

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

[3rdand12]

11 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

sounds trite , but Rome was not built on a Sunday in the fall.
McBeanes via McDermott had a vision that Defense was the first priority as it was Sean's area of expertise i might guess. I think this seasons work solidified my opinion.
Even though they have made some efforts to bolster the Offense over two seasons , it remains incomplete. And that could be an understatement  : )
Long row to hoe building this team. I think the defense is formidable and will competitive at the top level with this years additions. albeit an never ending work in progress.
Offense is surely trailing.
I respect the decision for what it is.

 Good post Burple

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

 

...just some OTAG "senior moment yap" but I'll try it anyway.....CERTAINLY McD's background is defense.....but why would Daboll accept the OC job if he knew the offense would play "second fiddle" personnel wise and focus wise as part of the overall 'winning plan"?.....where the hell are we going if the premise is the "D" will do all of the heavy lifting and perhaps the offense can kick the winning FG in a 10-7 "barn burner"?....no way in hell I'd take the OC job...

[Green Lightning]

7 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

Then it would be Groy @ Guard and Bodine @ Center in my humble opinion based upon their individual experiences

[Alphadawg7]

On 7/2/2018 at 4:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games in college than Rosen.

 

Hence why injury isnt the reason we passed on Rosen...him being a deuche causing coach-ability and leadership questions is why SEVERAL teams passed on him.  Even the team that finally drafted him at 10 had their eye on Allen first.  

 

Time will tell who was right or wrong, but this injury narrative doesn't tell the accurate story of why he slid behind 3 other QBs and was never in consideration at #1 despite so many arm chair peeps here insisting he is the best QB in the class.  It factored in, and was from the season he didn't finish...but add in the character concerns, and it equates to teams looking at other prospects before him.  

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

2 things

 

So you think you know which of these qbs is gonna bust?   Based on what?   Why is your resume not into a NFL team?

 

second

 

We DO in fact have one of the best secondaries in the league

 

Again... why does someone have to work for an NFL team to have a view on who busts? The NFL isn't batting 100 itself. 

 

Last season our secondary certainly was one of the best. I was one of the few excited when EJ Gaines was considered a "throw in" on the Sammy trade. I knew he could play and be a really good fit in this defense. I think his loss does leave a small question mark. Vontae at his best was a better player than Gaines, no doubt, but he was a man corner first and foremost and you have the injury questions as well. I am optimistic that he can come in and play at a similar level and I think the corner we drafted has more physical ability (though clearly not the experience and scheme knowledge) of Leonard Johnson in the slot. Of all the areas to be worried about on this team the secondary is last on the list. It was a top 5 unit last year and hopefully it can be again. 

[Zerovoltz]

20 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

• In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
• In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

 

THIS.....is absolutely correct.  Think of the best DB of all time...you pick...Darrel Green, Ronnie Lott, Dieon Sanders......doesn't matter..pick that guy....then think of what QB you could expect to get in a trade for one of those guys.....Aaron Rodgers...no....how far down the list of QBs would you get before some team would say....yeah...Ok...we'll take your stud DB for our QB......you'd get pretty damn far down the list.....and you certainly couldn't get Mahomes for White.  or White and any combo of players and picks.  

 

 

[BurpleBull]

11 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...just some OTAG "senior moment yap" but I'll try it anyway.....CERTAINLY McD's background is defense.....but why would Daboll accept the OC job if he knew the offense would play "second fiddle" personnel wise and focus wise as part of the overall 'winning plan"?.....where the hell are we going if the premise is the "D" will do all of the heavy lifting and perhaps the offense can kick the winning FG in a 10-7 "barn burner"?....no way in hell I'd take the OC job...

I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BurpleBull said:

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

 

This is true but the 'Bama offense has more talent than most of the defenses it is facing. That will not be true of this Bills offense. I think our O is going to be pretty brutal to watch this year but people need to be patient and not race to run Daboll out of town.  I am one of the very few who feels Dennison got a bit of a raw deal.  The problem with our offensive is players not play calling.  I expect that upgrades on that side of the ball will be a priority for the next offseason but until then we will be trying to hold teams to 17 or fewer and eek out 20 for the win.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

24 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

 

.....great and fair assessment.....thanks bud.........

[Cripple Creek]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:13 AM, 3rdand12 said:

I feel Bills made an educated opinion to put themselves in position for QB.

 Manuel smelt of desperation and played out as such. I cheered him as well. But most of the world knew he was unlikely to succeed in Buffalo.

Bills could have picked higher or lower this past draft. Seems to me they were satisfied with the pick and how they got there.
Organized and planned. Tidy even. This is a different FO than the Nix Whaley show.

 And no, i do not know the power ball numbers, if i did i would not share them  LOL

The writing is in the snow. Allen is a bust. Jump on the trash train while there’s still room. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

[Dr. K]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:28 AM, BurpleBull said:

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

[gjv001]

Beane’s and the Bills lucky stars were shinning bright when Allen was available at 7.

[BurpleBull]

4 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

 

It's really hard for me to buy that he's as awful as he's made out to be. 

 

The guy played and started in every single game of his four seasons as a Bengal.  

 

When have you ever known a Bills player to be as bad as Bodine is said to be and kept around for four seasons, starting every single game?

 

Nobody Bills player comes to  my mind.

 

Remember Colin Brown?

 

Now that guy was horrible at LG at a time when the Bills were desperate for an upgrade and it didn't take long for the coaching staff to realize it.

 

Perhaps Bodine had naked pictures of the owner's wife and that could explain why he was kept around so long, being so bad.

[3rdand12]

11 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 A) I think McDermott wants to run a playclock-controlling styled offense, I believe it was his intention last season to control offense through the run, but still have the ability to make the big play and keep the clock moving with the pass, but under Rick Dennison, the pass part never came together and the run game caught on late.

 

B )Daboll got good production out of a program with a talented offense lacking a true QB and known more for its defense; Daboll's a younger offensive mind, likely more in tune with today's game, and perhaps more creative than Dennison.

 

C )Daboll hadn't had the opportunity to call plays since 2012, I think he would like to prove that he's grown as a coordinator since that time and showcase at the highest level that he brings more to the table, with the likes of Benjamin, Jones, Clay, and McCoy at his disposal than Dennison and others.

 

D )The offense may seem to be playing second fiddle to the defense, but perhaps the coaching staff feels that the pieces are already in place and a creative and competent offensive coordinator is what was needed most to put it all together, not bigger name acquisitions.

 

E ) If the Bills offense can come close to the same production of the Alabama offense last season under Daboll, then I don't think we'll have to worry about the 10-7, barn-burners.

some good points.

 A) yes and yes

 

B )Daboll and Saban

 and yes

 

C ) Absolutely !

 

 D )I think Daboll is part of the future state. This year might be part of an acclimation back into the NFL game.
Do not feel the pieces are in place yet. Just a starting point to develop and implement his system, and evaluate. 

 

E ) Thats a hopeful prediction refer to A )

F ) i expect an Offense that will find its groove after a couple games, but be limited by it's talent. and the QB's  (excepting Allen who will be sitting : )  may or may not be stop gap

that is no reason to hold back the rest of the Offensive development under Brian.

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is true but the 'Bama offense has more talent than most of the defenses it is facing. That will not be true of this Bills offense. I think our O is going to be pretty brutal to watch this year but people need to be patient and not race to run Daboll out of town.  I am one of the very few who feels Dennison got a bit of a raw deal.  The problem with our offensive is players not play calling.  I expect that upgrades on that side of the ball will be a priority for the next offseason but until then we will be trying to hold teams to 17 or fewer and eek out 20 for the win.  

this is a reasonable take.

 and please Folks  BE PATIENT.

if you need to drink more so be it. but no pitchforks after game two !!

10 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

The writing is in the snow. Allen is a bust. Jump on the trash train while there’s still room. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

well, then don't you eat that yellow snow.
 

I think the Train has already left the station. and i missed it gosh darnit !

5 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a huge Bengals fan and he says Bodine, for the number of starts he has had, is the worst center he has ever seen. 

Its a concern for sure ☹️

16 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

It's really hard for me to buy that he's as awful as he's made out to be. 

 

The guy played and started in every single game of his four seasons as a Bengal.  

 

When have you ever known a Bills player to be as bad as Bodine is said to be and kept around for four seasons, starting every single game?

 

Nobody Bills player comes to  my mind.

 

Remember Colin Brown?

 

Now that guy was horrible at LG at a time when the Bills were desperate for an upgrade and it didn't take long for the coaching staff to realize it.

 

Perhaps Bodine had naked pictures of the owner's wife and that could explain why he was kept around so long, being so bad.

 Jordan Mills comes to mind. and he looks to be the starter yet again....

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

 Jordan Mills comes to mind. and he looks to be the starter yet again....

 

Mills is actually a good comparison. Bodine might be the Jordan Mills of NFL centers. Almost all the other starting players in the league at that position are better than him but almost all the guys sitting on benches as depth are worse than him. That is why Mills remains a starting right tackle. At center I like to think in Groy we might have one of the exceptions to the bench rule but we shall see. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

There's going to be a lot of QB's to compare Allen to. Mahomes, Watson, and Rosen are all guys that we could've picked instead of him. Watson was having the best rookie season ever until his injury. 

 

Something that gets glossed over a lot, but the Star Lotulelei contract is absolutely terrible. 

 

I think a lot of people on here are willing to overlook questionable GM decisions because Beane ended the drought. I'm willing to be patient, but there's a lot he could've done differently. Time will tell 

[BurpleBull]

19 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

some good points.

 A) yes and yes

 

B )Daboll and Saban

 and yes

 

C ) Absolutely !

 

 D )I think Daboll is part of the future state. This year might be part of an acclimation back into the NFL game.
Do not feel the pieces are in place yet. Just a starting point to develop and implement his system, and evaluate. 

 

E ) Thats a hopeful prediction refer to A )

F ) i expect an Offense that will find its groove after a couple games, but be limited by it's talent. and the QB's  (excepting Allen who will be sitting : )  may or may not be stop gap

that is no reason to hold back the rest of the Offensive development under Brian.

this is a reasonable take.

 and please Folks  BE PATIENT.

if you need to drink more so be it. but no pitchforks after game two !!

well, then don't you eat that yellow snow.
 

I think the Train has already left the station. and i missed it gosh darnit !

Its a concern for sure ☹️

 Jordan Mills comes to mind. and he looks to be the starter yet again....

 

I agree 100%. I wasn't trying to suggest that the Bills are all squared away on offense heading into the future, but that the pieces in place are solid enough to get better production with a more creative and competent OC drawing up plays and calling the shots. 

 

I think eventually, sooner than much later, the Bills will add a game- breaking, game-changing offensive talent to the mix in the form of WR or RB.

 

I've got some recordings of Bills' games on discs and I'm going to watch one before the night's over, I'll see if I can pick up on the horribleness that is Jordan Mills.

 

I think I was in the minority, but that first year that Mills replaced Seantrel Henderson I believe it was, I thought he showed solid enough ability that warranted keeping him around for depth if nothing more.

 

He's no Peters, Glenn, or even Dawkins for that matter but he's not the Colin Brown of Bills' RT's either from what I've picked up.

 

Hiding the Colin Brown in you is a very hard thing to do.

[3rdand12]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Mills is actually a good comparison. Bodine might be the Jordan Mills of NFL centers. Almost all the other starting players in the league at that position are better than him but almost all the guys sitting on benches as depth are worse than him. That is why Mills remains a starting right tackle. At center I like to think in Groy we might have one of the exceptions to the bench rule but we shall see. 

I may be in the minority about Groy. But i sure liked when he spelled Woods. And surprised he never could not find a way to play RG vs Ducasse.

27 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

I agree 100%. I wasn't trying to suggest that the Bills are all squared away on offense heading into the future, but that the pieces in place are solid enough to get better production with a more creative and competent OC drawing up plays and calling the shots. 

 

I think eventually, sooner than much later, the Bills will add a game- breaking, game-changing offensive talent to the mix in the form of WR or RB.

 

I've got some recordings of Bills' games on discs and I'm going to watch one before the night's over, I'll see if I can pick up on the horribleness that is Jordan Mills.

 

I think I was in the minority, but that first year that Mills replaced Seantrel Henderson I believe it was, I thought he showed solid enough ability that warranted keeping him around for depth if nothing more.

 

He's no Peters, Glenn, or even Dawkins for that matter but he's not the Colin Brown of Bills' RT's either from what I've picked up.

 

Hiding the Colin Brown in you is a very hard thing to do.

I was fine with Mills as depth actually.

 in regard to Offense? I feel patience is needed this year. Expecting nothing much as far as player acquisitions. Likely working the new system and ironing it out, looking toward next season when the Bills will have enough money saved up to make some significant moves.

Hendy got sick. But their were FA players much better than Mills.
i may be incorrect about Jordan, but didn't he have some ties to Castillo...

 The sum of the parts is what an O line needs. looking forward to seeing the Bills recover reasonably from the Woods Richie setbacks. This year

[BB@Shooter]

On 7/2/2018 at 5:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games in college than Rosen.

Misleading. Allen got hurt in his 1st game and sat out the seson his sophomore year. He only missed 2 and a half games after that. And then came back and played in the bowl game to end his career. Fake news.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

Misleading. Allen got hurt in his 1st game and sat out the seson his sophomore year. He only missed 2 and a half games after that. And then came back and played in the bowl game to end his career. Fake news.

You make no sense.  The games Rosen missed but obviously, the game Allen missed doesn’t count.  How in the world does that make sense?

[BB@Shooter]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You make no sense.  The games Rosen missed but obviously, the game Allen missed doesn’t count.  How in the world does that make sense?

Allen only missed the 2nd half of the Air Force game, and then all of the Fresno and San Jose State game. Allen got hurt the 1st game of his sophomore season. And was out for the year. He got a medical redshirt for that year. So you can't count those games against him. I guess it comes down to how many games or plays did Rosen sit out due to injuries. So state how many games you think Rosen sat out? I guarantee you Allen sat out very few plays due to injury. And will also state he is much more durable than Rosen. I would have loved to see Rosen play behind the Wyoming line. He would have quit and joined the tennis team after the first game. For some lame reason you keep trying to infer that Rosen is more durable than Allen. At least that is the only reason I can think of why you would repeatedly post that same statement over and over. I guarantee you Allen is a hard man to bring down. Rosen is more refined as a qb, but Allen is improving daily.

[Kelly101]

On 7/2/2018 at 7:37 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean just because the guy’s a Bill and we want him to be great doesn’t mean we have to make up false narratives.  

 

 

It sounds like many more here are praying for him to fail, so they can be right. meh

typical of today's culture.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Kelly101

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Kelly101 said:

It sounds like many more here are praying for him to fail, so they can be right. meh

typical of today's culture.

 

That way of thinking seems to really exist, and it’s very sad. Hey, he wasn’t my first choice, or even my second, but he’s our guy and I’m just praying for the best. One thing I know is....I don’t know squat. Very few people here do. Sorry to break that news, but we have opinions, not the skill to do this for a living. (Some are MUCH better than most.) He’ll either pan out or he won’t. Even if they miss on Allen, I say keep the FO if they keep on the current trajectory. 

[Kelly101]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

That way of thinking seems to really exist, and it’s very sad. Hey, he wasn’t my first choice, or even my second, but he’s our guy and I’m just praying for the best. One thing I know is....I don’t know squat. Very few people here do. Sorry to break that news, but we have opinions, not the skill to do this for a living. (Some are MUCH better than most.) He’ll either pan out or he won’t. Even if they miss on Allen, I say keep the FO if they keep on the current trajectory. 

Same. I was neutral on the draft, but became a huge fan of JA seeing all the drooling haters.

 

[BurpleBull]

On 7/18/2018 at 7:26 AM, Nihilarian said:

The offensive line is an area where I think this FO feel surprisingly short in the draft and in free agency. Particularly when they just drafted a rookie QB and have a second year QB too.

I realize you can't fill every roster hole in one draft or offseason so I'm also hoping that this FO doesn't make the very same mistake that killed past regimes in the thinking that you can get by with later round picks for the offensive line. Buddy Nix and his lame idea that any tackle can play guard and any big body can play tackle.

 

It took Rex Ryan to see that the team needed upgrades at the offensive guard position so not only did he take a chance on Incognito when no other team would. That choice worked out well and the line would have been so much better had Ryan been able to sign undrafted FA La'el Collins who he wined and dined before he signed with Dallas. We all saw what a difference a pro bowl guard in Incognito can make to a team as he instantly helped make Woods and Glenn look so much better. 

 

BTW, Collins before the 2015 draft was graded as a possible top ten prospect, that is until it was announced he was to be questioned by the police about the shooting death of a woman he had a relationship with in the past. 

 

I'm still holding out hope that one day the Buffalo Bills with build a top offensive line like they had for their super bowl runs. Like they had for their 60's AFL championship wins. Like they basically had for every year they made the playoffs. Then again, I would really want lines like those 60 championship years in that every player was a pro bowler and even some were 1st team all pros. 

 

Stew Barber, Billy Shaw, Dave Behrman, Al Bemiller, Dick Hudson.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you don't even know what Daboll plans to do with the offense based on the current roster.

 

You don't know how run-heavy the Bills plan to be this upcoming season.

 

The Bills may feel like they have the type of players in place on the O-line that the offense can succeed behind until they really start committing to the offense.

 

If that's the case then there was no need for them to go crazy in FA or in the draft.

 

I really think people's take on the O-line being neglected and overly ordinary is way overblown.

 

The quality of the O-line should be judged primarily on production, not the names that it is comprised of.

 

I have this feeling that Russell Bodine will prove to be a better pickup than people believed him to be.

[GoodHands15]

On 7/2/2018 at 9:27 PM, I am the egg man said:

 

 

Here's a song for you:

 

 

 

Really just thought this was so positive that it should be reposted.

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills may feel like they have the type of players in place on the O-line that the offense can succeed behind until they really start committing to the offense.

 

If that's the case then there was no need for them to go crazy in FA or in the draft.

 

 

 

I wouldn’t even ask for a Christmas present if the O-line ends up being reliable enough to not have to be a focal point to address next off season.

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

But you don't even know what Daboll plans to do with the offense based on the current roster. You don't know how run-heavy the Bills plan to be this upcoming season.

The Bills may feel like they have the type of players in place on the O-line that the offense can succeed behind until they really start committing to the offense.If that's the case then there was no need for them to go crazy in FA or in the draft.

I really think people's take on the O-line being neglected and overly ordinary is way overblown.The quality of the O-line should be judged primarily on production, not the names that it is comprised of.

I have this feeling that Russell Bodine will prove to be a better pickup than people believed him to be.

2

I've been around long enough to know that you need quality starters in any position on the field. I've seen more than enough bad lines in the history of this franchise and of the 15 O-line players on the current roster, only Dion Dawkins is the single Bills player who strikes me as a player who can hold his own area. 

 

It's not OC Daboll who I'm worried about either as he is not the line coach or run game coordinator. My take is Daboll will start with a very run-heavy offense as that is what he did in Cleveland, Miami and KC along with his time at Alabama. It's more Juan Castillo who is the O line coach and run game coordinator that worries me. I was kinda surprised he survived the offseason.

 

The Bills brain trust might think that Incognito wasn't worth what they were paying him and that his play had dropped off a bit. That may be true but it also might have something to do with a rookie LT and a center with a neck problem. 

 

I'm not the only one who thinks the Bills line took a huge downturn after losing all pros Woods, Glenn, and Incognito.

29. Buffalo Bills

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Left Tackle: Dion Dawkins, 74.5 overall grade
Left Guard: Vladimir Ducasse, 75.5
Center: Russell Bodine, 46.8
Right Guard: John Miller, 39.1
Right Tackle: Jordan Mills, 65.7

2017 season-end rank: 7th (-22)

The Bills have about as much to replace talent-wise as any offensive line in the NFL. That’s what happens when you lose your top-three starters (LT Cordy Glenn, LG Richie Incognito, C Eric Wood) along your offensive line (although Glenn only played 275 snaps this past year). Outside of rookie Dion Dawkins – who performed admirably with a 74.5 overall grade as a rookie – there’s not much room for ‘upside’ among their potential starters

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2018.

 

If you still feel confident that the line will be okay go back and watch that week 11 Chargers game last year. The Bills play a myriad of really good defensive teams this year.

[BurpleBull]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:36 PM, 3rdand12 said:

I may be in the minority about Groy. But i sure liked when he spelled Woods. And surprised he never could not find a way to play RG vs Ducasse.

I was fine with Mills as depth actually.

 in regard to Offense? I feel patience is needed this year. Expecting nothing much as far as player acquisitions. Likely working the new system and ironing it out, looking toward next season when the Bills will have enough money saved up to make some significant moves.

Hendy got sick. But their were FA players much better than Mills.
i may be incorrect about Jordan, but didn't he have some ties to Castillo...

 The sum of the parts is what an O line needs. looking forward to seeing the Bills recover reasonably from the Woods Richie setbacks. This year

 

Yeah man, I just think it's an inaccurate assessment on your part.

 

I've held to the belief that Jordan Mills is a decent starting RT for a minute now, went back as promised and viewed game action of him and he's what I've held him to be all along pretty much.

 

Jordan Mills falls somewhere between serviceable and solid.

 

He's certainly not the god-awful RT he's typically made out to be.

 

 

[BurpleBull]

On 7/22/2018 at 12:15 AM, Nihilarian said:

I've been around long enough to know that you need quality starters in any position on the field. I've seen more than enough bad lines in the history of this franchise and of the 15 O-line players on the current roster, only Dion Dawkins is the single Bills player who strikes me as a player who can hold his own area. 

 

It's not OC Daboll who I'm worried about either as he is not the line coach or run game coordinator. My take is Daboll will start with a very run-heavy offense as that is what he did in Cleveland, Miami and KC along with his time at Alabama. It's more Juan Castillo who is the O line coach and run game coordinator that worries me. I was kinda surprised he survived the offseason.

 

The Bills brain trust might think that Incognito wasn't worth what they were paying him and that his play had dropped off a bit. That may be true but it also might have something to do with a rookie LT and a center with a neck problem. 

 

I'm not the only one who thinks the Bills line took a huge downturn after losing all pros Woods, Glenn, and Incognito.

29. Buffalo Bills

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Left Tackle: Dion Dawkins, 74.5 overall grade
Left Guard: Vladimir Ducasse, 75.5
Center: Russell Bodine, 46.8
Right Guard: John Miller, 39.1
Right Tackle: Jordan Mills, 65.7

2017 season-end rank: 7th (-22)

The Bills have about as much to replace talent-wise as any offensive line in the NFL. That’s what happens when you lose your top-three starters (LT Cordy Glenn, LG Richie Incognito, C Eric Wood) along your offensive line (although Glenn only played 275 snaps this past year). Outside of rookie Dion Dawkins – who performed admirably with a 74.5 overall grade as a rookie – there’s not much room for ‘upside’ among their potential starters

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2018.

 

If you still feel confident that the line will be okay go back and watch that week 11 Chargers game last year. The Bills play a myriad of really good defensive teams this year.

 

Dawkins needs to improve as a pass blocker, John Miller was solid as a rookie, Mills does a good job at holding his own for the most part and Ducasse has been decent himself.

 

PFF doesn't dictate the future, the future dictates to PFF. Keep in mind that after the 2015 season, PFF suggested that the Bills most likely had its franchise QB in Tyrod Taylor.

 

Sorry, but the Chargers game wasn't the litmus test for the O-line last season and I do know how much folks like to refer back that game when they want to undermine some part of the offensive unit.

 

The litmus test was the Bills O-line vs. the much more fierce Jaguars defensive line in the playoffs. 

 

The O-line passed the test.

 

However, the irony in your pointing out the departures of Wood and Incognito as reason why struggles on the O-line should be expected is that it was both Wood and Incognito who the Jags D-line had their against in that playoff game, with a defender splitting between both Incognito and Wood for a sack, with another defender beating Wood outright for a sack.

 

It's very possible that too much is being made about the departures and not enough credit is being given to the guys still here.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Dawkins needs to improve as a pass blocker, John Miller was solid as a rookie, Mills does a good job at holding his own for the most part and Ducasse has been decent himself.

 

PFF doesn't dictate the future, the future dictates to PFF. Keep in mind that after the 2015 season, PFF suggested that the Bills most likely had its franchise QB in Tyrod Taylor.

 

Sorry, but the Chargers game wasn't the litmus test for the O-line last season and I do know how much folks like to refer back that game when they want to undermine some part of the offensive unit.

 

The litmus test was the Bills O-line vs. the much more fierce Jaguars defensive line in the playoffs. 

 

The O-line passed the test.

 

However, the irony in your pointing out the departures of Wood and Incognito as reason why struggles on the O-line should be expected is that it was both Wood and Incognito who the Jags D-line had their against in that playoff game, with a defender splitting between both Incognito and Wood for a sack, with another defender beating Wood outright for a sack.

 

It's very possible that too much is being made about the departures and not enough credit is being given to the guys still here.

 

 

 

Undermine some part of the unit? Joey Bosa had a field day against that line and stated at times they didn't even block him. 

 

The Jags game was the supposed litmus test in your view? The O line passed the test against Jacksonville? News flash!  Buffalo lost that game and only scored 3 points all game. The Jags defense sacked a very mobile running QB 2x, intercepted Bills QB's 2x and knocked Taylor out of the game. The Buffalo defense was the hero of that game holding the Jags to 10 pts.

 

Did they look as bad as they did against the Chargers, no! However, the Bills do get to play them again in Buffalo in week two of this year... with no Tyrod. Let's see how they do, shall we?

 

I'm not optimistic at all about this season and I hope it will open some eyes towards building a better line.

 

I look at this year's offensive lines players and liken what I see to the 2010 season's starting line. I wouldn't be surprised to see this year's team start 0-8 because that line won't be able to protect the pocket QB's in Peterman, McCarron. I also doubt the run game will work very well regardless of how often they attempt to run the ball. Naturally, the QB's and RB's will get the blame. 

 

@Ravens, Chargers, @Vikings, @Packers, Titans, @Texans, @Colts, Patriots. Tough first eight games and I'm hoping I'm wrong.

[SoTier]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:07 PM, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

There's going to be a lot of QB's to compare Allen to. Mahomes, Watson, and Rosen are all guys that we could've picked instead of him. Watson was having the best rookie season ever until his injury. 

 

Something that gets glossed over a lot, but the Star Lotulelei contract is absolutely terrible. 

 

I think a lot of people on here are willing to overlook questionable GM decisions because Beane ended the drought. I'm willing to be patient, but there's a lot he could've done differently. Time will tell 

 

Well said.     Beane and McDermott haven't done all that much but they've apparently been given blank checks to do whatever they want because the Bills stumbled to 9 wins and benefited from a major faux pas by the Baltimore defense.

 

On 7/20/2018 at 5:41 PM, Kelly101 said:

It sounds like many more here are praying for him to fail, so they can be right. meh

typical of today's culture.

 

Allen has the deck stacked against him coming to the Bills, a team that has no OL and no WR corps.  Add to that his lack of top quality coaching and relatively modest success against pretty poor competition on the college level, and he doesn't look like the horse to bet the rent on.  That's not "praying for him to fail", it's just not ignoring reality. 

 

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Undermine some part of the unit? Joey Bosa had a field day against that line and stated at times they didn't even block him. 

 

The Jags game was the supposed litmus test in your view? The O line passed the test against Jacksonville? News flash!  Buffalo lost that game and only scored 3 points all game. The Jags defense sacked a very mobile running QB 2x, intercepted Bills QB's 2x and knocked Taylor out of the game. The Buffalo defense was the hero of that game holding the Jags to 10 pts.

 

Did they look as bad as they did against the Chargers, no! However, the Bills do get to play them again in Buffalo in week two of this year... with no Tyrod. Let's see how they do, shall we?

 

I'm not optimistic at all about this season and I hope it will open some eyes towards building a better line.

 

I look at this year's offensive lines players and liken what I see to the 2010 season's starting line. I wouldn't be surprised to see this year's team start 0-8 because that line won't be able to protect the pocket QB's in Peterman, McCarron. I also doubt the run game will work very well regardless of how often they attempt to run the ball. Naturally, the QB's and RB's will get the blame. 

 

@Ravens, Chargers, @Vikings, @Packers, Titans, @Texans, @Colts, Patriots. Tough first eight games and I'm hoping I'm wrong.

 

Excellent post.    Too many Bills fans refuse to accept the fact that OL play is the key to having a successful offense.  Unfortunately, they're going to learn a hard lesson this coming season because the Bills OL is simply not good enough, which means that the Bills offense is going to pile up three-and-out, turn overs, very few TDs, and QB injuries.

Edited July 23, 2018 by SoTier

[Bill_with_it]

You are already insinuating he missed on Allen?

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, Bill_with_it said:

You are already insinuating he missed on Allen?

 

No.

 

But in the event that he did...

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, BurpleBull said:

 

No.

 

But in the event that he did...

i will not accept that Mills is anywhere near reliable i would never be able to take my off my right side after the snap. i read your note at work today. seems Ducasse graded out better as the season went on. Okay. i guess.

 

But Mills just plain cannot pass block period.

 

[BurpleBull]

4 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Undermine some part of the unit? Joey Bosa had a field day against that line and stated at times they didn't even block him. 

 

The Jags game was the supposed litmus test in your view? The O line passed the test against Jacksonville? News flash!  Buffalo lost that game and only scored 3 points all game. The Jags defense sacked a very mobile running QB 2x, intercepted Bills QB's 2x and knocked Taylor out of the game. The Buffalo defense was the hero of that game holding the Jags to 10 pts.

 

Did they look as bad as they did against the Chargers, no! However, the Bills do get to play them again in Buffalo in week two of this year... with no Tyrod. Let's see how they do, shall we?

 

I'm not optimistic at all about this season and I hope it will open some eyes towards building a better line.

 

I look at this year's offensive lines players and liken what I see to the 2010 season's starting line. I wouldn't be surprised to see this year's team start 0-8 because that line won't be able to protect the pocket QB's in Peterman, McCarron. I also doubt the run game will work very well regardless of how often they attempt to run the ball. Naturally, the QB's and RB's will get the blame. 

 

@Ravens, Chargers, @Vikings, @Packers, Titans, @Texans, @Colts, Patriots. Tough first eight games and I'm hoping I'm wrong.

 

The Bills returning O-linemen played admirably against the Jaguars D-line in the playoffs, where the intensity is ratcheted up another level. 

 

They all passed the test and against an O-line that comprised of all Pro-Bowlers and one former.

 

It was both Wood and Incognito whose struggles really stood out on certain plays.

 

But all and all the Bills O-line held its own collectively.

 

The Bills put together the longest single drive versus the Jags all season in that game, so it's not as though the Jags defense kicked the Bills around the field all game long.

 

The Bills only scored 3 because Tyrod Taylor missed what should have been a TD toss to O'Leary in the end zone and because of a questionable play call at the goal line.

 

Neither interception was due to pressure. Taylor's was due to a tipped pass and Peterman's from not driving into his throw and putting much behind his pass.

 

The tackle that knocked Taylor out of game was Dante Fowler's only tackle of the game, and it was a dirty play if you ask me.

 

Almost every bad play that stood out protection-wise, came at the hands of Eric Wood, meanwhile Jordan Mills did a good job at neutralizing Yannick Ngakoue for a good portion of the game.

Edited July 24, 2018 by BurpleBull

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills returning O-linemen played admirably against the Jaguars D-line in the playoffs, where the intensity is ratcheted up another level. 

 

They all passed the test and against an O-line that comprised of all Pro-Bowlers and one former.

 

It was both Wood and Incognito whose struggles really stood out on certain plays.

 

But all and all the Bills O-line held its own collectively.

 

The Bills put together the longest single drive versus the Jags all season in that game, so it's not as though the Jags defense kicked the Bills around the field all game long.

 

The Bills only scored 3 because Tyrod Taylor missed what should have been a TD toss to O'Leary in the end zone and because of a questionable play call at the goal line.

 

Neither interception was due to pressure. Taylor's was due to a tipped pass and Peterman's from not driving into his throw and putting much behind his pass.

 

The tackle that knocked Taylor out of game was Dante Fowler's only tackle of the game, and it was a dirty play if you ask me.

 

Almost every bad play that stood out protection-wise, came at the hands of Eric Wood, meanwhile Jordan Mills did a good job at neutralizing Yannick Ngakoue for a good portion of the game.

Regardless of our opinions here.
 

You have done an admirable job of presenting and defending your points !

 and maintaining the thread as it should be.

 very good form and kudos to you Burple

 well done  : )