Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Browns have some really good players at the skills positions and they are fairly deep there too...

 

Their offense could be pretty good if they can mesh well.

 

...agree....and Hugh seems to be confident in TT.....maybe he can help the kid get to the next level of development with good coaching in a new environment, with new scheme, etc....certainly do NOT wish the kid ill will.....but if the offense stalls and a viable, threatening passing game, ESPECIALLY DOWNFIELD is non-existent, wasting skill positions talent could lead to Mayfield...sooner rather than later.....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

At 1-31, it's a wonder one of the Dawg Pound hasn't already taken matters into their own hands.

 

Yes- it hard to understand what they are waiting for. I expect they are going to be one of the more talented rosters over the next few seasons with the picks and cap they’ve amassed 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

40 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Quick question:  for everyone that said “this isnt at all surprising,” how many of you were saying that months ago? Probably none.

 

Tyrod was the worst starting QB in the NFL and Mayfield was already a better QB than Tyrod. That was the narrative. And not only Mayfield. Any of the QBs drafted in the first round were an instant upgrade. 

 

But now, now its not surprising. Ridiculous. 

 

I bet there were a few (the loudest ones), but I always believed that Taylor was going to start in Cleveland regardless of who they drafted, including Darnold. There were no Lucks or Mannings in the draft for them at #1 for anyone to really think that starting the rookie from day one would be a no-brainer. 

 

People ragged on Taylor for his downside, but I think most rational people see the total package and what he does bring to the table. That includes almost 3 full years as a starting, serviceable NFL QB. 

[prissythecat]

4 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I guarantee once Mayfield gets a chance to throw the ball to Gordon and Landry, he's going to make it very hard to keep him on the bench.   

 

 

Usually when folks guarantee something  like this in sports,  it more likely than not doesn't come to pass

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, prissythecat said:

 

 

Usually when folks guarantee something  like this in sports,  it more likely than not doesn't come to pass

well if it doesn't happen you get to say you predicted it. 

[HappyDays]

You guys have to understand Kizer was beyond terrible last year. Coming out of college I thought he was EJ Manuel 2.0. Turns out he was even worse! He threw 22 interceptions to 11 TDs. Not only was his passer rating the lowest out of 32 starters, it was a full 9 points lower than #31. He completed less than 54% of his passes.

 

The Browns are in no rush to start a rookie. Kizer was a total disaster and Mayfield comes from a spread system with mostly wide open receivers and great protection. By all accounts Tyrod is looking very good in practice and he is trusting his receivers. I don't think Mayfield will see the field at all this year unless Tyrod gets injured. Their offense is going to be pretty good. I could easily see them having a top 10 scoring offense.

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which to me begs the question why didn't the Browns just get their coach this year?

 

 

Because the the owner was an idiot and would not keep his mouth shut - I believe if John Dorsey had been allowed to hire - Nagy would be coaching Cleveland rather than Chicago.  

 

Now they have Hue for the year and Todd Haley as the OC and probable heir apparent if they want an offensive coach.

 

It should be fun.

[Soda Popinski]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

You guys have to understand Kizer was beyond terrible last year. Coming out of college I thought he was EJ Manuel 2.0. Turns out he was even worse! He threw 22 interceptions to 11 TDs. Not only was his passer rating the lowest out of 32 starters, it was a full 9 points lower than #31. He completed less than 54% of his passes.

 

The Browns are in no rush to start a rookie. Kizer was a total disaster and Mayfield comes from a spread system with mostly wide open receivers and great protection. By all accounts Tyrod is looking very good in practice and he is trusting his receivers. I don't think Mayfield will see the field at all this year unless Tyrod gets injured. Their offense is going to be pretty good. I could easily see them having a top 10 scoring offense.

Wasn't Kizer Hue's hand picked QB?   That alone would have gotten him fired in my book.     I'm still wondering why Green Bay wanted him as a backup.  I mean Hundley is bad, but Kizer is worse, and I"m a ND fan

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

Sounds about right, I still don't get why Dorsey kept Hue around to begin with.   Maybe he's waiting for a guy from the Andy Reid tree to be available or looking to snag someone that he couldn't get this year.   

 

 

It is on the owner - I think he wanted to pluck Nagy from the tree.

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

It is on the owner - I think he wanted to pluck Nagy from the tree.

I would agree with you there.   Nagy would have been my choice as well.   But if I were Dorsey that would have been covered in my interview.  If I'm the GM I have final say on who my HC is and only I have that power.  You hire me to manage a team, keep your owner hands off and let me manage it. 

[Rochesterfan]

4 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

I would agree with you there.   Nagy would have been my choice as well.   But if I were Dorsey that would have been covered in my interview.  If I'm the GM I have final say on who my HC is and only I have that power.  You hire me to manage a team, keep your owner hands off and let me manage it. 

 

I agree and that may have been the talk before as he was hired, but then after the season the owner makes the statement Hue will be back and then doubled down on that during the playoffs.  

 

Sometimes things change if the person in power thinks it will reflect poorly on him and then others are left scrambling to make do and pick up the pieces.

[HappyDays]

Mayfield said on the ThomaHawk Show that Taylor has been an incredible mentor to him, and Mayfield is shocked that the Browns were able to get Taylor from the Bills for just a third-round draft pick.

 

“They traded a third-round pick to Tyrod just doesn’t make sense,” Mayfield said. “We got a lot more out of that than anybody else could. The guy that he is for this franchise, for all of our teammates is unbelievable. For me to watch him and learn him has been great. He sets the bar high, shows up, his work ethic, it’s a great situation for me to come into to have someone like that. It’s good for me.”

[Behindenemylines]

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

 

All of these quotes are so canned and contrived its rediculous.  What would he say?  That the guy he wants to replace is a total A$$hat and hasnt shown him squat?  Just pure stupidity  "What he means to this franchise..."  after a whopping few months he means that much?  Well if he means that much than youll never see the field Mayfield.

 

Cant wait for the season to begin so we can end the insanity and marketing pushes.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Behindenemylines said:

 

All of these quotes are so canned and contrived its rediculous.  What would he say?  That the guy he wants to replace is a total A$$hat and hasnt shown him squat?  Just pure stupidity  "What he means to this franchise..."  after a whopping few months he means that much?  Well if he means that much than youll never see the field Mayfield.

 

Cant wait for the season to begin so we can end the insanity and marketing pushes.

 

You can argue how great of a qb Tyrod is but he is a great dude.  

[Behindenemylines]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You can argue how great of a qb Tyrod is but he is a great dude.  

Seemed like it, and not saying he isnt.  If he was soley brought in to team BM how to be a good guy and good teammate then the Browns are in tons of trouble, as those are things that shouldt need to be taught at this level.  My point is that everyone knows BM will be starting sooner than later, so dont try to cover the real story with BS.  

 

 

[grb]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree....and Hugh seems to be confident in TT.....maybe he can help the kid get to the next level of development with good coaching in a new environment, with new scheme, etc....certainly do NOT wish the kid ill will.....but if the offense stalls and a viable, threatening passing game, ESPECIALLY DOWNFIELD is non-existent, wasting skill positions talent could lead to Mayfield...sooner rather than later.....

 

Especially downfield, huh?

 

When Taylor actually had a downfield receiver he was one of the best long-ball throwers in the NFL. It wasn't that long ago; you should remember. TT averaged eight yards an attempt in 2015, which is an exceptional number for any year, any quarterback, any team. Exactly when did he waste "skill position talent" as a Bill ?!? When Watkins sat half a season, then ran on a broken left foot when he did play? When his receivers were Matthews & Benjamin just shy of crutches, Zay like a deer in the headlights, Holmes & Tate as warm bodies, and Deonte Thompson starring as the "deep threat"?!? Yeah. Taylor really wasted a lot of "skill position talent" there.

 

Perhaps you've forgotten: Taylor only had Watkins and Woods together 15 games over two years. When he did?  63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints. Seems like Taylor didn't waste that "skill position talent" the limited time he had it on the field.

 

But - hey - entertaining thread. Probably lots of good quotes to bump once real games are being played.........

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by grb

[Big Gun]

32 minutes ago, grb said:

 

Especially downfield, huh?

 

When Taylor actually had a downfield receiver he was one of the best long-ball throwers in the NFL. It wasn't that long ago; you should remember. TT averaged eight yards an attempt in 2015, which is an exceptional number for any year, any quarterback, any team. Exactly when did he waste "skill position talent" as a Bill ?!? When Watkins sat half a season, then ran on a broken left foot when he did play? When his receivers were Matthews & Benjamin just shy of crutches, Zay like a deer in the headlights, Holmes & Tate as warm bodies, and Deonte Thompson starring as the "deep threat"?!? Yeah. Taylor really wasted a lot of "skill position talent" there.

 

Perhaps you've forgotten: Taylor only had Watkins and Woods together 15 games over two years. When he did?  63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints. Seems like Taylor didn't waste that "skill position talent" the limited time he had it on the field.

 

But - hey - entertaining thread. Probably lots of good quotes to bump once real games are being played.........

 

yup, then the league figured him out. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Because the the owner was an idiot and would not keep his mouth shut - I believe if John Dorsey had been allowed to hire - Nagy would be coaching Cleveland rather than Chicago.  

 

Now they have Hue for the year and Todd Haley as the OC and probable heir apparent if they want an offensive coach.

 

It should be fun.

 

...if "Haley's Comet" is the heir apparent, Barea diarrhea ain't far behind......remember his HC stint in KC?.....fought with everybody...Gailey seems to be pretty well respected around here and the "Comet" kicked him to the curb......goes to Steelers and has a predicable "luvfest" with Big Ben.......could see the Browns' "Triple H Gang", a/k/a Haslam, Hugh & Haley forever cementing "mistake by the lake" in the Browns II lore.......

[Rochesterfan]

15 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...if "Haley's Comet" is the heir apparent, Barea diarrhea ain't far behind......remember his HC stint in KC?.....fought with everybody...Gailey seems to be pretty well respected around here and the "Comet" kicked him to the curb......goes to Steelers and has a predicable "luvfest" with Big Ben.......could see the Browns' "Triple H Gang", a/k/a Haslam, Hugh & Haley forever cementing "mistake by the lake" in the Browns II lore.......

 

 

Oh - I agree fully - I also think he and TT will not mesh real well as TT is more of a reactionary thrower and sort of free wheels the offense and my guess is that will not go over very well.

 

I just believe that Hue is very short lived and they are looking for a reason to kick him out and I believe Haley will get the job on an interim basis at some point this year. 

 

I also think Dorsey will want an offensive guy to lead the team and develop the QB - we will see how it all plays out - especially with hard knocks

[wppete]

I have a feeling Tyrod looks good at practice but when it’s time to let the ball rip during games he is fun shy. That’s why he is. It a Buffalo Bill. I think Baker will take over halfway threw the season. 

[xxxxxxxx]

12 hours ago, PeterGriffin said:

I think we've seen Tyrods ceiling 3 years ago and the league knows how to play him now regardless of which team he is on. 

 

I think the Browns right now will be happy with 150 yards and 1 TD zero ints opposed to 200 yards 1 TD and 3 ints. 

 

I do anticipate the Browns growing impatient with no or very minimal production from Tyrod and Mayfield will be put in sooner than later.

I think you might be underestimating Jarvis Landry and the effect that he could have on Tyrod's numbers. Dude has put up numbers with a revolving cast of QBs and if he develops chemistry with Tyrod, look out. Landry will probably account for at least 1000 yards in the passing game and given his age he is a legitimate candidate to break out and top 1500 yards this year. If Landry gets his, and he probably will, there will be fewer sub 150 yard games. If he gets hurt maybe we see Mayfield sooner than later, but Landry is a legit sleeper and could be one of the top wrs in the league next year.

Edited June 20, 2018 by MURPHD6

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, MURPHD6 said:

I think you might be underestimating Jarvis Landry and the effect that he could have on Tyrod's numbers. Dude has put up numbers with a revolving cast of QBs and if he develops chemistry with Tyrod, look out. Landry will probably account for at least 1000 yards in the passing game and given his age he is a legitimate candidate to break out and top 1500 yards this year. If Landry gets his, and he probably will, there will be fewer sub 150 yard games.

I would bet a ton of money on Landry never having a 1,500 season.  That would mean he would have like 300 catches. 

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

 

Interesting...

 

Yeah! My adblocker prevented the webpage from automatically playing video.  Or more precisely profootballtalk blocks me and that is exactly what I want. But if GM did not want him manhandles, why did he not just fire the 1-35 coach?

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

So what they are saying then is that Mayfield is incapable of throwing for more than 56 yards in a game?

 

You are from Canada so yards like dollars are always discounted but you do have better beer!

11 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

I guarantee once Mayfield gets a chance to throw the ball to Gordon and Landry, he's going to make it very hard to keep him on the bench.   

 

So you are saying Mayfield will not get a chance to throw to them in camp?

 

I hear the key to getting Gordon to catch is to tell him it is a big bag of weed.  He cannot get in trouble for smoking a football, right?

[YoloinOhio]

Uh oh someone made the haterz list!

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[xxxxxxxx]

57 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I would bet a ton of money on Landry never having a 1,500 season.  That would mean he would have like 300 catches. 

I would take that bet. He's only 25, had Jay Cutler and Tannehill throwing him the ball, and he's about to enter his prime with Mayfield waiting in the wings.He doesn't need 300 receptions to hit 1500 either, half that could do the job with a QB who throws a good deep ball. Dude has set records for production already, and he still has 3-4 seasons where he will be in his prime.

Edited June 20, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Punching Bag]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Uh oh someone made the haterz list!

 

 

 

 

And page (if it ever existed) is gone.

 

Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

We got the floor of Tyrod Taylor the past two seasons.    

 

Fortunately the floor was rarely turning the ball over.

 

He'll never be a franchise QB but put talent around him and he turns into a catalyst for big offensive production. 

 

There are some dudes in that Cleveland WR corps and nice stable of RB's.........I expect that offense will be fun to watch.

 

 

 

 

[peterpan]

Im shocked!!!! (not)

[The Red King]

36 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Uh oh someone made the haterz list!

 

 

 

Well, dayum.  Check and mate, if this is legit.

[Punching Bag]

24 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Well, dayum.  Check and mate, if this is legit.

Well IF it was legit it is gone.

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Well IF it was legit it is gone.

What is gone?

[Punching Bag]

19 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

What is gone?

When I click link I get message 'Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!' as I pasted.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

When I click link I get message 'Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!' as I pasted.

The link is to the same story as the OP. It’s just a RT of the story from Evan Silva that Cowherd replied to, and then Baker responded. 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

6 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Seemed like it, and not saying he isnt.  If he was soley brought in to team BM how to be a good guy and good teammate then the Browns are in tons of trouble, as those are things that shouldt need to be taught at this level.  My point is that everyone knows BM will be starting sooner than later, so dont try to cover the real story with BS.  

 

 

There are ways to say this guy is a good teammate or good mentor or has helped me so much, and then there is football-washing that Mayfield just performed. That, to me, says TT really went far beyond what he was expected to do, kinda like Mayfield went far beyond what he was expected to say.

[grb]

6 hours ago, PeterGriffin said:

yup, then the league figured him out. 

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence.

 

The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right?

 

But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh?

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

 

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, grb said:

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence.

 

The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right?

 

But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh?

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

 

Better yet: who tf cares about Cleveland’s bridge QB? 

[Lfod]

43 minutes ago, grb said:

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence.

 

The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right?

 

But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh?

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

 

I don't think Tyrod was a disaster. I don't think other people really feel Tyrod was that bad. They just pushing buttons. Tyrod is definitely a guy that can makes plays. If he can some how turn it up and make more plays he would definitely be a guy that you want for QB. 

 

It could be his surrounding cast was the fault. It may be that defensive coordinators might have figured him out. It might just be Rick Dennison was that terrible. I just know that at times the offense got shut down. A few times it was shut down entire games. 

 

So yes in games with Tyrod at QB exciting things happen. At times he can make it work. I think next season will just be more evidence to what he really is. A guy stalled out by circumstances or a guy who can't elevate or be deceptive in his game and was figured out by the NFL. 

 

I've already mentioned before that I take McDermotts side. It won't feel as good if somehow Tyrod turns up. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Lfod

[Richard Noggin]

22 hours ago, Lfod said:

I have questions about Tyrod that I don't feel are answered completely. I have a good idea but I still have some doubts about my feelings on him. This season should secure everything and put it to rest for me personally. 

 

I am rooting against Tyrod. I hope he struggles to score points in Cleveland. I hope he is benched before the end of the season. I don't want to regret my team letting him go. I don't want him to out perform what my team has for QB and make me feel like letting him go was the wrong choice. I don't want to miss him as my QB. 

 

I don't want to sit through the endless debate because I won't be able to not participate. It is addictive. At least he was traded to the Browns so I think I'll get my way. I think it will take a miracle for that nightmare to happen. 

This is an incredibly brave confession. I, too, believe this malice lurks in the hearts of many Bills fans, though they are loath to admit it. 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, grb said:

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence.

 

The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right?

 

But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh?

 

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

 

 

You deal too much in absolutes.  Where did I say Buffalo had a good receiver corp?  Where did I say they were open every play...or most plays...or half the plays?  But the fact is, there were still a number of plays he had open receivers and never pulled the trigger.  With this corp of receivers I could wholley understand being cautious...but Tyrod took that too far.  Your reply makes it clear though, that you really didn't read what I typed.  Rather, you skimmed it, decided I was a Tyrod detractor, and reacted accordingly.  What you claimed I said/believed was utterly and completely false.  Please read my replies fully going forward.  Thank you.