Offensive Scheme

[CEN-CAL17]

Does anyone else feel as if we will be going to a New England style offense that emphasizes route running, quick hitters and getting the ball out quick on timing based routes.

 

It was mentioned Josh Allen has a quick release compared to Tom Brady.  It was said even if the accuracy isn’t there, because of the speed of the throw it allows less opportunity for defenders to break on a poorly thrown ball. The Bills have a handful of slot style WRs, a possession WR.

 

Everyone wanted that 4.3 WR yesterday. He never came. How successful was Brandon Cooks for New England? They prefer the Edelman, Amendola, Hogan precise route runners.

 

Bills have a huge Red Zone threat and a possession style WR who can box out defenders and a bunch of precision route runners.

 

Ray Ray and Austin Proehl says it all. Add Zay, Kerley and Streater. Even Reilly is a solid route runner.

 

Call me crazy but I think we are going to see a New England offense that doesn’t look for the big play vs get the ball out quickly with a lot of moving parts.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by 1ZAYDAY1

[LeGOATski]

Allen's release is extremely quick.

 

If what you suggest is true, Allen will need to make a mental leap towards a more conservative mindset. One thing Allen constantly struggled with at Wyoming: not taking what the defense gave him.

 

He's always looking for the home run and often won't even throw the ball out of bounds when the play is dead.

 

Give him some time to learn this before starting him.

[billspro]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Allen's release is extremely quick.

 

If what you suggest is true, Allen will need to make a mental leap towards a more conservative mindset. One thing Allen constantly struggled with at Wyoming: not taking what the defense gave him.

 

He's always looking for the home run and often won't even throw the ball out of bounds when the play is dead.

 

Give him some time to learn this before starting him.

 

I agree he was always looking for the big play. I think playing with guys like McCoy and Clay he will be more willing to take the check down because they have YAC ability. His teammates at Wyoming didn’t have that.

[bills11]

28 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Does anyone else feel as if we will be going to a New England style offense that emphasizes route running, quick hitters and getting the ball out quick on timing based routes.

 

It was mentioned Josh Allen has a quick release compared to Tom Brady.  It was said even if the accuracy isn’t there, because of the speed of the throw it allows less opportunity for defenders to break on a poorly thrown ball. The Bills have a handful of slot style WRs, a possession WR.

 

Everyone wanted that 4.3 WR yesterday. He never came. How successful was Brandon Cooks for New England? They prefer the Edelman, Amendola, Hogan precise route runners.

 

Bills have a huge Red Zone threat and a possession style WR who can box out defenders and a bunch of precision route runners.

 

Ray Ray and Austin Proehl says it all. Add Zay, Kerley and Streater. Even Reilly is a solid route runner.

 

Call me crazy but I think we are going to see a New England offense that doesn’t look for the big play vs get the ball out quickly with a lot of moving parts.

 

 

 

Not necessarily..the beauty of the Earnhardt Perkins scheme is its versatility ....I think daboll will run whatever scheme fits our personnel..at Bama last year he called alot of rpos..and alot more vertical shots than McDaniels calls in ne at this time .

[oldmanfan]

I agree.  It will fit McCarron well.  And eventually Allen.

[bills11]

8 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Allen's release is extremely quick.

 

If what you suggest is true, Allen will need to make a mental leap towards a more conservative mindset. One thing Allen constantly struggled with at Wyoming: not taking what the defense gave him.

 

He's always looking for the home run and often won't even throw the ball out of bounds when the play is dead.

 

Give him some time to learn this before starting him.

That's a good thing though..I think you can teach an aggressive qb to be more patient but I've never seen a safe checkdown artist be willing to attempt those more difficult throws 

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

I agree he was always looking for the big play. I think playing with guys like McCoy and Clay he will be more willing to take the check down because they have YAC ability. His teammates at Wyoming didn’t have that.

His teammates at Wyoming didn't have home run ability, either.

 

They were able to get open plenty of times when Allen ignored them because he wanted to make a certain throw despite the coverage dictating otherwise.

 

A positive spin we can put on this is that Allen's inspiration ones from Favre. He quoted Favre as saying "touchdowns first."

2 minutes ago, bills11 said:

That's a good thing though..I think you can teach an aggressive qb to be more patient but I've never seen a safe checkdown artist be willing to attempt those more difficult throws 

Another positive spin you can put on it, I guess.

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, bills11 said:

That's a good thing though..I think you can teach an aggressive qb to be more patient but I've never seen a safe checkdown artist be willing to attempt those more difficult throws 

Good point. A reluctant passer of the football  ( Tyrod is the king of this) usually stays reluctant. 

[peterpan]

See I think that this makes no sense.    Josh Allen is not a quick decision, timing passer.  He is a deep ball, deep out, scramble in the pocket type guy.  With these two draft picks and the Kerley signing we now have three short little speedy guys.  

 

So why would we square peg him into a round hole???

 

Allen needs a vertical passing game more like the Steelers, not the Pats. He needs big targets that can compete for jump balls and inaccurate throws.  

 

The bills have had this problem across regimes; getting players who compliment each other.  Another example of this is us constantly jump back and forth between power run game and zone blocking.  

 

Ugh

[Boatdrinks]

Beane said that Dabolls scheme will depend on which QB they drafted. That makes all the sense in the world. Are they finished getting all the offensive players they need to run what he can do best? Probably not, but that isn't unexpected. This isn't a 15 minute makeover, it's a total rebuild. They probably can't get it all this season.  Two thirds of the roster has already been turned over since this time last year, there isn't anything else you can call it. Beane and Co are making sure that they will win or lose with their guys. Not the previous regime's. 

[Buffalo716]

I can’t see them drafting Allen and then playing some super conservative checkdown offense

 

that is the opposite of his game 

 

his is not made for 14 play drives... but for quick hitters

 

Allen said it himself,,, “Favre says TDs first “

[yungmack]

The essence of the Pats offense is a combination of rapid adjustment to the D once the play has begun, generally short passes quickly released before the D can do much about it using Gronk to stretch the coverage and, above all, extremely accurate throws by a QB who has never been identified as "strong-armed." In other words, the ideal QB to replicate it is Sam Darnold and the least likely QB to operate the Pats offense is Josh Allen.

[CEN-CAL17]

57 minutes ago, peterpan said:

See I think that this makes no sense.    Josh Allen is not a quick decision, timing passer.  He is a deep ball, deep out, scramble in the pocket type guy.  With these two draft picks and the Kerley signing we now have three short little speedy guys.  

 

So why would we square peg him into a round hole???

 

Allen needs a vertical passing game more like the Steelers, not the Pats. He needs big targets that can compete for jump balls and inaccurate throws.  

 

The bills have had this problem across regimes; getting players who compliment each other.  Another example of this is us constantly jump back and forth between power run game and zone blocking.  

 

Ugh

Nobody is excluding the deep post, 15 yd outs etc.... point is I see a lot more 3-5 yd digs, curls, outs and slants.... 70% of the routes ran in NE offense is taking what the defense gives you. Great route runners are always open at a specific time within a specific route.

 

No doubt they will take their shots deep, roll outs waggle style patterns. But I see a lot of Shotgun, catch set throw 2 second plays in the form of NE style. Based on WR strengths, QB quick release and ability to get the ball in the hands of those WRs quickly. 

[yungmack]

20 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Nobody is excluding the deep post, 15 yd outs etc.... point is I see a lot more 3-5 yd digs, curls, outs and slants.... 70% of the routes ran in NE offense is taking what the defense gives you. Great route runners are always open at a specific time within a specific route.

 

No doubt they will take their shots deep, roll outs waggle style patterns. But I see a lot of Shotgun, catch set throw 2 second plays in the form of NE style. Based on WR strengths, QB quick release and ability to get the ball in the hands of those WRs quickly. 

No way is Allen capable of this sort of play.

[Will-GM-for-food]

IIRC Beane said something in a past interview about drafting a guy who is scheme independent, because OC turnover can happen almost every year. I do expect the offense to be Pats-esque but to play more to Allen's strengths. It should open up the field a lot more.

[bills11]

1 hour ago, peterpan said:

See I think that this makes no sense.    Josh Allen is not a quick decision, timing passer.  He is a deep ball, deep out, scramble in the pocket type guy.  With these two draft picks and the Kerley signing we now have three short little speedy guys.  

 

So why would we square peg him into a round hole???

 

Allen needs a vertical passing game more like the Steelers, not the Pats. He needs big targets that can compete for jump balls and inaccurate throws.  

 

The bills have had this problem across regimes; getting players who compliment each other.  Another example of this is us constantly jump back and forth between power run game and zone blocking.  

 

Ugh

That's only the pats offence due to personnel though..did you forget 2007-09 everything was vertical when they had moss..and it was more vertical when they ran the two te set with Gronk and the murderer Hernandez ...the eardhart-perkins can be anything you want it to be the playbook has everything 

[GG]

11 minutes ago, yungmack said:

No way is Allen capable of this sort of play.

Are you saying that because you know for a fact he can't do it or because he's never been asked to do it

[peterpan]

33 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Nobody is excluding the deep post, 15 yd outs etc.... point is I see a lot more 3-5 yd digs, curls, outs and slants.... 70% of the routes ran in NE offense is taking what the defense gives you. Great route runners are always open at a specific time within a specific route.

 

No doubt they will take their shots deep, roll outs waggle style patterns. But I see a lot of Shotgun, catch set throw 2 second plays in the form of NE style. Based on WR strengths, QB quick release and ability to get the ball in the hands of those WRs quickly. 

I agree with you.  The WR additions do point to this type of offense. 

 

Problem is that type of offense is not Josh Allen's strength.  

 

Rosen was the perfect QB for the system you described.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Does anyone else feel as if we will be going to a New England style offense that emphasizes route running, quick hitters and getting the ball out quick on timing based routes.

 

It was mentioned Josh Allen has a quick release compared to Tom Brady.  It was said even if the accuracy isn’t there, because of the speed of the throw it allows less opportunity for defenders to break on a poorly thrown ball. The Bills have a handful of slot style WRs, a possession WR.

 

Everyone wanted that 4.3 WR yesterday. He never came. How successful was Brandon Cooks for New England? They prefer the Edelman, Amendola, Hogan precise route runners.

 

Bills have a huge Red Zone threat and a possession style WR who can box out defenders and a bunch of precision route runners.

 

Ray Ray and Austin Proehl says it all. Add Zay, Kerley and Streater. Even Reilly is a solid route runner.

 

Call me crazy but I think we are going to see a New England offense that doesn’t look for the big play vs get the ball out quickly with a lot of moving parts.

 

 

 

If the Bills run a quick tempo offense with Allen McBeane  will be fired within 2yrs. Allen needs to be in a vertical passing gm a Todd Haley or Bruce Arians style offense with heavy play action and a good running gm to sell those actions. If we try to put this kid in any other offense most likely he will fail.

[yungmack]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

If the Bills run a quick tempo offense with Allen McBeane  will be fired within 2yrs. Allen needs to be in a vertical passing gm a Todd Haley or Bruce Arians style offense with heavy play action and a good running gm to sell those actions. If we try to put this kid in any other offense most likely he will fail.

I think that's the only path to even reasonable success for Allen. Old school AFL QB play from the 70s, the old Al Davis obsession.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Nobody is excluding the deep post, 15 yd outs etc.... point is I see a lot more 3-5 yd digs, curls, outs and slants.... 70% of the routes ran in NE offense is taking what the defense gives you. Great route runners are always open at a specific time within a specific route.

 

No doubt they will take their shots deep, roll outs waggle style patterns. But I see a lot of Shotgun, catch set throw 2 second plays in the form of NE style. Based on WR strengths, QB quick release and ability to get the ball in the hands of those WRs quickly. 

 

Seeing what the defense is giving you and hitting the intermediate routes with precision and timing is not Allen's strength to date.  If that is what they wanted to run, they really should have gone after Rosen if they just couldn't shake the G-men off of #2 and Darnold.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, yungmack said:

The essence of the Pats offense is a combination of rapid adjustment to the D once the play has begun, generally short passes quickly released before the D can do much about it using Gronk to stretch the coverage and, above all, extremely accurate throws by a QB who has never been identified as "strong-armed." In other words, the ideal QB to replicate it is Sam Darnold and the least likely QB to operate the Pats offense is Josh Allen.

Ergo: the Bills will not be running a replication of the Patriots offense with Josh Allen. They will do what he is most suited to, as they have already indicated before the draft . 

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, peterpan said:

See I think that this makes no sense.    Josh Allen is not a quick decision, timing passer.  He is a deep ball, deep out, scramble in the pocket type guy.  With these two draft picks and the Kerley signing we now have three short little speedy guys.  

 

So why would we square peg him into a round hole???

 

Allen needs a vertical passing game more like the Steelers, not the Pats. He needs big targets that can compete for jump balls and inaccurate throws.  

 

The bills have had this problem across regimes; getting players who compliment each other.  Another example of this is us constantly jump back and forth between power run game and zone blocking.  

 

Ugh

They drafted the short little speedy guys for a reason.  And since you mentioned the Steelers Antonio Brown is 5'10 and arguably the best WR in the game.  Let McD and Beane work their plan.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, purple haze said:

They drafted the short little speedy guys for a reason.  And since you mentioned the Steelers Antonio Brown is 5'10 and arguably the best WR in the game.  Let McD and Beane work their plan.

I think those picks were more about where they were in the draft at that point. Maybe one of them can help out and be a role player. The prime spots for the type of WR they really need were the picks they traded in the two moves up. They'll have to look elsewhere. Who knows, if they had held onto #65 Martavis Bryant might be a Bill now. It's not a one year rebuild and those offensive pieces might not be added until later. There are still ways to add players post-draft. They couldn't make a needed WR appear out of thin air in the late rounds. 

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I can’t see them drafting Allen and then playing some super conservative checkdown offense

 

that is the opposite of his game 

 

his is not made for 14 play drives... but for quick hitters

 

Allen said it himself,,, “Favre says TDs first “

Idk.  Allen is money on the out and corner routes.  I think he will be very good at the seem route as well.  Those passing concepts fit his ability.  He is not going to be brady and kill the d with swing passes and checkdown he will push the ball down the field more.  

[CEN-CAL17]

Everybody is saying vertical game....

 

Where is the WRs that are stretching the defense???

 

Do we have WRs that can possibly get deep from time to time sure... but who is the burner 9 route only guy?

 

Who is that guy on NE? That’s my point. But but but “Allen has to throw it deep”.... ok to whom?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Idk.  Allen is money on the out and corner routes.  I think he will be very good at the seem route as well.  Those passing concepts fit his ability.  He is not going to be brady and kill the d with swing passes and checkdown he will push the ball down the field more.  

 

Corner routes are not short routes usually ,  typicality mid range. He does throw a great out route though which is exciting 

[Mat68]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Corner routes are not short routes usually ,  typicality mid range. He does throw a great out route though which is exciting 

Those are staple plays.  Brady normally goes to the the underneath guys more often. The option route with a post or corner on the same side are common pass designs for NE.  Imo Those will be deadly with Allen, but Allen will also take more risks down the field than Brady.  

[purple haze]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think those picks were more about where they were in the draft at that point. Maybe one of them can help out and be a role player. The prime spots for the type of WR they really need were the picks they traded in the two moves up. They'll have to look elsewhere. Who knows, if they had held onto #65 Martavis Bryant might be a Bill now. It's not a one year rebuild and those offensive pieces might not be added until later. There are still ways to add players post-draft. They couldn't make a needed WR appear out of thin air in the late rounds. 

True, but you never know where the difference maker will come from.  Antonio Brown was a 5th round pick too.  Nobody thought he would be all that he turned out to be.   Not saying it's likely, but it's possible.  It's possible Zay Jones greatly improves.  It's possible Benjamin stays healthy.  I'm keeping an open mind.  They might have what they need.  We'll see in a few months.

[yungmack]

19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Ergo: the Bills will not be running a replication of the Patriots offense with Josh Allen. They will do what he is most suited to, as they have already indicated before the draft . 

I was responding to the OP who wished to know if the Pats O would work with Allen. Seems we both agree it won't.

 

[Mat68]

With the drafting of Prohle, Ray Ray, to go with Kerley and Brandon Reilly I expect to see more involvement of the slot Wr in the offense.  The out breaking routes Allen is deadly accurate.  The option routes underneath will help credit easy throws.  

[TPS]

I doubt Allen starts day one, but I sure hope Daboll/McD practices a play where Allen comes in to throw a Hail Mary from their own 30-yard line. I won’t be surprised if there is a game where this situation comes into play. 

Sling it Josh!

[NewEraBills]

I've said it quite a bit, but this will be a run-heavy offense.  Running will be our key to success in 2018.

[ngbills]

26 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

With the drafting of Prohle, Ray Ray, to go with Kerley and Brandon Reilly I expect to see more involvement of the slot Wr in the offense.  The out breaking routes Allen is deadly accurate.  The option routes underneath will help credit easy throws.  

These guys likely are not on the roster...

[CEN-CAL17]

Bills lost Sammy Watkins and the deep ball with Tyrod struggled last year.

 

Bills have like 6 WRs who excel at the slot, route running and are like 4.5/4.6 guys... yet everyone thinks The best scheme is for Allen to Air it out, “cause that’s his style”...

 

His style will be to learn the offense and hit the open receiver. Being we have a 6’5” red zone threat and a bunch of slot guys I expect or would assume things will mirror NEs offense.

 

Nobody is answering the question of who our WR is that’s gonna stretch the field.... why do folks still think the offense that’s best for Allen is vertical? 

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

Does anyone else feel as if we will be going to a New England style offense that emphasizes route running, quick hitters and getting the ball out quick on timing based routes.

 

It was mentioned Josh Allen has a quick release compared to Tom Brady.  It was said even if the accuracy isn’t there, because of the speed of the throw it allows less opportunity for defenders to break on a poorly thrown ball. The Bills have a handful of slot style WRs, a possession WR.

 

Everyone wanted that 4.3 WR yesterday. He never came. How successful was Brandon Cooks for New England? They prefer the Edelman, Amendola, Hogan precise route runners.

 

Bills have a huge Red Zone threat and a possession style WR who can box out defenders and a bunch of precision route runners.

 

Ray Ray and Austin Proehl says it all. Add Zay, Kerley and Streater. Even Reilly is a solid route runner.

 

Call me crazy but I think we are going to see a New England offense that doesn’t look for the big play vs get the ball out quickly with a lot of moving parts.

 

 

 

We now run the same offense.

What makes this even more obvious than the fact that Daboll runs the Earnhardt Perkins offense is the 2 WR we picked fitting the BB profile.

 

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Because Allen is so much taller than Tyrod, I anticipate a lot of throws to our tight ends over the middle as well as quick hits on in routes to our slot receivers 

[swnybillsfan]

6 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Beane said that Dabolls scheme will depend on which QB they drafted. That makes all the sense in the world. Are they finished getting all the offensive players they need to run what he can do best? Probably not, but that isn't unexpected. This isn't a 15 minute makeover, it's a total rebuild. They probably can't get it all this season.  Two thirds of the roster has already been turned over since this time last year, there isn't anything else you can call it. Beane and Co are making sure that they will win or lose with their guys. Not the previous regime's. 

they are definitely implementing their system, with their guys. there is a certain make up they are looking for in their players. and i think most of the guys they have kept, and all of the guys they have picked, have this. last year and this year are the foundation and the frame work. next year, when we have all that cap room AND our full slate of draft picks (thanks to using this year's draft capital and saving next year's) i think we will be looking at a serious contender.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I can’t see them drafting Allen and then playing some super conservative checkdown offense

 

that is the opposite of his game 

 

his is not made for 14 play drives... but for quick hitters

 

Allen said it himself,,, “Favre says TDs first “

 

It's going to be fun watching this offense when it all comes together.

 

I'm curious if we will be using the Full Back in this offense?

 

 

[Domdab99]

12 hours ago, peterpan said:

 

 

The bills have had this problem across regimes; getting players who compliment each other.  Another example of this is us constantly jump back and forth between power run game and zone blocking.  

 

Ugh

 

Why do you think the players must tell each other nice things?