Beane not indicating Josh Allen will definitely redshirt

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

Beane doesn't get to annoit a player's status.  That is up to the HC.

 

Well, lucky for my point, both were weird about it last year so any comments from either this year are kind of taken with grain of salt until you see guys on the field 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, DonInBuffalo said:

If Allen starts week 1 he'll make history.  I saw a graphic, probably during draft TV coverage:

 

In the modern era, no team that drafted a QB in round 1, and made the playoffs the previous season has ever started that QB in week 1.

Wow - that’s a great stat

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Catch 22. If his supporting cast is bad, Allen isn't going to look good. He'll look like he did at Wyoming, which is why so many people hate him getting picked in the first place.

 

The best players should play. You will never convince me otherwise.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The best players should play. You will never convince me otherwise.

 

And people wonder why players bust.

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

And people wonder why players bust.

 

Let’s sit Shady this year while we are at until we make sure we have good guys blocking in front of him. 

 

Give me a break with this nonsense

Edited April 29, 2018 by Bangarang

[DallasMac]

I'm of the opinion that no matter what he needs to sit this year.  Let AJ start and bring in a vet if he gets hurt.  Josh needs the time to continue his footwork and make it consistent.  Make him wait which will make him work even harder to get that start next year.

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The best players should play. You will never convince me otherwise.

I think it depends on the player.  Some players you can just throw in and let them learn from their mistakes.  Other types are thrown in too early and make mistakes and lose their confidence.  Who knows what Allen is but I think there is no harm in waiting a season for him to start.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

well now....by this narrative Mr Allen would be brought in by game 6-7....which infers to me failure of likely AJ McCarron/Nathan Peterman...whomever is starter, so Josh Allen somehow is offered the starting job......wouldn't it matter WHY the other QBs failed and would they be throwing him to the wolves...I doubt highly Mr Allen will be a starter in 2018  I don't care how many losses the other 2 rack up tbh... if the line doesn't hold up do not I repeat DO NOT put him in there to be killed...just sayin.....2019 will be the optimal year in my opinion. .... 

I'm only saying that if he's clearly playing better in camp and preseason than the other two quarterbacks, you can't keep him on the bench, even if you would like to do so in an ideal world. Like coach McDermott said: "It wouldn't be fair to the other 52 guys".

All of that being said, the best possible scenario, in my opinion, would be McCarron or Peterman playing so well and winning enough games that Allen can't even get onto the field. That would be fantastic. But what if the Bills get off to a 2-5 start and the season looks lost? Wouldn't you rather get Allen live game reps than plod along to 4-12 behind AJ or Nate? 

The other thing that I always think: Aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was the last quarterback who sat a full season and went on to be good? I can't think of anybody. Sometimes, guys don't learn from the bench as well as they learn from live bullets flying.

[Boatdrinks]

I believe this would be different IF they had a seasoned vet like Bradford ( I know, injury prone) or even McCown , who they were interested in signing as well. McCarron is such an unknown, they simply can't hand him the job. It wouldn't be surprising if McCarron is more polished, and I'd expect him to be the choice early on. Mid season or so, that could change. 

[Lfod]

Saying "somehow" is the equivalent of "against all odds". You still want Allen to have the mindset that he has a shot to win the starting job for motivational reasons. It's motivation for all 3 QBs. 

 

It's the Bills culture now. Earn your right it's there if you take it. None of you will have it handed to you and you always will have competition. 

 

I could say to you that you might look smart if you "somehow" make a good post. How does that make you feel? 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Lfod

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I'm only saying that if he's clearly playing better in camp and preseason than the other two quarterbacks, you can't keep him on the bench, even if you would like to do so in an ideal world. Like coach McDermott said: "It wouldn't be fair to the other 52 guys".

All of that being said, the best possible scenario, in my opinion, would be McCarron or Peterman playing so well and winning enough games that Allen can't even get onto the field. That would be fantastic. But what if the Bills get off to a 2-5 start and the season looks lost? Wouldn't you rather get Allen live game reps than plod along to 4-12 behind AJ or Nate? 

The other thing that I always think: Aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was the last quarterback who sat a full season and went on to be good? I can't think of anybody. Sometimes, guys don't learn from the bench as well as they learn from live bullets flying.

I think he was the last one. If Mahomes succeeds, he will be the next. 

[Boatdrinks]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Catch 22. If his supporting cast is bad, Allen isn't going to look good. He'll look like he did at Wyoming, which is why so many people hate him getting picked in the first place.

And if he doesn't look good, he won't win the starting job. 

[Inigo Montoya]

2 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

I think the key word there is "somehow." Beane thinks it's unlikely.

 

 

 

I think it's just staying true to "The Process".  Every position on this team needs to be open to competition and may the best man win.  QB should be no different.  Having said that, I hope AJ wins the competition and Allen has some time to sit and develop before he starts.  I wouldn't mind if he sits the entire season...

[Just Joshin']

2 hours ago, Carter said:

Typical Bills. Trot him out there when he’s not ready and break him for the remainder of his career...

Not a good take......let them actually start Allen before you complain.

[Bangarang]

17 minutes ago, DallasMac said:

I think it depends on the player.  Some players you can just throw in and let them learn from their mistakes.  Other types are thrown in too early and make mistakes and lose their confidence.  Who knows what Allen is but I think there is no harm in waiting a season for him to start.

 

If he’s the best QB then I want him to play. If he loses his confidence so quickly then that’s not someone I’d want to be our starter very long

Edited April 29, 2018 by Bangarang

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Let’s sit Shady this year while we are at until we make sure we have good guys blocking in front of him. 

 

Give me a break with this nonsense

Hardest position to play and learn, and you want to just throw him in and see if he swims. Ding! Hot pockets!

[muppy]

28 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Let’s sit Shady this year while we are at until we make sure we have good guys blocking in front of him. 

 

Give me a break with this nonsense

Shady an experienced veteran vs a rookie QB from small school Wyoming in not a great analogy .. trust me I'd be thrilled if Allen completely beats out his 'Bridge" QB to become a starter in 2018 and subsequently succeeds.,...If he shows readiness and beats out the competition so be it.....could it be a disaster as what occurred with Nathan Peterman just last year throwing him in unprepared and not ready and what was an inferior offensive line Last year.....  And maybe that game  has given me doubts about throwing a rookie into soon.... just a thought....

Edited April 29, 2018 by muppy

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Hardest position to play and learn, and you want to just throw him in and see if he swims. Ding! Hot pockets!

 

Sitting the best player at the most important position should go over with the rest of the team who are there to win. Sorry team, we don’t think you’re good enough to play with Josh Allen. Sorry fans, we won’t be as good as we can be because people are scared our QB will make mistakes and cry. 

 

What if the experience starting his rookie year actually helps his development? No that cant possibly happen. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

People will read it not anything.   

 

Most NFL ready doesn’t mean he’s ready to play in the NFL.  

 

How much of what Beane said in the last month actually happened?

 

Like  — Tyrod will remain a part of the team

 

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, muppy said:

Shady an experienced veteran vs a rookie QB from small school Wyoming in not a great analogy .. trust me I'd be thrilled if Allen completely beats out his 'Bridge" QB to become a starter in 2018 and subsequently succeeds.,...If he shows readiness and beats out the competition so be it.....could it be a disaster as what occurred with Nathan Peterman just last year throwing him in unprepared and not ready...  And maybe that game  has given me doubts about throwing a rookie into soon.... just a thought....

 

If he’s clearly the best QB in camp and pre-season then he should start week 1. Saying he should sit until we get better weapons around him is something I don’t agree with. The best players should play and I’ll keep repeating that.

[PIZ]

22 minutes ago, Lfod said:

Saying "somehow" is the equivalent of "against all odds". You still want Allen to have the mindset that he has a shot to win the starting job for motivational reasons. It's motivation for all 3 QBs. 

 

It's the Bills culture now. Earn your right it's there if you take it. None of you will have it handed to you and you always will have competition. 

 

I could say to you that you might look smart if you "somehow" make a good post. How does that make you feel? 

 

Beane doesn't want to put any pressure on the kid.  That's what that is.

 

 

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I'm only saying that if he's clearly playing better in camp and preseason than the other two quarterbacks, you can't keep him on the bench, even if you would like to do so in an ideal world. Like coach McDermott said: "It wouldn't be fair to the other 52 guys".

All of that being said, the best possible scenario, in my opinion, would be McCarron or Peterman playing so well and winning enough games that Allen can't even get onto the field. That would be fantastic. But what if the Bills get off to a 2-5 start and the season looks lost? Wouldn't you rather get Allen live game reps than plod along to 4-12 behind AJ or Nate? 

The other thing that I always think: Aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was the last quarterback who sat a full season and went on to be good? I can't think of anybody. Sometimes, guys don't learn from the bench as well as they learn from live bullets flying.

 hahaha well Mr Logic that is the rub....I personally think that whichever QB wins the training camp competition will be the starter until/unless  there is an injury or absolutely dismal performance and then that guy may be pulled for the #2 and that guy is also trial by fire....we really have hardly any real time NFL game data on which to judge either AJ McCarron OR Peterman...(mulligan for that charger debacle Joey Bosa saying "They never blocked me" SMH anyway we don't know how any of them will perform in this new offensive scheme moving forward May the Best QB win  and stay healthy and succeed. we all want THAT. But to answer the question in red I do hate losing. but I'd hate also our rookie hope to be future franchise QB going in and it is disastrous due to he not being ready or the offensive line woefully inadequate...maybe he needs those flying bullets to progress and improve in his game but I Do NOT want another Andrew Luck situation on our hands.

Edited April 29, 2018 by muppy

[PIZ]

 

If Allen completed just 16 more passes he would have been at 62% and no one would be talking about his inaccuracy.

 

As far as starting, I don't think it will be difficult to beat out McCarron of Peterman.

 

 

 

 

[Lfod]

I think Tyrod will be benched for a rookie for the second time this season. No full redshirt year for Baker.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Lfod

[PromoTheRobot]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Sitting the best player at the most important position should go over with the rest of the team who are there to win. Sorry team, we don’t think you’re good enough to play with Josh Allen. Sorry fans, we won’t be as good as we can be because people are scared our QB will make mistakes and cry. 

 

What if the experience starting his rookie year actually helps his development? No that cant possibly happen. 

 

When he is the best player, he'll play. It's highly unlikely that's week 1.

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

If Allen completed just 16 more passes he would have been at 62% and no one would be talking about his inaccuracy.

 

As far as starting, I don't think it will be difficult to beat out McCarron of Peterman.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats what I was curious to see.... if you tighten in from first round to top 10 locker is a huge exception. 

[billrooter]

2 hours ago, No Cease Fires said:

Does anyone actually believe that Allen WON'T beat out AJ in camp? Unless they make a concerted effort to sit him out, the job is Josh's to lose. 

I don't think he beats out McCarron, you can't overstate experience in the league even if he didn't play much or just how green Allen is.

Edited April 29, 2018 by billrooter

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I think Tyrod will be benched for a rookie for the second time this season. No full redshirt year for Baker.

I was at a draft party last night with all Browns (and Bengals) fans. I told them I had no doubt Baker will beat out Tyrod. The question is whether they allow the rookie to start after what happened with kizer. Then think about how much they gave up for TT and how much they are paying him. 

[muppy]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

If he’s clearly the best QB in camp and pre-season then he should start week 1. Saying he should sit until we get better weapons around him is something I don’t agree with. The best players should play and I’ll keep repeating that.

I wouldn't call an adequate offensive line a "weapon" it's more armor but I'm  not going to quibble I know what you meant.....and I truly hope the new offensive line will Gel and protect whomever is back there...But it is a Big question mark to me  right now.....the thing is we don't really know what we ultimately have with ANY of the Qb's on the roster OR the line now either for that matter...this roster will still be  churning  until after  the June cuts... moving forward McCarron starting the season just seems to make more sense to me as he is supposedly the 'Bridge"..maybe HE's the Franchise guy and Then the Bills have a GREAT Problem to have haha instead of no proven QB's we have one and decent backup with Peterman, or HE shines this year.... and as far as Josh Allen is concerned  I  hope he has indeed fixed with Mr Palmers help issues with footwork and accuracy going into the season...It's exciting times a head :-D

[Lfod]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I was at a draft party last night with all Browns (and Bengals) fans. I told them I had no doubt Baker will beat out Tyrod. The question is whether they allow the rookie to start after what happened with kizer. Then think about how much they gave up for TT and how much they are paying him. 

I just think in terms of how much did Tyrod elevate the Bills w/l record when he was in Buffalo. I think twords the end of the season the Browns will be like meh lets see what Baker's got. 

[Bangarang]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

When he is the best player, he'll play. It's highly unlikely that's week 1.

 

My entire point is based on if he is the best QB in camp and preseason. If he isn’t then he obviously shouldn’t. Try and keep up sport

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

When he is the best player, he'll play. It's highly unlikely that's week 1.

 

Feeling high on McCarron or low on allen? 

 

Id suspect the gaps relatively small and ties go to the rookie generally. This will be a tough battle for McCarron - who hasn’t done toooo much in his opportunities 

[TigerJ]

Sure.  Why not let him compete?  I don't think the Bills feel any pressure to start Allen though.  If Peterman or McCarron starts and that drives Allen to work that much harder, that's not a bad thing.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

My entire point is based on if he is the best QB in camp and preseason. If he isn’t then he obviously shouldn’t. Try and keep up sport

Follow your own advice.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Unlike the other two most QB needy teams, Browns and Jets, the Bills did not announce a plan for their highly drafted rookie Qb to sit the first year.

 

 

Here’s an opportunity Josh..... go get it 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Feeling high on McCarron or low on allen? 

 

Id suspect the gaps relatively small and ties go to the rookie generally. This will be a tough battle for McCarron - who hasn’t done toooo much in his opportunities 

Neither. All I'm saying is the Bills would be wise not rushing him. McDermott said he's got a lot to learn, from footwork to reading defenses. He has to be prepared to play at the highest level. I doubt he achieves that by week 1.

 

It also matters how well his offensive teammates play. If it's a crap show, best to play McCarron rather than put pressure on Allen to carry the team. He's young. It won't hurt him to take it slow. 

[Doc Brown]

Unless our o-line outperforms expectations, there's no reason to put him in next season.  I wonder what David Carr thinks we should do?

[Mat68]

Why is it so difficult to believe Allen will beat out 2 average qbs?  Wentz was a project out of South Dakota St.  He did ok.  Allen out of the same system was more prolific a passer, took more chances down the field, and is a better athlete at similar points in their careers.  I would be surprised and a little dissapointed if Allen cant beat out Mccarron and Peterman.  

[Domdab99]

lol no one here knows when he'll be ready to play. 

 

But I do know that if I just traded up for a franchise QB, and that if Mitch Trubisky can start for the Bears after one full season of playing college ball, then I want Allen to get out there as soon as possible. Just like Wentz and Goff.

 

Unless he somehow ***** the bed, Josh Allen will be the starter week 1. Otherwise, what was the point of drafting him so high? 

[NoSaint]

49 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Neither. All I'm saying is the Bills would be wise not rushing him. McDermott said he's got a lot to learn, from footwork to reading defenses. He has to be prepared to play at the highest level. I doubt he achieves that by week 1.

 

It also matters how well his offensive teammates play. If it's a crap show, best to play McCarron rather than put pressure on Allen to carry the team. He's young. It won't hurt him to take it slow. 

 

So when you said if he’s the best player he will play you actually meant when it’s best for him to play he will. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

I am not so sure...AJ has been on the bench for the last five years being part of NFL games...He has enough game-day experience to understand how to play in the NFL.  I am sure he will get the nod over Allen unless Allen is lights out in TC or AJ is really so bad.

 

Yes, IF he plays lights out and AJ is really bad.

 

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm only saying that if he's clearly playing better in camp and preseason than the other two quarterbacks, you can't keep him on the bench, even if you would like to do so in an ideal world. Like coach McDermott said: "It wouldn't be fair to the other 52 guys".

All of that being said, the best possible scenario, in my opinion, would be McCarron or Peterman playing so well and winning enough games that Allen can't even get onto the field. That would be fantastic. But what if the Bills get off to a 2-5 start and the season looks lost? Wouldn't you rather get Allen live game reps than plod along to 4-12 behind AJ or Nate? 

The other thing that I always think: Aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was the last quarterback who sat a full season and went on to be good? I can't think of anybody. Sometimes, guys don't learn from the bench as well as they learn from live bullets flying.

 

I see it this way.  Training Camp is NFL football at 1/2 speed.  Succeeding in TC means a player can perform at that level.

Preseason will be shared by all the QB's.  If Allen is splitting time with AJ and Peterman is 3rd how much playing time will Josh get?

I would think about 6 quarters of football at best.  This is Preseason which is still only at 3/4 speed.  Defensives are not game planning and

especially not game planning for a rookie QB.  He will be playing, at times, against 2,3,4 stringers.  It is not even close to the real NFL.

 

The Bill's open up the regular season on the road against the Ravens.  That is an intense stadium with a good D.  It's a big stage for any rookie QB

but especially one coming out of Wyoming.  Bill's then play at home against LAC who have a killer D (ask Peterman).  Then 2 more on the road against

the Vikings and the Packers.

 

Unless Josh Allen has shown no issues whatsoever having him start those first 4 games could be suicidal.  Let AJ take the hit and we surely will see

what he is made of.  If we go 1-3 or 0-4 in those first 4 then nobody would blame McDermott for considering player Allen (if he looks ready).

 

EVERY evaluator has said Josh Allen will need time.  I would red shirt him for the first 4 games without blinking.  After that, a decision could be made.

I really think McDermott should consider this.

 

As a side note:  Nate Peterman was playing great in practice and he was given his shot.  An away game in LAC turned out to be a disaster.  We are hoping

the Bill's new QB will be here for the next 12-15 years.  Not starting a few games in his rookie season is not going to hurt him.  On the other hand, starting him against those

4 teams I mentioned could have a powerful negative effect.

 

IMO