Closest NFL comparison to Mason Rudolph... Tom Brady

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Well they are just wrong. My grade on Peterman was a bordlerline 7th / UDFA. He sucked as an NFL prospect. Rudolph is a significantly better prospect and some NFL.com person disagreeing changes my mind not one iota. 

 

The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. 

 

This guy is a 3-4 round pick. 

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

This is right where I'm at as well. I will trust the decision of McD and Beane is they decide to gamble or roll the dice on this kid.

 

Listen man I'm with you. I will support the team no matter what. I just don't understand how all of these scouts and journalist and draft analysts can be wrong on Rudolph and people on a message board are right. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. 

 

This guy is a 3-4 round pick. 

 

I disagree he sucks. I think his arm while no cannon is good enough, I think his footwork is okay though clearly he needs work under centre and I think the offense is the biggest concern but you have to test that when you have him in. 

 

And I have watched the film. 12 complete games. 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree he sucks. I think his arm while no cannon is good enough, I think his footwork is okay though clearly he needs work under centre and I think the offense is the biggest concern but you have to test that when you have him in. 

 

And I have watched the film. 12 complete games. 

 

Ok fair. You see an upside I don't see. But what about all of the draft experts and scouts etc.? The people who get paid to do this for a living.  Are you saying they are all wrong? 

[Real McClappy]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. 

 

This guy is a 3-4 round pick. 

 

Listen man I'm with you. I will support the team no matter what. I just don't understand how all of these scouts and journalist and draft analysts can be wrong on Rudolph and people on a message board are right. 

It's due to the Bottom line I highlighted below. 

BOTTOM LINE

 Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

[MrEpsYtown]

9 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

It's due to the Bottom line I highlighted below. 

BOTTOM LINE

 Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. 

 

What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

 

Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. 

 

 

Look, I'm not an expert. I'm a teacher and a high school football coach, been doing it 12 years. I watch a ton of film and sit in clinics with college coaches all of the time. I am no one special, but I know some things. 

 

I do know that I don't know more than general managers, scouts, NFL people. It's fun to chat about these things, but how people can think that all of these experts are wrong just doesn't make sense to me. How can everyone be wrong on Josh Allen, who we all hate here, and everyone also be wrong on Mason Rudolph, who we all love?

 

I mean, it's lunacy. Mason Rudolph=Tom Brady...don't you think someone in the NFL would have noticed this if it was true? I mean c'mon. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[Reed83HOF]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. 

 

What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

 

Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. 

Sounds like this guy to me:

 

Athletic passer with solid physical skills. 
Quickly sets up with good pass placement,

immediately gets the ball off on a three-step drop or easily
passes on the move.  Times the outs well, zips throws to the flanks or puts the ball in front of targets,

giving receivers a chance.  Goes to the safe underneath route if nothing else is

available.  Stands strong in the pocket and buys time for receivers

[mjt328]

It's not good when a prospect compares to Tom Brady.

 

The reason Brady was a 6th Round Pick was because there was literally nothing special about him in college.  He wasn't athletic.  He didn't have a strong arm.  He had a skinny frame.  He only showed moderate accuracy and decent ability to read defenses.  He was never dominant and spent most of his time in school on the bench. 

 

Brady became great because he drastically improved every single aspect of his game.  He didn't succeed despite having average accuracy.  He succeeded by becoming one of the most accurate QBs to ever play. 

 

Most prospects only make moderate improvements once they hit the pros... if they manage to make them at all.  Most prospects are like EJ Manuel.  The guy he was at Florida State was the guy we saw during his career in Buffalo. 

 

 

 

[Real McClappy]

21 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. 

 

What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

 

Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. 

 

 

Look, I'm not an expert. I'm a teacher and a high school football coach, been doing it 12 years. I watch a ton of film and sit in clinics with college coaches all of the time. I am no one special, but I know some things. 

 

I do know that I don't know more than general managers, scouts, NFL people. It's fun to chat about these things, but how people can think that all of these experts are wrong just doesn't make sense to me. How can everyone be wrong on Josh Allen, who we all hate here, and everyone also be wrong on Mason Rudolph, who we all love?

 

I mean, it's lunacy. Mason Rudolph=Tom Brady...don't you think someone in the NFL would have noticed this if it was true? I mean c'mon. 

It says can win not can't? 

The part I highlighted is the upside that makes him interesting. He seems to be getting better and better and no one truly knows his ceiling. How can anyone say average to below average starter when his ceiling is not defined?

 

Look, I'm not a Mason ball washer, he sits around 5th or 6th for me. You can't deny his upside.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Real McCoy

[Victory Formation]

Where would you guys rank Mason Rudolph if he was in the 2019 draft?

 

Unless somebody rises up my list, I think if Rudolph came out in 2019, only Drew Lock would go ahead of him.

Edited March 18, 2018 by NewDayBills

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

It says can win not can't? 

The part I highlighted is the upside that makes him interesting. He seems to be getting better and better and no one truly knows his ceiling. How can anyone say average to below average starter when his ceiling is not defined?

 

Look, I'm not a Mason ball washer, he sits around 5th or 6th for me. You can't deny his upside.

 

 

It says: Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. That means he can't win with precision and arm strength. 

 

So he is a downfield play action passer...he can't win with precision and arm strength. That means he's throwing bombs to outside , wide open receivers. That isn't winning football, at least it won't work in the NFL. 

 

I don't see the upside. Is the fifth or sixth best guy in this class? Sure. But he's a 3-4th round pick to me. 

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

It says: Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. That means he can't win with precision and arm strength. 

 

So he is a downfield play action passer...he can't win with precision and arm strength. That means he's throwing bombs to outside , wide open receivers. That isn't winning football, at least it won't work in the NFL. 

 

I don't see the upside. Is the fifth or sixth best guy in this class? Sure. But he's a 3-4th round pick to me. 

I respect your opinion man. I can see him going 2nd - 3rd, I have a feeling the Pats might try and snag him as well.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

I respect your opinion man. I can see him going 2nd - 3rd, I have a feeling the Pats might try and snag him as well.

Same here. I appreciate it. We can all agree to disagree for sure. 

 

I think it's possible there is a long wait. This draft reminds me of the Mariota-Winston draft. I can see 4-5 guys going pretty high, then a super long wait for the next tier. That year quarterbacks went 1-2 and the next guy went #75. I think Rudolph might be in for a long wait. I could see the Chargers, Pats, Steelers, people with older quarterbacks drafting the guy in the third. I just think with all of the free agents signed and 4 sure fire #1 picks, people aren't going to want to spend 2nd round picks on the next tier. There is too much positional talent in this draft. 

[Chicken Boo]

People will be quick to tell you how much Lamar Jackson has improved from year to year, but will completely ignore Rudolph's progression, when he is CLEARLY a better passer.

 

If the Bills stay put, I hope they take him at 22.  A year on the bench behind AJ and we could really have something special.

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Lance Zierlein says Christian Ponder. I think I'll go with him. 

 

He says: 

BOTTOM LINE

Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league.

 

I've heard this a few times as well and it's an awful comparison!  

 

You can draw similarities on arm strength, but that's where the comparison ends.   The two are nothing alike.

 

Ponder was always terrible, even in college.  Drove me nuts, Bills fans clamoring for him.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Chicken Boo

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Ok fair. You see an upside I don't see. But what about all of the draft experts and scouts etc.? The people who get paid to do this for a living.  Are you saying they are all wrong? 

 

Well they don't all hate him. But I have no problem with my opinion differing from the consensus. It has been plenty of times before. I have faith in my process sometimes I am wrong more often than not I am pretty close. I will have no problem holding my hands up if I am wrong. I do see his floor as a backup type... Matt Moore esque I just don't see that as the ceiling the way you obviously do. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by GunnerBill

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

People will be quick to tell you how much Lamar Jackson has improved from year to year, but will completely ignore Rudolph's progression, when he is CLEARLY a better passer.

 

If the Bills stay put, I hope they take him at 22.  A year on the bench behind AJ and we could really have something special.

 

The argument is always going to be that Jackson is a premiere athlete. He has ridiculous athletic upside, which is not the case with Rudolph. They are completely different entities. So Rudolph may be the better passer, but you have to look at the whole package. It awesome when an athlete like Jackson improves his passing ability because it shows he might be able to play quarterback,

 

When the 6-5 guy who runs a 4.9 does it, it really isn't a big deal. It's about upside and projection. 

[Real McClappy]

15 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Same here. I appreciate it. We can all agree to disagree for sure. 

 

I think it's possible there is a long wait. This draft reminds me of the Mariota-Winston draft. I can see 4-5 guys going pretty high, then a super long wait for the next tier. That year quarterbacks went 1-2 and the next guy went #75. I think Rudolph might be in for a long wait. I could see the Chargers, Pats, Steelers, people with older quarterbacks drafting the guy in the third. I just think with all of the free agents signed and 4 sure fire #1 picks, people aren't going to want to spend 2nd round picks on the next tier. There is too much positional talent in this draft. 

This is where I see him as well and prob would most benefit from sitting behind a Ben, Brady, Brees or Smith a couple years. The same also applies to J.Allen IMO.  I personally think we need a more sure fire option right now.  If we did say take Allen or Mason and try to plug them in right away we would most likely break them as they need some time to develop.  

 

I can't wait until 4/26 draft day...

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Real McCoy said:

This is where I see him as well and prob would most benefit from sitting behind a Ben, Brady, Brees or Smith a couple years. The same also applies to J.Allen IMO.  I personally think we need a more sure fire option right now.  If we did say take Allen or Mason and try to plug them in right away we would most likely break them as they need some time to develop.  

 

I can't wait until 4/26 draft day...

 

Yep. Some team is going to ruin Josh Allen by starting him too soon. It's going to be depressing and it is probably going to be the Jets. 

[Estelle Getty]

Get out of here w that TBrady talk. He is Patrick Ramsey 2.0, Blaine Gabbert 3.0

[Real McClappy]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Yep. Some team is going to ruin Josh Allen by starting him too soon. It's going to be depressing and it is probably going to be the Jets. 

LOL let the Jets fail then

In their defense they have a nice Bridge scenario for whomever they bring in. 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

LOL let the Jets fail then

In their defense they have a nice Bridge scenario for whomever they bring in. 

 

They are definitely going to blow it! Even their fans know it. They would have messed up Peyton Manning if he came out his junior year. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

watching all 6 I think they are flawed and all have nice upside Rosen to me has the most skills but the concussion thing give me pause .  Why not roll the dice at 21 with Rudolph or Jackson instead of giving up a ton to move up.  I honestly don't think if you watch all six perform you can say as they said in draft day " pro ready " 

Final point Baker played the best in college and now is 4th on most of the ranking I see 

[Mark80]

2 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I finally got around to watching Mason Rudolph and the parallels are jaw dropping. He looks like a Brady clone from every angle, strengths/weaknesses/physical stature and ability. I hate Brady, I’ve argued ad nauseum that he is a system QB. I’ve felt that Brady would have sucked under past Bills coaching regimes.

 

That said, the Bills now have DaBoll who you could consider a Bellicheck disciple. My bold prediction is that Rudolph lands on either the Bills or Patriots.

 

Before you call me crazy, check him out and observe the following:

1. Movement in the pocket. The similarity is uncanny, no other QB in the NFL manipulates the pocket like Brady. This was the first thing I noticed with Rudolph.

2. Vision and anticipation. He utilizes the entire field, finding receivers in the back of the endzone and all over the intermediate depths of the field.

3. Poise in the pocket and footwork.

4. Manipulating one-on-one matchups.  He is able to work defenders in one-on-ones with his receivers into poor leverage prior to the throw and then deliver the throw to the place that gives his receiver the best chance of catching it.

5. Usage of pump fakes and looking off the defense.

6. Varies his throws based on the skillsets of his receivers. For instance, he throws softer to guys with problematic hands.

7. Performed really well without very good receivers.

8. Works the officials for calls and skillfully draws PI calls.

 

His weaknesses mirror Brady. He doesn’t have top end arm strength and his accuracy can be spotty at times due to making anticipation based throws. Sometimes he lets the ball hang in the air a little too long. He is not a runner. His patience in the pocket can get the best of him on occasion.

 

He’s basically the same height and even has similar facial features, it is really eerie.

 

I assumed since many had him as the sixth best QB behind guys like Josh Allen and Jackson that he would be basically a guaranteed bust. Now I think he’ll wind up being the best QB in the class if he lands in the right system.

 

You are going to feel pretty stupid if you ever revisit this post a few years down the road.

[Troll Toll]

3 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

You are going to feel pretty stupid if you ever revisit this post a few years down the road.

 

Your post gives me deja vu from the old BBMB when I said the Bills should draft Russell Wilson in the first round.

[Big Turk]

Arm strength is the easiest thing to add when you go from college to pro...weight lifting regimens are far different in college than in the pros...

[H2o]

............ @ this thread

[JAMIEBUF12]

If he is a day two pick i am on board.we can take our time and actually develop a qb and not play him for a few years.who knows maybe aj develops also and 3 years from now a team gives the bills draft picks for rudolph or even a luke falk

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

sounds like JP Losman

 

...LMAO...he does have a championship ring (couldn't resist)?....go back and re-read the 2004 draft pundits' pre draft prognostications....."heir apparent gunslinger to Favre going to the Pack at #23".....and Tom Terrific snookered everybody moving to 22...man was a genius.....

[PIZ]

 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

15 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Arm strength is the easiest thing to add when you go from college to pro...weight lifting regimens are far different in college than in the pros...

since Brady is mentioned I will point the Tom brady that played at Michigan and showed up at the combine has a much different body then the one he had a few years later. 

how he got it there I will leave it up for each of you to decide 

[richardb1952]

He will only be "like Brady" when NE takes him in draft.  Then the experts will see the "obvious comparison".

[Turk71]

28 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

You are going to feel pretty stupid if you ever revisit this post a few years down the road.

Wouldn't surprise me if the trade the farm for Rosen crowd feel pretty stupid in a few years. I don't see a sure thing among these qbs, or have a favorite. 

[racketmaster]

His movement in the pocket reminds me a lot of Phillip Rivers. Very similar in many ways but his arm strength is not as good. If he was able to put a little more zip on the ball I would really like Rudolph as a prospect. His lack of arm strength is his Achilles heel. If he is able to improve it enough and mask it with anticipation then he could be successfull. 

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Trepasso has said Rudolph is his favorite quarterback in the draft take it for whatever you want.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

35 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

 

Your post gives me deja vu from the old BBMB when I said the Bills should draft Russell Wilson in the first round.

 

 

who were you there?

 

I mean troll seems to come to mind but it could take a toll on me trying to relate it to your username here.

 

I don't have much against them picking up rudolph, he would be on my list above allen and jackson.

 

I liked rosen but the concussion deal bothers me. mayfield has some fire and darnold could be considered?

 

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter too much who I like or dislike. I just hope they pull the trigger on any of the top prospects come draft day?

 

 

Rudolph is going to need a lot of work on his field vision for the NFL. He rarely works beyond his primary read and constantly stares down his first option. In terms of his longer-term development, Rudolph was wise to return for his senior season. He should focus on improving his field vision to work through progressions before going pro. Along with improving his footwork, working on being under center, and learning how to call NFL plays.
 

Jackson has a good athletic skill set, but will need to show more accuracy and pocket-passing skills in 2017. He also faces some size concerns and needs to add weight. Teams do feel that Jackson has a ton of athletic ability and upside to grow. He also has gotten good early reviews for his character, leadership and toughness.
 

Mayfield stepped up in 2015 and carried the Sooners late in the season as they earned a spot in the college playoff. He was a Heisman finalist as he completed 68 percent of his passes for 3,700 yards with 36 touchdowns and seven interceptions. Mayfield also ran for 405 yards with seven scores.
 

Allen could end up being a love/hate prospect. There is no doubt that he has superb physical talent to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. In 2016, Allen completed 56 percent of his passes for 3,203 yards with 28 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.
 

Rosen had an impressive debut as a freshman, completing 60 percent of his passes for 3,670 yards with 23 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He showed off a powerful arm and the ability to be an NFL pocket passer. While Rosen has gotten a ton of hype, the same thing happened with Christian Hackenberg after his freshman season. Thus, Rosen still has more to prove as a junior to be a high first-rounder.

 

Darnold completed 67 percent of his passes in 2016 for 3,086 yards with 31 touchdowns and nine interceptions. He has size, a strong-enough arm and accuracy, plus led USC on a nine-game winning streak to end last season. There is buzz of him being a No. 1-overall talent at the position. Team sources say that the early feedback is that Darnold has good intangibles as well.

2018 NFL Draft Prospects: Quarterbacks

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Any resemblance of Rudolph to Brady is purely coincidental.

[Turk71]

Sven earlier in the thread said Rudolph is "not a great runner to say the least". Not saying he is a good runner but he did run for 10 tds last year, more than anyone but Jackson. Next highest had 5, Rosen ran for -97yds and 2 tds. So using his run ability as a knock against him doesn't ring true. I am hoping the Bills get their prospect without giving up picks.

[billsredneck1]

3 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

I thought about Rudolph at 22, but I think we can get him in the 2nd, not to mention taking a QB in the 1st is a big commitment, a commitment I would only make for an elite QB prospect.

 

A failed 2nd round QB, you can move on from in a year. A failed 1st round QB can get yourself fired. I don't think McDermott and Beane should rest their fate on an Andy Dalton kind of prospect.

 

if we think we can get him in the 2nd, he will be a patriot.

[GunnerBill]

49 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

who were you there?

 

I mean troll seems to come to mind but it could take a toll on me trying to relate it to your username here.

 

I don't have much against them picking up rudolph, he would be on my list above allen and jackson.

 

I liked rosen but the concussion deal bothers me. mayfield has some fire and darnold could be considered?

 

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter too much who I like or dislike. I just hope they pull the trigger on any of the top prospects come draft day?

 

 

Rudolph is going to need a lot of work on his field vision for the NFL. He rarely works beyond his primary read and constantly stares down his first option. In terms of his longer-term development, Rudolph was wise to return for his senior season. He should focus on improving his field vision to work through progressions before going pro. Along with improving his footwork, working on being under center, and learning how to call NFL plays.
 

Jackson has a good athletic skill set, but will need to show more accuracy and pocket-passing skills in 2017. He also faces some size concerns and needs to add weight. Teams do feel that Jackson has a ton of athletic ability and upside to grow. He also has gotten good early reviews for his character, leadership and toughness.
 

Mayfield stepped up in 2015 and carried the Sooners late in the season as they earned a spot in the college playoff. He was a Heisman finalist as he completed 68 percent of his passes for 3,700 yards with 36 touchdowns and seven interceptions. Mayfield also ran for 405 yards with seven scores.
 

Allen could end up being a love/hate prospect. There is no doubt that he has superb physical talent to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. In 2016, Allen completed 56 percent of his passes for 3,203 yards with 28 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.
 

Rosen had an impressive debut as a freshman, completing 60 percent of his passes for 3,670 yards with 23 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He showed off a powerful arm and the ability to be an NFL pocket passer. While Rosen has gotten a ton of hype, the same thing happened with Christian Hackenberg after his freshman season. Thus, Rosen still has more to prove as a junior to be a high first-rounder.

 

Darnold completed 67 percent of his passes in 2016 for 3,086 yards with 31 touchdowns and nine interceptions. He has size, a strong-enough arm and accuracy, plus led USC on a nine-game winning streak to end last season. There is buzz of him being a No. 1-overall talent at the position. Team sources say that the early feedback is that Darnold has good intangibles as well.

2018 NFL Draft Prospects: Quarterbacks

 

 

Yea... WalterFootball..... take with a pinch of salt. 

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

if we think we can get him in the 2nd, he will be a patriot.

I renege my statement and I agree with your line of thinking, if the Bills FO thinks he can be a franchise guy, take him 10-15 spots from where he is projected to go.

[stony]

I feel like Brady has been called every name in the book on this board.  But "system QB" might be the worst thing anyone's ever said of him.