jkeerie Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Quote Successful QBs greatly diminish as you move down the draft. Case in point the 2012 draft...Oh yeah. Maybe not always the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, T-Bomb said: Yup! Nah... I don’t think the Bills were in on it. I think the Colts know who they want and think he’ll still be there at 6. 12 is a big drop off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, CajunBillsBacker said: No. There’s still plenty of opportunities available to grab a top QB. or Stay at 12, get Lamar Jackson, and use the rest of our picks to fill some holes. We’re still in a Win/Win situation here. Lamar Jackson is not win win it’s all lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetou Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Lamar Jackson is not win win it’s all lose Don't be too sure of that. He definitely doesn't hold the value of the top prospects, but he has a ton of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The Bills can still get into a spot, it’s just going to cost us more and we might not get the exact guy we were targeting. This trade hurts no matter how you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 We will be playing against either Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield twice a year for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 42 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Let’s say they are screwed (it feels like it.) it all started when the Bills decided to stick with Taylor and not bring in a Brian Hoyer or worse. That was the one move that was a catalyst to which brought us to today. no Tyrod...we could have not pushed Kyle to return...and still executed all the other moves. a team with no Taylor, Kyle Williams, Marcel Dareus, Sammy Watkins...etc would have effectively delivered a 5-11 record. Wait, didn't Kyle just sign an extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I think we were going to have to overpay for pick #2 regardless of what happened today. We are competing with the Broncos, Dolphins, and Cardinals for that selection. We have prime draft capital to offer, so I don't think our situation changed all that much. If anything, the Jets are now removed as a competitor, as they dont have much to offer to jump up to 2. The issue really is if the Giants don't want to trade out and we get locked out. If that's the case it is what it is and you punt on a quarterback. Beane may also be patient. He said a bunch of times we are in "striking distance." We are in a good spot if a quarterback inevitably drops into that 7-10 range to jump the Dolphins and still keep 22. It's still so early, but I don't think much has changed at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said: The Bills can still get into a spot, it’s just going to cost us more and we might not get the exact guy we were targeting. This trade hurts no matter how you slice it. It would cost them more but it actually gives us a better chance to get the guy you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, wppete said: We will be playing against either Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield twice a year for years. Yep, and the Bills will still be in QB purgatory... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: It would cost them more but it actually gives us a better chance to get the guy you want. That’s assuming 1 and 2 are up for sale. That may not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Klaista2k said: Any chance we can still move up to 2nd overall or maybe even 1st overall to get our quarterback? Are we screwed? Yes, we’re toast because now the first 3 teams are picking the Big 3 QB’s. Edited March 17, 2018 by McBean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 57 minutes ago, Klaista2k said: Any chance we can still move up to 2nd overall or maybe even 1st overall to get our quarterback? Are we screwed? No because I dont think Beane was going to trade up anymore after the way FA played out so well for the Bills in landing AJ, a promising young QB for pennies on the dollar, and all the other teams who invested in QB's in FA. Only 2 teams for sure taking a QB in top 10 right now...Cle and Jets. I dont think Giants will nor do I think the Broncos will. In fact, I dont think the Bills were even really hot to get to #3 because if they were, there is NO reason for the Colts to make this trade right now when they could potentially get a better deal from Bills if we really wanted to trade up. The fact they made the trade now tells me everything I need to know about how serious Beane was about a trade with the Colts. If Beane told them it depends how the board falls, then Colts could have waited until draft night like many teams do before exciting an offer. People take the fans idea of a plan to serious around here as if its concrete plans of the FO. Dont get me wrong, I really want to land Baker personally...but I also realize its quite possible to land him at 12 after the way FA has played out. Although if Baker is the guy the Bills want (which we have no idea), I would think they might try and trade to 10 or 9 to get him as Miami is a definite spot he could also go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Bobby Hooks said: That’s assuming 1 and 2 are up for sale. That may not be the case. Depends what you offer. If it's a guy Beane thinks is can't miss you offer what you have to offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Only 2 teams for sure taking a QB in top 10 right now...Cle and Jets. I dont think Giants will nor do I think the Broncos will. We'll see how it plays out, but that is just so wrong IMO. 4 QB's will be gone by the time the Bills pick. And IMO only 2 of them are worthy to be selected that high. Edited March 17, 2018 by T-Bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, T-Bomb said: We'll see how it plays out, but that is just so wrong IMO. 4 QB's will be gone by the time the Bills pick. And IMO only 2 of them are worthy to be selected that high. Easy to say, but for that to happen there needs to be a team that drafts them. So who in the top 11 picks ahead of us are definitely taking those 4 QB's? Cleveland and Jets, but who else? Edited March 17, 2018 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Successful QBs greatly diminish as you move down the draft. I don't want a good QB, I want a great one - the longer you wait the harder it gets. In the past, QBs would fall more because of the contract that you had to pay them, teams weren't as willing to take risks. It is different now. McD and the Pegs took the risk last year of bypassing the QBs and winded up with a CB and capital to go get one this year, we have the picks. You can't be overly passive, because you may lose out on what you want. Tom D was sent to the pasture because he didn't act quick enough to move up for Pig Ben. IMO #3 isn't high enough, but it gets you in a good position to swap with the Giants if necessary and have most of the blue chip prospects there (Nelson in their case)... Yes I liked being in the playoffs, but the outcome was expected and that team was never going to be good enough to do any damage. When you are going through a multi-year tear down/rebuild like us, you forgo short-term thinking and play the long... Just because the FO and Coaching staff is better than what we are used to so far - it doesn't matter if they can't address QB... Weren't both Carr and Wilson drafted after the change to the collective bargaining agreement (in 2011 IIRC)? And I can't imagine a team passing on Drew Brees high in the draft just because they didn't want to pay him what rookie contracts were going for... most likely he fell to the 2nd because of his height and perceived ceiling in the NFL. Drafting a QB is a total crap shoot. I agree though, chances are better in the top 2, which is where we need to get if we want one of the top 2 QBs. The only thing the Jets did was guarantee themselves the 3rd QB off the board. The 3rd QB off the board is absolutely no guarantee that they will get a great QB. What are the odds that the 3rd QB drafted in a given year is a great, franchise changing QB? And one that will be THAT much better than a QB taken later? I bet the odds are not that astronomically different that the 3rd QB off the board will be somewhat similar to the 4th/5th etc. Also, If the Bills spend all their ammo getting to 3, we may not have had anything left to get to #2. I dont agree that that we should have tanked this season though. You can't attempt to change a broken, losing culture by tanking. And if McDermott and Beane would have tanked in their very first year here, how do they ever gain credibility or buy-in in the locker room? Anyway, Its just not realistic to expect 2 guys who worked for the last 20 years to earn their positions (GM and Head Coach), to just tank and throw away a season their rookie year on the job. How do you force NFL players to tank anyway? By "the outcome was expected" do you mean their playoff loss? If so I agree. But if you're saying that the playoffs were expected I disagree. Most had the Bills as one of the bottom 3-4 teams in the NFL. Most seemed to think we were tanking... I'm not even sure Beane or McDermott planned on making the playoffs last year. They likely thought they'd be sitting higher in the draft I bet... It seems to me that McDermott and Beane have been playing the long term game since they got here. But you can only control what you can control. Look, I am all for trading to #2 and getting our QB. But I am not going to act like its the end of the world if that doesn't happen. Unfortunately it may not be in the cards this year, and if it's not I am not going to lose all hope of the Bills finding their franchise QB. I mean, Beane hasn't even had a single draft with the Bills yet. Not every GM can land their franchise QB in their 1st draft... And im certainly not going to regret breaking the playoff drought last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Klaista2k said: Not so sure it's irrational. If the Giants know were desperate to move up they can basically demand whatever the hell they want. ...and Beane can decline. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Easy to say, but for that to happen there needs to be a team that drafts them. So who in the top 11 picks ahead of us are definitely taking those 4 QB's? Cleveland and Jets, but who else? Browns, Jets, Broncos, Dolphins at a minimum. Giants may want an heir for Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Until we see how the draft falls there is no way in knowing if the Jets trade had any barring on us what so ever. We do not know how Buffalo has the Qbs ranked. Until the picks are turned in and the all the Qbs are selected there is no way to determine how the Jets effected the draft for Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDman Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Kinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The Jets !@#$ed the Bills as even if the Bills trade up to 2, or 4 they will have to either pay a higher price (Giants price has to go up if they are willing to deal) and the Qb at pick 4 isn't going to be as strong as the Bills had hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: Browns, Jets, Broncos, Dolphins at a minimum. Giants may want an heir for Manning. Keenum is the starting QB of the Broncos, and Elway still likes the other kid on their roster. I have SERIOUS doubts Broncos take a QB. Dolphins are certainly a potential one, but they pick at 11, Bills do NOT need to get into the top 5 to get ahead of them. They could easily trade up cheaper on draft night into 7, 8, 9, or 10 if someone they covet is there. Again, the only 2 certain teams are Cle and Jets. Edited March 17, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Keenum is the starting QB of the Broncos, and Elway still likes the other kid on their roster. I have SERIOUS doubts Broncos take a QB. Dolphins are certain a potential one, but they pick at 11, Bills do NOT need to get into the top 5 to get ahead of them. They could easily trade up cheaper on draft night into 7, 8, 9, or 10 if someone they covet is there. Again, the only 2 certain teams are Cle and Jets. In no way is Elway happy with sloppy seconds Keenum as the franchise QB... They will be targeting a QB for sure. Edited March 17, 2018 by T-Bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just now, T-Bomb said: In no way is Elway happy with sloppy seconds Keenum... They will be targeting a QB for sure. I disagree about Elway's opinion. They did NOT need to spend on Keenum if they plan to take a QB at 5. They already had Trevor and also had a kid that all reports Elways still likes. They dont have a ton of cap room, they absolutely would have stuck with Trevor if they were going to for sure have taken a QB at #5. Elway doesn't like to lose, he is not trying to rebuild. He already won the SB with the worst QB play in the NFL that year (Manning and Brock were among the lowest rated passers in the NFL that year) and also the statistically the worst QB performance on a winning team in the SB (Manning) in history. So I think Elway thinks Keenum can help balance that team and make another push in the AFC before his window closes any further than it already has. I could be wrong, but everything I know about Elway and what he just did suggests to me he is not taking a QB at 5. And if they do, then he is an idiot for signing Keenum to a multi year contract and tying up more cap space instead of just letting Trevor hold the seat warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: *stuff* Maybe, in any event, there are only two QB's worth trading up for. Mayfield = little B word Allen = Kyle Boller 2.0 IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPbillsfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 We are not screwed, stay at 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 12 - Lamar Jackson, let him develop as a back-up and "change of pace" QB for various situations 22 - Leighton Vander Esch - QB of our defense, big, fast, smart, great measureables at the combine that matches what's on the game tape 53 - DJ Chark - Deep threat WR needed, size, great speed fantastic compliment to Kelvin Benjamin, Charles Clay and Jay Jones in the slot 56 - Best CB available that's a zone corner type, they stay not drafted in relation to press cover corners 65 - RJ McIntosh - 3 technique DT that can penetrate and replace KW next year 96 - Frank Ragnow - big powerful center to help the depth and develop to move Groy to C/G back-up thoughts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 58 minutes ago, jkeerie said: So don't get desperate. Desperation got us JP Losman. Desperation got us EJ Manuel. Beane's moves to this point have been measured and rational. I don't expect anything less from him moving forward. Not being desperate led to us passing on Mahomes and Watson. At some point you have to find a QB you want and pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eee1776 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 First, We all assume that the Jets move up was to take a quarterback. That makes a lot of logical sense. On the other hand maybe they were after that running back from Penn state. Or, some other player that they want before he is gone. We have some many holes to fill LB, CB,WR OL. I would not be upset if they hold fast. All this hate on Bean in these post is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Klaista2k said: Not being desperate led to us passing on Mahomes and Watson. At some point you have to find a QB you want and pull the trigger. I wish they had taken Watson. But what exactly has Mahomes done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Klaista2k said: Any chance we can still move up to 2nd overall or maybe even 1st overall to get our quarterback? Are we screwed? Is there a chance? Sure, if the Giants are willing to deal (and they may not be). Are the Bills screwed? Unlikely. The Bills likely have contingencies in place as to who they want and what they want to do if someone jumped up to 3 (assuming they were targeting the Colts pick for a trade, which I think they were.) The Jests panicked and overpaid to move up, and the Colts shot themselves in the foot by trading #3 too soon. They likely could have exacted a heavier price from the Jests (or anyone else) during the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakAttack Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 No way to know if we got screwed until the draft is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 First off, people calling for Beane to go are beyond ridiculous. Second, in order to trade up you need a partner to trade with. It’s likely that the Colts have their eyes on one or two non-quarterback prospects who will be there at pick 6 but who will be gone by pick 12. So they trade down a few picks and get the exact same guy they were going to pick at 3 and pocket three second round picks in the process. Good for the Colts. Not much Beane can do about that. I don’t think Beane is going to wrangle the 2 pick out of the Giants either. I think they take Eli’s replacement. The next time the Bills can conceivably move up is at 4 and three of the QBs will already be off the board at that point. What are the odds the one QB McBeane wants is still there? ( I know, 1:4 it was a rhetorical question you wiseacres ) It may be that due to circumstances beyond Beanes control, the one or two options at QB they have been looking at simply can’t be had for any price this year and we will have to take a chance on a later round QB like Jackson or Rudolph. I’m personally a bit curious to see what McCarron has. In any event, it sure looks like we are going to miss out on this year’s QB sweepstakes, but what can you do? That’s life. Sometimes you’re the bug, sometimes you’re the windshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Or we don't trade up and we have a better team and a shot a a qb that has the same chance of success as the first pick as of this moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 38 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: In no way is Elway happy with sloppy seconds Keenum as the franchise QB... They will be targeting a QB for sure. I would be surprised for Elway to pick any QB for the sake of picking a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Not so sure it's irrational. If the Giants know were desperate to move up they can basically demand whatever the hell they want. this. the jets have paid and incredible cost to move from 6 to 3. we would be moving higher up from further away. the ransom on that deal would be incredible. and it would hurt, a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Paulus said: Wait, didn't Kyle just sign an extension? This would have been before last season and McDerrmott pitching him to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 16 hours ago, wppete said: Im pissed off that the Jets are the team that jumped ahead of us. #2 trade with the Giants is going to be very expensive. Too Expensive. Going out on a limb and saying there is now zero chance we trade up to 2. The Giants can write their own ticket now and as evidenced by Beane not giving Indy enough draft capital it will be too tall of an order. I think they stay at 12 until the draft now and watch the first few picks shake out. If a move happens now it will be when a team is on the clock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 20 hours ago, pimp on da' net said: ...and Beane can decline. Problem solved. And how does that solve our problem of finding a franchise QB that we haven't had in forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 They certainly didn't do Buffalo any favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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