Memories of 2004 NFL Draft

[mjt328]

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

[SectionC3]

We aren't there yet.  The Jets trade is not a great thing, but it's not the end of the world.  It definitely raises the price for us to get to #2.  It may also lock the Jets into the third best QB in the draft if they don't have the assets to move up again. 

 

The trade also puts the Giants in position to expedite their rebuild if they (a) believe in Eli; and (b) can live without Barkley.  It also would help the Giants if (c) they are lucky enough that Cleveland loves Barkley.  

 

Assuming that those three things are true, Barkley is the key to the draft.  Cleveland could take him at 1 and move into the Giants pick at 2 to take its QB.  Or Cleveland could lock in its QB at 1 and move up for Barkley at 2.  Based on the price to go from 3 to 6, it will be expensive for Cleveland to move up even two spots.  

 

Assuming Cleveland moves up into two (or that the Jets don't do it themselves), the Giants could move again from 3 or 4 - maybe dealing with us for 12, 21, and additional high picks (next year's 1, maybe a pair of twos, etc.).  No matter, the Giants are the big winner today - they have the chance to add a lot of young talent to the roster in a very short period of time.  And although the price went up today, we're still in the game for a QB at the top of the draft, and we have the benefit of the Jets showing their hand early and seemingly locking themselves into a spot (if we pay a king's ransom to the Giants) where they may not be able to jump us for our guy. 

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by SectionC3

[Klaista2k]

The 2004 draft was the stupidest thing ever.

 

All we had to do was move ahead of Pittsburgh and we would've had Big Ben.

 

But Donahoe was a complete idiot and said the asking price was too much. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Klaista2k

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Yes...

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Learn the lesson and avoid Mason Rudolph at pick #22. 

[Elite Poster]

Learn the damn lesson.

[GG]

That is not a correct representation. 

 

Donahoe tried like hell to trade with Jags and Texans, and both refused because they were dead set to pick future NFL failures.  

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

 

And, as has been pointed out ad nauseam, Green Bay selected Aaron Rodgers the following year at 24. 

[mannc]

35 minutes ago, Klaista2k said:

The 2004 draft was the stupidest thing ever.

 

All we had to do was move ahead of Pittsburgh and we would've had Big Ben.

 

But Donahoe was a complete idiot and said the asking price was too much. 

The funniest thing about it is that the two teams we could have traded with to get ahead of Pittsburgh (Jacksonville and Houston) both needed QBs, both passed on Roethlisberger, and both picked awful busts instead. 

[jkeerie]

30 minutes ago, GG said:

That is not a correct representation. 

 

Donahoe tried like hell to trade with Jags and Texans, and both refused because they were dead set to pick future NFL failures.  

I remember that draft.  Both teams were locked into players they wanted and were afraid they wouldn't be there where the Bills were picking.  

[SouthNYfan]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

 

You forget that the pick we traded to move up and get Losman, had Aaron Rodgers available the following year, could have had him too.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I remember that draft.  Both teams were locked into players they wanted and were afraid they wouldn't be there where the Bills were picking.  

My theory is that Dom Capers hated TD so much that there's no way he'd approve a trade that would help Buffalo

[greeneblitz]

My first thought as well, come on Brandon Bean, you're up, shine where Tom Donahoe failed us.

[T-Bomb]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

 

Same old Bills!

[Alphadawg7]

Why is everyone so freaked out about this trade lol.  Jets were ALREADY picking before us.  They didnt leap frog us.  

 

Second, its pretty clear Beane wasn't pushing to hard to get the #3 pick, otherwise the Colts DO NOT do this trade right now.  They would have waited until draft night or closer to draft to see if the offer would be better from Bills.  Clearly they did NOT feel the Bills were going to push for it or make a better offer, so this assumption we were certainly trading with the Colts just doesn't seem accurate.  

 

I told everyone when we signed AJ, if Bills think highly enough of AJ as a prospect, it could very much alter their intention to get into the top 5.  Not to mention, only 2 teams are currently a lock in top 10 to draft a QB in Cle and Jets.  I dont think the Broncos will now that they signed Keenum and I have never once believed the Giants are going to take a QB.  I still think they are going to try and make a last run with Eli and will draft Barkely if Browns dont take him #1.  

 

Outside of that, there isnt another team certain to take a QB in the top 10.  Miami might take one at 11, so Beane could do a MUCH cheaper trade up to 7, 8, 9, or 10 if a QB they covert is there and do it on draft night.  And with AJ, they might feel comfortable taking a LB at 12 if there isnt a QB they want that falls out of the top 5.  

[T-Bomb]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why is everyone so freaked out about this trade lol.  Jets were ALREADY picking before us.  They didnt leap frog us.

 

Because it was obvious the Colts were the best trading partner, now you only have one, and I think the Giants are not willing to move.  Game over. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, T-Bomb said:

 

Because it was obvious the Colts were the best trading partner, now you only have one, and I think the Giants are not willing to move.  Game over. 

 

Game was already over clearly.  If Colts thought Beane was gonna make an offer, or at least a better offer, they would have waited.  With FA going the way it did for other teams, Bills landing a promising young QB prospect already, and still having the 12th pick...I think its pretty clear Beane cooled his Jets on a move up or what he was willing to pay to do it.  

 

I want Baker...but even I feel like the Bills dont have to trade up into the top 5 anymore.  I think its more realistic to see us move to 7, 8, 9 or 10 if there is a guy they covet at QB on the board.

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Game was already over clearly.  If Colts thought Beane was gonna make an offer, or at least a better offer, they would have waited.  With FA going the way it did for other teams, Bills landing a promising young QB prospect already, and still having the 12th pick...I think its pretty clear Beane cooled his Jets on a move up or what he was willing to pay to do it.  

 

I want Baker...but even I feel like the Bills dont have to trade up into the top 5 anymore.  I think its more realistic to see us move to 7, 8, 9 or 10 if there is a guy they covet at QB on the board.

 

The game shouldn’t have been over though. Beane should have been willing to outbid the Jets. I always try my best not to be drawn to hyperbolic reactions, but this looks bad thus far. Maybe I value the QB position more than Beane. I’m not excepting any of the top three ( Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold) to be available with picks 7-10. 

[26CornerBlitz]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Game was already over clearly.  If Colts thought Beane was gonna make an offer, or at least a better offer, they would have waited.  With FA going the way it did for other teams, Bills landing a promising young QB prospect already, and still having the 12th pick...I think its pretty clear Beane cooled his Jets on a move up or what he was willing to pay to do it.  

 

I want Baker...but even I feel like the Bills dont have to trade up into the top 5 anymore.  I think its more realistic to see us move to 7, 8, 9 or 10 if there is a guy they covet at QB on the board.

 

I don't believe that was the case with Ballard saying they simply did not want to drop out of the top ten. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Donahoe was trash.

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

And the revisionist history of the year award goes to ..... Look that is not what happened, at all. Tom Donahoe ( and most others ) knew the Steelers were high on Roethlisberger. There was never a realistic chance he fell to the Bills at 13. So Donahoe called around , eventually agreeing to a trade up with HOU that would position the Bills ahead of PIT. It was reported on ESPN during the draft by Chris Mortensen ( TDs friend from his time at ESPN before taking the Bills GM job) as a " done deal". Then disaster struck. The Texans wanted CB Dunta Robinson, and thought he'd be available with the Bills pick. ATL chose CB DeAngelo Hall at 8. HOU grew nervous that a run on DBs could start and cost them their top choice of Robinson. They cancelled the deal. Tom Donahoe panicked for sure by moving up for Losman later in the first round. Indeed, the 2005 1st rounder the Bills sent to DAL could have netted them Rodgers . Rodgers was a relative unknown at the time though, and in 2004 '05 was thought to be a " down year" for QBs. In retrospect, it yielded Alex Smith and Rodgers. There's a lesson in there somewhere . But the Bills GM didn't sit om  his hands and watch Roethlisberger slip  away. A little bad luck, bad timing and that left only one team left to work out a last minute deal with before PIT was up. It's a huge stretch to  say the Bills are repeating history and the alarm bells should be ringing . 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

The game shouldn’t have been over though. Beane should have been willing to outbid the Jets. I always try my best not to be drawn to hyperbolic reactions, but this looks bad thus far. Maybe I value the QB position more than Beane. I’m not excepting any of the top three ( Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold) to be available with picks 7-10. 

 

1. We dont even know if thats Beanes top 3 QBs that you listed.
2. The Colts also may NOT have wanted to trade all the way to 12.
3. We dont even know if Beane was really set on getting to #3.

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't believe that was the case with Ballard saying they simply did not want to drop out of the top ten. 

 

Which also makes sense

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

The game shouldn’t have been over though. Beane should have been willing to outbid the Jets. I always try my best not to be drawn to hyperbolic reactions, but this looks bad thus far. Maybe I value the QB position more than Beane. I’m not excepting any of the top three ( Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold) to be available with picks 7-10. 

You can't outbid a team that has a top ten pick when you don't! The Jets upped their offer to an acceptable level for the Colts and the Colts took it. The Colts used the Bills offer to extract what the Jets were willing to pay. All picks aren't created equal, draft charts be damned. 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why is everyone so freaked out about this trade lol.  Jets were ALREADY picking before us.  They didnt leap frog us.  

 

Second, its pretty clear Beane wasn't pushing to hard to get the #3 pick, otherwise the Colts DO NOT do this trade right now.  They would have waited until draft night or closer to draft to see if the offer would be better from Bills.  Clearly they did NOT feel the Bills were going to push for it or make a better offer, so this assumption we were certainly trading with the Colts just doesn't seem accurate.  

 

I told everyone when we signed AJ, if Bills think highly enough of AJ as a prospect, it could very much alter their intention to get into the top 5.  Not to mention, only 2 teams are currently a lock in top 10 to draft a QB in Cle and Jets.  I dont think the Broncos will now that they signed Keenum and I have never once believed the Giants are going to take a QB.  I still think they are going to try and make a last run with Eli and will draft Barkely if Browns dont take him #1.  

 

Outside of that, there isnt another team certain to take a QB in the top 10.  Miami might take one at 11, so Beane could do a MUCH cheaper trade up to 7, 8, 9, or 10 if a QB they covert is there and do it on draft night.  And with AJ, they might feel comfortable taking a LB at 12 if there isnt a QB they want that falls out of the top 5.  

How could the Bills really think that highly of McCarron? Think about how they signed him. They basically waited until the free agency QB rush slowed down before signing him. This allowed McCarron’s market value to project downward. If Beane viewed McCarron as a franchise QB, they wouldn’t have waited until the ball dropped with the other FA QB’s.

 

It appears that the Bills were taking the path of signing the cheapest option as their “bridge QB”. I’m not convinced they cared who that guy would be. Its quite possible that the front office viewed all the FA QB’s as being close to equals. Signing a cheap option such as McCarron made the most sense if that was their logic. Beane nor anyone else will ever be able to sell me the idea that McCarron is the franchise guy. It’s not impossible that they won’t try to sell this idea, but only if Beane fails to secure a legit starting QB in the draft. 

[BillsFan4]

Or maybe this 2018 draft is like the last draft where 3 QBs went off the board at 1, 2, 3 - 1999. 

 

and two of the top 3 end up being like Tim Couch and Akili Smith. 

 

lol

 

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

You can't outbid a team that has a top ten pick when you don't! The Jets upped their offer to an acceptable level for the Colts and the Colts took it. The Colts used the Bills offer to extract what the Jets were willing to pay. All picks aren't created equal, draft charts be damned. 

If I’m the Colts I’d consider taking 12, 22, and 53 (maybe next years second) over the Jets 6, 37, and 49 plus next years second. Beane likely didn’t offer that much, and plenty of others on this board wouldn’t either if they were GM. All of these draft picks were meant to be used as draft assets to cash in for a QB (at least I thought). I’d be willing to use them to finally bring a bona fide pro QB prospect to Buffalo. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Didn't want to fall out of the top ten.

[RevWarRifleman]

3 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

The 2004 draft was the stupidest thing ever.

 

All we had to do was move ahead of Pittsburgh and we would've had Big Ben.

 

But Donahoe was a complete idiot and said the asking price was too much. 

Agree, and thus another chapter in the Bills 17 yr playoff drought. Too many of those draft-day bungles were ugly to watch. 

[T-Bomb]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

Donahoe was trash.

 

We'll be saying the same thing about Beane if he doesn't land a franchise QB this year.

 

At one point, Danahoe was "brilliant", especially for his McGahee pick, kinda like how Beane is currently "brilliant".

 

Without a great QB, he will start to smell like hot garbage rather quickly.

[CDogg20]

Biggest thing is we shouldn’t panic and snag a qb just for the hell of it like we did then. Had we stayed put we could have had Aaron Rogers the following year. If we dont get a qb this year it is not the end of the world. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

If I’m the Colts I’d consider taking 12, 22, and 53 (maybe next years second) over the Jets 6, 37, and 49 plus next years second. Beane likely didn’t offer that much, and plenty of others on this board wouldn’t either if they were GM. All of these draft picks were meant to be used as draft assets to cash in for a QB (at least I thought). I’d be willing to use them to finally bring a bona fide pro QB prospect to Buffalo. 

You have zero evidence to support your theory of what was offered/ talked about and what might have swayed Ballard. The Colts probably have a target player and moved back just 3 spots for a bunch of picks. And they still get their targeted player most likely. Any  Bills offer would have meant moving down another six spots. It's pretty easy to see why they would do that. The Bills draft currency is vastly overrated by Bills fans. The first round draft spot is HUGE! 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Some of the old-timers on here (can't believe it's been 14 years), probably remember this one.

 

Bills are ready to draft their QB of the future, with Drew Bledsoe's best days behind him.  They are sitting at Pick #13.

There are considered to be 3 top QB prospects in the draft.  Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

The Bills have admitted they really wanted Roethlisberger.  And based on most of the mock drafts, it's totally realistic that he falls to us.  But General Manager Tom Donahoe decided to sit on his hands instead of trading up a few spots to secure the guy he wanted.  The Steelers surprised everyone by snatching him at #11, two spots ahead of our pick.  Our front office settled for Lee Evans at #13 and then went into panic mode.  They traded away the next year's #1 pick to move ahead of Green Bay and take the best option of the second tier... JP Losman.

 

We ended up giving up a king's ransom anyway, and still got a lesser prospect.  Roethlisberger went on to win multiple Super Bowls, while Losman was a massive bust.

 

Revision history is strong with you

 

in the end it doesn’t matter we didn’t get what we needed

[Zerovoltz]

Nothing new to add, and it's been said before....but I laugh when people say...I wouldn't take QB X at 5 but if he fell to 24 I would....or better example...he's not worth taking at 7 but I'd do it at pick 15.  ???  If you have identified a franchise QB, then the pick at which you take him means NOTHING....the point is that you take him, or get him.  there is no such thing as a franchise QB who isn't worthy of any pick in a draft.  

[T-Bomb]

1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said:

Nothing new to add, and it's been said before....but I laugh when people say...I wouldn't take QB X at 5 but if he fell to 24 I would....or better example...he's not worth taking at 7 but I'd do it at pick 15.  ???  If you have identified a franchise QB, then the pick at which you take him means NOTHING....the point is that you take him, or get him.  there is no such thing as a franchise QB who isn't worthy of any pick in a draft.  

 

IMO Rosen is worth giving up the farm.  100 mill cap space next year, just go !@#$ing do it.

 

DO IT!

 

GET TO THE CHAPPA!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

But Donahoe was a complete idiot and said the asking price was too much. 

Sounds like half the board.

 

[DriveFor1Outta5]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

You have zero evidence to support your theory of what was offered/ talked about and what might have swayed Ballard. The Colts probably have a target player and moved back just 3 spots for a bunch of picks. And they still get their targeted player most likely. Any  Bills offer would have meant moving down another six spots. It's pretty easy to see why they would do that. The Bills draft currency is vastly overrated by Bills fans. The first round draft spot is HUGE! 

I don’t need evidence. I wasn’t stating facts, I’m just sharing an option. My sentence starts by saying “IF I’m the Colts I’d consider”. I will disagree that our draft currency is overrated, although you would be correct in saying it might not have been enough for the Colts. Personally, I’d take two first round picks with the 12th and 22 over the 6th, if I’m not targeting a QB which the Colts obviously aren’t.  

[Heitz]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Didn't want to fall out of the top ten.

 

I mean yeah, that’s what the Colts GM said, but who do you trust - that mans word, or a bunch of TBD posters?

 

i know where my money is...

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

28 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

We'll be saying the same thing about Beane if he doesn't land a franchise QB this year.

 

At one point, Danahoe was "brilliant", especially for his McGahee pick, kinda like how Beane is currently "brilliant".

 

Without a great QB, he will start to smell like hot garbage rather quickly.

 

 

if is the biggest two letter word in the dictionary and at this point I see absolutely no comparison between the two, none.

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

How could the Bills really think that highly of McCarron? Think about how they signed him. They basically waited until the free agency QB rush slowed down before signing him. This allowed McCarron’s market value to project downward. If Beane viewed McCarron as a franchise QB, they wouldn’t have waited until the ball dropped with the other FA QB’s.

 

It appears that the Bills were taking the path of signing the cheapest option as their “bridge QB”. I’m not convinced they cared who that guy would be. Its quite possible that the front office viewed all the FA QB’s as being close to equals. Signing a cheap option such as McCarron made the most sense if that was their logic. Beane nor anyone else will ever be able to sell me the idea that McCarron is the franchise guy. It’s not impossible that they won’t try to sell this idea, but only if Beane fails to secure a legit starting QB in the draft. 

 

Bolded part x100000.

If they wanted him so badly, why risk him signing elsewhere??

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Revision history is strong with you

 

in the end it doesn’t matter we didn’t get what we needed

 

What is revision about what he said??

It was 100% accurate.

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Bolded part x100000.

If they wanted him so badly, why risk him signing elsewhere??

 

What is revision about what he said??

It was 100% accurate.

Tom Donahoe , the Bills GM at the time of the '04 draft had a deal to move up in place with the Texans. It was cancelled by the Texans at the last minute when they thought their targeted player might get picked before Buffalo's pick at 13. Donahoe coveted Roethlisberger, and knew he had to get in front of Pittsburgh to get him. He wasn't asleep at the wheel.