Philly deadline to get under the cap: Nick Foles

[artmalibu]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He was able to play well for a short stretch in the right system while supported by a great coaching staff and excellent personnel.  Can he do that anywhere on a consistent basis?  

 

Do the Bills have the right system??  Good coaching???  Run the ball well, and if they can add a couple of pieces to stop the run.  With that I think a NF can win with the Bills.  TTs sub 200 yard passing games got the Bills in the playoffs and lost by a score.  

 

NF an Arron Rogers, no, but is anyone convinced that anyone in this draft is?

 

 

[Manther]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think if we get Foles, say for a 2nd and 3rd rounder, the plan would be stay put and take a QB at 21/22 (Jackson or Rudolph maybe). In that scenario we'd get Foles and a developmental 1st round rookie QB, and we'd still have one pick in each of the first 4 rounds. The more I think about it the more I like it.

That is solid!  We probably can't get up high enough to take our first graded QB and challenging to grab the 2nd  So, ya, that is a good plan "B" or "2A".

 

JMO

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

A qb such as Bradford would serve his purposes and ours. He may be able to salvage his career and the Bills should be able to get him in a short term deal. I'm also wouldn't mind getting Moore from Miami. He not only can start for the short term but also be a very good mentor and backup. 

I am admittedly partial but imo McCarron has more potential than the two you mention.

[Manther]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't see Foles as the long term answer the Bills have been looking for since 1996.  It's as simple as that. 

 

 

I'd rather sign a UFA QB and keep my 2nd and 3rd. 

Who is going to be a FA that is better than Foles?

 

Maybe Bradford or Keenum or at least equal?

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

How are you going to get both with a need to trade for Foles that requires giving them draft picks?

 

Well if we can get Foles without destroying our draft stock we can. There is a way.

[RochesterRob]

28 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

QB run is going to happen quick...

  If it does and I don't doubt it the cost to move up for the Bills will be steep.

[Manther]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

There are no UFAs who just won a Super Bowl and just turned 29. I'm actually very surprised by how many fans hate the idea of trading for Foles. Maybe he's a system QB but he's amazing in that system. It's a simple fix. We could still draft someone as a fall back option. If it came down to it I'd trade a 1st rounder for Foles, draft another QB in the 1st or 2nd, and feel really good about my QB situation moving forward.

Works for me.  Make sure we trade Philly our #22 as we don't want them taking a QB in front of us at #21.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Manther said:

Who is going to be a FA that is better than Foles?

 

Maybe Bradford or Keenum or at least equal?

 

Again, I wouldn't be looking in UFA for a long term solution. 

 

5 minutes ago, artmalibu said:

Do the Bills have the right system??  Good coaching???  Run the ball well, and if they can add a couple of pieces to stop the run.  With that I think a NF can win with the Bills.  TTs sub 200 yard passing games got the Bills in the playoffs and lost by a score.  

 

NF an Arron Rogers, no, but is anyone convinced that anyone in this draft is?

 

Not betting on a 29 year old journeyman who had to be talked out of quitting football.  I'll take my chances in the draft for a consistent long term starter. 

[Manther]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Again, I wouldn't be looking in UFA for a long term solution. 

 

 

Not betting on a 29 year old journeyman who had to be talked out of quitting football.  I'll take my chances in the draft for a consistent long term starter. 

Agreed.  Foles would not be my 1st or 2nd option.  But, I think he is my 3rd or at least 4th.

[mannc]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

There are no UFAs who just won a Super Bowl and just turned 29. I'm actually very surprised by how many fans hate the idea of trading for Foles. Maybe he's a system QB but he's amazing in that system. It's a simple fix. We could still draft someone as a fall back option. If it came down to it I'd trade a 1st rounder for Foles, draft another QB in the 1st or 2nd, and feel really good about my QB situation moving forward.

A first for Foles is unacceptable.  It’s what Philly wants, but there are zero takers. They will trade him for a second before the draft.  I’m fact, I think he can be had for the pick we got yesterday, plus a late rounder.

Edited March 10, 2018 by mannc

[Doc]

45 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is the guy youy want to give up draft picks for.  His career as an up and down performer says he's not worth it. 

 

Better than giving up the 2-1sts, a 2nd, and maybe a 1st next year for a guy with zero stats in the NFL, who prevents the Bills from adding good young players at other positions.  Never mind if they choose the wrong guy.  If they can get Foles for a 2nd and 3rd, they haven't screwed the future.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Better than giving up the 2-1sts, a 2nd, and maybe a 1st next year for a guy with zero stats in the NFL, who prevents the Bills from adding good young players at other positions.  Never mind if they choose the wrong guy.  If they can get Foles for a 2nd and 3rd, they haven't screwed the future.

 

There are other years to build a team beyond 2018. Time doesn't stop.  Just be prepared to be disappointed if and when Beane trades up for a QB. 

[Paulus]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes it will. What do you think you are giving up to get Foles???

 

The Ammo need to go get a top rookie. 

 

Just say no to journeymen 

Probably whatever the Browns gave up for TT. 

[Manther]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Better than giving up the 2-1sts, a 2nd, and maybe a 1st next year for a guy with zero stats in the NFL, who prevents the Bills from adding good young players at other positions.  Never mind if they choose the wrong guy.  If they can get Foles for a 2nd and 3rd, they haven't screwed the future.

I think it is more important to get the right QB rather than worry about what you give up to get him.  But, I think Foles is better than the 3rd QB in the draft.  And, we may not be able to get the top 2.

[bills in oregon]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have no interest in Foles. Go get a top rookie

 So let me get this straight you would rather have an unproven Rookie  which none of these guys would be first-round picks in last year‘s draft class or the year before but you want to give up draft picks and not take the Super Bowl MVP,  really .

[Doc]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

There are other years to build a team beyond 2018. Time doesn't stop.  Just be prepared to be disappointed if and when Beane trades up for a QB. 

 

I won't be disappointed.  It will still be exciting.  And I seriously hope I won't be disappointed with how that QB plays. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, bills in oregon said:

 So let me get this straight you would rather have an unproven Rookie  which none of these guys would be first-round picks in last year‘s draft class or the year before but you want to give up draft picks and not take the Super Bowl MVP,  really .

I’m not trying to sound like a jerk but if you don’t think that these guys would have been 1st rounders in the last 2 drafts I am not sure that you’ve been following the situation closely. Josh Rosen was a surefire 1st round pick in 8th grade!! 

[RochesterRob]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

A first for Foles is unacceptable.  It’s what Philly wants, but there are zero takers. They will trade him for a second before the draft.  I’m fact, I think he can be had for the pick we got yesterday, plus a late rounder.

  Philly is over the cap and needs to get under it within a matter of days.  With the number of quality players they have doing something with Foles may not be something they can put off for weeks.

[Domdab99]

The Bills got pick #65 for Tyrod, and you guys think a 2nd rounder will be enough for the Super Bowl MVP??

[BuffaloRebound]

I'm fine with a 2nd rounder for Foles.  Free agents like McCarron won't come here since it's pretty obvious Bills are going after a 1st round QB.  Not gonna be able to get a free agent as good as Foles on 1 year deal.  I can't believe McBeane would've traded Tyrod without a Foles deal in place or a deal in place to get up to the top 2 or 3 to get Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

The Bills got pick #65 for Tyrod, and you guys think a 2nd rounder will be enough for the Super Bowl MVP??

Larry Brown was also a super bowl MVP.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

The Bills got pick #65 for Tyrod, and you guys think a 2nd rounder will be enough for the Super Bowl MVP??

 

I don't think Philly has a choice, they have to trade him. They're up against the cap. I think 53 and 65 could get it done. I would part with 22 and 158 if I had to. Still much cheaper than trading up for Rosen or whoever else.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Larry Brown was also a super bowl MVP.

 

The Raiders bit hard on that fool's gold by giving him a huge deal that they later regretted. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, artmalibu said:

ANSWER ONE QUESTION FOR ME PLEASE!!!!!

How many QBs in this years draft are worth the 3 #1s it COULD cost.  

 

One, or none.

 

And maybe not the same One for different teams.

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

 

He had a great year with Chip K. and looked rough with with Rams. On their playoff run and in the Super Bowl he outplayed Tom* Brady*.

 

Id still get a rookie if we went after him, but the guy deserves some credit.

The curse of Jeff Fisher. If that guy ever gets another gig I would be amazed.

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Larry Brown was also a super bowl MVP.

If you can't see the difference between Larry Brown and what Foles did then you didn't see the game. The MVP itself isn't what matters, it's what Foles did to earn it. 

[flomoe]

How about Luck to the Bills for 21 OR 22, 56 and 96 plus we take on Lucks contract and still keep picks in each of the first 3 rounds,  which they just made space to do. Indy keeps #3 for Chubb plus gets additional picks, which they need bad  and sends #56 and a 5th for Foles. Philly gets under the cap and can select a backup QB in the 2nd(White or Falk) and everybody’s happy.

 

Just thinking out loud

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

If you can't see the difference between Larry Brown and what Foles did then you didn't see the game. The MVP itself isn't what matters, it's what Foles did to earn it. 

 

I know the difference. The point is what happens afterward as to whether excellent play can be sustained. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, flomoe said:

How about Luck to the Bills for 21 OR 22, 56 and 96 plus we take on Lucks contract and still keep picks in each of the first 3 rounds,  which they just made space to do. Indy keeps #3 for Chubb plus gets additional picks, which they need bad  and sends #56 and a 5th for Foles. Philly gets under the cap and can select a backup QB in the 2nd(White or Falk) and everybody’s happy.

 

Just thinking out loud

Sign me up

[TPS]

I fully expected the Bills to trade for Foles after trading Tyrod, since they obviously have a replacement plan, and I fully expected it within 24 hours of the Taylor trade.  It seems to me they would've had a deal in place, and executed it quickly.  Since it hasn't been done (though there's still a little time), I'm guessing they will go with a FA signing, and they already have that in place. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

If you can't see the difference between Larry Brown and what Foles did then you didn't see the game. The MVP itself isn't what matters, it's what Foles did to earn it. 

I understand that.  Foles is not Larry Brown, but three very good playoff games does not erase five years of erratic NFL quarterbacking.  He’s not all of a sudden a franchise QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I understand that.  Foles is not Larry Brown, but three very good playoff games does not erase five years of erratic NFL quarterbacking.  He’s not all of a sudden a franchise QB.

 

Erratic. Good word choice.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

I don't think Philly has a choice, they have to trade him. They're up against the cap. I think 53 and 65 could get it done. I would part with 22 and 158 if I had to. Still much cheaper than trading up for Rosen or whoever else.

 

Trading Foles is neither necessary nor sufficient to cure Philly's cap problems.  They only save $5M by trading him, and they need $10.9

They have other options to find that $10M they need

 

Now whether they decide they benefit more by trading Foles, or by other actions....can't tell you...

 

Look for Philly to make further cap moves before March 14th to show they're serious that they won't move Foles unless someone backs up a truckload of picks for him.

Possibilities include

-cut or trade Brent Celek (savings: $4M)

-renegotiate contract with Brandon Graham or trade him, converting part of $7M salary to prorated bonus Possible savings $3-7M

-renegotiate contract with Michael Bennett, converting $5M roster bonus and part of next year's $6M salary to amortized signing bonus.  Possible savings $3-4M

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, flomoe said:

How about Luck to the Bills for 21 OR 22, 56 and 96 plus we take on Lucks contract and still keep picks in each of the first 3 rounds,  which they just made space to do. Indy keeps #3 for Chubb plus gets additional picks, which they need bad  and sends #56 and a 5th for Foles. Philly gets under the cap and can select a backup QB in the 2nd(White or Falk) and everybody’s happy.

 

Just thinking out loud

 

How about we think this through?  If Luck is through in Indy it's for one reason: he's not healthy, and they don't see him getting there any time soon

[dpberr]

Imo, the Eagles aren't trading their opening day starter. There's no guarantee Wentz will be ready and I think the alleged "confidence" in Sudfeld is fanboy rationalization in support of getting Foles.

 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I know the difference. The point is what happens afterward as to whether excellent play can be sustained. 

I don't disagree. We know that Larry Brown had a mediocre QB throw a pass right to him. In an otherwise non descript SuperBowl by the victors, he was the only choice. We don't know if Foles can sustain the level of play he displayed in SB. If obtaining Foles is deemed the correct move by the FO while drafting a rookie at or near their original draft spot, I'll give it a chance to play out. The cost to move from 21 into the top two is going to be high . Very high. The risk is increased greatly with every high pick they give up in exchange. Careers are made and execs get fired over these type moves. I'm sure they've given all options a lot of thought. We will see what they decide . We do know this is an interesting and exciting time for the franchise. 

[RochesterRob]

18 minutes ago, flomoe said:

How about Luck to the Bills for 21 OR 22, 56 and 96 plus we take on Lucks contract and still keep picks in each of the first 3 rounds,  which they just made space to do. Indy keeps #3 for Chubb plus gets additional picks, which they need bad  and sends #56 and a 5th for Foles. Philly gets under the cap and can select a backup QB in the 2nd(White or Falk) and everybody’s happy.

 

Just thinking out loud

  I am a little skeptical about Luck's recovery and a small part of me makes me think that was in part why McDaniels did a 180 back to NE.  Also, Luck gets to play 8 games in a dome along with a game in Houston (dome), Tennessee, and Jacksonville which are sites that usually do not have adverse weather.  I don't know if Luck can deliver his normal stats in the AFC East and inter-conferenece games with the NFCE and NFCN.

Edited March 10, 2018 by RochesterRob

[gobillsinytown]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Wow.......they have some issues.  I'm glad they beat the Patriots, but they've gotta be working overtime right now.  

So Foles and Cousins are the two top free agent QB's.  I don't think Beane and McDermott would be willing to sacrifice the cap space for either one.  So as of now all signs point to the draft and maybe bringing in a vetran.

 

 

"Trading Foles is neither necessary nor sufficient to cure Philly's cap problems.  They only save $5M by trading him, and they need $10.9

They have other options to find that $10M they need

 

Now whether they decide they benefit more by trading Foles, or by other actions....can't tell you...

 

Look for Philly to make further cap moves before March 14th to show they're serious that they won't move Foles unless someone backs up a truckload of picks for him.

Possibilities include

-cut or trade Brent Celek (savings: $4M)

-renegotiate contract with Brandon Graham or trade him, converting part of $7M salary to prorated bonus Possible savings $3-7M

-renegotiate contract with Michael Bennett, converting $5M roster bonus and part of next year's $6M salary to amortized signing bonus.  Possible savings $3-4M"

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by gobillsinytown

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Putting him in a RPO offense, rather than a standard pro set, seemed to do wonders for Foles.   I wonder how many guys are misused throughout their careers by trying to pound square pegs into round holes...

Tbat ogfense requires on-field dwcision making.  He's shown he can do it.  That thinking skill is very valuable. 

[Domdab99]

23 minutes ago, mannc said:

Larry Brown was also a super bowl MVP.

 

And what kind of contract did he get after he was?

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Imo, the Eagles aren't trading their opening day starter. There's no guarantee Wentz will be ready and I think the alleged "confidence" in Sudfeld is fanboy rationalization in support of getting Foles.

 

Philly has got cap issues and might find the best way out is another backup with a smaller contract.  Even if the backup has to start the first quarter of the season.  Who knows but no fanboy logic with me.