2017 Draft - A missed opportunity

[Cubanmist 1]

In the eyes of many, 2017 was fairly a good draft for us. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that we should have utilized our first round pick on Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes. We had no business trading our pick to KC knowing that we have a QB issue. Sure, White is a very good CB, but again we had pressing needs. Now, we are faced with the possibility of not being able to draft a good QB this year. What do you’ll think. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Cubanmist 1

[eball]

This is an interesting topic you've raised.  I wonder why nobody has discussed it before?

 

Oh, wait....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

24 minutes ago, eball said:

This is an interesting topic you've raised.  I wonder why nobody has discussed it before?

 

Oh, wait....

And in Off the Wall 

 

It must be in protest to Boyst's pimped out tractor thread on the main board 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

We should have traded with Houston not KC....

[KDIGGZ]

6 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

We should have traded with Houston not KC....

I said that on draft day and people scoffed at it. Houston was clearly going to be drafting higher. I expected the Chiefs to win 11 games and pick around 25 and Texans picking top 15. It was a no brainer

[xRUSHx]

They missed the boat on Watson for sure, jury still out on Mahomes but that's two strikes if he also lights up the league. I wish my team had a real QB.

[The Now Moment]

If they couldn't use Tyrod to his full abilities what makes you believe they'd be able to use Watson to his full abilities?  They were looking for a different type of QB.  That's why I think Lamar Jackson is not an option this year, they want the pocket passer. Blame them all you want but they are waiting for their guy and could get it in year two which is better than any other regime has done for this team in the last couple decades.  It's not all about talent.  The fit needs to be right and that is especially true for QB.  

[xRUSHx]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

If they couldn't use Tyrod to his full abilities what makes you believe they'd be able to use Watson to his full abilities?  They were looking for a different type of QB.  That's why I think Lamar Jackson is not an option this year, they want the pocket passer. Blame them all you want but they are waiting for their guy and could get it in year two which is better than any other regime has done for this team in the last couple decades.  It's not all about talent.  The fit needs to be right and that is especially true for QB.  

You talking about a QBs abilities that he should be able to be a QB? I agree it sure would be nice to have a QB teams worry about him being a QB over the one we have now that teams force to be one and he ends up with a FG after a full game.

 

QBs do not fall from the sky, if they want one they have to go get him, I sure hope this is the off season we get a QB that can be a QB.

Edited February 22, 2018 by xRUSHx

[gobillsinytown]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

If they couldn't use Tyrod to his full abilities what makes you believe they'd be able to use Watson to his full abilities?  They were looking for a different type of QB.  That's why I think Lamar Jackson is not an option this year, they want the pocket passer. Blame them all you want but they are waiting for their guy and could get it in year two which is better than any other regime has done for this team in the last couple decades.  It's not all about talent.  The fit needs to be right and that is especially true for QB.  

 

It seems like they want the passing offense to be based on an accurate pocket passer who can make quick reads and have a quick release.  The Eagles and Pats* offenses are based on that concept.  Other teams have tried basing their offense on a running quarterback and so far it doesn't seem to work long term.   It all makes sense to me, but they can't seem to find the QB that can actually execute it.

[BringBackFergy]

40 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

I said that on draft day and people scoffed at it. Houston was clearly going to be drafting higher. I expected the Chiefs to win 11 games and pick around 25 and Texans picking top 15. It was a no brainer

Link?

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, BringBackFergy said:

Link?

if someone knows how to search the archives they will find it in the thread talking about the trade up.  when I search my posts it seems to only go back so far

[BringBackFergy]

4 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

if someone knows how to search the archives they will find it in the thread talking about the trade up.  when I search my posts it seems to only go back so far

Yeah, suuuuure.

 

 

[The Now Moment]

19 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

You talking about a QBs abilities that he should be able to be a QB? I agree it sure would be nice to have a QB teams worry about him being a QB over the one we have now that teams force to be one and he ends up with a FG after a full game.

 

QBs do not fall from the sky, if they want one they have to go get him, I sure hope this is the off season we get a QB that can be a QB.

So they passed on a guy who looked to have a similar skillset but better at it than Tyrod.  They didn't know how to use Tyrod so why would they get Watson?  They waited until this class, one year, where there is a ton of QBs.  They have the assets to trade up and get their guy.  I really don't see the problem with passing on Watson.  He's not the type of QB they want.  They clearly want more of a pocket passer.  

 

No QBs don't fall from the sky but this class was rated very highly and they waited one year and made the playoffs that year...I just don't see what there is to complain about.  Plus, Watson tore his leg up after a handful of games.  That's not making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside about his future. 

20 minutes ago, gobillsinytown said:

 

It seems like they want the passing offense to be based on an accurate pocket passer who can make quick reads and have a quick release.  The Eagles and Pats* offenses are based on that concept.  Other teams have tried basing their offense on a running quarterback and so far it doesn't seem to work long term.   It all makes sense to me, but they can't seem to find the QB that can actually execute it.

I agree 100%.  Honestly, I think Rosen would be the best fit for that type of scheme out of the players in this class.  He needs to bulk up though.  

[KDIGGZ]

12 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Yeah, suuuuure.

 

 

here you go a-hole

I posted it in a few different threads but this was the first i was able to find and it took me like 20 min so you're welcome!

 

Posted April 28, 2017

I agree with them. Chiefs will pick around same spot next year. A late 1st round 25th isn't the same as a top 10-15 pick obviously. I think we needed to get a 2nd rounder this year to say we "hosed them." A 3rd is like ehh ok.

 

Cleveland will have pick 1 and a top 15 since they traded with Houston who is going to stink this year.

 

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

I said that on draft day and people scoffed at it. Houston was clearly going to be drafting higher. I expected the Chiefs to win 11 games and pick around 25 and Texans picking top 15. It was a no brainer

The browns got lucky that Watson got hurt or the Texans may have been in the playoffs too. He was THAT good.  I wasn’t sold on any of the QBs last year.  After watching Watson beat Baja I thought he was sure to be the #1 pick.  Then I read his fastball was one of the slowest ever recorded at the combine and was scared off.  Dam combine.  I thought he was the most impressive player in the entire league last year.

Edited February 22, 2018 by NewEra

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 Row small got lucky that Watson got hurt or they may have been in the playoffs too. He was THAT good.  I wasn’t sold on any of the QBs last year.  After watching Watson beat Baja I thought he was sure to be the #1 pick.  Then I read his fastball was one of the slowest ever recorded at the combine and was scared off.  Dam combine.  I thought he was the most impressive player in the entire league last year.

Houston used similar playcalling to what Clemson used.  It was more tailored to his abilities.  Teams haven't seen a lot of that type of college playcalling from other teams in the league.  I'm sure it helped him be more successful year one.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Nah, I would rather have drafted Tom Brady in the 2000 and not have this discussion again...

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 Row small got lucky that Watson got hurt or they may have been in the playoffs too. He was THAT good.  I wasn’t sold on any of the QBs last year.  After watching Watson beat Baja I thought he was sure to be the #1 pick.  Then I read his fastball was one of the slowest ever recorded at the combine and was scared off.  Dam combine.  I thought he was the most impressive player in the entire league last year.

 

Yup.  And if the Bills had traded down with Houston, the Bills fans in me says that Watson would have stayed healthy and taken them to the playoffs and the Chefs would have bombed. 

 

But it's way too early to say that either Watson or Mahomes will be franchise QB's, Mahomes especially since he's proven almost nothing.  Watson looked good, but it seems that most QB's that suffer serious injuries early in their careers never end up amounting to much.  I guess we'll see. 

[NewEra]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  And if the Bills had traded down with Houston, the Bills fans in me says that Watson would have stayed healthy and taken them to the playoffs and the Chefs would have bombed. 

 

But it's way too early to say that either Watson or Mahomes will be franchise QB's, Mahomes especially since he's proven almost nothing.  Watson looked good, but it seems that most QB's that suffer serious injuries early in their careers never end up amounting to much.  I guess we'll see. 

No doubt.  

[FearLess Price]

It depends on what the Bills do with the draft capital this year.

 

Example: if the Bills trade up for Rosen and he becomes our franchise QB with a solid rookie year and improves like Wentz did year 2, than the trade worked out for us, even if Mahomes becomes Favre pt2, and Watson becomes another great young QB.

 

The ball is officially in our court. We waited a year to draft a QB.  We f'd up and made the playofds but we can still trade up. Now or never Buffalo. Make a move.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

It depends on what the Bills do with the draft capital this year.

 

Example: if the Bills trade up for Rosen and he becomes our franchise QB with a solid rookie year and improves like Wentz did year 2, than the trade worked out for us, even if Mahomes becomes Favre pt2, and Watson becomes another great young QB.

 

The ball is officially in our court. We waited a year to draft a QB.  We f'd up and made the playofds but we can still trade up. Now or never Buffalo. Make a move.

 

Not worth what it would take to move up.

[whatdrought]

Watson is the prototypical example of not recognizing "it" in a player. Not seeing when everything jives and works exactly right to produce a stud. Problem with those guys is that they're very much boom or bust. The Texans took him because they were desperate. We weren't. Getting a stud CB then was more important to us than taking a risk on a QB (not to mention an extra first.) 

Meanwhile, I don't know that anyone has seen enough of Mahomes to anoint him a success. 

 

[FearLess Price]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Not worth what it would take to move up.

 

They could do it in 2 moves like the Eagles did. Im sure phili doesnt regret trading up for Wentz.

 

The problem is we might get a bust. If we hit on the QB we trade up for, all is forgiven.

 

If we miss.....woof....heads will roll.

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Cubanmist 1 said:

In the eyes of many, 2017 was fairly a good draft for us. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that we should have utilized our first round pick on Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes. We had no business trading our pick to KC knowing that we have a QB issue. Sure, White is a very good CB, but again we had pressing needs. Now, we are faced with the possibility of not being able to draft a good QB this year. What do you’ll think. 

They haven't even combined for a full season of play. Still way too soon to say missed opportunity. Especially when we end up with a darn good football player in White. Lets see what we end up with before passing judgement.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

 

2 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said:

They haven't even combined for a full season of play. Still way too soon to say missed opportunity. Especially when we end up with a darn good football player in White. Lets see what we end up with before passing judgement.

It absolutely is too soon to declare Watson a success.  People forget that Vince Young and RG3 were great their rookie years.  That said, if I was McDermott and I could have that  1oth overall back, I am taking Watson all day long.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

They could do it in 2 moves like the Eagles did. Im sure phili doesnt regret trading up for Wentz.

 

The problem is we might get a bust. If we hit on the QB we trade up for, all is forgiven.

 

If we miss.....woof....heads will roll.

 

The Eagles moved up from 13th to 8th to 2nd.  That's a lot more doable.

[Pete]

How can you complain about Tradavious and a 1st this year?  Who will we draft at 22?  Perhaps Lamar Jackson or Allen- and perhaps whomever the QB we draft at 22 will become a top NFL QB and better then Mahomes and Watson.   Did you ever consider that?  

Edited February 22, 2018 by Pete

[simool]

5 hours ago, Cubanmist 1 said:

In the eyes of many, 2017 was fairly a good draft for us. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that we should have utilized our first round pick on Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes. We had no business trading our pick to KC knowing that we have a QB issue. Sure, White is a very good CB, but again we had pressing needs. Now, we are faced with the possibility of not being able to draft a good QB this year. What do you’ll think. 

 

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/22/2018 at 4:23 AM, Cubanmist 1 said:

In the eyes of many, 2017 was fairly a good draft for us. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that we should have utilized our first round pick on Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes. We had no business trading our pick to KC knowing that we have a QB issue. Sure, White is a very good CB, but again we had pressing needs. Now, we are faced with the possibility of not being able to draft a good QB this year. What do you’ll think. 

 

Except nothing you wrote is actually known...at least not yet.  Mahomes has done nothing in the NFL yet, and all Watson has done is tear his second ACL.  All this stuff about crowning guys before they have earned anything is ridiculous, its like no one learns from previous mistakes in this matter.  

 

Remember RG3?  He's not even in the league anymore despite his huge start to his career and he is under 30.  

Remember Kap?  He's not even in the league anymore despite his huge start to his career and near SB win and he is under 30.

Remember Vince Young?  ROY who was out to the league before he was 30.

 

Funny thing is no one here would touch any of those 3 guys right now, yet they all started out with early success.

 

I am in NO WAY saying Watson or Mahomes will flame out.  What I am saying is that its crazy to crown these guys the next greatest thing before they have done much in the NFL or had any sustained success.  And Watson, who I love to watch play, is an athletic QB who now has 2 major knee injuries before he even completed a season.  He got hot for a few games, and good for him, it was great to see.  But we don't know how he will do over a sustained career, and now he has to try and do it after his second bad knee injury.

 

And worse yet, you don't know what QB will be here...could be Cousins, could be a guy we draft (most likely draft).  And if that QB ends up being BETTER than both Watson and Mahomes and we STILL got Tre, then it was by FAR the best move.  So cant really say we missed an opportunity yet because there is no where near enough information to be able to do so. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Sweats]

When you’ve passed on quality QB’s over the past 20 yrs, what’s another seaon in the big picture.

[Pete]

24 minutes ago, Sweats said:

When you’ve passed on quality QB’s over the past 20 yrs, what’s another seaon in the big picture.

which quality QB's have the Bills passed on?  I will give you Russel Wilson and Dak.  But what other quality QB did we not draft tha last 20 years.  The fact is there are not many quality QB's in the NFL

[greenwithenvy]

I keep seeing this line of thought pop up but it ignores 1 major issue.  They were never going to let dead-man-walking Doug Whaley choose the teams next franchise QB.

 

They want their people to have an opportunity to properly evaluate the prospects before they tie their career to one.  Basing the biggest decision a franchise makes on information from a bunch of people on the way out the door is dumb.

 

Instead, they made sure to give themselves the necessary ammo this year, once they have had a chance to do their own evaluations.

 

Maybe Mahomes/Watson end up being studs.  The Bills picking them was never a realistic option.

Edited February 22, 2018 by greenwithenvy

[BuffaLoko]

On 2/22/2018 at 6:40 AM, eball said:

This is an interesting topic you've raised.  I wonder why nobody has discussed it before?

 

Oh, wait....

eball, you just single-handedly saved the party! without your inquiring mind and ability to step up, these thread had the potential to grow up to  237 pages!! 

this bud is for you! 

[SoTier]

On 2/22/2018 at 7:23 AM, Cubanmist 1 said:

In the eyes of many, 2017 was fairly a good draft for us. However, I believe in my heart of hearts that we should have utilized our first round pick on Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes. We had no business trading our pick to KC knowing that we have a QB issue. Sure, White is a very good CB, but again we had pressing needs. Now, we are faced with the possibility of not being able to draft a good QB this year. What do you’ll think. 

 

Hindsight is always 20-20.  IIRC most of TBD was on board with the trade back because they figured the Bills would win 4-5 games and KC would take a major nose dive, too, so the Bills would have 2 picks in the top dozen in 2018.  I guess their crystal balls were a bit defective, huh?

[OldTimer1960]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:33 AM, xRUSHx said:

They missed the boat on Watson for sure, jury still out on Mahomes but that's two strikes if he also lights up the league. I wish my team had a real QB.

It isn’t even for sure that they were wrong on Watson.  He certainly had a GREAT start, but it was a very limited sample and there have been lots of guys who have a good start, but fade when NFL defenses figure out how to game-plan them.

 

I am NOT saying that will happen to Watson, but there is definitely a chance it could.

On 2/22/2018 at 1:07 PM, Pete said:

which quality QB's have the Bills passed on?  I will give you Russel Wilson and Dak.  But what other quality QB did we not draft tha last 20 years.  The fact is there are not many quality QB's in the NFL

Right on.

On 2/22/2018 at 1:22 PM, greenwithenvy said:

I keep seeing this line of thought pop up but it ignores 1 major issue.  They were never going to let dead-man-walking Doug Whaley choose the teams next franchise QB.

 

They want their people to have an opportunity to properly evaluate the prospects before they tie their career to one.  Basing the biggest decision a franchise makes on information from a bunch of people on the way out the door is dumb.

 

Instead, they made sure to give themselves the necessary ammo this year, once they have had a chance to do their own evaluations.

 

Maybe Mahomes/Watson end up being studs.  The Bills picking them was never a realistic option.

Not sure that they do have the necessary ammo.  I don’t think they have the draft picks to get to the 2nd to 4th pick to get Darnold or Rosen - at least not that I would be willing to give up.  Of course, if they are willing to give up several high picks this year and next year, they might be able get there, but that is too rich for my blood.

[SoTier]

On 2/22/2018 at 1:07 PM, Pete said:

which quality QB's have the Bills passed on?  I will give you Russel Wilson and Dak.  But what other quality QB did we not draft tha last 20 years.  The fact is there are not many quality QB's in the NFL

 

Well, they didn't take Brees or Brady in 2000, and they let Jay Cutler get away in 2006, not to mention Joe Flacco in 2008 and Andy Dalton in 2011.     Of course, they also passed on such gems as Matt Leinart, Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiler, Colin Kaepernick, Geno Smith so it pretty much balances out IMO.  The only two QBs I'm po'd about the Bills screwing up with were giving up the 2005 first to trade back to take Losman, thus missing out on a shot at Aaron Rodgers, and passing on Russell Wilson for TJ Graham! 

[Mikie2times]

I was pro Watson early last year. I just think at some point these scouts get analysis paralysis. Watson shredded the top defense in the country back to back seasons on the biggest stage. He wasn't as run prone as some think, pretty neutral, did a ton of damage with his arm. Took a Clemson to the first NC in 35 years and B2B NC's. This against a Power 5 Schedule. At that point if he has a clean head and doesn't have a noodle arm, let it be. He passes the test. 

[Mr. WEO]

so what do you think about Kirk Cousins?

[PIZ]

It will be worth it if our new 2018 QB turns out better than Watson and Mahomes.

[bmur66]

I really think they expected to be in a  much better draft position this year. There was absolutely no depth behind Shady and other key positions.They traded Watkins. Who really expected Shady to stay healthy all season and to ride him all of the way to the playoffs? They overachieved.