Should the Pegulas Cash Out?

[TheFunPolice]

Tim Murray really blew the fruits of the tank, many of which were left by Darcy.

 

Murray is the shopper who goes to the grocery store with $100 and comes back with burgers and frozen French fries and has no idea where the rest of the money went.

[bbb]

All my life, the Bills moving has been hanging over my city like the Sword of Damocles. 

 

All my life, all anybody wanted was an owner for the Sabres and Bills who would spend their money, hire people to do the hockey and football operations, and get out of the way.

 

We have all that now, and all I hear is anti-Pegula crap.  I get the teams are horrible right now, but they spent the money.  The people they hired screwed the teams up. 

[TheFunPolice]

THE BILLS SITUATION IS NOT HORRIBLE!

 

 

Extremely rich owners committed to keeping the team here

5-5 record

2 1st round picks next season

2 2nd round picks next season

plenty of cap room and an owner who likes to spend

Benjamin under contract for 2018.

 

And even after gutting the team a bit, a decent mathematical chance to sneak into the playoffs THIS YEAR.

 

THAT is horrible? THAT is depressing? LOL

 

 

[Beast]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

Maybe some of you should cash out as fans?  Just sayin’. 

 

Why should I?

 

I have been a better fan than the Pegula’s have been owners.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

THE BILLS SITUATION IS NOT HORRIBLE!

 

 

Extremely rich owners committed to keeping the team here

5-5 record

2 1st round picks next season

2 2nd round picks next season

plenty of cap room and an owner who likes to spend

Benjamin under contract for 2018.

 

And even after gutting the team a bit, a decent mathematical chance to sneak into the playoffs THIS YEAR.

 

THAT is horrible? THAT is depressing? LOL

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Why should I?

 

I have been a better fan than the Pegula’s have been owners.

 

 

No you haven't.

 

[GreggTX]

Only Bills fans LOL. I guess firing everyone half way through their first season isn't good enough. Let's sell the owners too!

 

Why don't people see it? It's all about 2018.

 

The Pegulas will be fine as long as they're willing to spend. They just need to find the right GM and HC to spend it on.

[Kelly the Dog]

Well, Coach, you're one of my favorite posters, and thanks to row_33, you didn't win "Lameass Dunderhead Post of the Day!"

[CanadianFan]

 

1 hour ago, CanadianFan said:

 

Here's a graph of the impact Tim Leiweke had on three Toronto sports franchises:

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by CanadianFan

[GreggTX]

28 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

THE BILLS SITUATION IS NOT HORRIBLE!

 

 

Extremely rich owners committed to keeping the team here

5-5 record

2 1st round picks next season

2 2nd round picks next season

plenty of cap room and an owner who likes to spend

Benjamin under contract for 2018.

 

And even after gutting the team a bit, a decent mathematical chance to sneak into the playoffs THIS YEAR.

 

THAT is horrible? THAT is depressing? LOL

 

 

Exactly. You have to look at the bigger picture. They knew they'd tank when they let Dareus go, though maybe not so much. Tyrod is soon to follow and perhaps Shady too. Shaq as well if he doesn't start playing better.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

Exactly. You have to look at the bigger picture. They knew they'd tank when they let Dareus go, though maybe not so much. Tyrod is soon to follow and perhaps Shady too. Shaq as well if he doesn't start playing better.

 

bring it. burn it to the studs. with the exception of shady they're all garbage, but no point in keeping shady if you're tearing it all down.

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Can't quibble about any other part of your post, but how was Aaron Rodgers "easily obtainable" when we didn't possess a first round pick in the 2005 draft? 

The same way they got the extra first for JP. Trade this year's second and next year's first.

Or, maybe something closer to what they did to get McCargo at 26 overall, a second and third. (Rodgers went at 24)

Or, they could have not pushed it and traded away that first round pick for JP to begin with.

 

If it was a second and third, that is not so high a price when you are not sure you have the next guy on your roster. And there was no way to be sure JP was the next guy.

 

But you have a point, that is in hindsight. Nobody knew Aaron Rodgers would be Aaron Rodgers, except the draft gurus I guess.

 

This will be painful to review! They could have just went with Drew Bledsoe for another year until a blue chip prospect came along.

Not having done that, they could have probably traded that year's second and next years first to get Aaron Rodgers, who was a blue chip prospect that fell down the board for reasons I still don't know completely.

 

Trading that year's second would have cost them Roscoe Parrish.

That year's third would cost them Kevin Everett.

 

Next year's first would have been either Donte Whitner or John McCargo.

 

So I get your point they sure wouldn't have wanted to go out and do that again, trade up again the very next year.

 

But it wouldn't have cost them an arm and a leg either way.

 

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Why should I?

 

I have been a better fan than the Pegula’s have been owners.

 

 

....so in other words, the Pegulas have been the meddlesome owners of the Bills, sticking their fingers into everything as only Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder do?......got it......best thing that could happen is TP calls Bon Jovi and says, "write me a check for whatever you want"......and New Era becomes end of THE era.......at least it would put crap like this to bed forever...........

Edited November 21, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

This sort of discussion quickly breaks down into unyielding positions coming from two camps.

 

First, we have the fans who are just happy to have teams in Buffalo, and they are willing to forgive anything, including the team sucking, as long as it is in Buffalo.  They approach the entire debate from an assumed position of weakness, like we are just Buffalo and can't really expect or hope for more than crap anyway. 

 

Second, you have the fans who demand more than that.

 

Put me in the second category.   

 

Run the franchises correctly or sell.  If market forces move the teams, so be it.

 

Who here is crying every day over the loss of the  Buffalo Braves?

 

Time heals all wounds; it might take a generation, but people in WNY will forget all about the Bills soon enough, particularly when all Buffalo Bills fans are dead.

 

 

You guys are Soft. Mushy. Cynical. Y'all can push to sell the team and build a new age crystal and aroma therapy stadium to gather in and commune with the universe when my bunch is under the turf. But til then we are not dead yet porky.

 

 

[Real McClappy]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You're half right.  The problem here and the problem in America is that the internet gives trolls the ability to broadcast their deranged thoughts to the rest of the species.

AS well as you Coach.

Not that Terry would ever read this BS but what would he think of your hot take right now if he did? How about giving McD at least 2-3 years before tweaking out on ownership? 

I do think the Rex Ryan hiring was a rookie owner mistake but not going to throw him under the bus like you. It does not matter what you, myself or the media says, they straight up OWN the Buffalo Bills and Sabres and can honestly do whatever the F they want with it. Crying about ownership on a forum does jack ****.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Real McCoy

[mead107]

For all you wacky people just !@#$ing leave. 

 

Go some place else.   

 

Does your work and family life suck also?  

 

Most of you just say crap to piss people off because you are keyboard wacks. 

Do you even come to the games? 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

22 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

AS well as you Coach.

Not that Terry would ever read this BS but what would he think of your hot take right now if he did? How about giving McD at least 2-3 years before tweaking out on ownership? 

I do think the Rex Ryan hiring was a rookie owner mistake but not going to throw him under the bus like you. It does not matter what you, myself or the media says, they straight up OWN the Buffalo Bills and Sabres and can honestly do whatever the F they want with it. Crying about ownership on a forum does jack ****.

 

....uh oh....a "voice of reason" in the PG-13 mud puddle.......Wrecks hiring was a Brandon move.....saw the texts to his buddies (who I know) saying, "so what do you think?"....I threw up in my car seat.....exactly why Pegula kicked him upstairs as Prez of Pegula Sport Entertainment TOTALLY out of operations, focusing SOLELY on business administration.....Pegula paid $1.4 billion for the Bills, $165 mil for the Sabres, built the Harbor Centre for $190 mil for starters and the guy is NOT committed to winning as well as Buffalo?....naw, the guy is effin' clueless........

Edited November 21, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Real McClappy]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....uh oh....a "voice of reason" in the PG-13 mud puddle.......Wrecks hiring was a Brandon move.....saw the texts to his buddies (who I know) saying, "so what do you think?"....I threw up in my car seat.....exactly why Pegula kicked him upstairs as Prez of Pegula Sport Entertainment TOTALLY out of operations, focusing SOLELY on business administration.....Pegula paid $1.4 billion for the Bills, $165 mil for the Sabres, built the Harbor Centre for $190 mil for starters and the guy is NOT committed to winning as well as Buffalo?....naw, the guy is effin' clueless........

What ever, this is your Hot take as well. We have some serious ignorant ass fans on these forums. I can't believe I even read this ****

 

Just sad all around. Why not find another team to root for instead of Pegula's Bills if he's so F'ing clueless.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Real McCoy

[fansince88]

Such a windbag of positivity.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

Well this got some action...

[fansince88]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Well this got some action...

HAHA!

 

[Lfod]

Long time lurker but I am real new account on this board. Less than a week. I've limited myself to just commenting on topics. I did this out of respect to all the long term posters who have populated this board. I just sprinkle in my opinions.

 

The answer your question, the last owner owned the Bills until he passed away. I don't think the option to just buy an NFL franchise comes along very often. It also costs a lot of money not a lot of people will ever come by. Thinking logical I say best to just get used to the owners we have now because I doubt they go anywhere in a very long time. 

[Fadingpain]

9 hours ago, ALF said:

I vote no , let McD and Beane have 5 years to rebuild . There staff is not good so far.

 

If the Pegulas spend big time on both there teams scouting departments it will work. 

They have already done that with both organizations with very little to show for it.

 

To his credit, Pegula dumped money into both organizations every way he could without having to deal with a cap problem.

 

So facilities, scouting departments, resources, coaching salaries...that stuff was all pumped up right away.

 

Not much to show for it however.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Dunkirk Don said:

Yes, we should sell the team to Bon Jovi and move the team to Toronto so the fans of Buffalo won't have to complain any more. 

 

I think a lot of posters would be happier if that occurred so they could say 'I told you so!'

[BillsFan4]

How can you possibly say that the first time GM and head coach combos have failed miserably already? 

 

They are 10 and 20 games in to their tenures. Just under 2/3rds of a single season for McBeane, and 1/4 of a single season for Botterill and Housley... 

 

Neither have had a chance to build the team they want. Beane hasn't even had a draft or free agency yet (he came roughly 2 months after it had started). Botterill had 1 draft, after only 1 month on the job, with all of Tim Murray's old scouts who had been scouting for Tim Murray type players all year (although Botterill sure seems to have made the best of a less than ideal situation. The Mittelstadt pick looks like it could be a home run). 

 

The way way I look at it - the Pegulas only recently put the people in place, from top to bottom, that they truly wanted. 

 

They gave Whaley and Regier a chance to put their current teams over the top by opening the check books in a way we have NEVER seen in Buffalo. When have the Bills or Sabres EVER been cap teams? It may have happened in a random year or two, but they were both almost Always internal budget teams. We hired cheap coaches, cheap GMs, cheap scouts (and in the Sabres case they actually scouted off video tape!) etc etc. 

 

When that didn't work out, they cleaned house and brought in the people they wanted. For the Bills it's McDermott and Beane. For the Sabres it was LaFontaine, which only lasted 2 months and then they were more/less stuck with Tim Murray. So they gave him a chance, and made the change to the guy they wanted - Jason Botterill. 

 

So lets maybe give them more than 1/4 to 2/3rds of a season, yeah? 

 

I think the Pegulas have been great for Buffalo. When have either of our sports teams ever been able to compete, salary wise, with the big boys of the league? As I said above, we used to go after the cheap hires and cheap feee agents. We'd watch our best players leave over monetary reasons. Remember when the Sabres were a true Cup contender and Presidents trophy team ('06 & '07) and we watched both of our co-captains and best players walk in the same offseason (Briere & Drury)? Remember when they used to try and recruit free agents by sending them a coach class plane ticket? Now they recruit with a private plane and yacht + the nicest facilities in both the NFL & NHL (locker rooms, gyms etc). Remember when we had bare bones staffs and put no focus on player development? Now we are on the cutting edge of the league with technology and player development staffs.

 

I could go on and on about all the money they've poured in... and that's not even mentioning all the good they've done for the city of Buffalo. The businesses they've built, the jobs they've added etc. 

 

They are new owners. They may make a mistake here and there but I have faith they will get it right. I am perfectly happy with our billionaire owners, who are also big fans of the teams they bought, and I am thankful that both of those teams futures are cemented in Buffalo for a very long time (as they've already said their kids will eventually take over once they are gone). 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Wonder why St. Doug wanted Whaley gone.

 

I'd have rather kept the Saint than Whaley.

 

 

 

Got nothing to say about Pegula giving Dareus' agent a sweetheart deal because of their prior relationship?  

 

TPegs has a history of being generous to a fault in his sports business dealings........he wants people to like him in THIS endeavor in his life.........but the bottom line is that it's still a business and while millions of dollars are a drop in the bucket to him.......waving that money around can sometimes work against the goal of winning.  

 

For a guy like Rex......a bit weary after a beating as HC in NY.........that fat 5 year contract was a huge disincentive.    Not putting restrictions in Marcell's contract might have made his friend the agent happy but it was a disincentive for Dareus to work hard.

 

You can't just buy results in pro sports.........at some point you have to make good football decisions and that inevitably means learning how to dangle carrots even if that means your HC isn't going to be as comfortable around you while sipping scotch on your yacht.

 

You want to be THAT kind of boss.........fine.........hire someone to run your business and you can be that guy. 

 

I think Pegs wants to have his hands all up in it but he wants to be loved and respected.   And that's hard to do in pro sports.

Edited November 21, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Got nothing to say about Pegula giving Dareus' agent a sweetheart deal because of their prior relationship?  

 

TPegs has a history of being generous to a fault in his sports business dealings........he wants people to like him in THIS endeavor in his life.........but the bottom line is that it's still a business and while millions of dollars are a drop in the bucket to him.......waving that money around can sometimes work against the goal of winning.  

 

For a guy like Rex......a bit weary after a beating as HC in NY.........that fat 5 year contract was a huge disincentive.    Not putting restrictions in Marcell's contract might have made his friend the agent happy but it was a disincentive for Dareus to work hard.

 

You can't just buy results in pro sports.........at some point you have to make good football decisions and that inevitably means learning how to dangle carrots even if that means your HC isn't going to be as comfortable around you while sipping scotch on your yacht.

 

You want to be THAT kind of boss.........fine.........hire someone to run your business and you can be that guy. 

 

I think Pegs wants to have his hands all up in it but he wants to be loved and respected.   And that's hard to do in pro sports.

 

Hey you had no input when I asked who your "dream czar" was that's actually available.

 

You first.

 

[Peter]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Let me start by saying that I really like the Pegulas as people - they seem like good citizens and possess integrity and beneficence.  And yes, we as fans owe them gratitude for keeping both the Bills and Sabres afloat and in Buffalo.

 

All of that said, they are horrible owners.  They are well-intentioned and want to win, but clearly have no idea how to do it.  They have empowered the wrong people at the wrong times.  They have proven to be susceptible to good interviews at the expense of more sophisticated due diligence.  They have employed bizarre organizational structures that have undermined the few quality hires they have made.  They have supported borderline insane team building strategies that have resulted in a near-impossible run of sustained failure.  There does not seem to be any end to this trend on the horizon and I’m really struggling to understand what the plan is for turning the Bills and Sabres into winning franchises.  Certainly, pairing first-time GMs with first-time coaches has failed miserably for both teams and, in the case of the Bills, the decision to expel elite talent, rather than maximizing and supporting the talent on hand with quality coaching and added depth, has bombed in spectacular fashion.

 

In a word, they have destroyed two sports franchises.

 

I’m wondering if it’s time for Kim and Terry to look for sale partners for one or both teams.  Perhaps they could sell a majority stake and become passive minority owners (although the leagues may have some restrictions on this) or perhaps they should just sell outright.  I’d imagine at this point their investments have appreciated nicely.  Perhaps it is time for them to reap some of those gains and turn the businesses over to individuals or entities that know what they’re doing.

 

I know some of you will respond to let me know how ungrateful I am.  That’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinions.  My opinion is that the fans here deserve more than just “we kept the franchises in Buffalo” - rather, the fans, who give their hard-earned dollars to billionaires, deserve competence. We’re not getting competence.

 

In a word: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Not unless you want to risk Buffalo losing either or both teams.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Hey you had no input when I asked who your "dream czar" was that's actually available.

 

You first.

 

 

I don't need a dream czar.......the owner does........and his fellow owners told him that's what he needed.

 

That person has to have been a GM or HC with championship pedigree.   There are a bunch of those.

 

But if you think it makes more sense to hire a guy who has never been a HC..... who got fired as a DC six years ago.....and give him full control of your operations I guess you are just DFW and deserve exactly what you get.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I don't need a dream czar.......the owner does........and his fellow owners told him that's what he needed.

 

That person has to have been a GM or HC with championship pedigree.   There are a bunch of those.

 

But if you think it makes more sense to hire a guy who has never been a HC..... who got fired as a DC six years ago.....and give him full control of your operations I guess you are just DFW and deserve exactly what you get.

 

I'm hurt. No really.

 

How'd Parcells do as a czar, btw?

 

[bbb]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

I'm hurt. No really.

 

How'd Parcells do as a czar, btw?

 

 

Didn't he turn the Dolphins from a 1-15 team into a playoff team in one year? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, bbb said:

 

Didn't he turn the Dolphins from a 1-15 team into a playoff team in one year? 

Amazing what a tank year will do, huh.

Who'da thunk it?

 

[Playoffs?]

If the Pegula’s sell, the Bills and possibly Sabres leave Buffalo.  Is that what people want?

 

The Bills would be gone for sure.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I feel the need to correct the rampant apostrophe abuse in this thread.

 

it's PEGULAS. The Pegulas.

 

That's for you @26CornerBlitz.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Amazing what a tank year will do, huh.

Who'da thunk it?

 

 

 

You really have no recollection do you?

 

Hiring a successful football lifer to pick football people is not very common cuz owners want to play with their toy.

 

But the Pegula's were clueless about pro sports........this isn't Bob Kraft who grew up as a fan and season ticket holder..........the Pegula's had never been to a Bills home game until they bought the team.........and they lived right in OP during the SB era.    Not big football fans Joe.     

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You really have no recollection do you?

 

Hiring a successful football lifer to pick football people is not very common cuz owners want to play with their toy.

 

But the Pegula's were clueless about pro sports........this isn't Bob Kraft who grew up as a fan and season ticket holder..........the Pegula's had never been to a Bills home game until they bought the team.........and they lived right in OP during the SB era.    Not big football fans Joe.     

 

Do you like Bills football?

 

[GG]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You really have no recollection do you?

 

Hiring a successful football lifer to pick football people is not very common cuz owners want to play with their toy.

 

But the Pegula's were clueless about pro sports........this isn't Bob Kraft who grew up as a fan and season ticket holder..........the Pegula's had never been to a Bills home game until they bought the team.........and they lived right in OP during the SB era.    Not big football fans Joe.     

So you're saying that Pegula lied about having Bills season tickets whee they lived in the area?  And Kraft's season tickets made him more knowledgeable about football than Pegula who was PSUs football largest booster?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

So you're saying that Pegula lied about having Bills season tickets whee they lived in the area?  And Kraft's season tickets made him more knowledgeable about football than Pegula who was PSUs football largest booster?

 

Funny how someone hitting the lottery in the 6th round suddenly is a genius.

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

How can you possibly say that the first time GM and head coach combos have failed miserably already? 

 

They are 10 and 20 games in to their tenures. Just under 2/3rds of a single season for McBeane, and 1/4 of a single season for Botterill and Housley... 

 

Neither have had a chance to build the team they want. Beane hasn't even had a draft or free agency yet (he came roughly 2 months after it had started). Botterill had 1 draft, after only 1 month on the job, with all of Tim Murray's old scouts who had been scouting for Tim Murray type players all year (although Botterill sure seems to have made the best of a less than ideal situation. The Mittelstadt pick looks like it could be a home run). 

 

The way way I look at it - the Pegulas only recently put the people in place, from top to bottom, that they truly wanted. 

 

They gave Whaley and Regier a chance to put their current teams over the top by opening the check books in a way we have NEVER seen in Buffalo. When have the Bills or Sabres EVER been cap teams? It may have happened in a random year or two, but they were both almost Always internal budget teams. We hired cheap coaches, cheap GMs, cheap scouts (and in the Sabres case they actually scouted off video tape!) etc etc. 

 

When that didn't work out, they cleaned house and brought in the people they wanted. For the Bills it's McDermott and Beane. For the Sabres it was LaFontaine, which only lasted 2 months and then they were more/less stuck with Tim Murray. So they gave him a chance, and made the change to the guy they wanted - Jason Botterill. 

 

So lets maybe give them more than 1/4 to 2/3rds of a season, yeah? 

 

I think the Pegulas have been great for Buffalo. When have either of our sports teams ever been able to compete, salary wise, with the big boys of the league? As I said above, we used to go after the cheap hires and cheap feee agents. We'd watch our best players leave over monetary reasons. Remember when the Sabres were a true Cup contender and Presidents trophy team ('06 & '07) and we watched both of our co-captains and best players walk in the same offseason (Briere & Drury)? Remember when they used to try and recruit free agents by sending them a coach class plane ticket? Now they recruit with a private plane and yacht + the nicest facilities in both the NFL & NHL (locker rooms, gyms etc). Remember when we had bare bones staffs and put no focus on player development? Now we are on the cutting edge of the league with technology and player development staffs.

 

I could go on and on about all the money they've poured in... and that's not even mentioning all the good they've done for the city of Buffalo. The businesses they've built, the jobs they've added etc. 

 

They are new owners. They may make a mistake here and there but I have faith they will get it right. I am perfectly happy with our billionaire owners, who are also big fans of the teams they bought, and I am thankful that both of those teams futures are cemented in Buffalo for a very long time (as they've already said their kids will eventually take over once they are gone). 

Thank you for a great post.

[Bill_with_it]

This is a fantasic stupid thread.

[BillsFan4]

At least with the Pegulas I feel like there is a chance the Bills/Sabres can reach that ultimate goal of a championship and sustained success. 

 

I definitely didnt feel feel that way under the previous ownership of both teams. We never had owners willing to dedicate the budget and resources necessary to truly be a championship caliber team on a regular basis. 

 

We are a small market team that now has ownership who are willing to compete with the big market teams. That's an extremely unusual situation for a small market team. Most are internal budget teams with limited spending and resources, which makes it harder to compete with the big boys. 

 

We now know that money is no longer a huge road block to building a competitive team... IMO that's a big deal for a team in Buffalo. 

 

I still feel feel lucky to this day that the Pegulas bought both teams.