Should the Pegulas Cash Out?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I say the whole one buffalo thing is working. Both major spots teams are well aligned at being laughing stocks..

 

cant get much more aligned then that. Now the Sabres just need to trade Eichel and Kane because they don’t fit the system. 

[TheFunPolice]

The Pegulas are right around .500 as Bills owners and are dedicated to keeping the team here. Give me a break with this talk that they are totally incompetent.

 

They wanted to keep St. Doug but he quit when his attempted hatchet job of Whaley failed. 

 

 

A few weeks ago everything was great now they should sell the team... Grow up

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

The Pegulas are right around .500 as Bills owners and are dedicated to keeping the team here. Give me a break with this talk that they are totally incompetent.

 

They wanted to keep St. Doug but he quit when his attempted hatchet job of Whaley failed. 

 

 

A few weeks ago everything was great now they should sell the team... Grow up

 

Wonder why St. Doug wanted Whaley gone.

 

I'd have rather kept the Saint than Whaley.

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They've tried to do a lot of things over 20 years.

 

When incompetence is hiring incompetence, you get incompetence. Go figure.

I would say that for 20 years they have twice taken whatever the best available quarterback was available to draft in a hurry. JP Losman at 22 after the top 3 went and they had already drafted Lee Evans. Then they pretend the guy is who they always wanted, and refuse to admit they could have been wrong. Then they pass on Aaron Rodgers the next year who was easily obtainable and who had much better credentials.

 

You can include Trent Edwards in that mix.

 

For 20 years they have attempted to cobble together offensive lines. Instead of investing 2 or 3 drafts assembling those men.

 

20 years of quick fixes. 20 years of mediocrity. Worst team in football.

 

Drafting a bunch of linemen high and drafting quarterbacks until you hit on one takes time. And it hurts the box office because linemen don't sell tickets and are not as important until you have somebody important developing behind that line.

 

That is the core. That is the only approach I will believe in.  And unless one has spectacular luck, it for sure does not happen fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Pegulas are right around .500 as Bills owners and are dedicated to keeping the team here. Give me a break with this talk that they are totally incompetent.

 

They wanted to keep St. Doug but he quit when his attempted hatchet job of Whaley failed. 

 

 

A few weeks ago everything was great now they should sell the team... Grow up

 

 

Do you remember how the end of last season went down?

 

They marched out Whaley to take the heat for them firing THEIR hand-picked head coach Rex(who their GM Whaley did not want to hire)..............and then vehemently professed their faith in Whaley.........said he would be leading the coaching search this time...........then became smitten with the "man of faith" McD and totally turned their back on Whaley all in the blink of an eye.

 

[BillsfanAZ]

Hiring coaches and staff is no different than drafting players. You go by what they have done previously, what their piers say, and how they interview. There is no sure fire way to hire people. Most teams in the NFL cycle through coaches until they find one that has some success. Every change isnt too far off from starting back at square one. At some point the Bills need to give a coach more than 2 yrs to build something. People on here just have to find something to complain about. 

[TheFunPolice]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Do you remember how the end of last season went down?

 

They marched out Whaley to take the heat for them firing THEIR hand-picked head coach Rex(who their GM Whaley did not want to hire)..............and then vehemently professed their faith in Whaley.........said he would be leading the coaching search this time...........then became smitten with the "man of faith" McD and totally turned their back on Whaley all in the blink of an eye.

 

 

I think that (the Whaley PC) was an issue of too many competing voices, each with their own loyalties and turf. The Pegulas needed to do exactly what they did: send Russ totally out of the picture, pick their guys (McD and Beane) and give those guys total control and get out of the way. That's what they have done. A MASSIVE housecleaning occurred there over the past year.

 

This organization has one voice and one message, and it starts with McDermott. That's what everyone has been clamoring for.

 

I was very surprised when they fired Rex after two .500 seasons. That was a bit knee jerk, but I think they wanted to finally pick all their own people and turn the front office over, and that required Rex being gone as well. We are 10 games in to this new organizational structure, and guess what? The team is .500 again. People talk like they are the 0-10 Browns.

[Bad Things]

How soon we forget.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I think that (the Whaley PC) was an issue of too many competing voices, each with their own loyalties and turf. The Pegulas needed to do exactly what they did: send Russ totally out of the picture, pick their guys (McD and Beane) and give those guys total control and get out of the way. That's what they have done. A MASSIVE housecleaning occurred there over the past year.

 

This organization has one voice and one message, and it starts with McDermott. That's what everyone has been clamoring for.

 

I was very surprised when they fired Rex after two .500 seasons. That was a bit knee jerk, but I think they wanted to finally pick all their own people and turn the front office over, and that required Rex being gone as well. We are 10 games in to this new organizational structure, and guess what? The team is .500 again. People talk like they are the 0-10 Browns.

 

 

So if Rex had been the "one voice" things would have turned out great?

 

McDermott's ability to do the job is in question and should be.

 

And yeah, banishing Russ was a good idea,  but then just turning around and hand-picking your own HC again against the wishes of the GM you professed to trust in days earlier......oy vey.  Chaos.

Edited November 21, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[CanadianFan]

6 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Russ Brandon is President of both teams.  How's that going?

 

6 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

The Pegulas are great. They just need to hire the right president/CEO of sports operations. 

 

Pegulas need to find their Tim Leiweke. Toronto sports franchises have made a turn-around thanks to this man. One man can make a huge difference. Prior to his arrival, Raptors, Toronto FC, and Maple Leafs were jokes, and for a very long time at that. Even though he didn't have a direction connections into some of those sports, his business connections allowed him to find and lure the best minds in each sport and turned those franchises around.

 

Quote

LEIWEKE'S LEGACY

 

May, 2013: Masai Ujiri is hired the new general manager of the Toronto Raptors.

September, 2013: Drake joins the Raptors as a global ambassador.

September, 2013: Tim Bezbatchenko joins Toronto FC as general manager, replacing Kevin Payne.

January, 2014: Toronto FC acquires Michael Bradley from A.S. Roma and signs superstar striker Jermain Defoe from Tottenham, laying the groundwork for the "Bloody Big Deal" marketing campaign.

February, 2014: Leiweke outlines a plan for renovations at BMO field.

April, 2014: Brendan Shanahan is appointed president of the Toronto Maple Leafs before facilitating an organizational tear-down conceived by Leiweke.

 

In the few years following changes brought about by Tim, Toronto sports have entered a period of renaissance. Toronto Raptors have gone on to feature in the Eastern Conference Finals, and have been perennial winners. Toronto FC reached the MLS Finals last year and had the best record in the league this past year, and currently competing in the playoffs. Toronto Maple Leafs are currently 2nd in the Eastern Conference. 

 

The turn-arounds in the space of a few years is beyond remarkable. The changes aren't a short-term flash in the pan type either. They are cultural, and organizational in nature. They look to be long-term sustainable. Tim has added and increased the value of all of those franchises many fold over the compensation he received.

 

After departing from Toronto, Tim founded the Oak View Group (OVG), a sports and entertainment advisory firm. He is available as a consultant Pegulas. I'd strongly recommend  hiring him. 

[Fadingpain]

This sort of discussion quickly breaks down into unyielding positions coming from two camps.

 

First, we have the fans who are just happy to have teams in Buffalo, and they are willing to forgive anything, including the team sucking, as long as it is in Buffalo.  They approach the entire debate from an assumed position of weakness, like we are just Buffalo and can't really expect or hope for more than crap anyway. 

 

Second, you have the fans who demand more than that.

 

Put me in the second category.   

 

Run the franchises correctly or sell.  If market forces move the teams, so be it.

 

Who here is crying every day over the loss of the  Buffalo Braves?

 

Time heals all wounds; it might take a generation, but people in WNY will forget all about the Bills soon enough, particularly when all Buffalo Bills fans are dead.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, CanadianFan said:

 

 

Pegulas need to find their Tim Leiweke. Toronto sports franchises have made a turn-around thanks to this man. One man can make a huge difference. Prior to his arrival, Raptors, Toronto FC, and Maple Leafs were jokes, and for a very long time at that. Even though he didn't have a direction connections into some of those sports, his business connections allowed him to find and lure the best minds in each sport and turned those franchises around.

 

 

In the few years following changes brought about by Tim, Toronto sports have entered a period of renaissance. Toronto Raptors have gone on to feature in the Eastern Conference Finals, and have been perennial winners. Toronto FC reached the MLS Finals last year and had the best record in the league this past year, and currently competing in the playoffs. Toronto Maple Leafs are currently 2nd in the Eastern Conference. 

 

The turn-arounds in the space of a few years is beyond remarkable. The changes aren't a short-term flash in the pan type either. They are cultural, and organizational in nature. They look to be long-term sustainable. Tim has added and increased the value of all of those franchises many fold over the compensation he received.

 

After departing from Toronto, Tim founded the Oak View Group (OVG), a sports and entertainment advisory firm. He is available as a consultant Pegulas. I'd strongly recommend  hiring him. 

 

 

Sounds good........pay Leiweke.

[Nick the Greek]

7 hours ago, Dunkirk Don said:

Yes, we should sell the team to Bon Jovi and move the team to Toronto so the fans of Buffalo won't have to complain any more. I really wish people would get it.  We were very close to losing our team.  Do you really think the NFL wants a team in Buffalo??  Who else locally would have kept the team in Buffalo - John Y Brown?  I am so thankful to the Terry and Kim for stepping up to the plate and saving the Bills.  People have such short memories.  I watched the game on Sunday and didn't see Kim or Terry miss an assignment.  They have hired the right coach and GM for the transition.  Just in.... the Bills were not going to the playoffs with Sammy or Dareus.  We need a QB.  Our coach inherited a bunch of complainers and non-performers and he traded them for assets.  The only thing Sammy has done for the Rams this year is stay healthy but we still have 6 weeks to go. He is not a great receiver.   Have patience and good things are around the corner.  

Our standards are so pathetically low. Upstate NY is a joke. 

[TheFunPolice]

20 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Wonder why St. Doug wanted Whaley gone.

 

I'd have rather kept the Saint than Whaley.

 

 

Here's my best guess as to what happened with St. Doug, based on what we know and the rumors of the time.

 

1) Marrone despised the structure of the organization under Whaley and Brandon, especially Brandon, the guy with "zero football decision making involvement" who was talking to prospective undrafted free agents and many other things that have been documented here ad nauseum.

 

2) This was all a large part of why he changed from the somewhat cheerful "local guy" in year 1 to the sullen, miserable prick he became in year 2. He constantly saw the front office making decisions that he disagreed with and felt like there was so much dysfunction that winning here would be a miracle (thus his name). Think about that: the head coach of an NFL team going around openly saying it would take a miracle to win here. His nickname is proof that this part is true, because it came from him. If that doesn't speak to frustrations with the organization I'm not sure what does.

 

3) The training camp blowup happened and finally the team responded by signing a QB. Orton was just a band-aide though.

 

4) In the midst of the Bills going 9-7  Marrone is getting some local and national press, so he decides to play his cards. This is where it gets interesting. He comes up with a plan, along with Polian, for Polian to return here in a Czar type role. This would either result in Whaley directly getting fired or becoming practically powerless and acting as their scout. Russ would not be talking to free agents anymore. Polian would bring the weight and name recognition needed to help St. Doug clean out the lifers in the front office who were so entrenched that survival was their #1 goal. Effectively this would mean that Polian would help St. Doug do whatever he saw necessary to win here.

 

5) For a while it looked likely that Polian was coming in. It was widely reported that he could join the team in a front office role. Then suddenly it didn't happen and everyone went silent. I think (this part is just my guess) that Brandon and/or Whaley got to the Pegulas and convinced them not to do this. This leads to further division between Marrone and the front office.

 

6) The end of the season comes, and Marrone decides to play his last card: trying to leverage the out in his contract in order to get more power. He tries getting total roster control. He tries getting Whaley replaced. He tries getting obscene contract extensions for himself and his assistants, making firing them extremely difficult. It doesn't work, as the Pegulas feel like they are being held up so they side with the Whaley/Brandon faction.

 

7) Having lost the power struggle St. Doug really can't come back. Talk about an awkward situation to come back to, after trying to oust your bosses twice. So he opts out, thinking he would get the Jets job. But he doesn't because he is so negative that it turns them off. That should also make you wonder why a guy would be THAT negative about his former team, having quit on his own terms and not being fired. Well, if he felt like his bosses were a joke and he was toyed with that would explain it.

 

In the end, I think St. Doug was excited at the prospect of a Polian/St. Doug power duo here and really thought it was going to work. Once it all blew up he had no way to return. Interestingly everyone is tight lipped about it all, but it benefits nobody to get into the politics behind the scenes. Nobody ends up looking good, so they all just keep tight lipped and move on.

 

This also explains to me why Rex and McDermott report directly to the owner, rather than the GM. Pegula trying to avoid a similar situation in the future. thinking he could be the arbiter of any disputes.

 

In the end, Marrone ended up with a very similar situation in Jacksonville, where it's Coughlin instead of Polian, but essentially there is the venerated HOF caliber guy with local ties whose word is practically the word of the owner.

 

 

[Albwan]

Its amazing how a fake 5-2 messed so hard with everyone's heads.

[TheFunPolice]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So if Rex had been the "one voice" things would have turned out great?

 

McDermott's ability to do the job is in question and should be.

 

And yeah, banishing Russ was a good idea,  but then just turning around and hand-picking your own HC again against the wishes of the GM you professed to trust in days earlier......oy vey.  Chaos.

 

Rex's big mistake was hiring his idiot brother and not just being the HC/DC himself. He had too many coaches here with conflicting messages.

 

Still, he was a .500 coach here. People act like he went 4-12 or something. 8-8 and likely 8-8 had he not been canned with a game to go in year 2. The team is .500 again. IT was .500 with Marrone.

 

Where is the "sucking" people keep talking about? Sure, 8-8 is not good, but it is also a couple of plays away from 10-6 so get a QB and everyone will become smarter.

[K-9]

47 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I would say that for 20 years they have twice taken whatever the best available quarterback was available to draft in a hurry. JP Losman at 22 after the top 3 went and they had already drafted Lee Evans. Then they pretend the guy is who they always wanted, and refuse to admit they could have been wrong. Then they pass on Aaron Rodgers the next year who was easily obtainable and who had much better credentials.

 

You can include Trent Edwards in that mix.

 

For 20 years they have attempted to cobble together offensive lines. Instead of investing 2 or 3 drafts assembling those men.

 

20 years of quick fixes. 20 years of mediocrity. Worst team in football.

 

Drafting a bunch of linemen high and drafting quarterbacks until you hit on one takes time. And it hurts the box office because linemen don't sell tickets and are not as important until you have somebody important developing behind that line.

 

That is the core. That is the only approach I will believe in.  And unless one has spectacular luck, it for sure does not happen fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't quibble about any other part of your post, but how was Aaron Rodgers "easily obtainable" when we didn't possess a first round pick in the 2005 draft? 

[Fan in San Diego]

Wow ! Talk about knee jerk reactions. Did you hit your lower jaw with this one? Just back away from the keyboard and breathe. It will be just fine. Give the Pegulas and McDermott 4 more years and it will be fine.

[TheFunPolice]

We have some of the richest owners in the entire NFL and the team ahs won as much as it has lost in the short time they have owned it.

 

Now we just need to take that next step from a .500 team into a 10-6/11-5 team.

 

I don't get the topic, honestly.

Edited November 21, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is crazy. I wouldn't trade our owners for anyone. This doesn't happen overnight. Pegula has a much better record than Ralph, if that even means anything.

 

The Sabres will be fine, but it takes time. So many felt tanking to winning would be easy. They had way too many holes to fill, like entire defense.