Schopp: Taylor is better than you think.

[IDBillzFan]

How long do you think other teams' quarterbacks have to throw?

 

Who honestly gives a crap? The line is the line right now. It ain't changing very much.

 

One of the dumbest things I hear NFL talking heads say is "If you give (fill in the name of an NFL quarterback) enough time, he'll pick you apart!"

 

Hey, no schitt, Sherlock. If you're good enough to be an NFL quarterback, you SHOULD pick people apart if you have enough time.

 

What I want to know is how many teams are successful when they get pressure like Taylor has been getting? You can almost set music to Aaron Rodgers when he moves around the pressure, but under the same pressure you see Tom Brady knocked on his ass, yelling because he got a boo-boo.

 

How much time did Carr have yesterday? Did you see how bad some of his throws were?

 

Now go back and watch the TD throw to Holmes and ask a better question: how many other teams's quarterbacks break from that pressure, flip, turn, roll out and throw a freaking bullseye toe-tap TD?

[Wayne Arnold]

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016).

 

This was your standard and props for actually answering my question. Now to rebut:

 

Russel Wilson - in 2015 he threw for 36+ attempts twice and went 0-2. Since 2015 when TT was named starter Russ is 8-5-1. Those were his 4th, 5th, and 6th years in the league. In his first 3 years he went 2-0. That is correct, in 48 games he threw for 36+ attempts twice and one was an ot game. In his first 4 seasons combined he went 2-2. Again I will repeat, TT's first 3 years are looking a lot like Wilson's first 3 years.

 

Kirk Cousins - Since 2015 he has attempted 36+ passes 18 times. His record? 5-12-1. Might need to move him off of your list.

 

Philip Rivers - I don't even want to waste my time with him. Suffice it to say no. The Chargers haven't won more than 9 games since 2009. Never mind I'll do the stats... 3-11 since the start of 2016.

 

Deshaun Watson - promising start but your going to anoint a guy 6 starts in?

 

Alex Smith? It took 6 years for the light to come on and even after it did TT has played as well as him. This is the one year Alex Smith has been ahead of TT. He's 5-4 over the last 2 seasons.

 

Dak Prescott - 4-5 in games throwing more than 36 times including 1-3 this year. Might need to move him down.

 

 

So now your list has 4 guys left. Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. I haven't looked at the numbers but I won't argue that they aren't the elite tier of qbs. Big Ben has a 5 int game this year though and Brees has 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Both of those guys struggle on the road as well.

 

Your "standard" is unachievable save for the top 4 guys which is why I say people need to pay attention to the rest of the league. TT is playing very well. He outplayed Carr yesterday and I just realized even in your negativity and assuming you have TT at the bottom of your flawed list you still have him as your 21st best qb. I don't think anyone can put Eli, Mariota, or Andy Dalton above him and I would argue Cam and Jameis shouldn't be above him either.

 

Thanks for the research, interesting stuff. And I have Tyrod 18th. But that's still in the bottom half of the league and not likely good enough to win the Super Bowl.

[JM2009]

 

Who honestly gives a crap? The line is the line right now. It ain't changing very much.

 

One of the dumbest things I hear NFL talking heads say is "If you give (fill in the name of an NFL quarterback) enough time, he'll pick you apart!"

 

Hey, no schitt, Sherlock. If you're good enough to be an NFL quarterback, you SHOULD pick people apart if you have enough time.

 

What I want to know is how many teams are successful when they get pressure like Taylor has been getting? You can almost set music to Aaron Rodgers when he moves around the pressure, but under the same pressure you see Tom Brady knocked on his ass, yelling because he got a boo-boo.

 

How much time did Carr have yesterday? Did you see how bad some of his throws were?

 

Now go back and watch the TD throw to Holmes and ask a better question: how many other teams's quarterbacks break from that pressure, flip, turn, roll out and throw a freaking bullseye toe-tap TD?

Like the CBS crew said yesterday-TT doesn't get enough respect.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Which QB had the better game yesterday? It's all about what works in the right system.

 

,,,,why the hell would you think the "W" means a damn bit of difference to him anyway?.....what EXACTLY is wrong with an aggressive, opportunistic defense, reassembled in ONE off season after the Train Wrecks dismantling, 166 yds on the ground yesterday (yup, let's get rid of Glenn), and TT puts up 166 yds passing, spreading the wealth to NINE guys, stays in the pocket, improvises as necessary, has improved using the middle of the field. etc?...sorry forgot the result was a "W"......pretty sure that's four in a row at home......ignorance is bliss.....good Lord............

[Wayne Arnold]

Like the CBS crew said yesterday-TT doesn't get enough respect.

 

[IDBillzFan]

Like the CBS crew said yesterday-TT doesn't get enough respect.

 

I don't give a crap how much respect he gets.

 

What bugs me is when some people just need to think they're smarter than everyone else to the extent that they pick nits to make a point.

 

Look, I expect Taylor to make some mistakes. He had a couple of throws I know he'd like back from yesterday. He may well cost us a game in the future.

 

But if you think you can predict whether he can get you to the SB based on numbers, you're embarrassing yourself. The Bears beat the Panthers 17-3, and Trubisky threw the ball SEVEN FREAKING TIMES.

 

That tells me numbers don't mean crap because every single game is different. Every one.

 

I'll never understand why people find the need to be miserable.

[JM2009]

 

,,,,why the hell would you think the "W" means a damn bit of difference to him anyway?.....what EXACTLY is wrong with an aggressive, opportunistic defense, reassembled in ONE off season after the Train Wrecks dismantling, 166 yds on the ground yesterday (yup, let's get rid of Glenn), and TT puts up 166 yds passing, spreading the wealth to NINE guys, stays in the pocket, improvises as necessary, has improved using the middle of the field. etc?...sorry forgot the result was a "W"......pretty sure that's four in a row at home......ignorance is bliss.....good Lord............

You got it right with this post.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

He has the 8th highest sack % of current starters, and his sack % is lower than Rodgers and Bradford on the year. And despite that, he's 16th in sack yards lost per attempt and overall yards lost to sacks.

Was Taylor sacked Sunday?

[JM2009]

 

I don't give a crap how much respect he gets.

 

What bugs me is when some people just need to think they're smarter than everyone else to the extent that they pick nits to make a point.

 

Look, I expect Taylor to make some mistakes. He had a couple of throws I know he'd like back from yesterday. He may well cost us a game in the future.

 

But if you think you can predict whether he can get you to the SB based on numbers, you're embarrassing yourself. The Bears beat the Panthers 17-3, and Trubisky threw the ball SEVEN FREAKING TIMES.

 

That tells me numbers don't mean crap because every single game is different. Every one.

 

I'll never understand why people find the need to be miserable.

With a defense that gets numerous turnovers, and a QB that doesn't turn the ball over, along with the rest of the offense, playoffs look more and more likely. TT is the right QB for this team right now.

[aristocrat]

Tyrod has better number than dak

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[transplantbillsfan]

BTW I've never claimed Taylor to be "gawd-awful". I just want the Bills to win the Super Bowl, so my expectations are perhaps higher than most folks.

 

You claimed he was "gawd-awful" enough to make a bet that he'd be replaced by Nate friggin Peterman by the end of the year.

 

But keep backtracking

[grb]

 

Carr leads the NFL in getting the ball out in the least amount of time. He takes the snap, finds his man and immediately makes a decisive throw.

 

Taylor, on the other hand, requires significantly more time to throw because of his limitations.

 

Yep. Carr is far, far, far ahead of Taylor, due to TT's "limitations"

 

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth :

 

Completion Percentage : Taylor - 63.8 Carr - 64.6

Yards per Attempt Taylor - 6.9 Carr - 6.9

Interception Percentage Taylor - 1.0 Carr - 2.5

Touchdown Percentage Taylor - 4.1 Carr - 5.0

Plus 20yd Pass Play % Taylor - 10.7 Carr - 8.3

 

Maybe a slight edge to Carr, though it's pretty close. And I'll grant Carr has more overall yards than Taylor : 158 total yards more this season, passing and rushing combined. Of course Carr has Crabtree, Cooper, Cook, and Cordarrelle - but I guess we're not supposed to mention that when talking about Taylor's "limitations". It's probably not the polite thing to do.

 

Supposed we switched places and Taylor (with his "limitations") was throwing to Crabtree and Cooper - Carr was throwing to Holmes and Tate. I bet that would wipe away Carr's edge over Taylor (such that it is) in the blink of an eye. I'd bet the edge would swing clearly the other way. What do you think?

 

(Oops : This is highly embarrassing, but I gave Carr credit for having 158 more total yards than Taylor before checking whether Oakland has had their bye. They haven't.

Carr is averaging less yards per game than Taylor)

Edited October 30, 2017 by grb

[JM2009]

Was Taylor sacked Sunday?

No.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

You got it right with this post.

 

...FINALLY got at least ONE right.............now I can die in peace..................

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

This is false. Watch the All-22.

 

Tyrod pumpers can't make a case for him without disparaging his teammates. It's unfortunate.

 

tyrod pumpers?

 

what is somebody called that doesn't support the teams QB?

 

tyrod thumpers?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Havent we discussed stats enough to see they dont frieking matter?

 

400 loses games and 165 loses games.

 

tyrod pumpers?

 

what is somebody called that doesn't support the teams QB?

 

tyrod thumpers?

Actually Savior Peterman.

[DefenseWins]

The truth is that this team is winning games it would normally lose because the defense is playing out of their minds great football and the injuries that are seemingly inevitable at some point haven't hit yet...

And I am as happy as anybody for what some have called winning boring football games - for a change!

Right now Micah Hyde is having a Pro Bowl - Defensive MVP - All Pro(?) season and the rest of the secondary have jelled unusually quickly. More quickly than most would have banked on, before the season began.

I always liked Leslie Frazier as a Defensive Coordinator and kudos to Gil Byrd the Defensive Secondary Coach...

Since this part of my original post hasn't seemingly been mentioned i thought I'd mention it a second time... Would we be winning these games with much less than the stellar performance of the defense we've seen thus far?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Havent we discussed stats enough to see they dont frieking matter?

 

400 loses games and 165 loses games.

 

Actually Savior Peterman.

 

...they sure as hell do....how can you discount the prolific Dilfer's stat line in the Ravens' 2000 SB "W"?.....you seriously think 12/25 for 153 yds (OMG , less than TT) was NOT the key to their Lombardi?.....blasphemy....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

...they sure as hell do....how can you discount the prolific Dilfer's stat line in the Ravens' 2000 SB "W"?.....you seriously think 12/25 for 153 yds (OMG , less than TT) was NOT the key to their Lombardi?.....blasphemy....

ROTFLMAOPIP.

Do you know how hard it is to intentionally pee in your pants?

 

 

Walking Dead reference

[xRUSHx]

We need wins on the Road. Lets start racking them up and people will have less and less negative to say about Tyrod.

Right on man,

Last two games has me more positive on him but road games is what really worries me about Tyrod, many backups can do the 165 when at home with extra good field position to get a win so I'm not super excited about his play. One game at a time, keep winning and my negative goes away more more and more. He sure isn't no Montana out there but is playing well enough to squeeze the wins, thank goodness for STs and the D without there top play 165 would have us in ugly losses. Go Bills

Edited October 30, 2017 by xRUSHx

[Foxx]

 

Yep. Carr is far, far, far ahead of Taylor, due to TT's "limitations"

 

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth :

 

Completion Percentage : Taylor - 63.8 Carr - 64.6

Yards per Attempt Taylor - 6.9 Carr - 6.9

Interception Percentage Taylor - 1.0 Carr - 2.5

Touchdown Percentage Taylor - 4.1 Carr - 5.0

Plus 20yd Pass Play % Taylor - 10.7 Carr - 8.3

 

Maybe a slight edge to Carr, though it's pretty close. And I'll grant Carr has more overall yards than Taylor : 158 total yards more this season, passing and rushing combined. Of course Carr has Crabtree, Cooper, Cook, and Cordarrelle - but I guess we're not supposed to mention that when talking about Taylor's "limitations". It's probably not the polite thing to do.

 

Supposed we switched places and Taylor (with his "limitations") was throwing to Crabtree and Cooper - Carr was throwing to Holmes and Tate. I bet that would wipe away Carr's edge over Taylor (such that it is) in the blink of an eye. I'd bet the edge would swing clearly the other way. What do you think?

 

(Oops : This is highly embarrassing, but I gave Carr credit for having 158 more total yards than Taylor before checking whether Oakland has had their bye. They haven't.

Carr is averaging less yards per game than Taylor)

thanks for the perspective.

[Kirby Jackson]

so, you think it no coincidence and that positions 29 through 36, at this link tells you absolutely nothing? i beg to differ. what is the common denominator with all but Taylor and Wilson in that grouping? i'll tell you, they are first or second year players. outside of Wilson, that tells me that those players are improvising because they are not yet adept at reading defenses and have other areas as well where they are deficient which causes them to hold the ball longer.

It tells you that they improvise. Scheme and skill set are as important to that stat as OL play. It tells you absolutely nothing. With the exception of Mariota, every mobile QB is 19th or lower. The most mobile guys at the bottom. Edited October 30, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Actually Savior Peterman.

 

awww hell

Edited October 30, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[Foxx]

It tells you that they improvise. Scheme and skill set are as important to that stat as OL play. It tells you absolutely nothing. With the exception of Mariota, every mobile QB is 19th or lower. The most mobile guys at the bottom.

if you say so.

[Kirby Jackson]

if you say so.

Do you disagree? Wentz, Cam, Smith, Tyrod, Wilson, Watson

[GunnerBill]

I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes.

 

But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

awww hell

There is that Kutulu dude and Yeezuz character too

 

Any of the 3 works

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

There is that Kutulu dude and Yeezuz character too

 

Any of the 3 works

 

 

the monkey and hey soos

[Wayne Arnold]

I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes.

 

But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context.

 

Indeed. That would be nice to have. Should be "time before first pressure" in addition to "time to throw" numbers.

[klos63]

 

It's a negative because his high sack number is a result of his slow progression speed and indecisiveness..

that might be why I said, ' as long as he has time to throw'

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes.

 

But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context.

If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw.

[BringBackOrton]

If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw.

I guess his point is that we don't know if Wilsons time to throw is shorter than TT's because he scrambles less, has a better OL, or is a better QB.

 

It's a flawed stat. Just like all the rest. If there wasn't a flawed stat, there'd be no disagreement in QB rankings.

 

Flawed stats aren't useless stats. They are just flawed. To my eyes TT has issues being decisive in the pocket with his throws, moreso than other QB's. The stat corroborates that.

Edited October 31, 2017 by jmc12290

[Scott7975]

 

The truth is that this team is winning games it would normally lose because the defense is playing out of their minds great football and the injuries that are seemingly inevitable at some point haven't hit yet...

And I am as happy as anybody for what some have called winning boring football games - for a change!

Right now Micah Hyde is having a Pro Bowl - Defensive MVP - All Pro(?) season and the rest of the secondary have jelled unusually quickly. More quickly than most would have banked on, before the season began.

I always liked Leslie Frazier as a Defensive Coordinator and kudos to Gil Byrd the Defensive Secondary Coach...

Since this part of my original post hasn't seemingly been mentioned i thought I'd mention it a second time... Would we be winning these games with much less than the stellar performance of the defense we've seen thus far?

 

Injuries haven't hit yet? Humbar, Gaines, Poyer, Clay, Mathews(but he plays), Glenn was out a while. We've had our share.

 

Indeed. That would be nice to have. Should be "time before first pressure" in addition to "time to throw" numbers.

This I agree on.

[transplantbillsfan]

I guess his point is that we don't know if Wilsons time to throw is shorter than TT's because he scrambles less, has a better OL, or is a better QB.

 

It's a flawed stat. Just like all the rest. If there wasn't a flawed stat, there'd be no disagreement in QB rankings.

 

Flawed stats aren't useless stats. They are just flawed. To my eyes TT has issues being decisive in the pocket with his throws, moreso than other QB's. The stat corroborates that.

But the real question is would you still take Siemian over Tyrod?

[Scott7975]

But the real question is would you still take Siemian over Tyrod?

floors, ceilings, Joe Montana, stuff.

[Dr.Sack]

If you win everyone loves you. I said this before the season began, under Rex Ryan Tyrod was a .500 QB. If McDermott is a good coach & continues to coach the team why cant TT be a winning QB? Rex Ryan was holding TT back IMO. TT is only scratching the surface of his abilities.

[Kirby Jackson]

If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw.

Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense.

[Scott7975]

Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense.

I was doing some quick look through passing charts. They don't have this weeks out yet. In the previous weeks Carr had 191 passes. 91 of those passes were within 5 yards of the LOS. That's almost half his passes. That does not include ones the eeked on the 5 or 6 yardline. I wonder if that has anything to do with his ToT stat?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Tyrod Taylor is the best there is. No one is better. Yards don't matter.

 

 

 

(do you like my Halloween costume?)

[GunnerBill]

Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense.

 

It's flawed. Not useless.