FREEKING Watkins trade

[OldTimer1960]

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

[Heitz]

He is way way way way better then what we have. Heck if Matthews was their #2 receiver then the Bills are better on Offense.

 

To have one of the offenses in the NFL year after year after year and be excited for 250 yards in the air is pathetic.

 

Watkins easily could have been extended but this management team doesn't like the idea of a star WR......

 

Not sure I would say EASILY - he could have potentially been extended, for a lot of money, with uncertainty on his long-term ability to stay healthy.

 

And I guarantee management would take a star WR that fits their mold in a heartbeat.

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

 

And that's with a QB that throws downfield. O_O

[Alphadawg7]

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

 

And the leading receiver on Sammys new team caught 3 passes. And Sammy leads the team in receptions on the season. So whats your point? This utterly ridiculous "he caught 2 passes yesterday" argument has literally ZERO relevancy as its not the same team, QB, situation, game, offense, etc. Oh, and Sammy is still new there and mastering the offensive system still.

 

I just don't even know why people say worthless non-relevant things like this around here so often. In Sammys only game as a Bill this year, he caught the first 4 passes of the game...so theres that too.

[CommonCents]

 

And the leading receiver on Sammys new team caught 3 passes. And Sammy leads the team in receptions on the season. So whats your point? This utterly ridiculous "he caught 2 passes yesterday" argument has literally ZERO relevancy as its not the same team, QB, situation, game, offense, etc. Oh, and Sammy is still new there and mastering the offensive system still.

 

I just don't even know why people say worthless non-relevant things like this around here so often. In Sammys only game as a Bill this year, he caught the first 4 passes of the game...so theres that too.

Gurley 8 catches

Watkins and Cupp both have 7.

[QCity]

 

Don't forget about Darby. With Watkins and Darby in the lineup, the Bills are easily 3-0 by now.

 

You forgot about Jonathan Williams. At least 4-0 right now. At least.

[Alphadawg7]

Gurley 8 catches

Watkins and Cupp both have 7.

 

Gurley isn't a receiver, but I also didn't realize he went ahead on receptions this week.

 

Again...still has no relevancy what so ever to what Sammy would be doing here on any level.

[CommonCents]

 

Gurley isn't a receiver, but I also didn't realize he went ahead on receptions this week.

 

Again...still has no relevancy what so ever to what Sammy would be doing here on any level.

Just put it out there for accruacy's sake. A few more games like that in LA from Watkins and he would be lucky to land a contract similar to Allen Hurns's deal.

 

I asked a question in another thread, which I wish I had the answer for. Has TT had a better than average game when playing against a top tier run defense? If/when teams eliminate TT and Shady's running threat the offensive stalls out. I don't care who is running go routes, the QB is the problem.

[Billsfan1972]

I stupidly figured the Bills staff was not incompetent, saw the films the last 2 years that Watkins was often open, didn't get nearly enough touches and that he & TT were building building chemistry and that having an Offense near the bottom of the NFL is not a winning strategy.......

 

Again stoopid me........

[Wayne Arnold]

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

 

And the leading receiver on Sammys new team caught 3 passes. And Sammy leads the team in receptions on the season. So whats your point? This utterly ridiculous "he caught 2 passes yesterday" argument has literally ZERO relevancy as its not the same team, QB, situation, game, offense, etc. Oh, and Sammy is still new there and mastering the offensive system still.

 

I just don't even know why people say worthless non-relevant things like this around here so often. In Sammys only game as a Bill this year, he caught the first 4 passes of the game...so theres that too.

Both of our starters are new here (Mathews played zero preseason snaps and Jones is a rookie). Additionally, Taylor barely played in a the preseason. But don't let that interfere with the narrative that Watkins would have won this game for the Bills

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Both of our starters are new here (Mathews played zero preseason snaps and Jones is a rookie). Additionally, Taylor barely played in a the preseason. But don't let that interfere with the narrative that Watkins would have won this game for the Bills

I think that Cooper Kupp would have won the game for us.

[Figster]

Why do the Bills hate people with talent? If not for that idiotic trade we're 2-0. Does anyone not think he hauls that last pass in EASILY??? We probably also still have Boldin, and at least a CHANCE to score some points today. My ass is chapped about this one...

 

 

 

 

almost invisible on the last Rams game

[Alphadawg7]

Both of our starters are new here (Mathews played zero preseason snaps and Jones is a rookie). Additionally, Taylor barely played in a the preseason. But don't let that interfere with the narrative that Watkins would have won this game for the Bills

 

hahahaha...do you even know what you just said? Watkins would NOT have been new here...would NOT have been new to Tyrod. Wow, its like you don't even know what you write sometimes man. You literally just made a case for WHY having SAMMY might have gave us a better outcome on Sunday.

 

And considering in the first preseason game, TT starter 4-4 and all were to Sammy. Then we traded Sammy after the game. So in the ONE instance IN this offense WITH this QB during THIS season...4 catches on the first drive.

 

But keep coming up with no logical rebuttals to refute that Sammy would unquestionably be the best WR on this team right now if he was here even with the guys we have.

[Augie]

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

I wonder if there is some kind of statute of limitations?

[C.Biscuit97]

Post like this shows how clueless some people are about football.

 

If you honestly believe DCs prepare for Matthews and Sammy the same, you're stupid. With Watkins, you have to keep defenders back. He draws double teams and top cbs. Matthews is a number 2 wr on his best day.

 

If we kept Sammy and added Matthews, this would be one of the best wr groups in the NFL. Now, it's one of the worst and our run game will suffer because of it.

 

Prepare some Jauron type offense. Good times.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Post like this shows how clueless some people are about football.

 

If you honestly believe DCs prepare for Matthews and Sammy the same, you're stupid. With Watkins, you have to keep defenders back. He draws double teams and top cbs. Matthews is a number 2 wr on his best day.

 

If we kept Sammy and added Matthews, this would be one of the best wr groups in the NFL. Now, it's one of the worst and our run game will suffer because of it.

 

Prepare some Jauron type offense. Good times.

Every team has to have someone draw the top DB, so I've never understood that point. I agree that Matthews is a two at best, and I do understand the double team issue. However, did the Redskins double team Sammy? I doubt they had to with Josh Norman on him.

[BADOLBILZ]

Just put it out there for accruacy's sake. A few more games like that in LA from Watkins and he would be lucky to land a contract similar to Allen Hurns's deal.

 

I asked a question in another thread, which I wish I had the answer for. Has TT had a better than average game when playing against a top tier run defense? If/when teams eliminate TT and Shady's running threat the offensive stalls out. I don't care who is running go routes, the QB is the problem.

 

 

Yeah, compared to Aaron Rodgers........Taylor is the problem.

 

Taylor was efficient but when your gameplan is to play behind the sticks all day you gotta' be efficient as a team.

 

Two nice throws to Holmes called back by penalty.......an entire drive killed by giving the ball multiple times to Tolbert........a third down drop by Jones........a game winning TD drop by Jones.

 

This team has a numbers problem........#2 and #3 WR's playing the roles of #1 and #2 WR's.......two matchup losses.........and a #4 RB playing the role of #2 RB.......another matchup loss.

 

It's a matchup league......and it's A LOT easier to find playmakers at WR and RB than it is to find them at QB.........and the Bills had them and let them walk.

 

And yes, Taylor isn't Aaron Rodgers.......he's not going to spin the play of an average WR into gold the way Rodgers did with James Jones and others.......but lesser performing QB's have won in the NFL recently.

Edited September 18, 2017 by #BADOL

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Why do the Bills hate people with talent? If not for that idiotic trade we're 2-0. Does anyone not think he hauls that last pass in EASILY??? We probably also still have Boldin, and at least a CHANCE to score some points today. My ass is chapped about this one...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....good Lord and it is ONLY Monday........fasten your seat belts..........BTW, Neosporin works well for azz chaps ......great for diaper rash as well......

[cba fan]

 

Is there a WR you would "guarantee" would have caught that throw?

 

Yes.

Stevie Johnson.

[C.Biscuit97]

Every team has to have someone draw the top DB, so I've never understood that point. I agree that Matthews is a two at best, and I do understand the double team issue. However, did the Redskins double team Sammy? I doubt they had to with Josh Norman on him.

You can press the line and bring Ss up to the line when you don't fear getting beat deep. There are more guys in the box, thus making it harder to run the ball.

 

Sammy struggles with injuries but he still is a big threat that draws attention. He was one of the best deep ball threats in the NFL. You are less likely to bring up coverage if he's on the field.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

You can press the line and bring Ss up to the line when you don't fear getting beat deep. There are more guys in the box, thus making it harder to run the ball.

 

Sammy struggles with injuries but he still is a big threat that draws attention. He was one of the best deep ball threats in the NFL. You are less likely to bring up coverage if he's on the field.

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

[BringBackOrton]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

We should've thrown a deep ball, just once, in the first half. No excuse.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

We should've thrown a deep ball, just once, in the first half. No excuse.

Exactly. We might not have a marquee deep threat, but it's something that you have to attempt. Coming out of college Jones wasn't viewed as an elite deep threat. That fact doesn't mean he isn't capable of being targeted on deep throws. Most scouting reports on Jones indicated that he had the ability to do so. Edited September 18, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[cba fan]

Do we have to rehash that trade forever? Sammy caught 2 for 30 yards yesterday- don't think that would have won this game.

WAIT A MINUTE.

 

Watkins had a 2 yd catch and a 28 yd catch. If he had the 28 yarder on Bills in place of the Zay nay Jones last play fiasco. Bills are in business and likely win.

Edited September 18, 2017 by cba fan

[Alphadawg7]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

[Figster]

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

[Chilly]

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

Did he have open receivers to throw to?

[Alphadawg7]

Myself Personally, the Bills starting QB just didn't get the job done in my humble opinion.

 

Not saying TT can't be better or didn't have a rough day...was just commenting on going deep isn't just a matter of chucking up a football like so many around here seem to think.

[Hurricane]

Best Quote of that movie "Coach I look like I just jacked off an elephant" lol

 

hahaha... great movie..

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

There is a lot more that goes into throwing deep than just heaving a ball down field. People think its all on the QB yet its actually a LOT of things that are involved in throwing deep down field.

 

1. The receivers need to run consistently good routes: A deep pass is 100% percent based on timing. If the WR lets up even a split second from a sloppy cut, stumble, slow to look for the ball, etc it throws the timing off to either result in incomplete or an INT.

 

2. Trust: See above. The QB needs to trust where the WR is going to be. He needs to be supremely confident that ball and receiver are going to meet at a point where he is throwing it. If a QB doesn't trust the receiver (either from an inconsistency, lack of experience together, etc) its hard for them to pull the trigger and fire.

 

3. Pass Protection: You need more time for the routes to develop on a deep pass to read the defense and the field to see where to go down field with the ball. If the OL isn't giving the QB time, it interrupts their downfield clock and they start looking to check down, running lanes, or get out of the pocket and reassess.

 

4. The defense: A lot of novice fans at home think they see an open WR because they don't understand zone coverage. Often guys look open downfield when they are not nearly as open as the fan thinks because there are defenders near the zone able to close on the play. The worst QB in the NFL understands that a thousand times better than any fan on this board.

 

5. Play design: Not all plays are equal. There are guys out there on every play mostly there to just draw defenders towards them to create one on one matchups in man or creates soft spots in zone defenses. Never underestimate the importance of play design, the OC, and the play calling. For all we know, there was only one route going deep on a given play and that wasn't opening up. Fans tend to think that 1 or more receivers are going deep on every play which just isn't the case.

 

Personally as far as Sunday goes, I felt like the play calling was the absolute biggest culprit to the stagnant offense. Lots of head scratching play calls, very predictable play calling etc...until late when he finally stopped calling the game like Juaron would. Even in the Jets game, once we had a 2 score lead the offense went ultra conservative. I think maybe the strong showing by the D kept them conservative and risk adverse until it was late and had no choice but to open it up.

Great response. You made great points. I'd just like to see the offense draw up one deep throw down the field. It's understandable that TT didn't have the opportunity to get to the deep option on any plays. However, I'd like to see more of an effort placed to do so. Even if it's just a token play. The offense coordinator and QB need to work together to make it happen at least once a game.

 

Not saying TT can't be better or didn't have a rough day...was just commenting on going deep isn't just a matter of chucking up a football like so many around here seem to think.

Sometimes it does need to be just a matter of "chucking it up" to keep the defense honest imo. These are the types of plays that quality QB's know how to safely make at least once a game. Edited September 18, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Boatdrinks]

I agree. Good post, but why didn't we try to throw deep at least once if that were the case? I'm not denying the talent of Sammy. Zay Jones and Sammy are no comparison athlete wise, but Sammy ran a 4.43 40 while Jones ran a 4.45 40. Why not at least run a token deep route to loosen the safeties up? We might lack a legit deep threat, but it's not like my grandma is playing receiver. Jones is no Sammy, but it's not as if he's incapable of running.

Straight line 40 speed is somewhat overrated. Being " slippery" off the line and quick in and out of breaks is more critical. SW gets open consistently. Regardless, he's gone. When and if the Rams start to integrate him to their attack and feature him, then we will see what he is capable of.

[Wayne Arnold]

Post like this shows how clueless some people are about football.

 

If you honestly believe DCs prepare for Matthews and Sammy the same, you're stupid. With Watkins, you have to keep defenders back. He draws double teams and top cbs. Matthews is a number 2 wr on his best day.

 

If we kept Sammy and added Matthews, this would be one of the best wr groups in the NFL. Now, it's one of the worst and our run game will suffer because of it.

 

Prepare some Jauron type offense. Good times.

 

[danc]

Gaines has been a terrific CB so far, do you really want to get rid of him?

Darby broke his ankle/foot in week 1. He'll be in a boot for 4-6 weeks and then have some rehab. Gaines looks real good to me.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The Sammy Watkins drafting was the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals...maybe ever!

Trading two first round picks for a wr when you have nothing that resembles a QB on your roster, it's like buying condoms and declaring yourself celibate, there's just no point

I see. So then continuing this example, it was logical from them to trade those condoms for the ability to select other condoms later, when celibacy is abandoned.

Straight line 40 speed is somewhat overrated. Being " slippery" off the line and quick in and out of breaks is more critical. SW gets open consistently. Regardless, he's gone. When and if the Rams start to integrate him to their attack and feature him, then we will see what he is capable of.

Sammys been a just wait and see for his entire rookie deal.

[Doc]

I see. So then continuing this example, it was logical from them to trade those condoms for the ability to select other condoms later, when celibacy is abandoned.

 

Doesn't help if said traded condoms are always breaking...