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Wayne Arnold

By Wayne Arnold
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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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You've made it well known...repeatedly, that he's a bum that was drafted for his pass rushing prowess and hasn't done jack in his career to this point( 3 starts,lol) and its been pointed out...repeatedly, that he was drafted as a run stuffing DE who hussles and gets clean up sacks. That sounds EXACTLY what his coaches think of him. Solid run defender/edge setter, 6-8 sacks a year,until he picks up the finer nuances of the game and can increase his sack totals=worthy of the #19 overall draft pick.

 

 

Wrong.

 

I said he and Ragnuts were "uninspired" picks......not bums.......because it's a passing league and your early picks.......and the big free agent dollars........go to players that greatly impact the passing game.

 

It's interesting that you think Shaq is just a "clean up sack" guy and yet you think he's going to get 8 sacks that way? Do you follow the NFL?.......cheapies like yesterdays vulture sack are few and far between.......literally.

 

His pass rush game is going to have to come along.

 

He's even getting some one on one opportunities in pass rush against guards.......he's gotta' do more with them........hence Frazier's take that his pass rush game is just "coming along".

 

Said it since they drafted him.......I'd love to be wrong about it but he lacks some basics as a pass rusher and he's going to have to find a way to get better........being a good run defender is not enough in this scheme.

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Wayne Arnold Veteran

Wayne Arnold

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Agreed on highlighted but did he even have a QB pressure yesterday?

 

I can't remember one..........and that's saying something because Newton was under a non-stop assault.

 

On the sack Shaq got.......he was the ONLY GUY THAT WAS BLOCKED......it was a vulture sack. :lol:

 

 

Let's be clear folks.......I never said Shaq sucked but he's yet to be anything noteworthy as a pass rusher.

 

He had around three pressures plus a sack. So obviously you either (a) didn't watch the game, or (b) have no idea what you're watching

I think there's a clear difference between getting a clean up sack because a QB is trying to avoid the other pass-rushers getting pressure versus getting the pressure yourself. Don't you?

 

You realize that most registered sacks are a result of a QB trying to avoid another pass-rusher, right?

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BuffAlone Veteran

BuffAlone

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Wrong.

 

I said he and Ragnuts were "uninspired" picks......not bums.......because it's a passing league and your early picks.......and the big free agent dollars........go to players that greatly impact the passing game.

 

It's interesting that you think Shaq is just a "clean up sack" guy and yet you think he's going to get 8 sacks that way? Do you follow the NFL?.......cheapies like yesterdays vulture sack are few and far between.......literally.

 

His pass rush game is going to have to come along.

 

He's even getting some one on one opportunities in pass rush against guards.......he's gotta' do more with them........hence Frazier's take that his pass rush game is just "coming along".

 

Said it since they drafted him.......I'd love to be wrong about it but he lacks some basics as a pass rusher and he's going to have to find a way to get better........being a good run defender is not enough in this scheme.

Never once did i say he is "jyst a clean up sack guy". I have said that due to his setting of the edge, he winds up with clean up sacks. Meaning, of course, blitzers have moved the pocket, forced a qb to scramble, and bang,there's good ole Shaq! Im all for him improving his pass rush, but for what he is now, and while at school, the kid was worth his draft pick! He is solid, if not spectacular. And those guys all around the league get those sacks and/or TFL...which he also had yesterday.

He's not a bum, but I agree he's no Bruce. Hughes had ten, but did he set the edge like Shaq? So, who's the better DE? A 10 sack guy who dont stop the run like Shaq, or a 6-8 sack guy who is a beast against the run?

Either of those work for me, and definately related to their draft slot👍

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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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He had around three pressures plus a sack. So obviously you either (a) didn't watch the game, or (b) have no idea what you're watching

 

You realize that most registered sacks are a result of a QB trying to avoid another pass-rusher, right?

 

 

I suspect you made up that pressure stat.......I'm all for knowing how many he had......but "around three" sounds a bit indecisive. :lol:

 

And no........we don't realize that most sacks are the second hand variety......because that is totally fabricated. :lol:

 

You are fast becoming one of our village idiots with these peculiar takes.

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

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I suspect you made up that pressure stat.......I'm all for knowing how many he had......but "around three" sounds a bit indecisive. :lol:

 

And no........we don't realize that most sacks are the second hand variety......because that is totally fabricated. :lol:

 

You are fast becoming one of our village idiots with these peculiar takes.

I haven't seen such a meteoric rise and fall since.....Shaq Lawson? :w00t:

 

The more pressure you have, the more sacks you're going to have. It goes hand in hand. It's not as if Rex told the players "when you get close to the quarterback, stop before you sack him". Come on, now.

 

If only the NFL were a five-game season.

No Wayne! The more pressures a player has, the more sacks his teammate is going to have!

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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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Like i thougbt he worked his way into a sack. I expect for the next couple of weeks that is what to expect. The defense played great. So far so good on that side of the ball.

 

 

The D played well in the redzone and had a good stretch of decent play in the second half but Carolina offense DOMINATED the pace of play TOP with killer long drives.

 

Bills really had no business being one poor pass route from a victory.........but they got some bounces and Jauron ball almost paid off.

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Wayne Arnold Veteran

Wayne Arnold

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I suspect you made up that pressure stat.......I'm all for knowing how many he had......but "around three" sounds a bit indecisive. :lol:

 

And no........we don't realize that most sacks are the second hand variety......because that is totally fabricated. :lol:

 

You are fast becoming one of our village idiots with these peculiar takes.

 

Do you not watch the games? I'm serious right now. You sound like a guy who either doesn't bother to watch or doesn't know what's going on.

 

According to PFF Shaq had two pressures plus his sack. So a third could probably be debateable. Maybe they're making it up, though :lol:

 

"Most" is probably an exaggeration but it's a team sport. Do you really think all sacks are a result of a 1 on 1 victory for the defender over the blocker? Do you not recognize overage sacks or sacks in which the quarterback avoids one tackler and the other tackler benefits? Is that a difficult concept for you?

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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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PFF had him at 2 and a sack I read.

 

It was by far his best game as a pro and there were pass rushers buzzing around Newton like flies on sh*t but I honestly can't remember a play where Newton was in imminent danger of being hit by Lawson.

 

On the sack, he never even got off the LOS and just touched Newton as he curled up.

 

Did they give him a pressure on the play where Newton scrambled right and Shaq was still at the LOS and despite the angle Cam ran past him like a traffic cone for a big run? I didn't expect him to make that play but giving him a pressure for it would seem a might generous. :lol:

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Wayne Arnold Veteran

Wayne Arnold

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It was by far his best game as a pro and there were pass rushers buzzing around Newton like flies on sh*t but I honestly can't remember a play where Newton was in imminent danger of being hit by Lawson.

 

On the sack, he never even got off the LOS and just touched Newton as he curled up.

 

Did they give him a pressure on the play where Newton scrambled right and Shaq was still at the LOS and despite the angle Cam ran past him like a traffic cone for a big run? I didn't expect him to make that play but giving him a pressure for it would seem a might generous. :lol:

 

#BADOL logic

 

"I can't remember" = never happened :lol:

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BringBackOrton All Pro

BringBackOrton

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Ask mommy to help you if you can't read or grasp the overall context.

I read it. I didn't see it. Can you show me please?

 

The chart posted actually shows most of the quality pass rushers actually had mostly high quality sacks and very few cleanups.

 

In fact, in the chart that ranks the most "low quality" and "clean up" sack leaders, only 3 of the most had more clean up sacks than any other category.

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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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I don't have the breakdown. They credited Jerry with 2 sacks and 4 hurries.

 

 

Yeah.......nobody has the breakdown.......because it's not at all obvious which plays he got a pressure on.

 

I mean, it's two plays.......which where they? :rolleyes:

 

Like Frazier implied......he's got clear work to do wrt being a reliable pass rusher.......the Panthers OL was in disarray with the pro bowl center and blocking assignment caller a surprising gameday scratch........and Shaq really didn't get into the party other than his vulture sack.

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BuffAlone Veteran

BuffAlone

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Yeah.......nobody has the breakdown.......because it's not at all obvious which plays he got a pressure on.

 

I mean, it's two plays.......which where they? :rolleyes:

 

Like Frazier implied......he's got clear work to do wrt being a reliable pass rusher.......the Panthers OL was in disarray with the pro bowl center and blocking assignment caller a surprising gameday scratch........and Shaq really didn't get into the party other than his vulture sack.

Umm...if nobody has the breakdown, how exactly was he credited with them? Do they just magically credit different players with random stats? This line of thought deserves to be on "C'mon Man"!
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BADOLBILZ Hall of Famer

BADOLBILZ

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That's about right.

 

 

For chrissake, let it go Gregg. :doh:

Umm...if nobody has the breakdown, how exactly was he credited with them? Do they just magically credit different players with random stats? This line of thought deserves to be on "C'mon Man"!

 

Let me quote you here:

 

"You've made it well known...repeatedly, that he's a bum..."

 

At that point you ceased to have any objectivity in this discussion..........as I've never said anything like that.

 

There is a WHOLE LOTTA' area between being a bum and not being a star pass rusher.

 

Gunner and I have had lengthy discussion on Shaq's play and he is one of Shaq's biggest proponents.........what I am saying is that after watching the game a couple times I don't see the plays where he "pressured" Cam Newton........and apparently he didn't see them either.

 

It's not like he had 6-8 pressures........it's just two........which plays were they?

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BuffAlone Veteran

BuffAlone

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For chrissake, let it go Gregg. :doh:

 

 

Let me quote you here:

 

"You've made it well known...repeatedly, that he's a bum..."

 

At that point you ceased to have any objectivity in this discussion..........as I've never said anything like that.

 

There is a WHOLE LOTTA' area between being a bum and not being a star pass rusher.

 

Gunner and I have had lengthy discussion on Shaq's play and he is one of Shaq's biggest proponents.........what I am saying is that after watching the game a couple times I don't see the plays where he "pressured" Cam Newton........and apparently he didn't see them either.

 

It's not like he had 6-8 pressures........it's just two........which plays were they?

Sorry to paraphrase. But, you Have said that he is not worth that high of a pick. Is that correct?
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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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Meanwhile, Chris Jones looks like the player the Bills should've drafted at 19 (or traded up for instead of Ragland - imagine having both Shaq and Jones).

This happens every draft.....

 

If Rex WAS still here Ragland would be a huge part of our D. At the time it really was not a bad pick.

 

The problem is Rex was on very very thin ice.

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HappyDays Hall of Famer

HappyDays

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Meanwhile, Chris Jones looks like the player the Bills should've drafted at 19 (or traded up for instead of Ragland - imagine having both Shaq and Jones).

I remember one poster saying he should have been our pick that year. The same poster said we should have taken TJ Watt this year. Maybe this whole drafting thing isn't as hard as the experts make it out to be.

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CommonCents All Pro

CommonCents

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I remember one poster saying he should have been our pick that year. The same poster said we should have taken TJ Watt this year. Maybe this whole drafting thing isn't as hard as the experts make it out to be.

It's definitely difficult. Which makes it even more mind blowing that some GM's continue to ignore the rare set of numbers that leads to highly productive careers for the overwhelming majority of players that post them.

 

I believe the poster you are talking about is Jrober. He has good contributions.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Meanwhile, Chris Jones looks like the player the Bills should've drafted at 19 (or traded up for instead of Ragland - imagine having both Shaq and Jones).

If only I could remember which intelligent, good-looking poster on this board called Jones the 2016 draft's best down lineman... ;)

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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He's a beast. He single-handedly wrecked the Eagles' offense last week on a mere 44 snaps.

 

Sure did...about what I expected from a motivated Chris Jones.

 

If I couldn't have Myles Jack at 19, Chris Jones was my guy.

 

I know the numbers didn't show it last week, but Jack was everywhere against both Houston and Tennessee.

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JohnC All Pro

JohnC

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If only I could remember which intelligent, good-looking poster on this board called Jones the 2016 draft's best down lineman... ;)

It doesn't matter what you wear you will never qualify as good looking. :bag:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=alfred+e+neuman+images&rlz=1C1SFXN_enUS498US610&oq=Alfred+E+Neuman&aqs=chrome.5.69i57j0l5.17803j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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