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Bills trade Sammy Watkins to Rams for CB Gaines, 2nd rd pick

Roundybout

By Roundybout
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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Kirby Jackson
Kirby Jackson

I'm sick to my stomach. This just confirms my biggest fear about handing the organization to young guys that are the "smartest guys in the room." It has that McDaniels feel to me at the moment. These

dave mcbride
dave mcbride

Dog, they are a terrible, terrible organization.

Beast
Beast

The Bills are loaded for bear in the next draft.....franchise QB here we come!!!!   LOVE IT!!!!!!

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BillsFan4 All Pro

BillsFan4

Posted
Posted

Boldin is ancient, and Matthews is nothing more than a not so sure handed slot receiver.

I'm fine if they wanna get worse in order to build through the draft next season, but that could've been accomplished without the best building block we had. Dump TT, trade Shady...those moves make more sense. What you did with Sammy was get the worst possible return for a top WR entering his prime and finally completely healed from the foot injury.

This team is most certainly worse this season now. Nobody will respect the WR's beating them downfield, and nobody will be drawing safeties and coverage their way. I predict the pass and run game are both worse this season. Watkins will be missed within this offense...we already saw that with Taylor looking competent with him in the lineup and not so much without him. The Darby trade was fine because he is just another guy like the DB they replaced him with...no gripes with that, and no gripes with getting more draft picks.

This be competitive crap this season is dumb and counter productive to us accumulating draft picks and looking to draft a franchise QB. Should've kept the building block.

Maybe they think tanking is a terrible way to build a new culture, get player buy in and develop their rookies, and keeping TT and Shady is a better way to get the respect of their new players and develop their new cuture.

Maybe they think Tyrod deserves a shot to prove himself after playing pretty well in his first 2 seasons starting.

Maybe they felt they don't need a top 3 pick to get their QB. Many teams have gotten their QB without a top 3 pick.

 

The run game did alright last season without Sammy on the field. Having TT is going to help th run game as it did the last 2 seasons. Plus we have a very good run blocking O line. One of the best in the NFL. The run game should be fine.

The pass game we will have to wait and see. I don't think this offense is predicated on a deep threat like Roman's was. I think It's more of a horizontal passing offense, not a vertical one. It's predicated on short passes and YAC. They want to possess the ball and run the clock.

 

The worst possible return for Sammy? A 2nd and likely starting CB is definitely not the worst possible return, especially by NFL standards (especially considering they got a starting WR back in a separate but connected trade). The worst possible return would have been a comp 3rd round pick in 2019 IMO, after Sammy signs somewhere else in FA. Or worse yet no comp pick at all because the Bills can't afford not to sign free agents to help round out their roster.

 

Look at what other good players have been traded for. A 2nd and a decent CB for an often injured WR is actually a pretty decent return. Now if Sammy didn't have the injury history he does, and had actually produced and out up numbers on the field, his value would have been higher.

 

Now I'm not going to say that it doesn't hurt losing Sammy for a 2nd and a CB. It does. But worst possible return is a major over exaggeration.

 

And his foot injury might be completely healed. But he's injured like 6 different body parts in his 3 years here. Let's just wait and see if he's able to stay healthy for a whole season, and even if he is able to stay healthy for 1 season out of 4, let's see how the next few years go. I know you've already decided this trade is terrible. But that's TBD yet.

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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From Peter King's MMQB article:

The Watkins deal could hurt in the long run, for two reasons. He’s healthy this year after being plagued by a nagging foot injury. And the veterans on the Bills loved him, and won’t be happy with this deal. I can’t imagine LeSean McCoy singing kumbaya over this trade for the future. He wants to win now.
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Big Turk Hall of Famer

Big Turk

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Posted (edited)

Yep.

 

OBD has most fans by the balls.

 

Pathetic.

 

How is trading a 24 YO potential stud receiver a move for the future?

 

They'll use that 2nd round pick they got for Sammy on a WR. 😂😂

Because they are going to use the picks to try and get a QB, which in the long run is far more valuable than any WR Edited by matter2003
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oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

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Just for perspective I recall the Pats got Randy Moss for a fourth round pick.

 

I don't like the Sammy trade primarily because I felt Dennison would use him in the correct manner (slants, bubble screens, etc.), get the ball in his hands a lot, and we'd see him dominate. No one in their right mind can say that Sammy, when healthy, is not a better WR than Matthews. But there's the rub. Is he truly healthy? I think so, but maybe there's more going on than we know, injury wise or something else. I don't think guys like Beane and McD make decisions based on ego or without putting a lot of thought into things. In the end there must be something that caused them to think that getting a second rounder and a potential starting CB was worth the move. And a big part of that to me seems that they did the other deal with the Eagles. If they wound up not getting another starting WR in this move I doubt they make it. ,

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HappyDays Hall of Famer

HappyDays

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In fact the Rams gave up two firsts, two seconds and two thirds plus a lower round pick or two for Geoff. But two firsts should be more than enough ammunition for the Bills.

Bills have the best QB situation they've had in a long long time. They have an established starter who has a year to prove he can run a modern NFL offense, they have a rookie who has shown progress every week, and they're positioned to sell the farm for their top prospect next year. But coffee's for closers so let's see where this goes.

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nucci Hall of Famer

nucci

Posted
Posted (edited)

In fact the Rams gave up two firsts, two seconds and two thirds plus a lower round pick or two for Geoff. But two firsts should be more than enough ammunition for the Bills.

Just because the Rams gave up so much for Goff doesn't mean that's the market for trading up. Every situation is different. Plus we have no idea where those 1st rounders will be slotted

Edited by nucci
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oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

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Just because the Rams gave up so much for Goff doesn't mean that's the market for trading up. Every situation is different. Plus we have no idea where those 1st rounders will be slotted

So rather than look at precedent for a trade like that, you're just pulling this out of your behind. I understand now.

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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TT either proves it or doesn't this year. And we'll see how Peterman progresses. Best thing for the team would be for one of them to take the horns and get 6 starters in next year's draft.

To get where? Truth is you have no idea what the order of the draft is going to be or which teams are going to need what. If the Jets, 49ers and Browns are sitting 1,2, 3 do you think there is any chance they trade with the Bills? What about if the Jags decide to move on from Bortles?

 

The Bills may have the "ammunition" but they also need a trade partner.

 

The only way to assure that they can choose whatever QB they want, is to go full tank. Which they haven't decided to do.

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oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

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To get where? Truth is you have no idea what the order of the draft is going to be or which teams are going to need what. If the Jets, 49ers and Browns are sitting 1,2, 3 do you think there is any chance they trade with the Bills? What about if the Jags decide to move on from Bortles?

 

The Bills may have the "ammunition" but they also need a trade partner.

 

The only way to assure that they can choose whatever QB they want, is to go full tank. Which they haven't decided to do.

You're right. I am not Nostradamus. Neither are you. We will see how it plays out. But it just so happens that the picks they have from rounds 1-3 right now are a big part of what the Rams traded to the Titans to move up for Goff.

 

If TT or Peterson pans out then you have 6 high round picks to use on more players. If not then you can either go FA route and make a big run at say Garropolo or use the picks to move up. Or not. a lot will depend on how these supposed can't miss prospects play this college season, and almost assuredly some of them will fall off some.

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nucci Hall of Famer

nucci

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So rather than look at precedent for a trade like that, you're just pulling this out of your behind. I understand now.

So you can't have a back and forth discussion on something we disagree on...you just act like a dick?

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oldmanfan All Pro

oldmanfan

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So you can't have a back and forth discussion on something we disagree on...you just act like a dick?

 

So you can't have a back and forth discussion on something we disagree on...you just act like a dick?

I can. But it is clear from the past several years that if you want to move up to the #1 pick you have to spend considerable capital in draft picks. And you just make an assumption that two #1s is enough with no data or anything to back it up. Didn't mean to be overly harsh.

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Kelly the Dog Hall of Famer

Kelly the Dog

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I don't buy that veterans loved him. Maybe some did. But I don't buy it. He isn't a likeable guy by his demeanor

Peter King is an excellent reporter. When he makes opinions about stuff I can take or leave him and more often find him wrong from my POV. When he just reports on things, like this, it comes from somewhere, he is not just making it up.

 

He could be wrong of course. He obviously didn't ask each veteran what they thought of Watkins. But there is no real reason to believe this isn't true from King.

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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You're right. I am not Nostradamus. Neither are you. We will see how it plays out. But it just so happens that the picks they have from rounds 1-3 right now are a big part of what the Rams traded to the Titans to move up for Goff.

 

If TT or Peterson pans out then you have 6 high round picks to use on more players. If not then you can either go FA route and make a big run at say Garropolo or use the picks to move up. Or not. a lot will depend on how these supposed can't miss prospects play this college season, and almost assuredly some of them will fall off some.

I never claimed to be. The Rams also traded up to team that already had a QB they drafted, just a year prior. Different situations. The Jets, as I'm sure you are aware, are gunning for the 1st overall pick. They went about tanking by unloading veteran players and trying to retain young talent.

 

Beane and McD have already gone on record in that they won't build through FA, they want to build through the draft, "Thats what good teams do." So cross Garropolo and Cousins off the list. The QB will come through the draft.

 

The Bills are half in, half out right now. They won't commit to tanking.

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Coach Tuesday Hall of Famer

Coach Tuesday

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Peter King is an excellent reporter. When he makes opinions about stuff I can take or leave him and more often find him wrong from my POV. When he just reports on things, like this, it comes from somewhere, he is not just making it up.

 

He could be wrong of course. He obviously didn't ask each veteran what they thought of Watkins. But there is no real reason to believe this isn't true from King.

 

Agreed - he probably already texted with a couple of guys (Wood and McCoy are my guesses) but was asked not to disclose that, so he wrote it as something he "surmises."

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3rdand12 Hall of Famer

3rdand12

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Excellent post and well thought out. As you point out when the smoke is cleared the end result is that the team is not measurably diminished

post transactions. The benefit of these two deals is that the team is adding picks that not only will put us in a better position to acquire a qb from next year's draft but those picks will also be used to bolster a thin roster.

 

The stark reality that the believers aren't willing to accept is that this team as it was currently constructed was not a playoff team. The unrealistic believers were hoping that this season would demonstrate that TT was a capable enough qb that a franchise can build around. That has proven to be untrue for this qb who has been in this league for at least a half a dozen years. Whaley wanted to ditch him and start from scratch; McDermott was only willing to keep him as a bridge qb with a significantly reduced contract. What does that tell you about their belief in him?

 

Too many people are portraying these deals as an indication of a complete demolition of the roster. That isn't what is happening here. It is a more systematic and thoughtful approach of reworking the roster so that it can be a serious team in the not too distant future.

 

There were legitimate criticisms of Whaley of his patchwork approach to building a roster. His approach reflected a belief that this team was on the precipice toward success. That misjudgment wasn't true and was a major factor for his failure. Now we have a new regime that has a more conceptual approach to how it wants to build a roster. I consider it to be the right approach to take.

Both you and The Old Man have opinions that closer align with mine.

 

Because of what we don't know this really could go either way at this point. Truly open ended from my field of view.

Folks can take a hard stance of even dig in their heels about these moves.

I just cannot do that yet..

 

Great Main Course for discussion and then digestion !

 

@JoeBuscaglia

New #Bills CB EJ Gaines is heading to the injury tent with an athletic trainer.

 

stupid trade

 

 

@SalSports

EJ Gaines headed back to the field with his helmet. But now Adolphus Washington is going to the trainer's tent.

 

Stupid Trade!

I don't buy that veterans loved him. Maybe some did. But I don't buy it. He isn't a likeable guy by his demeanor

I don't like him. He mispelled wants, with once in his tweets. really irks me.

 

 

and heey nucci callin someone dicjk is truly poor form

wood is a douchebag

Because? I might know your answer. But want to check in again ; )

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boyst Hall of Famer

boyst

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Both you and The Old Man have opinions that closer align with mine.

 

Because of what we don't know this really could go either way at this point. Truly open ended from my field of view.

Folks can take a hard stance of even dig in their heels about these moves.

I just cannot do that yet..

 

Great Main Course for discussion and then digestion !

 

stupid trade

 

Stupid Trade!

 

I don't like him. He mispelled wants, with once in his tweets. really irks me.

 

 

and heey nucci callin someone dicjk is truly poor form

 

Because? I might know your answer. But want to check in again ; )

he likes Montgomery Gentry
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boyst Hall of Famer

boyst

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I'd just like to thank everyone for stepping up the past few days.

 

Whether you like the trade, don't like the trade, or don't really care,

this board is always better when people are pissed. :thumbsup:

I just need some recipes
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Big Turk Hall of Famer

Big Turk

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Why not have both? They have 2 No.1s next draft....should be able to get a QB with that

Not necessarily...they are going to have to pay A LOT to move up with I'm thinking 4 of the top 6 teams looking for QBs...

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Bill_with_it Veteran

Bill_with_it

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In fact the Rams gave up two firsts, two seconds and two thirds plus a lower round pick or two for Geoff. But two firsts should be more than enough ammunition for the Bills.

Dont spoil their narratives; Sammy was worth 10 1st rounders, hall of famer, and we can get the top qb in the draft with two first rounders.
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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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Quite true. Muggings were more common back when Andre played.

 

The rules had changed by then. That was the 1970s and earlier when DBs could play bump and run coverage beyond five yards. The illegal contact rule was implemented to legislate against Steelers' HOF CB Mel Blount.

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CanadianFan Veteran

CanadianFan

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So people who love this trade will like this: Cowherd thinks Rams gave up too much for Sammy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5X-3KvmGGM

 

 

But, he uses the same logic. He thinks Eagles won the trades between the three teams:

 

Real winner in NFL trade is Eagles. My NFC East pick two days ago. Get a young and quality starting CB. #wentzuponatime

 

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