Changes coming to Bills front office?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I trust them to act as adults. I think it could happen. I don't want the owner deciding either. This type of thing is common in the real business world. Cooperation, collaboration and consensus.

I'm sure they will act like adults. There seems to be a dangerous trend though

 

Whaley puts candidates together and wants Hue Jackson, the owners fall in love with Rex Ryan, Whaley says sure I can roll with that too. The owners make the call.

Whaley puts candidates together, the owners fall in love with Sean McDermott, Whaley wants to interview Steelers DC Keith Butler but says sure I can roll with McDermott. The owners make the call.

 

Now the owner is asked directly whether Whaley has ultimate say over the draft pick, and the owner basically says 'we'll take the temperature of the room.' It seems like they haven't learned yet.

 

I said this last night but again, Bill Polian takes any and every opportunity to talk about how important collaboration is, but he is the one who ultimately decides at the conclusion of the collaborative process. That doesn't mean Bill Polian was failing to act like an adult or refused to collaborate, but there needs to be a football person who makes the call at the end of the day.

 

Concern seems to be warranted here

Edited March 30, 2017 by 2018 Our Year For Sure

[Augie]

Football people, of course. Not marketing or accounting types.

 

 

And, right or wrong, I thought Rex was a Peg's choice and McD was more of a Whaley thing.

[chris heff]

This just in, Vic liked Ralph better than Terry, because he listened to his four year old daughter dressed as a cow girl. More evidence of the disfuction at One Bills Drive.

[oldmanfan]

Except thats not what we stated. Russ Brandon is in the room during draft days if he states his heated, uncanny ability to persuade opinion, is it a qualified professional (to state who to draft)? Cmon man. Is overdorf who is in the draft room a qualified professional (to state who to draft)?

. They have said Brandon is not involved in football decisions and it was clear from the interview the principals were the HC and GM that Pegula was discussing. You're making things up now.

I'm sure they will act like adults. There seems to be a dangerous trend though

 

Whaley puts candidates together and wants Hue Jackson, the owners fall in love with Rex Ryan, Whaley says sure I can roll with that too. The owners make the call.

Whaley puts candidates together, the owners fall in love with Sean McDermott, Whaley wants to interview Steelers DC Keith Butler but says sure I can roll with McDermott. The owners make the call.

 

Now the owner is asked directly whether Whaley has ultimate say over the draft pick, and the owner basically says 'we'll take the temperature of the room.' It seems like they haven't learned yet.

 

I said this last night but again, Bill Polian takes any and every opportunity to talk about how important collaboration is, but he is the one who ultimately decides at the conclusion of the collaborative process. That doesn't mean Bill Polian was failing to act like an adult or refused to collaborate, but there needs to be a football person who makes the call at the end of the day.

 

Concern seems to be warranted here

. Well it's either the HC or GM who are both football men.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

. They have said Brandon is not involved in football decisions and it was clear from the interview the principals were the HC and GM that Pegula was discussing. You're making things up now.

. Well it's either the HC or GM who are both football men.

The owner was directly asked whether it is the GM and balked at the notion

[Augie]

The owner was directly asked whether it is the GM and balked at the notion

Does he owe someone an answer to every question? He has a $1.4 BILLION dollar toy, and he can do what he wants without owing us any answers. We can then decide whether we like it or not. Vote with your feet and dollars.

[Bill_with_it]

. They have said Brandon is not involved in football decisions and it was clear from the interview the principals were the HC and GM that Pegula was discussing. You're making things up now.

. Well it's either the HC or GM who are both football men.

They said if someone or somebody, what they didnt say is those pronouns are limited to Doug Whaley and Sean. I didnt make a thing up at all. The owner stated that. There are more people in the draft room than Whaley and Sean. Overdorf was just recently thanked for the suggestion of re adding a retired injured Harvin and they did just as he suggested.

[oldmanfan]

The owner was directly asked whether it is the GM and balked at the notion

he said if there is s disagreement then whomever feels strongest about a player may get slanted towards. The entire discussion was about the HC and GM, the two football guys. To suggest Brandon or Overdorf or the janitor somehow would get input is not supported by anything.

 

I would rather it be the GM myself. But the larger point is having a HC and GM in sync, which everyone has affirmed. So why grasp the one comment as gospel and ignore the other?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Does he owe someone an answer to every question? He has a $1.4 BILLION dollar toy, and he can do what he wants without owing us any answers. We can then decide whether we like it or not. Vote with your feet and dollars.

What is the relevance of this post? I'm sharing my take on what the owner had to say, is that not the kind of thing this board is meant for?

[oldmanfan]

They said if someone or somebody, what they didnt say is those pronouns are limited to Doug Whaley and Sean. I didnt make a thing up at all. The owner stated that. There are more people in the draft room than Whaley and Sean. Overdorf was just recently thanked for the suggestion of re adding a retired injured Harvin and they did just as he suggested.

. The entire conversation and question was about the GMand HC. You are making things up.

[Augie]

What is the relevance of this post? I'm sharing my take on what the owner had to say, is that not the kind of thing this board is meant for?

And I'm sharing that if he doesn't want to answer any questions clearly (or at all), he doesn't have to. How is that irrelevant?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

he said if there is s disagreement then whomever feels strongest about a player may get slanted towards. The entire discussion was about the HC and GM, the two football guys. To suggest Brandon or Overdorf or the janitor somehow would get input is not supported by anything.

 

I would rather it be the GM myself. But the larger point is having a HC and GM in sync, which everyone has affirmed. So why grasp the one comment as gospel and ignore the other?

Right but who is doing the slanting? That's what he was asked, is it Whaley who ultimately decides, and he balked at the notion that it is Whaley.

 

I can see we're just going to go around in circles though, think what you like, bud. I get the sense that the owners are still very much in the learning process.

And I'm sharing that if he doesn't want to answer any questions clearly (or at all), he doesn't have to. How is that irrelevant?

He did answer though

[Augie]

Right but who is doing the slanting? That's what he was asked, is it Whaley who ultimately decides, and he balked at the notion that it is Whaley.

I can see we're just going to go around in circles though, think what you like, bud. I get the sense that the owners are still very much in the learning process.He did answer though

Anyone in the first few years on the job are fighting a learning curve.

 

You said "he balked at the notion". So, did he answer? Or not? Or did you just not like the answer? Regardless, he owes us nothing in terms in insight into the inner workings.

[Bill_with_it]

. The entire conversation and question was about the GMand HC. You are making things up.

Did you listen to or watch the presser? You dont have to answer that because its clear you didnt. They spoke about at least 10 different things: league owners meeting agenda, raiders relocating, stadium for bills, rift between whaley and Sean, one voice, whaleys future, bringing in a guy from the panthers, tyrodntaylor, thoughts on Sean, hardeat part of being an owner, and who/how the pic would be made. Might want to watch the entire interview before making such a proclamation.

Ill assist you as it seems you didn't

 

Q: When it comes time to make that pick at 10 whose final call will that be?

 

A: It's going to be a group effort.

 

Q: Is that some where every pick will be a group consensus?

 

A: I think the answer I just gave you. Obviously when I say it's a group effort. It's just like everything else most businesses do in their life. If somebody feels more strongly about something than somebody else than maybe you lean in that direction.

 

The interviewer nor owner implied or insinuated it was between the hc or gm. You made that assumption. I never stated a janitor thats ludicrous what would he be doing in the draft room (lol). But if you recall because It happened, who irged the team to sign and bring back percy? Was that abgood idea?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Anyone in the first few years on the job are fighting a learning curve.

 

You said "he balked at the notion". So, did he answer? Or not? Or did you just not like the answer? Regardless, he owes us nothing in terms in insight into the inner workings.

Yes that's what I'm saying, I don't like his answer. I don't mean that to say he owes me anything, of course he doesn't. But he gave an answer that, as I see it, outlines a draft process which is different from that in NE, Denver, Green Bay, Seattle, Baltimore, New Jersey (Giants) etc. If you ask Robert Kraft whether Bill Belichick has authority over the draft pick the answer is "yes," and of course collaboration is still involved. But there's a football guy with his finger on the button. Pegula was directly asked whether Whaley plays that role here, and again, balked at the notion.

[Augie]

Yes that's what I'm saying, I don't like his answer. I don't mean that to say he owes me anything, of course he doesn't. But he gave an answer that, as I see it, outlines a draft process which is different from that in NE, Denver, Green Bay, Seattle, Baltimore, New Jersey (Giants) etc. If you ask Robert Kraft whether Bill Belichick has authority over the draft pick the answer is "yes," and of course collaboration is still involved. But there's a football guy with his finger on the button. Pegula was directly asked whether Whaley plays that role here, and again, balked at the notion.

I'm sure he has his reasons. I can't get worked up about that. We don't have a first ballot HOF guy in the front office. Very few teams do. I'll just hope and pray for the best.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I'm sure he has his reasons. I can't get worked up about that. We don't have a first ballot HOF guy in the front office. Very few teams do. I'll just hope and pray for the best.

All we can do. Go Bills

 

Looking forward to those snarky comments tomorrow. Bring it TBD

[Nihilarian]

 

Didn't sound like to me that he "couldn't", sounded more like he didn't want to, and I don't blame him. He owes the press nothing on how he runs his organization; who has power over what. There's nothing wrong with a consensus approach.

 

I've heard Pat Kirwan of Sirius XM Radio Movin the Chains tell his story several times of when Bill Cowher and Donahoe or even Colbert later were ever in disagreement on football matters, Rooney would tell them both point blank, "lock yourselves in a room and don't come out until you have a unified decision decision for me"

 

Seemed to have worked well then...

What's humorous about that bolded part is that Tom Donahoe lost a power struggle with Bill Cowher in Pittsburgh. They realized that Donahoe was making bad choices and was ultimately fired for it.

 

Now for the sad part for Buffalo is that the late owner had a penchant in his later years for hiring people that were fired in their old jobs and then inexplicably promoting them and for promoting from within the org. Donahoe was fired as director of football operations (GM) for the Steelers in 1999 and was hired as team president in Buffalo with the owner retiring. We all learned the hard way as to why Donahoe was fired in Pittsburgh.

 

Chan Gailey was another man fired as the Chiefs OC and was hired in Buffalo to be the HC by Buddy Nix. Initially, in that particular coaching search, Nix wanted to hire a more prominent name who had a history of rebuilding broken NFL teams into winners and the owner said no. Speaking of Nix, he retired at the age of 70 after years of never becoming a GM and the Bills hired him to be their GM.

 

 

 

On another note, from what I've seen so far from Whaley is that he doesn't have what it takes to field a balanced well-rounded NFL team with solid backups at all positions. Heck, the guy didn't even find the current starting QB or the all-pro LG and from what we have seen so far his choices in those positions have been nowhere near the performance level of the current starters. The Bills are now overpaying at the starting RB / TE positions because the Bills GM/scouts can't seem to find quality talent in the draft. Most Bills fans know that if the Bills hadn't given up three draft picks for Sammy Watkins (two firsts) that their choice would have been TE Eric Ebron.

 

Ebron is another player who hasn't even been able to play in all 16 years each year since he was drafted 10th overall by Detroit in 2014. Not to mention that his stats really aren't very good considering he is on a team with a QB who throws for over four thousand yards every season. The Bills could have made 12 other choices that year in the first round that would have resulted in pro bowl player.

 

 

In my view, the best thing that has happened to this franchise over the last decade was the hiring of DC Jim Schwartz who made both Whaley and Marrone look acceptable for a season. The man took over a Hodge-podge 3-4 hybrid defense that three other men couldn't get out of the 20's and got them to #4 overall. Then we all saw what a supposed defensive guru did to that #4 defense after Schwartz. Granted, Schwartz walked into a great situation in Buffalo that fit his scheme. Sad that the team couldn't find a way to keep him.

 

This is the type of ineptitude we have seen over the years from the Bills FO in that when the team does find a scheme that works to fit the players on the roster that they turn around and go in a different direction. Now this year the team wants to go back to the 4-3 with a brand new HC. This after the team just drafted the first three picks to fit Ryan's 3-4.

 

 

Let's face it, that this team is in desperate need of an established senior NFL man at the top of the football side of the org like an Ozzie Newsome or a Ted Thompson who knows how to build a solid team through the draft Someone who knows QB talent and player talent in all positions like those two men.

 

Lastly, does it really matter who makes the final choice in Buffalo? I have very little confidence that anyone in the current Bills FO who makes the final choice will get it right.

[GunnerBill]

You are correct we are done. Your logic means that the Bills first rounder wont make the 53, or somebody exclusively means Doug Whaley, or Terry is a liar. Thats your ill founded logic.

Explain how does it mean that? Cos I have tried to follow and I am lost.

[oldmanfan]

Did you listen to or watch the presser? You dont have to answer that because its clear you didnt. They spoke about at least 10 different things: league owners meeting agenda, raiders relocating, stadium for bills, rift between whaley and Sean, one voice, whaleys future, bringing in a guy from the panthers, tyrodntaylor, thoughts on Sean, hardeat part of being an owner, and who/how the pic would be made. Might want to watch the entire interview before making such a proclamation.

Ill assist you as it seems you didn't

 

Q: When it comes time to make that pick at 10 whose final call will that be?

 

A: It's going to be a group effort.

 

Q: Is that some where every pick will be a group consensus?

 

A: I think the answer I just gave you. Obviously when I say it's a group effort. It's just like everything else most businesses do in their life. If somebody feels more strongly about something than somebody else than maybe you lean in that direction.

 

The interviewer nor owner implied or insinuated it was between the hc or gm. You made that assumption. I never stated a janitor thats ludicrous what would he be doing in the draft room (lol). But if you recall because It happened, who irged the team to sign and bring back percy? Was that abgood idea?

I watched it. The questions were about the dumb LaCanfora thing about GM vs HC. You're making things up.

[boater]

....

 

Lastly, does it really matter who makes the final choice in Buffalo? I have very little confidence that anyone in the current Bills FO who makes the final choice will get it right.

Well, that's an awfully dark sentiment.

 

I see it differently. What is more important, pick one:

• very good coaching
• very good front office
• very good sync between front office and coaching (regardless of how good they are individually)

I choose very good coaching as the most important factor in team success. The Bills sucked because Rex sucked. FO could have been rock stars, and it probably would have added only game to the W column.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic because I think the Bills may have the right coach. FO is average, while that sucks, it isn't a death sentence if the coach is good or better.

[thebandit27]

You're missing a very important nuance in the statement... It's "maybe you lean in that direction". Nothing about that statements says anything about anyone overruling anyone. It speaks to a tendency where one might persuade the others in the room to see his vision and come to a collective agreement. It's not a decision hierarchy.

 

 

This is bananas, guy. The leaps you are taking is like something a crazy person would think when they heard that interview.

 

 

. They have said Brandon is not involved in football decisions and it was clear from the interview the principals were the HC and GM that Pegula was discussing. You're making things up now.

. Well it's either the HC or GM who are both football men.

 

I give you guys credit for trying--at some point, even I get tired of explaining things.

 

Explain how does it mean that? Cos I have tried to follow and I am lost.

 

 

There's a Princess Bride meme for everything these days

Edited March 30, 2017 by thebandit27

[Thurman#1]

Well, that's an awfully dark sentiment.

 

I see it differently. What is more important, pick one:

• very good coaching
• very good front office
• very good sync between front office and coaching (regardless of how good they are individually)

I choose very good coaching as the most important factor in team success. The Bills sucked because Rex sucked. FO could have been rock stars, and it probably would have added only game to the W column.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic because I think the Bills may have the right coach. FO is average, while that sucks, it isn't a death sentence if the coach is good or better.

 

 

Very good front office for two, Alex.

 

Bringing in the right players is the key thing. After that you can get by with solid coaching. You can't have awful coaching, but solid is fine if the players are are there.

 

I can understand cautious optimism, but I'm at this point more from Missouri.

[Bill_with_it]

I watched it. The questions were about the dumb LaCanfora thing about GM vs HC. You're making things up.

No I am not. The transcripts are there for you. Here is the link read it:http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/03/terry_pegula_discusses_doug_whaley_buffalo_bills_stadium_more_at_nfl_owners_meet.html

 

 

 

 

 

I give you guys credit for trying--at some point, even I get tired of explaining things.

 

 

 

There's a Princess Bride meme for everything these days

Thats your style when your proven wrong to post memes.

Explain how does it mean that? Cos I have tried to follow and I am lost.

The guy said Whaley is in complete control of the 53.

The owner said that if someone feels more strongly about the pick than maybe you lean that way.

First round draft pick will make the 53 this year barring a disaster.

Someone other than the GM could persuade the owner into a different pick than the GM.

Therefore the GM isnt in complete control of the 53.

[thebandit27]

Thats your style when your proven wrong to post memes.

 

I told you before: feel free to carry on your conspiracy theory. I deal in facts, which means I'm done with you (at least on this topic--I suppose there's always the chance that, in another topic, you'll deal in reality).

[oldmanfan]

No I am not. The transcripts are there for you. Here is the link read it:http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/03/terry_pegula_discusses_doug_whaley_buffalo_bills_stadium_more_at_nfl_owners_meet.html

Thats your style when your proven wrong to post memes.

The guy said Whaley is in complete control of the 53.

The owner said that if someone feels more strongly about the pick than maybe you lean that way.

First round draft pick will make the 53 this year barring a disaster.

Someone other than the GM could persuade the owner into a different pick than the GM.

Therefore the GM isnt in complete control of the 53.

The answer from Pegula right before the draft question referred to the HC and GM. It is clear when speaking about group that's what he talked about. You are making things up.

[YoloinOhio]

I'm secretly hoping it's actually someone like the team Chaplain James Trapp who makes the final call if there is a disagreement, and we find out on this year's video of inside the war room, just so some of y'all heads will explode . Is that guy stlll on staff, you know to decide which plays to challenge?

Edited March 30, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Augie]

I'm secretly hoping it's actually someone like the team Chaplain James Trapp who makes the final call if there is a disagreement, and we find out on this year's video of inside the war room, just so some of y'all heads will explode . Is that guy stlll on staff, you know to decide which plays to challenge?

HEY! The Chapain might make the most sense, if, you know, he's got some really good connections.

 

I don't know why this is such a big deal to some people. I've been on various management committees where the chairman goes with the flow, even if it's not their preference. There are times where the guy with the clout could veto a move, but values the input of others and gives it a shot. And, sometimes, the word comes down that this is how it's going to go.

[BadLandsMeanie]

I'm secretly hoping it's actually someone like the team Chaplain James Trapp who makes the final call if there is a disagreement, and we find out on this year's video of inside the war room, just so some of y'all heads will explode . Is that guy stlll on staff, you know to decide which plays to challenge?

Post of the day!

 

 

Would he take a Hail Mary on a QB?

[YoloinOhio]

HEY! The Chapain might make the most sense, if, you know, he's got some really good connections.

 

I don't know why this is such a big deal to some people. I've been on various management committees where the chairman goes with the flow, even if it's not their preference. There are times where the guy with the clout could veto a move, but values the input of others and gives it a shot. And, sometimes, the word comes down that this is how it's going to go.

well he is "faith based" so Pegs likes him but not sure how good of a wrestler he is

[Tenhigh]

well he is "faith based" so Pegs likes him but not sure how good of a wrestler he is

Seems like a great opportunity to insert any "priest wrestling with an altar boy" joke of your choosing.

[Dr. Who]

HEY! The Chapain might make the most sense, if, you know, he's got some really good connections.

 

I don't know why this is such a big deal to some people. I've been on various management committees where the chairman goes with the flow, even if it's not their preference. There are times where the guy with the clout could veto a move, but values the input of others and gives it a shot. And, sometimes, the word comes down that this is how it's going to go.

This is a sound explication of how collaborative decisions are often reached. I also agree with wiskibreth's comment that the interview should not be taken as the elucidation of a decision hierarchy. Years of failure make people angry and they presume everything is keystone cops. I surmise more probable is that the Pegulas are intelligent, sincere people who are fundamentally decent, but naive and inexperienced as owners of professional sports franchises. There is a learning curve for everything. I think it will be okay and at minimum, without their intervention, we don't have teams to argue about.

 

Just for chuckles, I wish they would work out an NFL draft room skit where the Chaplain breaks the tie, but then we'd likely get more knee-slapping priest jokes and less subtle accusations that the Pegulas are stupid because they are religious and value people of faith, so maybe not.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dr. Who

[Bill_with_it]

The answer from Pegula right before the draft question referred to the HC and GM. It is clear when speaking about group that's what he talked about. You are making things up.

Right and the question right after the one voice question was about Ralph and his fervent stance on not voting to approve teams to move. Those two questions must be related too. Edited March 30, 2017 by Bill_with_it

[Tenhigh]

Enough already.

[YoloinOhio]

This is a sound explication of how collaborative decisions are often reached. I also agree with wiskibreth's comment that the interview should not be taken as the elucidation of a decision hierarchy. Years of failure make people angry and they presume everything is keystone cops. I surmise more probable is that the Pegulas are intelligent, sincere people who are fundamentally decent, but naive and inexperienced as owners of professional sports franchises. There is a learning curve for everything. I think it will be okay and at minimum, without their intervention, we don't have teams to argue about.

 

Just for chuckles, I wish they would work out an NFL draft room skit where the Chaplain breaks the tie, but then we'd likely get more knee-slapping priest jokes and less subtle accusations that the Pegulas are stupid because they are religious and value people of faith, so maybe not.

the whole thing is off-season MUD!

[Chicken Boo]

So everybody was wrong again?

 

Color me not surprised.

[jeffismagic]

Bills "Brain" Trust motivations.

 

Terry and Kim Pegula: Mad at Rex for making them look bad, Love wrestler Sean and want the defense to improve to show up Rex

 

Sean McDermott: Conservative defensive coach who thinks he has to win quickly. Has kept the veteran QB that wasn't good enough for the GM and hired Leslie Tampa 2 Frazier to run the defense. Will want to please the Pegulas by improving the defense.

 

Doug Whaley: GM who has lost power to Sean and who the Pegulas have ignored twice in 2 coaching searches. Normally a gambler but will he play errand boy to the wrestler to save his job? If he likes a QB will he dare bring it up when everyone else in the room is on a different page?

 

Russ Brandon: Not involved in football decisions but sits in the draft room with the Pegulas. Probably would want Watson or Chad Kelly if ticket sales and excitement were the goal.

 

Here comes the draft. Let's see what the group decides.

[papazoid]

Buffalo Bills' 2016 draft grade lowered by ESPN Insider's Mel Kiper Jr.

 

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/03/buffalo_bills_2016_draft_grade_lowered_by_espn_insiders_mel_kiper_jr.html

[Cripple Creek]

So everybody was wrong again?

 

Color me not surprised.

Pardon me? The chaplain was dismissed. McCoach is indeed flexing his muscles.

[eball]

Bills "Brain" Trust motivations.

 

Terry and Kim Pegula: Mad at Rex for making them look bad, Love wrestler Sean and want the defense to improve to show up Rex

 

Sean McDermott: Conservative defensive coach who thinks he has to win quickly. Has kept the veteran QB that wasn't good enough for the GM and hired Leslie Tampa 2 Frazier to run the defense. Will want to please the Pegulas by improving the defense.

 

Doug Whaley: GM who has lost power to Sean and who the Pegulas have ignored twice in 2 coaching searches. Normally a gambler but will he play errand boy to the wrestler to save his job? If he likes a QB will he dare bring it up when everyone else in the room is on a different page?

 

Russ Brandon: Not involved in football decisions but sits in the draft room with the Pegulas. Probably would want Watson or Chad Kelly if ticket sales and excitement were the goal.

 

Here comes the draft. Let's see what the group decides.

 

None of this is even close to reality. Good god, this board has become unreadable.