Bangarang Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 what about our defense choking? giving up the lead to miami? Why does it have to be one or the other with some people? The defense was bad. Our QB play a lot of the time was equally as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Why does it have to be one or the other with some people? The defense was bad. Our QB play a lot of the time was equally as bad. because it takes a team to win the superbowl. the seahawks masked wilsons bad qb play and won a superbowl with dominant defense and a big run game. until we get the big time qb that is our path to success. even with the big time qb we will need a big defense or else you turn into new orleans or the colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Let's do a thought exercise. Let's say we had the Eagles D instead of the Bils D in 2016. The Eagles D - not ranked in the top 10 in points or yards - allowed 20.7 points per game. If only Rex could have delivered that. So let's say we gave up exactly 20.7 games on D every game. We would have finished 11-5, maybe 12-4 if TT had been allowed to play the last game. Here's another point of view. With Lynn as OC and TT under center, the Bills scored a whopping 27 points per game. Let's compare that to the glory years of Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed: 1990: 26.8 1991: 28.6 1992: 23.8 1993: 20.6 Tyrod is a flawed QB. He doesn't lead enough 4th quarter come-backs. His accuracy is inconsistent. He waits for receivers to get open instead of throwing them open. Etc. Nonetheless, he led a potent offense that would have been a lot less potent with a less dynamic QB. Tyrod played well enough that - with a competent defense - the Bills should have been in the playoffs. You can't give Tyrod credit for everything the offense did. The run game was terrific. The pass game was sub-standard. Not you necessarily, but folks on here are desperate to point out how lousy the defense was and are strangely silent on how terrific the run game was. A good run game is a huge advantage for a competent QB. It's not a mistake teams said "Make him be a quarterback." Defenses weren't worried about our pass game. I don't recall anyone saying that about Rodgers. Edited January 22, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 because it takes a team to win the superbowl. the seahawks masked wilsons bad qb play and won a superbowl with dominant defense and a big run game. until we get the big time qb that is our path to success. even with the big time qb we will need a big defense or else you turn into new orleans or the colts Dude Wilson was 10x the QB TT was their first seasons starting. Use. Your. Eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 because it takes a team to win the superbowl. the seahawks masked wilsons bad qb play and won a superbowl with dominant defense and a big run game. until we get the big time qb that is our path to success. even with the big time qb we will need a big defense or else you turn into new orleans or the colts So let's stop making silly excuses for a clearly flawed QB or twisting and turning stats to fit an argument and just accept the fact that Tyrod is not that good. Keep him since he's still our best option to win but stil keep looking for that long term guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) because it takes a team to win the superbowl. the seahawks masked wilsons bad qb play and won a superbowl with dominant defense and a big run game. until we get the big time qb that is our path to success. even with the big time qb we will need a big defense or else you turn into new orleans or the colts What bad QB play? Wilson's bad QB play pretty much didn't exist. The year they won the SB Wilson completed 63.1%, hit 8.2 YPA, had a QB rating of 101.6 and had 26 TDs and 9 INTs. And by the way had four 4th quarter comebacks and 5 game-winning drives. Wilson has been good from day one. And it started in his rookie year, not his fifth in the league. And unlike Tyrod, he didn't regress. Just the opposite. Nor did Seattle fire an OC and have the replacement OC say that one of the things he was going to do was to simplify the reads. Wilson never appeared to be a bridge QB, and Tyrod really does. Edited January 22, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 What bad QB play? Wilson's bad QB play pretty much didn't exist. The year they won the SB Wilson completed 63.1%, hit 8.2 YPA, had a QB rating of 101.6 and had 26 TDs and 9 INTs. And by the way had four 4th quarter comebacks and 5 game-winning drives. Wilson has been good from day one. And it started in his rookie year, not his fifth in the league. And unlike Tyrod, he didn't regress. Just the opposite. Nor did Seattle fire an OC and have the replacement OC say that one of the things he was going to do was to simplify the reads. Wilson never appeared to be a bridge QB, and Tyrod really does. Day one is an exaggeration but he was much better by the end of his first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 TT is an average to below average starter. If the heavens align he could take you to the playoffs - true. But he's inaccurate, slow on delivery and takes way to long to recognize an open receiver. If this is all tha makes you happy, well then he's your guy. I want a real franchise QB like that loser Aaron Rodgers. One of the more telling things I saw last season was watching defenses stack the box against the run and go straight up man or man with a robber on Watkins. I kept watching for Taylor to audible out and I honestly never saw that happen. Either he wasn't allowed to do so or he decided not to. Either way, that is terribly concerning to me. A QB has to be able to take advantage of those situations because you aren't going to beat good teams if you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 rodgers wishes he could be tyrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 When trailing in the 4th,quarter by more than 1 point against teams with a winning record. You know why I posted this stat Tyrod haters. I feel bad for you man. We've all had to come to terms with being Bills fans at some point - but this is pretty rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Holy ****!! I never knew Aaron Rodgers was so bad. Thanks for shedding the light on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 rodgers wishes he could be tyrod Zoinks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 One of the more telling things I saw last season was watching defenses stack the box against the run and go straight up man or man with a robber on Watkins. I kept watching for Taylor to audible out and I honestly never saw that happen. Either he wasn't allowed to do so or he decided not to. Either way, that is terribly concerning to me. A QB has to be able to take advantage of those situations because you aren't going to beat good teams if you can't. Seems two OCs didn't trust him to see the field pre-snap and that reasonably ties to not wanting to use the middle of the field potentially--- we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 7-9 30th in passing........can't beat .500 teams. Anti Tyrod narrative still good as gold. The 30th in passing is so 2016 already Ryan. If someone worked 3 hours and made $100 an hour to earn his $300, would you say that person is inferior to the person working 80 hrs making $5 an hour to earn his $400? Zoinks !/thread. 😍 Edited January 22, 2017 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 His is similar to the 300 yard passing stat. They are stats that at the end of the day don't tell the only narrative anyone is really interested in. Who won is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Rodgers can't win close games. He's bad in clutch situations. And yet he's got the 2nd highest passer rating in the last 5 minutes of a game when trailing by 8 or less (among the QBs examined). Funny how statistics can tell two opposite stories. showing again, statistics are just a tool. Not a definitive of a player or team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 What bad QB play? Wilson's bad QB play pretty much didn't exist. The year they won the SB Wilson completed 63.1%, hit 8.2 YPA, had a QB rating of 101.6 and had 26 TDs and 9 INTs. And by the way had four 4th quarter comebacks and 5 game-winning drives. Wilson has been good from day one. And it started in his rookie year, not his fifth in the league. And unlike Tyrod, he didn't regress. Just the opposite. Nor did Seattle fire an OC and have the replacement OC say that one of the things he was going to do was to simplify the reads. Wilson never appeared to be a bridge QB, and Tyrod really does. 27th in passing in the league. 17th in all yards. 9th in points. wilson threw for 3100 yards. and the myth of his 4th quarter comebacks. comes back on green bay and wins game 14-12. where was he the rest of the game? i'd love if our defense could hold green bay to 12 points! comes back and wins against new england...defense holds ne to 6 points in the entire 2nd half. beats chi 23-17, defense holds a good chi team that year to 17 points, beats stl 20-13...again lets see our defense hold someone to 13 points, and beats the skins 24-14 in the 4th...again lets see our defense hold someone to 14 points. it's funny what a great defense can do to make a qb look great. let's start with getting our defense right cause no qb is going to be successful without the defense. i am all for getting better qb play. if it's in this draft go for it. if not the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 27th in passing in the league. 17th in all yards. 9th in points. wilson threw for 3100 yards. and the myth of his 4th quarter comebacks. comes back on green bay and wins game 14-12. where was he the rest of the game? i'd love if our defense could hold green bay to 12 points! comes back and wins against new england...defense holds ne to 6 points in the entire 2nd half. beats chi 23-17, defense holds a good chi team that year to 17 points, beats stl 20-13...again lets see our defense hold someone to 13 points, and beats the skins 24-14 in the 4th...again lets see our defense hold someone to 14 points. it's funny what a great defense can do to make a qb look great. let's start with getting our defense right cause no qb is going to be successful without the defense. i am all for getting better qb play. if it's in this draft go for it. if not the next one. Its tiresome dealing with Stupid. The Bills had 205 fewer pass ATTEMPTS than the leader in pass attempts last year (Baltimore). 205. Let that sink in. Thats almost 6 games worth of pass attempts. And people continue to criticize TT for not having passing yards. Its hard to argue with Stupid. TT ran the offense his coaches wanted him to run and he did so at a clip of 7th in scoring leading into Week 17 and top 10 in scoring in the NFL since 2015. Hard to argue with Stupid. TT cant beat .500 teams? With playoffs STILL in sight TT had the game of his career against the Dolphins which set an alltime record for scrimmage yards by a Bills offense. A record. Hard to argue with stupid. By comparison, Kirk Cousins with the season on the line choked vs the Giants. Kirk Cousins failed to beat a single team above .500 last year (2015). So does he suck? Hard to argue with Stupid. Edited January 22, 2017 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I want a real franchise QB like that loser Aaron Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Its tiresome dealing with Stupid. The Bills had 205 fewer pass ATTEMPTS than the leader in pass attempts last year (Baltimore). 205. Let that sink in. Thats almost 6 games worth of pass attempts. And people continue to criticize TT for not having passing yards. Its hard to argue with Stupid. TT ran the offense his coaches wanted him to run and he did so at a clip of 7th in scoring leading into Week 17 and top 10 in scoring in the NFL since 2015. Hard to argue with Stupid. TT cant beat .500 teams? With playoffs STILL in sight TT had the game of his career against the Dolphins which set an alltime record for scrimmage yards by a Bills offense. A record. Hard to argue with stupid. By comparison, Kirk Cousins with the season on the line choked vs the Giants. Kirk Cousins failed to beat a single team above .500 last year (2015). So does he suck? Hard to argue with Stupid. Do you think if gifted a franchise qb our pass attempts would've shot up? I happen to think so which means that the lack of yards being a result of lack of attempts isn't much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 OP, you make a good point - it's a point about garbage stats, not necessarily about Rodgers and/or Tyrod. But people should keep stuff like this in mind whenever they see ridiculous stats like "4th quarter comebacks when trailing against teams with winning records" cited about anyone. It all has to do with the unrepresentative samples anyone can create by slicing and dicing the variables in whatever way gives you an "oh, wow" result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 good. I took the points. I hope they trail by 5 or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 OP, you make a good point - it's a point about garbage stats, not necessarily about Rodgers and/or Tyrod. But people should keep stuff like this in mind whenever they see ridiculous stats like "4th quarter comebacks when trailing against teams with winning records" cited about anyone. It all has to do with the unrepresentative samples anyone can create by slicing and dicing the variables in whatever way gives you an "oh, wow" result. Yeah the point really is that many Bills fans are simply ignorant when it comes to evaluating quarterback play. Here's another bit of perspective: Jim Kelly played 11 seasons for the Bills. In the last 11 seasons Tom Brady has won only 1 Super Bowl. Yes, quarterback is by far the most important position in the league but it's not "all limiting" to not have one of the very best. Taylor is nowhere near as bad or limiting to the Bills success as many here want to make him appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Yeah the point really is that many Bills fans are simply ignorant when it comes to evaluating quarterback play. Here's another bit of perspective: Jim Kelly played 11 seasons for the Bills. In the last 11 seasons Tom Brady has won only 1 Super Bowl. Yes, quarterback is by far the most important position in the league but it's not "all limiting" to not have one of the very best. Taylor is nowhere near as bad or limiting to the Bills success as many here want to make him appear. No, he's not as limiting for sure. That said, do you trust him to win a game with his arm when necessary? I personally don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 No, he's not as limiting for sure. That said, do you trust him to win a game with his arm when necessary? I personally don't. How about his legs? I too would prefer his arm developed, but the kid really makes some crazy plays with his legs. Stuff that no one else can do in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 If I need a 4th quarter comeback, Rodgers is probably my #1 guy. Tyrod probably is somewhere in the 20-25 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I prefer to lead by 20 going into the fourth quarter and have a defense that doesn't give up 28 straight points. I want a team with a much better passing attack. Whether that is TT, a new OC, and a healthy set or WR, or Jay Culter I don't really care. This team would have been playing in the divisional round of the playoffs last week coming off a playoff win if the defense was just average. They replaced a defensive minded HC with another defensive minded HC. How often does that happen? The only truth that Whaley spoke at his PC was Rex's defense wasn't good enough. Whaley screwed up with EJ but he was right about Rex. Let's hope he he is right about this QB decision. I think Whaley likes TT just a smidge more than Maj does and that means it is more than likely there is another QB under center next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 If I need a 4th quarter comeback, Rodgers is probably my #1 guy. Tyrod probably is somewhere in the 20-25 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 No, he's not as limiting for sure. That said, do you trust him to win a game with his arm when necessary? I personally don't. No and I don't consider him THE long term solution. But as evidenced by his strong finish to the season......I don't think we've necessarily seen the finished product that he can become either. As an aside......I do like the fact that.....in a division dominated by the most fundamentally sound team in the NFL.........he gives us an unconventional attack that can extend plays and can break down a well drawn-up defense. That's really where the "give me Jay Cutler type" argument goes flying off the rails. That's fighting a blow torch with a bic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaNole3 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 When trailing in the 4th,quarter by more than 1 point against teams with a winning record. You know why I posted this stat Tyrod haters. Tom Brady has never won when trailing by 1 point or more at the end of the 4th qtr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I prefer to lead by 20 going into the fourth quarter and have a defense that doesn't give up 28 straight points. I want a team with a much better passing attack. Whether that is TT, a new OC, and a healthy set or WR, or Jay Culter I don't really care. This team would have been playing in the divisional round of the playoffs last week coming off a playoff win if the defense was just average. They replaced a defensive minded HC with another defensive minded HC. How often does that happen? The only truth that Whaley spoke at his PC was Rex's defense wasn't good enough. Whaley screwed up with EJ but he was right about Rex. Let's hope he he is right about this QB decision. I think Whaley likes TT just a smidge more than Maj does and that means it is more than likely there is another QB under center next year. What was bobobooey saying about arguing with stupid, look up the Bills defense and you'll find they were average. OMFG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 again with the name calling just sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 No and I don't consider him THE long term solution. But as evidenced by his strong finish to the season......I don't think we've necessarily seen the finished product that he can become either. As an aside......I do like the fact that.....in a division dominated by the most fundamentally sound team in the NFL.........he gives us an unconventional attack that can extend plays and can break down a well drawn-up defense. That's really where the "give me Jay Cutler type" argument goes flying off the rails. That's fighting a blow torch with a bic. Yeah, I'd agree with pretty much all of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Aaron Rodgers is tremendous. The Bills have never had and will never have a QB of such quality. Period. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Aaron Rodgers is tremendous. The Bills have never had and will never have a QB of such quality. Period. End of story. wow just wow Edited January 22, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 When trailing in the 4th,quarter by more than 1 point against teams with a winning record. You know why I posted this stat Tyrod haters. So what. Just watching them play, it's obvious that one guy has complete mastery of his offense, and that the other guy struggles with aspects of his and hasn't shown significant improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 So what. Just watching them play, it's obvious that one guy has complete mastery of his offense, and that the other guy struggles with aspects of his and hasn't shown significant improvement. So far today he ain't doing jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 If I need a 4th quarter comeback, Rodgers is probably my #1 guy. Tyrod probably is somewhere in the 20-25 range. The desperation to prop up Taylor is pretty amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 So what. Just watching them play, it's obvious that one guy has complete mastery of his offense, and that the other guy struggles with aspects of his and hasn't shown significant improvement. 3rd and 3 is always a rollercoaster. Rogers Hail Marys are more accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Takes a special kind of stupid to say Bills had an average defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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