Don't understand all the fuss about Whaley and Pegs

[RyanC883]

Maybe we've been around the Patriots for too long? But it seems to work for them, and they give you zip.

 

Doug gives "partial zip." Need to give "total zip." It would be nice if the media were more fixated on questions like: "what qualities do you want in the next coach," "who are you consulting, if anyone, in your search." "what positions need to be solidified the most in FA and the draft." Likely to get evasive answers for competitive reaosns, but sometimes get something good.

[NewEra]

1). Watched it in its entirety: It was cringeworthy

 

2). Nope I cited it as an on-field indication of a team in disarray and my personal low-point of the season ending. Your making a straw man out of an added-on detail and going to town on it. Was not my entire point at all but go ahead and bash it as it's the bulk of your point.

 

3). Ok I don't know if Whaley was lying, but the majority of people find his recount fantastically unbelievable. And it does matter when your front office mishandling of matters is aired out in front of the country. It only re-enforces any negative view of the Bills organization in the national eye to fans and even prospective players/coaches.

 

Nobody denies that Pegs wanted Rex etc. Solid football organizations do not handle their business like this. The Bills always seem to handle their business like this.

 

Thanks for your expanding on the business world, I am in it every day. But please, take the high ground for yourself and preach.

 

The rest of your post is bashing people's reaction. You have your opinion and others do not share it. You're telling them it's dumb, wrong, extreme etc. Some of us think it's all those things and more to blame the media and fellow fans for the gaffes of OBD.

 

I mentioned this in another post, I live in the NYC market....you should see what the media does to professional teams and players when there are firings with odd circumstances and behavior, when front offices implode, GM's look silly....like sharks to blood. WFAN has to fill the air for 24 hours and man do they pounce on things like this. See the last 2 years of Rex with the Jets - circus...the media was relentless for months

 

I commend your painting all of this as a good thing, those are some awesome rose colored lenses. I just don't see a prime coaching candidate looking at his prospective management and becoming more excited based on the last few weeks of OBD activity.

 

No no...there's a lot there buddy. I just don't have the time tonight. Since you're gloating already, I will make time for you tomorrow.

 

I actually find it comical though that my not responding to you yet somehow makes the bills less of a sh-tshow.

If there's one thing I know, it's that there is nothing you can or will ever say that will prove they are dysfunctional. You don't know anything about what goes on behind closed doors. You know what the trash the media spews. Oh yeah, I forgot, Gillislee didn't know he had to pick up the kickoff. They're definitely dysfunctional. Can't wait to hear the facts behind why the FO is so dusfuncional Edited January 5, 2017 by NewEra

[RyanC883]

Press conference was the most smug Whaley i've seen in a while, media hates him because he doesn't care about giving them stories. If you don't believe me, just look at Graham and Rodaks twitter over the past few days

 

I love it. The media loves to blast people who don't give them stories.

[Dan]

EXACTLY! I can not believe the non sense going on around here about the Press Conference...I don't even think many even watched it, they just ran with what ever BS theory or story they had in their head based on their biased hatred of him. Thats the only explanation because literally NOTHING that is being whined about actually occurred in the Press Conference. I thought Whaley did a great job actually.

 

I agree. I don't think a lot of people have listened to it. Why do I keep reading about Brandon? He wasn't there. The only mention of him was Whaley saying he has other responsibilities and isn't involved. Yet, somehow, Russ' name keeps getting thrown about like he was there. People are just projecting past criticisms onto the current situation. That's all.

 

If anything I feel more positive, because he said very plainly that Russ is not involved in any way. I mean isn't that what we've all been wanting for years?

 

The press exaggerated and much of the public ate it up and blew it completely out of proportion.

 

However, we can't claim that Whaley did a "great job". In fact, he did an awful job.

 

Whaley's problem is that he goes into each press conference as if the media is the enemy and he's there to be interrogated and to keep everything close to the vest. He looks like he's ready for a fight and answers like he's a defendant on the stand answering questions from the prosecutor.

 

But that's not so much on him as it is Russ Brandon, Scott Berchtold and the Pegulas. I feel like that hatred/awkwardness with the media has been going on for way too long now. I was hoping that the Pegulas would put a stop to it but they haven't. This obsession with controlling the narrative and making sure no information that might lead to proven accountability of mistakes is not working. In fact, it's blowing up in their faces. They have to change how they conduct PR.

 

You can blame the Buffalo News all you want but they're not going to change. The media is the same everywhere. So you can either keep fighting it and look like dysfunctional incompetents...or you can play the game and just open up and let them in.

 

Why does Whaley have to blatantly lie about never giving Pegula any input about Rex? Everyone knew it was BS to the point of absurdity. Other parts of the PC he acts unnecessarily cagey and answers questions in a passive aggressive manner.

 

Why was Rex fired? - "Ownership issued a statement."

"I wasn't privy to that information."

What was your role in Rex's hiring? - "I will not get into that." (deflects blame)

"Again, I was not privy to that conversation."

"I understand the narrative out there, Anthony and I have talked and we're fine"

"We are fine."

"The ownership put out a statement."

"I will have to disagree with you on that."

"Can I answer?"

"There was going to be a narrative no matter what we had done that day."

"That painted us in any picture you guys wanted to paint us."

"They put out a statement. You have it."

"Well that is the way you think."

"You can write how you want."

You didn't know that Rex might get fired? - "No." (throws owner under the bus)

"I had no reason to talk to them about Rex, we were focused on the season." (what?!)

Did you agree with the decision to fire Rex? - "I haven't even thought about it."

 

This team needs to come to the realization that going to war with the local media is not a war they will win. It's better business to stop being so guarded and mysterious and just be more open and tell it like it is.

I disagree. Whaley did a great job. Many people think he didn't because he gave a lot of BS answers. But that was almost certainly his intent. I do alot of press events. And for the big ones, you always have a PR person give you your "talking points". These are the answers they want you to give, and tell you at every opportunity...go back to it. That's what you say. And then sit and wait for another question. Then give the same answer. Repeat until someone tells you that to leave.

 

The answers I bolded are almost certainly PR-provided responses that he continually came back to. There are a few others he had as well. But, I guarantee he was given these answers and probably even rehearsed types of questions and when to use them. Does it give the press the answers they want... No. Does it give the public the answers they want... No. But, it gets him out of there without doing any addtional damage... Usually. And its how all big organizations typically handle press conferences, especially likely combative ones.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Dan

[End The Drought]

The media couldn't get a story out of the press conference so they have to resort to bashing the franchise. Shows a real lack of intelligence and skill in their craft by the Buffalo media

[BobDVA]

 

Exactly...all this garbage being spewed around here is ridiculous. People over analyzing the press conferences is stupid. Rex told the owner if you are going to go in a different direction then lets do it now...and so they did. Pretty simple really.

 

Funny a lot of people complaining were the same people praising the Cowboys FO which is full of ownership meddling.

 

Bottom line is simple. Rex is out. Whaley has been given the power to pick the next HC himself. He isn't just going to give the reigns to Lynn by default as his future is also tied to this choice and is going to do all the due diligence he needs to in order to make what he feels is the best choice for this team.

 

All the other stuff is just media hoopla. Of the 6 positions open, we are the 2nd best one available behind only Denver. SF and Jax are a mess, Rams are stuck with a QB most people are split on in Goff and a terrible OL and lack of talent at WR, and SD best talent is at the tail end of their careers in Gates and Rivers. Denver and the Bills are the two teams that can compete right out the gate.

I like what you say here!

[timtebow15]

I think there's a lot here for both sides. Those arguing the Bills Front Office is not dysfunctional have a lot of history working against them. There have been a lot of odd things going on and the team is mired in mediocrity. It could be worse...it would be nice to have a team like Green Bay to root for that don't make you want to hit your head against the wall so often. The media overblows some things. For example, the organizational chart doesn't have to look a certain way but the way in which decisions are made should be productive. Leaks at high levels, seemingly passive-aggressive behavior, lack of trust and power struggles appear to be part of the Bills issues and certainly give the media lots to write about.

[Cripple Creek]

Press conference was the most smug Whaley i've seen in a while, media hates him because he doesn't care about giving them stories. If you don't believe me, just look at Graham and Rodaks twitter over the past few days

Does it bother you, in the slightest, that Odell Beckham jr. handled media questions better than Whaley did this week?

[NewEra]

Still waiting

[Meathead]

i wish you guys had the 'thanks' or 'kudos' or whatever feature. most of the posts in here would get them from me

 

what is it going to take for most of us to realize we have entered the golden age of clicks in our media? truth is irrelevant, its salaciousness that completely rules the day. we have it all over our politics now, doesnt matter how bald faced the lie is, just say it and half the ppl will believe it to their deaths

 

its sickening. at least with something like sports it doesnt matter. but its certainly not limited to that. ppl are literally dying on a routine basis bc our media enterprizes cant even bother to try to tell the truth on anything

[Fixxxer]

i wish you guys had the 'thanks' or 'kudos' or whatever feature. most of the posts in here would get them from me

 

what is it going to take for most of us to realize we have entered the golden age of clicks in our media? truth is irrelevant, its salaciousness that completely rules the day. we have it all over our politics now, doesnt matter how bald faced the lie is, just say it and half the ppl will believe it to their deaths

 

its sickening. at least with something like sports it doesnt matter. but its certainly not limited to that. ppl are literally dying on a routine basis bc our media enterprizes cant even bother to try to tell the truth on anything

 

where have you been brother?

[Wayne Arnold]

I disagree. Whaley did a great job. Many people think he didn't because he gave a lot of BS answers. But that was almost certainly his intent. I do alot of press events. And for the big ones, you always have a PR person give you your "talking points". These are the answers they want you to give, and tell you at every opportunity...go back to it. That's what you say. And then sit and wait for another question. Then give the same answer. Repeat until someone tells you that to leave.

 

The answers I bolded are almost certainly PR-provided responses that he continually came back to. There are a few others he had as well. But, I guarantee he was given these answers and probably even rehearsed types of questions and when to use them. Does it give the press the answers they want... No. Does it give the public the answers they want... No. But, it gets him out of there without doing any addtional damage... Usually. And its how all big organizations typically handle press conferences, especially likely combative ones.

 

This contradiction just blew up right in your face.

 

You can't say Whaley did a great job by using scripted answers designed to get through a press conference without doing any damage as your example when Whaley's scripted answers set off a dumpster fire as big as anything we've seen in recent years!

Edited January 6, 2017 by Wayne Arnold

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Does it bother you, in the slightest, that Odell Beckham jr. handled media questions better than Whaley did this week?

 

I'd kind of have to see OBJ being asked analogous questions in an analogous style to have an opinion on that point

 

This contradiction just blew up right in your face.

 

You can't say Whaley did a great job by using scripted answers designed to get through a press conference without doing any damage as your example when Whaley's scripted answers set off a dumpster fire as big as anything we've seen in recent years!

 

I kind of picture it as a wolf pack attacking a caribou. Bad outcome for the caribou. Bad outcome for the wolves only if they're trying to sell themselves as gentlemen professionals, if they wanna be wolves they're good.

[Wayne Arnold]

 

I kind of picture it as a wolf pack attacking a caribou. Bad outcome for the caribou. Bad outcome for the wolves only if they're trying to sell themselves as gentlemen professionals, if they wanna be wolves they're good.

 

So you're saying Whaley wants to be perceived as incompetent, unaccountable, powerless and insecure?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

So you're saying Whaley wants to be perceived as incompetent, unaccountable, powerless and insecure?

 

Do you think the chosen caribou wants to be perceived as prey? I think you're misunderstanding me.

[major]

Whaley and Pegs should tailgate with us this year. We might like them better if they throw themselves into a bus, a fire, or table

[bklnpete]

What a joke! No, seriously, I thought this whole thread was a a goof, an ironic take on some poor fools who would actually defend One Bills Drive and blame "The Media" for all the problems surrounding the Bills.

 

Yeah, it's Jerry Sullivan and Tim Graham's fault the Bills are approaching two decades of futility. Gimme a break

 

All these "media" bashers are the same ones who who'll go weak in the knees when the next con-man rides into town promising to 'Make Buffalo Great Again."

 

Yeah, those elitist media types have lost touch with the regular guy...better to listen to the millionaires and their cronies.

 

Sounds familiar.

[yungmack]

What a joke! No, seriously, I thought this whole thread was a a goof, an ironic take on some poor fools who would actually defend One Bills Drive and blame "The Media" for all the problems surrounding the Bills.

 

Yeah, it's Jerry Sullivan and Tim Graham's fault the Bills are approaching two decades of futility. Gimme a break

 

All these "media" bashers are the same ones who who'll go weak in the knees when the next con-man rides into town promising to 'Make Buffalo Great Again."

 

Yeah, those elitist media types have lost touch with the regular guy...better to listen to the millionaires and their cronies.

 

Sounds familiar.

Now, now, Mrs. Sullivan, rein it in.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yeah, those elitist media types have lost touch with the regular guy...better to listen to the millionaires and their cronies.

 

 

I think they have, actually.

 

I think they're so caught up in trying to compete with the immediacy of social media (reporters who tweet, without needing to vet sources) and "clickbait" online articles, that they've lost touch with the tastes of the audience that actually pays for media by purchasing papers and listening to radio shows.

 

Maybe that audience actually does have an appetite for a balanced, well written article, would like information about a variety of topics, and doesn't enjoy the spectacle of a group of reporters who lack background on organizational structure, ask rude questions like "what exactly do you do", and make statements about decisions instead of asking questions.

 

It is possible to pursue a "hot" topic and even interview someone who is deceptive or at best not forthcoming, without descending to this.

[bbb]

i wish you guys had the 'thanks' or 'kudos' or whatever feature. most of the posts in here would get them from me

 

what is it going to take for most of us to realize we have entered the golden age of clicks in our media? truth is irrelevant, its salaciousness that completely rules the day. we have it all over our politics now, doesnt matter how bald faced the lie is, just say it and half the ppl will believe it to their deaths

 

its sickening. at least with something like sports it doesnt matter. but its certainly not limited to that. ppl are literally dying on a routine basis bc our media enterprizes cant even bother to try to tell the truth on anything

 

Definitely kudos to this. Especially that last paragraph. These asshats are at least fun and games. The important media has blood on their hands.

 

[Dan]

This contradiction just blew up right in your face.

 

You can't say Whaley did a great job by using scripted answers designed to get through a press conference without doing any damage as your example when Whaley's scripted answers set off a dumpster fire as big as anything we've seen in recent years!

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually.

 

Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward.

 

But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on.

 

I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

[Fan in Chicago]

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually.

 

Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward.

 

But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on.

 

I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

 

Excellent post.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually.

 

Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward.

 

But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on.

 

I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

 

If Whaley's presser was scripted by the PR department, then the scriptwriter needs to be fired because it was bad, and it would still be bad if the press corps as a whole had behaved in a more professional fashion.

 

While the reporters are sh**s for acting like it's news Rex reported to Pegula, not Whaley, and that Pegula was the only person with firing authority over Rex, the way Whaley responded to follow up questions made him look dumb or powerless. He may have responded with the literal truth - that he didn't know Pegula was about to fire Rex (that week), that he and Pegula may never have discussed firing Rex (because he expected to discuss it in a week, at the end of the season), that he wasn't specifically told why Pegula fired Rex and didn't ask or think about it (at the time of the call). But the literal truth made him look out of the loop with ownership, peon-like, or dishonest.

 

There's no way around it: for a non-football owner to fire the coach who reports to him without consulting the GM beforehand and telling him why, makes the GM look weak and low in the owner's regard. I think that's not the case at all. I think the reason Pegula didn't consult Whaley or explain is that Pegula has had plenty of input from Whaley into Rex's coaching and the team's performance through weekly Monday calls and real-time reactions during the game (whether this constitutes "throwing the coach under the bus" or open and candid two-way feedback about performance with Pegula receiving the same about Whaley from Rex, one really can't know without being in the room). Whaley didn't ask Pegula "why?", if we take him at his word, because he most likely already knew how Pegula felt; the timing, not the firing, was a surprise. Pegula didn't ask Whaley "should I?" because he felt he already had enough input to know Whaley's take. It may be true that no actual decision had been made or communicated and no actual discussion "should we fire the coach" took place. But to issue that script without caveats or explanations, as Whaley did, strains everyone's belief.

 

Bottom line, if Whaley followed a script (which he probably did, question is who wrote it - did he, or did a PR guy?) the script made Pegula look meddling and/or inappropriately incommunicative to his football subordinates and made Whaley look out of the loop, relatively powerless, and/or dishonest. All of those choices are dysfunctional, and most are probably not true (Whaley IS relatively powerless for an NFL GM, but that's not at all unique). Relatively small changes to the script could have influenced that look - for example, if Whaley acknowledged while he may not have known Rex was in imminent danger of being fired, he did know Pegula was seriously unhappy with the football team's performance and the coaching through weekly calls and game-time reactions.

 

All this said, I'm not absolving the press for their behavior during that press conference. There were many fair questions, asked politely, but there were also rude questions, a real or pretend lack of knowledge about publicly-disclosed Bills org structure, and statements (based on leaks, but assumed as true) in place of questions. Whaley (unintentionally, I assume) made himself look like prey, the lame caribou at the back of the herd. The reporters didn't have to embrace the wolf-pack look in response.

 

The result of all this is, the Pegulas basically HAVE to be in the room for all the coaching interviews now, because any candidate worth his salt is going to want to hear directly from them their thoughts on the power structure and lines of communication and he's going to want that info pretty much up front.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[eliteqb]

Unfortunately, there is a dumpster fire and its at The Buffalo News and their mud slinging sports journalists. What a bunch of crybabies they are. They have an agenda and its not pro Bills.

[Dan]

If Whaley's presser was scripted by the PR department, then the scriptwriter needs to be fired because it was bad, and it would still be bad if the press corps as a whole had behaved in a more professional fashion.

 

While the reporters are sh**s for acting like it's news Rex reported to Pegula, not Whaley, and that Pegula was the only person with firing authority over Rex, the way Whaley responded to follow up questions made him look dumb or powerless. He may have responded with the literal truth - that he didn't know Pegula was about to fire Rex (that week), that he and Pegula may never have discussed firing Rex (because he expected to discuss it in a week, at the end of the season), that he wasn't specifically told why Pegula fired Rex and didn't ask or think about it (at the time of the call). But the literal truth made him look out of the loop with ownership, peon-like, or dishonest.

 

There's no way around it: for a non-football owner to fire the coach who reports to him without consulting the GM beforehand and telling him why, makes the GM look weak and low in the owner's regard. I think that's not the case at all. I think the reason Pegula didn't consult Whaley or explain is that Pegula has had plenty of input from Whaley into Rex's coaching and the team's performance through weekly Monday calls and real-time reactions during the game (whether this constitutes "throwing the coach under the bus" or open and candid two-way feedback about performance with Pegula receiving the same about Whaley from Rex, one really can't know without being in the room). Whaley didn't ask Pegula "why?", if we take him at his word, because he most likely already knew how Pegula felt; the timing, not the firing, was a surprise. Pegula didn't ask Whaley "should I?" because he felt he already had enough input to know Whaley's take. It may be true that no actual decision had been made or communicated and no actual discussion "should we fire the coach" took place. But to issue that script without caveats or explanations, as Whaley did, strains everyone's belief.

 

Bottom line, if Whaley followed a script (which he probably did, question is who wrote it - did he, or did a PR guy?) the script made Pegula look meddling and/or inappropriately incommunicative to his football subordinates and made Whaley look out of the loop, relatively powerless, and/or dishonest. All of those choices are dysfunctional, and most are probably not true (Whaley IS relatively powerless for an NFL GM, but that's not at all unique). Relatively small changes to the script could have influenced that look - for example, if Whaley acknowledged while he may not have known Rex was in imminent danger of being fired, he did know Pegula was seriously unhappy with the football team's performance and the coaching through weekly calls and game-time reactions.

 

All this said, I'm not absolving the press for their behavior during that press conference. There were many fair questions, asked politely, but there were also rude questions, a real or pretend lack of knowledge about publicly-disclosed Bills org structure, and statements (based on leaks, but assumed as true) in place of questions. Whaley (unintentionally, I assume) made himself look like prey, the lame caribou at the back of the herd. The reporters didn't have to embrace the wolf-pack look in response.

 

The result of all this is, the Pegulas basically HAVE to be in the room for all the coaching interviews now, because any candidate worth his salt is going to want to hear directly from them their thoughts on the power structure and lines of communication and he's going to want that info pretty much up front.

I don't diagree with most of what you've said. The person(s) prepping Whaley didn't do a good job. As an organization, they all under estimated the degree to which the press and public were going to jump on this firing. I think they started to realize that and had to have the owners actually come out and respond. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn in a month that there's new PR people in place within the organization.

 

With all that, though, I still just don't see how this all makes Whaley look so diminutive. In the interview, it would be extremely easy to say... That is how our organizational structure was; because of A, B, C. This is how it will be going forward. And you have team Pegs there to say, yep that's right. End of discussion as far as the HC candidate is concerned. Of course, the media will ask the new guy all sorts of questions about who he reports to and if there's any issues with the owner and they probably won't like his canned answers either... But we can all argue over that in another month

[TheFunPolice]

Maybe Pegula is just letting Whaley hang out for the 3-13 season that is to come if they have no QB and let some guys walk. Then next year he will have a top 3 pick and can go get someone he really wants as GM.

 

He did something similar with Darcy. Darcy was dead man walking here for what seemed like forever, while Pegula was planning his replacement.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I don't diagree with most of what you've said. The person(s) prepping Whaley didn't do a good job. As an organization, they all under estimated the degree to which the press and public were going to jump on this firing. I think they started to realize that and had to have the owners actually come out and respond. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn in a month that there's new PR people in place within the organization.

 

With all that, though, I still just don't see how this all makes Whaley look so diminutive. In the interview, it would be extremely easy to say... That is how our organizational structure was; because of A, B, C. This is how it will be going forward. And you have team Pegs there to say, yep that's right. End of discussion as far as the HC candidate is concerned. Of course, the media will ask the new guy all sorts of questions about who he reports to and if there's any issues with the owner and they probably won't like his canned answers either... But we can all argue over that in another month

 

You don't see that if you're the GM and running the football operations, even if the HC reports in parallel to you to the owner, stating that you had no prior knowledge of major football decision (firing the HC) makes it look as though your input was not sought, and stating that you didn't ask why, you just took your marching orders and marched, makes you look like a peon, working for an owner who expects that behavior instead of expecting understanding and buy-in?

 

I don't disagree that it's a situation that can be managed through the interview process, but managing it requires the Pegulas to be in the room, because Whaley made it clear he doesn't stop the buck. And it may put some HC candidates off. I once interviewed for a position where it became clear that many decisions were made, not by the guy who would be my boss or by my bosses' boss, but 2 levels up, and that my boss had regularly bypassed his boss to make his case directly two levels up on several occasions (these weren't huge decisions, but decisions that would have been made at a lower level in many organizations). It was an interesting job, but I decided the lines of decision-making authority were too muddled for me to be comfortable, so I passed.

Maybe Pegula is just letting Whaley hang out for the 3-13 season that is to come if they have no QB and let some guys walk. Then next year he will have a top 3 pick and can go get someone he really wants as GM.

 

He did something similar with Darcy. Darcy was dead man walking here for what seemed like forever, while Pegula was planning his replacement.

 

That might be so, but if it is, Pegula should learn from experience and would be much better served to just get rid of Whaley and get on with the double replacement. Cutting Taylor without a replacement online would be sufficient to tank, as would potential retirements or loss of a few key replacements on the other side of the ball who might not be happy at things being blown up, and it would give the new guys a chance to thoroughly evaluate who's left and a year to have their scouts build their draft board instead of doing it in a scramble next January.

 

Despite the relative lack of national media furor, it really isn't a good look for the 49ers to fire 2 HC and now the GM in a year.

[Dan]

You don't see that if you're the GM and running the football operations, even if the HC reports in parallel to you to the owner, stating that you had no prior knowledge of major football decision (firing the HC) makes it look as though your input was not sought, and stating that you didn't ask why, you just took your marching orders and marched, makes you look like a peon, working for an owner who expects that behavior instead of expecting understanding and buy-in?

 

I don't disagree that it's a situation that can be managed through the interview process, but managing it requires the Pegulas to be in the room, because Whaley made it clear he doesn't stop the buck. And it may put some HC candidates off. I once interviewed for a position where it became clear that many decisions were made, not by the guy who would be my boss or by my bosses' boss, but 2 levels up, and that my boss had regularly bypassed his boss to make his case directly two levels up on several occasions (these weren't huge decisions, but decisions that would have been made at a lower level in many organizations). It was an interesting job, but I decided the lines of decision-making authority were too muddled for me to be comfortable, so I passed.

 

That might be so, but if it is, Pegula should learn from experience and would be much better served to just get rid of Whaley and get on with the double replacement. Cutting Taylor without a replacement online would be sufficient to tank, as would potential retirements or loss of a few key replacements on the other side of the ball who might not be happy at things being blown up, and it would give the new guys a chance to thoroughly evaluate who's left and a year to have their scouts build their draft board instead of doing it in a scramble next January.

 

Despite the relative lack of national media furor, it really isn't a good look for the 49ers to fire 2 HC and now the GM in a year.

Did he report in parallel to Whaley and the owner? Honestly, I don't know. Nor do I think it matters in the end. If one of the people under me, went and talked directly to the owner of the company ans walked out of that meeting fired, I don't see it as a reflection on me. And even if I did talk to my boss and find out why he fired them, I wouldn't tell anyone else. Its none of their business. Maybe I'd have a better line than Whaley used. But either way... To focus on the what they did or didn't know, when they knew it, whatever... Is all sideshow blather. I totally agree with Whaley... Let's focus on finding a new HC and winning.

 

People can say the press doesn't impact the decisions or the process, but they do. Like I said, I deal with the press and public opinion all the time. And when you have to spend the majority of your time and energy answering periphery questions and accustations and trying to refute completely made up claims... All because a realtively small number of people are shouting at you. It does affect your work, what you're doing, and how successful you can be. This is all a distraction. That's all it is. And if a HC candidate buys into this distraction, then I wouldn't want to hire him any way.

[Tenhigh]

 

If Whaley's presser was scripted by the PR department, then the scriptwriter needs to be fired because it was bad, and it would still be bad if the press corps as a whole had behaved in a more professional fashion.

 

While the reporters are sh**s for acting like it's news Rex reported to Pegula, not Whaley, and that Pegula was the only person with firing authority over Rex, the way Whaley responded to follow up questions made him look dumb or powerless. He may have responded with the literal truth - that he didn't know Pegula was about to fire Rex (that week), that he and Pegula may never have discussed firing Rex (because he expected to discuss it in a week, at the end of the season), that he wasn't specifically told why Pegula fired Rex and didn't ask or think about it (at the time of the call). But the literal truth made him look out of the loop with ownership, peon-like, or dishonest.

For me its the parts in parentheses above that are the key to this whole thing. People that are too lazy to infer them are "outraged by the tire fire". Those that did infer them are not. Its that simple imho.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Tenhigh

[Wayne Arnold]

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually.

 

Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward.

 

But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on.

 

I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

 

I agree with you that the "dysfunction" reports are overblown and a result of emotionally-charged rants from the frustrated Buffalo News sports reporters.

 

However, that doesn't mean Whaley did a "great job." Far from it. You don't want to use those "say nothing answers" when all they do is ignite flames. "Ownership issued a statement." "I wasn't privy to that information." Those answers may have seemed like "say nothing answers" to Whaley and the Bills before the press conference, but they were far from that. They helped build a perception of incompetence.

 

And that's not even mentioning Whaley's passive aggressive "media narrative" takes.

[bklnpete]

Whaley in his presser on Tyrod decison:

 

"You got to understand it’s going to be a decision by myself and ownership along with the new head coach, so we have to finalize that part of the script before we can write the end of it," Whaley said. "So it’s going to be part of the evaluation process along with everybody else on the team. Our new coaching staff’s going to come in and evaluate every single player on this roster."

 

TBN just a couple hours ago:

 

"Buffalo is instead planning to move on from Taylor, despite the fact that their scoring has increased dramatically since he arrived," Schefter wrote on ESPN.com.

The Bills would also be doing this despite Whaley saying on Monday the Bills wouldn't make a decision on Taylor's future without the input of their new coach.

Damn Buffalo media...always focusing on the negative! They have a vendetta against One Bills Drive!

[Meathead]

 

where have you been brother?

 

like i said, just spending time elsewhere. ive been lurking all this time, i really like the convos here and especially the sense of humor you guys have

 

ive moved on from the other places so i should be here more often now

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually.

 

Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward.

 

But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on.

 

I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

 

excellent

 

this is what i said before terry gave that last short interview:

 

if you filter out all the cloak and dagger bullcrap it doesnt seem all that hard to figure out what really happened

 

the pegulas came in and immediately had to hire a head coach. they interviewed a bunch of candidates and when they got to rex the pegulas became infatuated. against the advice of whaley they decided to go with kim's 'gut feel'

 

two years later they realize their mistake and set to correct it. whaley cant say much bc hes in a no win situation - if he says he didnt want rex he makes his bosses look bad, and if he says it was his call then hes setting him and his bosses up to be called liars if/when the truth comes out. so he basically just tries to keep his head down, reveal minimal details, and hope to get through it without worsening an already ticklish situation. hence his totally sheepish look through this whole thing

 

having made the mistake themselves, the pegulas tell whaley they will take care of rex and they dont want doug falling on his sword for them. this is why doug isnt involved in the discussions with rex recently and since he doesnt know exactly whats going on he doesnt want to speculate or risk mucking things up worse. they plan to wait until after the season but rex gets pissed after they overrule him on starting tyrod, so rex asks to speak privately to terry to ask am i or am i not the coach? terry says hes grown uncomfortable with the direction the team is heading and rex says well you might as well do it now, so he does

 

no dysfunction, no fued between the hc and gm, no russ brandon manipulating an altzheimers suffering terry. just a new owner making a mistake and them trying to fix the natural fallout that results

[ndirish1978]

Whaley in his presser on Tyrod decison:

 

"You got to understand it’s going to be a decision by myself and ownership along with the new head coach, so we have to finalize that part of the script before we can write the end of it," Whaley said. "So it’s going to be part of the evaluation process along with everybody else on the team. Our new coaching staff’s going to come in and evaluate every single player on this roster."

 

TBN just a couple hours ago:

 

"Buffalo is instead planning to move on from Taylor, despite the fact that their scoring has increased dramatically since he arrived," Schefter wrote on ESPN.com.

The Bills would also be doing this despite Whaley saying on Monday the Bills wouldn't make a decision on Taylor's future without the input of their new coach.

Damn Buffalo media...always focusing on the negative! They have a vendetta against One Bills Drive!

 

Have we cut TT and I didn't notice?

[Fixxxer]

 

like i said, just spending time elsewhere. ive been lurking all this time, i really like the convos here and especially the sense of humor you guys have

 

ive moved on from the other places so i should be here more often now

 

 

Good to hear.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Did he report in parallel to Whaley and the owner? Honestly, I don't know. Nor do I think it matters in the end. If one of the people under me, went and talked directly to the owner of the company ans walked out of that meeting fired, I don't see it as a reflection on me. And even if I did talk to my boss and find out why he fired them, I wouldn't tell anyone else. Its none of their business. Maybe I'd have a better line than Whaley used. But either way... To focus on the what they did or didn't know, when they knew it, whatever... Is all sideshow blather. I totally agree with Whaley... Let's focus on finding a new HC and winning.

 

People can say the press doesn't impact the decisions or the process, but they do. Like I said, I deal with the press and public opinion all the time. And when you have to spend the majority of your time and energy answering periphery questions and accustations and trying to refute completely made up claims... All because a realtively small number of people are shouting at you. It does affect your work, what you're doing, and how successful you can be. This is all a distraction. That's all it is. And if a HC candidate buys into this distraction, then I wouldn't want to hire him any way.

 

Dan: yes, Rex both reported to Pegula, as do Whaley and Rex Brandon (all three nominally same level, though Brandon has clearly been given more hats and responsibilities). I can't quarrel with the "wouldn't tell anyone else, it's non of their business", and I agree it's largely sideshow blather and a distraction/energy drain.

 

The part where rubber hits road for a HC coming in is, they want to know what will be their reporting structure, how the lines of authority run, how disagreements are handled and resolved, and so forth. If I were a HC candidate for one of 32 jobs in the world, it certainly wouldn't stop me from coming in and talking to folks, but it would raise a flag and cause me to question and listen more carefully, and sometimes when a candidate is in that "raised flag" mindset, they spook more easily. That's my point, really.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Dan: yes, Rex both reported to Pegula, as do Whaley and Rex Brandon (all three nominally same level, though Brandon has clearly been given more hats and responsibilities). I can't quarrel with the "wouldn't tell anyone else, it's non of their business", and I agree it's largely sideshow blather and a distraction/energy drain.

 

The part where rubber hits road for a HC coming in is, they want to know what will be their reporting structure, how the lines of authority run, how disagreements are handled and resolved, and so forth. If I were a HC candidate for one of 32 jobs in the world, it certainly wouldn't stop me from coming in and talking to folks, but it would raise a flag and cause me to question and listen more carefully, and sometimes when a candidate is in that "raised flag" mindset, they spook more easily. That's my point, really.

So if Whaley says you answer to him, does the rest matter?

Whaley in his presser on Tyrod decison:

 

"You got to understand it’s going to be a decision by myself and ownership along with the new head coach, so we have to finalize that part of the script before we can write the end of it," Whaley said. "So it’s going to be part of the evaluation process along with everybody else on the team. Our new coaching staff’s going to come in and evaluate every single player on this roster."

 

TBN just a couple hours ago:

 

"Buffalo is instead planning to move on from Taylor, despite the fact that their scoring has increased dramatically since he arrived," Schefter wrote on ESPN.com.

The Bills would also be doing this despite Whaley saying on Monday the Bills wouldn't make a decision on Taylor's future without the input of their new coach.

Damn Buffalo media...always focusing on the negative! They have a vendetta against One Bills Drive!

 

The Buffalo News gives more credence to a reporter citing an unnamed source than the team's general manager. They should just come right out and say Doug Whaley is a liar, because that is what they are dancing around. The team doesn't have to decide anything until March 11. They are certainly not going to decide anything without a head coach in place. But the unnamed source trumps all that, doesn't it? For all we know that source is Rex Ryan.

Edited January 7, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[What a Tuel]

So if Whaley says you answer to him, does the rest matter?

 

The Buffalo News gives more credence to a reporter citing an unnamed source than the team's general manager. They should just come right out and say Doug Whaley is a liar, because that is what they are dancing around. The team doesn't have to decide anything until March 11. They are certainly not going to decide anything without a head coach in place. But the unnamed source trumps all that, doesn't it? For all we know that source is Rex Ryan.

 

Not to mention, they will just as likely go the other direction if we pick up the option with stories like "Are the Bills making another ridiculous investment?" and "Is Tyrod Taylor really a franchise QB like the Bills think they are?"

[CardinalScotts]

a lot to do about nothing, WAY overblown- TBN was so caught up in the Rex Ryan exit they never discussed anything on 2017 including Tyrod Taylor. That group is brutal Jerry, Vic, Nick, Jay and King Idiot Bucky. Tyler Dunne is somebody who knows how to cover a team as a professional- not afraid to be critical but also has the working knowledge of the game to work with. The forgetful five are in basic terms "football stupid" so they rarely write about the games and why this or that happens they are more interested in the drama off the field. When the access was cut back and they freaked out TBN never got over it to this day has an axe to grind and Pegula refuses to admit he needs them essentially working around them. We deserve better as a fan base- but with twitter accounts from cover 1 and rob quinn and especially Chris Trapaso and others we get it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by CardinalScotts

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Have we cut TT and I didn't notice?

 

Yes apparently we have already let Taylor walk and already hired Anthony Lynn a week ago and the coaching "search" was fake.

 

I'm informed because I read the Buffalo News.

[BobbyC81]

Rex reported directly to the owner. Whaley was not in full command of the organization. Is this really any different than in many places in some for or another? Do people really think the GM just sits back and signs and drafts whatever players he feels like without the input of the HC? How many owners just sit back and let the GM pick the HC without final say?

Organizations almost never have a purely vertical structure any more. They are blends of horizontal and vertical reporting often with dyads forming a team for decision making. There are few if any decisions that can and should be made by one person.

The Bills are far from dysfunctional when in comes to organizational structure. The media is just using an antiquated lens to look at the organization. You can argue/debate that the people in the organization may not be qualified to make these decisions but there is nothing wrong with have a GM/HC dyad structure of management. There really are very few decisions from player personnel, the draft, free agency, or final roster make-up that can't be made by consensus.

All this media huff will blow over. This is more about them living in the past than it is about the Bills.

Take Polian for instance. He had all the power in Indianapolis and year after year he let the talent get worse propped up only by Peyton Manning. He should be the last guy telling people how to run a modern organization.

 

Great post! I watched the Niners' owner press conference after he fired the GM & coach. He said he wants 2 guys (coach & GM) to work together and doesn't care what the org structure is. He hinted that they had a GM doing one thing and head coach wanting something else. Apparently Harbaugh and the GM didn't get along and the owner sided with the GM. Now that it happened again, he canned the GM even before canning Kelly as coach.

 

This is what the Bills should do. Having a Yes man as GM and him expecting to have a Yes man as head coach will not provide the Bills with the best head coaching candidates, as many of you have mentioned.