Gilmore Thread

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

We made a mistake with signing Dareus to a large deal and will do so again with Gilmore as Rex needed some these elite players for his defense, offense will suffer as seems like 75 per cent of cap goes to defense.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

AW was every bit the player here. He was one of the best CBs I ever saw and the very best tackler of any player that ever played on the Bills. He didn't get a lot of INTs but he was incredible against the run and the pass. A lot of people thought Clements was better because he would get a turnover now and then but he got burnt a lot and AW rarely got beat. He was exactly the player on the Vikes he was here, which was quietly great.

Totally agree. Definitely one of my absolute favorite post-Super Bowl Bills.

 

Letting him get away felt terrible to me at the time and continued to all through his excellent years with the Vikes, though I was glad to see him doing well.

 

Watching him tackle (at all of 5'9") was pure football pleasure. He took everybody down cold, no matter how big they were. No clinging/dragging/hoping from that little dude. He was a baller.

 

If he had ball skills, he would have been a Hall of Famer, IMO.

[bmur66]

I actually saw him tackle someone yesterday. I guess he figured if he didn't tackle a QB he wouldn't hear the end of it.

[26CornerBlitz]

We made a mistake with signing Dareus to a large deal and will do so again with Gilmore as Rex needed some these elite players for his defense, offense will suffer as seems like 75 per cent of cap goes to defense.

 

Shady and Glenn are laughing at you.

[Blokestradamus]

Anyone mentioning Darby getting toasted by Torrey Smith? Thought not.

 

I look forward to 2018 when you talk yourself out of re-signing him as well

Edited October 17, 2016 by Blokestradamus

[Maury Ballstein]

We made a mistake with signing Dareus to a large deal and will do so again with Gilmore as Rex needed some these elite players for his defense, offense will suffer as seems like 75 per cent of cap goes to defense.

You mean you want to apologize to Whaley for all of your rants ?

[thebandit27]

Anyone mentioning Darby getting toasted by Torrey Smith? Thought not.

 

I look forward to 2018 when you talk yourself out of re-signing him as well

It's truly incredible, isn't it?

 

We don't bat an eyelash when a journeyman like Brandon LaFell abuses a pro bowler like Malcolm Butler in the red zone yesterday, but Gilmore gives up his first TD of the season yesterday (assuming it was his mistake, which it most likely was), and he's not worth re-signing.

 

Amazing.

[nucci]

 

Shady and Glenn are laughing at you.

so is Tyrod

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Shady and Glenn are laughing at you.

 

 

so is Tyrod

 

And Wood and Incognito who have been extended since Whaley has been here.

 

And Clay.

[Alaska Darin]

AW was every bit the player here. He was one of the best CBs I ever saw and the very best tackler of any player that ever played on the Bills. He didn't get a lot of INTs but he was incredible against the run and the pass. A lot of people thought Clements was better because he would get a turnover now and then but he got burnt a lot and AW rarely got beat. He was exactly the player on the Vikes he was here, which was quietly great.

Agreed. His only real weakness was losing on jump balls in the red zone but AW was ridiculously consistent and a vicious tackler.

[YoloinOhio]

Bills have given up 3 passing TDs in 6 games.

[Blokestradamus]

It's truly incredible, isn't it?

 

We don't bat an eyelash when a journeyman like Brandon LaFell abuses a pro bowler like Malcolm Butler in the red zone yesterday, but Gilmore gives up his first TD of the season yesterday (assuming it was his mistake, which it most likely was), and he's not worth re-signing.

 

Amazing.

 

I have no problem in being critical of Gilmore. His tackling has gone from reckless to completely passive. Yesterday, I believe he was at fault for the blown coverage. He's absolutely had his bad moments in coverage, especially in Week 2.

 

That being said, he's still been our best corner this year. We just don't focus on Darby's errors because it'll ruin the idea that we'll be alright without Stephon.

[MAJBobby]

It's really hard to see how it could be anyone's fault but Gilmore. He was oblivious to the receiver that blew by him.

Ever think He had flat responsibility and Darby had deep 3rd. Ahhhhh see how that works. Helps to know the defense

[thebandit27]

 

I have no problem in being critical of Gilmore. His tackling has gone from reckless to completely passive. Yesterday, I believe he was at fault for the blown coverage. He's absolutely had his bad moments in coverage, especially in Week 2.

 

That being said, he's still been our best corner this year. We just don't focus on Darby's errors because it'll ruin the idea that we'll be alright without Stephon.

 

Agreed.

[MAJBobby]

Love all the excuses for Gilmore. Guess people quickly forgot about the Jets game and how Mr. Inconsistency, Ryan Fitzpatrick shredded the secondary in that game.

Darby was worse that game. Just saying

[MDH]

AW was every bit the player here. He was one of the best CBs I ever saw and the very best tackler of any player that ever played on the Bills. He didn't get a lot of INTs but he was incredible against the run and the pass. A lot of people thought Clements was better because he would get a turnover now and then but he got burnt a lot and AW rarely got beat. He was exactly the player on the Vikes he was here, which was quietly great.

 

I was just about to post a very similar response then I saw there was no need.

[MAJBobby]

 

Shady and Glenn are laughing at you.

So isnt Taylor

[DrDawkinstein]

WRT Gilmore...

 

It's a tough spot for the Bills and Whaley to be in, for sure.

 

As Bloke points out, he is our best CB. But as anyone with eyes can tell, his play hasn't warranted a top-5 contract.

 

I guess all we can really do is watch this play out. If we let him walk (a la Clements, Byrd, Searcy, Levitre), I'll understand. If we re-sign him and prevent having that hole in the roster to fill, I'll understand too.

[thebandit27]

Love all the excuses vitriol for Gilmore over one play. Guess people quickly forgot about the Jets game last 4 seasons .

 

Went ahead an edited that for ya

 

Yesterday's miscommunication was the first TD he allowed this season (again, assuming it was his responsibility). If you have to look at a game from 4 weeks back in order to try to justify a point about a single play, then does your point really hold water?

[papazoid]

Gilmore is good....but not franchise tag $14/mil/yr good.

[MDH]

Gilmore is good....but not franchise tag $14/mil/yr good.

 

It's a tough call because Rex relies on guys who can match up in man a lot of the time. Gilmore can do that. There are certainly better guys out there than him but can the Bills land one of them? If not, who are they getting opposite of Darby and how will effect the D overall to have a weaker secondary?

Edited October 17, 2016 by MDH

[DrDawkinstein]

 

It's a tough call because Rex relies on guys who can match up in man a lot of the time. Gilmore can do that. There are certainly better guys out there than him but can the Bills land one of them? If not, who are they getting opposite of Darby and how will effect the D overall to have a weaker secondary?

 

Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I'm coming around to the idea of the Bills paying/keeping him. He's an important piece, and we've seen too much of this CB carousel before.

 

The cap keeps going up. We already need to draft a Safety early next year. Having Gilmore, Darby, and NRC locked up for a while would be nice.

 

Speaking of which, I know he recently signed his extension, but someone get NRC a raise/bonus immediately!

[section122]

It's truly incredible, isn't it?

 

We don't bat an eyelash when a journeyman like Brandon LaFell abuses a pro bowler like Malcolm Butler in the red zone yesterday, but Gilmore gives up his first TD of the season yesterday (assuming it was his mistake, which it most likely was), and he's not worth re-signing.

 

Amazing.

Bandit I think you are attributing things here that aren't necessarily the point. See below and I'll add on.

 

WRT Gilmore...

 

It's a tough spot for the Bills and Whaley to be in, for sure.

 

As Bloke points out, he is our best CB. But as anyone with eyes can tell, his play hasn't warranted a top-5 contract.

 

I guess all we can really do is watch this play out. If we let him walk (a la Clements, Byrd, Searcy, Levitre), I'll understand. If we re-sign him and prevent having that hole in the roster to fill, I'll understand too.

This is where I am. Gilmore is a very good cb and getting beat is part of the job. However just from my eye balls, he isn't warranting top 5 money. It could be a case of trying to protect himself, it could be a case of the contract weighing on him, it could be many things. I think the argument against re-signing him is that money may be spent better elsewhere. I wouldn't mind Gilmore at 10 million per but I don't think that even comes close to what he gets. I don't feel really good about giving him 14 million per with what I have seen so far this year and I think that is more in the neighborhood of what he gets.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Looked like Gilmore was thinking low route, and Darby should've taken the the other receiver. Tough to tell. AW looked lost in open field, making me think all three guys f'ed it up w/ some royal miscommunication.

It was clearly Kyle Williams guy

Ever think He had flat responsibility and Darby had deep 3rd. Ahhhhh see how that works. Helps to know the defense

If you look at where they lined up from the goal post cam angle Darby was deeper and across the line from 82. Gilmore was across from the slot guy 17 and closer to the line.

 

How anyone 'knows" 82 was Gilmores guy is beyond me. Other than when Gilmore saw Darby come down to the flat he reacted first by chasing the deep guy.

Edited October 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood

[thebandit27]

Bandit I think you are attributing things here that aren't necessarily the point. See below and I'll add on.

 

 

I wasn't speaking to the point that it may be tough to re-sign him and that it may not happen; more responding to the narrative that he somehow is always allowing big plays as some have suggested.

[YoloinOhio]

@tydunne

#Bills CB Stephon Gilmore: The only time somebody can beat us is if we mess up. I dont think physically or mentally anybody can beat us."

[26CornerBlitz]

@TyDunne

Elsewhere, #Bills CB Stephon Gilmore provided the insight on Kap: "We wanted to make him beat us with his arm, and he couldn't do that."

[ROONDOGG55]

It definitely looks like some miscommunication between Darby and Gilmore. The rest of the team is in man coverage except for Darby, but maybe with trips right and crossing patterns they're supposed to swap guys to cover any gaps. Either way, it seems like this screw up was on both of our top cover corners. I'm just glad this did not cost us the game.

 

http://www.49ers.com/video/videos/Torrey-Smith-Scores-on-Deep-Pass-from-Kaepernick/8f04c5d0-621d-421c-ba6e-cc6545234816

[section122]

 

I wasn't speaking to the point that it may be tough to re-sign him and that it may not happen; more responding to the narrative that he somehow is always allowing big plays as some have suggested.

ahh I see. I was misreading.

 

I've been watching the games with my uncle over the last few weeks and Gilmore is his favorite whipping boy. I've tried explaining that you can't let the expectation of perfect cloud what is very good cb play but we are both in agreement that he isn't deserving of the monster contract that I think he will be getting.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Gilmore is great but far from being "elite." He's not a shutdown corner and not worth the money he thinks he's worth.

[Jerry Jabber]

 

Went ahead an edited that for ya

 

Yesterday's miscommunication was the first TD he allowed this season (again, assuming it was his responsibility). If you have to look at a game from 4 weeks back in order to try to justify a point about a single play, then does your point really hold water?

 

Gilmore is too inconsistent and is not worth the asking price (Top 5 CB). You can stop the fan-boy love for him.

[Blokestradamus]

Gilmore is great but far from being "elite." He's not a shutdown corner and not worth the money he thinks he's worth.

 

We need a thread starting on what exactly "shutdown" means. Everyone puts together a stat line that's allowable and I'll calculate the average.

[CardinalScotts]

OK, here's another game where this so-called "elite" cornerback got burned BADLY and the result was a touchdown this time. I mean, this is supposed to be one of the best corners in the league and the play was amatuer and rookie-like. Tell me again why he's worth $100MM?

im not a pay Gilmore guy but we don't know what coverage was called and who was at fault. There are so many options - what if the cross, or motions etc. Just to be fair

[re enlightener]

The forum will kill you for using anything remotely specific to make an obvious point--just know that I agree. I like Gilmore, and wish he could stay a Bill, but he will not be on the team moving forward. He's a good player that someone will likely pay great player money. He's the next Jairus Byrd Nate clements(although he won't get that much of a premium).

fixed

Edited October 17, 2016 by re enlightener

[thebandit27]

RE: the Torrey Smith play, based on the front-7 look and the pre-snap coverage look, I'm guessing that the called coverage was 46 Zorro (from Rex's playbook).

 

If I'm correct, then that means that the inside corner (Gilmore) has the Curl Flat assignment, and that it's Cover 3, with Darby and the 2 safeties taking the deep 1/3. See the upper-right frame below:

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

Just by the way Darby and Gilmore reacted I would say that Gilmore was confused. Darby didnt hesitate and went right for the receiver in the flat(darby could have been wrong and just reacted faster)

 

There were a few times during the game where Gilmore was looking around before the snap like he didn't know the coverage.

Exactly! Re-watch the play and notice how Gilmore gave an "OH SHIIT" head movement the moment he moved forward and the receiver blew by him.

 

Also, Aaron Williams should have had him tackled in the flat. That's what a SAFETY is for!!!

 

Lastly, for those saying this touchdown didn't matter, the 49ers took the lead with that play and the game was still an unknown outcome. I was furious with that play and it "could" have been a turning point. I'm glad it wasn't, but playing like that against the Patriots, Steelers, or Seahawks will not get it done!

[thebandit27]

 

Gilmore is too inconsistent and is not worth the asking price (Top 5 CB). You can stop the fan-boy love for him.

 

Nice job defending your point; you've clearly supported your argument well.

 

[CommonCents]

 

We need a thread starting on what exactly "shutdown" means. Everyone puts together a stat line that's allowable and I'll calculate the average.

Shutdown is a loose term. Most fans seem to agree that he isn't worth top 5 money. He is a solid corner who goes under the radar for chunks of games simply because he is doing his job. At times though it is impossible to ignore his sloppy attempts at a tackle or getting beat. He has never scored a touchdown. If your the best of the best why can't you take one to the house?

 

No one is a shutdown corner, but plenty of other corners can turn a game upside down ahead of Gilmore. He is nice but not 14m per year nice.

[Blokestradamus]

Shutdown is a loose term. Most fans seem to agree that he isn't worth top 5 money. He is a solid corner who goes under the radar for chunks of games simply because he is doing his job. At times though it is impossible to ignore his sloppy attempts at a tackle or getting beat. He has never scored a touchdown. If your the best of the best why can't you take one to the house?

 

No one is a shutdown corner, but plenty of other corners can turn a game upside down ahead of Gilmore. He is nice but not 14m per year nice.

 

It's just frustrating that most will only focus on the bad with him, but not with others. He's a damn good corner, it's just that most don't give a **** about the 300 routes a year he takes away.

 

In the interest of playing devil's advocate, I want to know where people plan on securing a replacement. Not "sign a free agent" or "draft someone", actual names for actual money or an actual round. In theory, not paying him is great but, unless you have a plan for replacing him, I don't want to hear it from anyone.

[thebandit27]

Exactly! Re-watch the play and notice how Gilmore gave an "OH SHIIT" head movement the moment he moved forward and the receiver blew by him.

 

Also, Aaron Williams should have had him tackled in the flat. That's what a SAFETY is for!!!

 

Lastly, for those saying this touchdown didn't matter, the 49ers took the lead with that play and the game was still an unknown outcome. I was furious with that play and it "could" have been a turning point. I'm glad it wasn't, but playing like that against the Patriots, Steelers, or Seahawks will not get it done!

 

See above--there are about 6 different play call sets that could've been in play here, and under each one there are 16 different coverage combinations. Let's not let appearances be deceiving.